PDA

View Full Version : Skin Download on Ded Server time and bandwidth usage. Also some other tests



Hunter82
02-11-2004, 09:18 AM
OK just played around with this for a few hours here's what I came up with so far.

Obviously your connections have a possiblity to increase/decrease times. I'm hoping to be able to narrow down some issues with net lag. Personally I feel some of the stutter etc caused online is more from Pilots/Regiment badges than skins as skins are not drawn until completely loaded and pilots/regiments seem to be drawn on first usage (full file) but I have not tested that fully yet.

Net bandwidth increase between connections will be added later for upload d/l averages per user.

Download times (Bandwidth impact to be added shortly)

14.4:

512 KB = 17 mins
1024 kb = 31 mins

28.8:

512 kb = 8 mins
1024 kb = 14 mins

56k:

512kb = 6 mins
1024kb = 11 mins

ISDN:

512kb = 3 mins
1024kb = 5 mins

Cable/DSL:

512kb = 50 sec
1024kb = 2mins

LAN:

512kb = 38 secs
1024kn = 1 min 25 secs

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

[This message was edited by Hunter82 on Wed February 11 2004 at 09:44 AM.]

Hunter82
02-11-2004, 09:18 AM
OK just played around with this for a few hours here's what I came up with so far.

Obviously your connections have a possiblity to increase/decrease times. I'm hoping to be able to narrow down some issues with net lag. Personally I feel some of the stutter etc caused online is more from Pilots/Regiment badges than skins as skins are not drawn until completely loaded and pilots/regiments seem to be drawn on first usage (full file) but I have not tested that fully yet.

Net bandwidth increase between connections will be added later for upload d/l averages per user.

Download times (Bandwidth impact to be added shortly)

14.4:

512 KB = 17 mins
1024 kb = 31 mins

28.8:

512 kb = 8 mins
1024 kb = 14 mins

56k:

512kb = 6 mins
1024kb = 11 mins

ISDN:

512kb = 3 mins
1024kb = 5 mins

Cable/DSL:

512kb = 50 sec
1024kb = 2mins

LAN:

512kb = 38 secs
1024kn = 1 min 25 secs

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

[This message was edited by Hunter82 on Wed February 11 2004 at 09:44 AM.]

LeadSpitter_
02-11-2004, 10:31 AM
sounds correct for dogfight servers, I also noticed in coops the players skins seem to loadup when the mis is loaded not in the game.

Thx for testing this hunter. I noticed in 352nd server which is basically the only place on hl who have them on and runs perfectly smooth, as soon as they switch a skin i see it immediatly. I know thier skins are in my netcache which maybe why they loadup so quick. But I also notice theres alot of doubles and triples of the same skin in my netcache

I was wondering why maddox needs to rename the skin to a #############.bmp making multiple dls of the same skin.

If it saved it as the orginal name to the netcache and does not overwrite a file with the same name but just would display the skin by having the same skinname from it being in thier netcache would be eliminating uneeded dls. With skins dls on it usually sends 3 different bmps, pilot skin, regiment and planeskin giving them all different filenames.

For instance if I have LS_109g6_HermanGraf.bmp in my paintschemes/skins/bf109g6 and other user has it in thier paintschemes/netcache with the same name why would it need to send it again?

A feature is needed with the way skin dls work that would show the skin on another persons pc who has the same skin name in thier netcache.

This way it would eliminate having to send the skin again to people who have it in thier netcache

Looking in my netcache I have many of the same pilotskins and aircraftskins

its very confusing to explain but let me know if you understand what im talking about

If you everplayed soldier of fortune 1 thats the way it worked, if someone had a skin it showed it without having to send the file, if you didnt have the skin it would send it when the game loaded up.

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Wed February 11 2004 at 09:42 AM.]

Hunter82
02-11-2004, 10:39 AM
Bandwidth results so far.

Non-Dependant on server settings for connection speed and these are server side results.

Results are listed below as
Speed
During Skin Transfer
After Skin Transfer

all are averages and in/out (download/upload).

LAN:

47.2 KB/13.2 kb
33.6 kb/ -1kb (less than 1 kb)

Cable/DSL:

46.7 kb/12.4 kb
33.5 kb/ -1kb

ISDN:

23.5kb/7kb
12.1/-1kb

56k:

13.4/4.7
11.2/-1k

any setting below 56k yielded roughly the same transfer rates and server was on HL during test.

No flight data or loads were recorded as this was for specifically just skin download results.

Be back later with more Dedicated server usage results...for those interested.

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Hunter82
02-11-2004, 10:43 AM
I also tested this. During skin download left the server with a 1/4 transfered skin. Rebooted and entered server again. The skin download resumed and completed. I'm not sure if this is user dependant or if the number is unique to the server based on skin name/file. I'll test later leaving a incomplete skin and having another user join with the same skin and see if it completes.

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

crazyivan1970
02-11-2004, 10:56 AM
Very cool research B Man! Much appriciated

In Full difficulty server i don`t see a reason to have it on at all for three reasons:

1)Affects bandwidth
2)Near impossible to see details of the skin, then why bother.
3) Texture "Cheaters" skins, made up as a texture of landscape, which makes planes near impossible to see against the ground.

On more relaxed server - servers with external views, sure, why not. Some skins are very very cool. Just my 02c.

Thanks again for research Hunter!

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

LeadSpitter_
02-11-2004, 11:00 AM
I like them in fr servers you can see them clearly when flying on a groups wing sticking together. You can read the noseart same with enemy planes I can see thier skins good and theres so many great 190 and 109 skins.

Also you can see them landing, or on the spawn pad next to you taxing to takeoff, it also helps for teamspeak if you and your buds are using specific markings like the 352nd blue nosed bastards or 361st eagles witht he yellow nose, burma banshees etc

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

Hunter82
02-11-2004, 11:24 AM
Working on right now memory usage per plane as a load issue and possible cure for spawn stutter. Even when static AC are placed some aircraft still cause a spawn stutter when first drawn IMO.

Most aircraft use 2mb on load if they are static or not. Each player gets that hit at the time of map placement. By loading static all info need for that is loaded into memory on map load but that takes time. The more aircraft allowed flyable the more memory usage per player and more chance of lag or stutter. Escpecially on systems with lower memory. Some aircraft (not many) use 3mb and these seem to be the ones that still cause the spawn stutter. I will list later all AC that require 3MB of memory vs 2mb and see how the load out works.

Recap:

Less flyable AC per side per map, lower demand on system via ram. Does not matter if Open CP or closed all use the same amounts of memory.
In contrast once you place a AC on the map you can place that same aircraft 50 times and not increase load times or memory demands. Each new placed AC requires 2-3 mb of ram.

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

crazyivan1970
02-11-2004, 11:29 AM
Great Stuff B man, keepem coming, i`m writing down http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

tttiger
02-11-2004, 01:03 PM
Wow, thanks Hunter! Good stuff!

Hope you eventually write a list of conclusions with some helpful dos and don'ts.

Aloha,

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

jung0l
02-11-2004, 01:47 PM
yeah, this is good stuff, and I'm not even a host http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

BaldieJr
02-11-2004, 02:37 PM
Whatever planes are the worst, they probably aren't post 1943 and probably aren't valid Kuban sets.

Since pre-loading the aircraft on my server, plane-selection stutter has become nill.

As for skin download, I had it on untill someone complained, but I really see no reason to turn it off. Nothing changed after turning it off on the server.

And by looking at the servers cache, some of you people need medication. I can't believe the amount of time someone used making a 'naked' pilot skin. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

crazyivan1970
02-11-2004, 02:40 PM
Found some cute chicks in the too Baldie http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

LeadSpitter_
02-11-2004, 02:54 PM
So if the server has 512k it will cause pauses for all if all plane sets are enabled?

I have 1 gig of ddr @ 400 and get the pauses in servers with all planesets like slammins 402cdn afj trollville or any other server with all ac for each side, my pagefile usuage is very low too 78m

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

BaldieJr
02-11-2004, 02:56 PM
I only found one that was 'cute'.

I found several that were disturbing.

If you ever want a laugh, just go through your cache.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

woofiedog
02-11-2004, 02:57 PM
Interesting read. Thank's for the research. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oscar_352nd
02-11-2004, 04:02 PM
Thanks for the effort and time Hunter! And thank's Leadsplitter for the comments.

I have often debated these settings as well as others I have on the 352nd FG Server. Some times these (skin downloads) are off and other times on. I don't want to run a "full real" server because alot of pilots just don't want to fly there - and they need some place to do it - they are part of the community too. I also run pretty lax on other settings too - like maxping. Yea, I could throttle everything down for better performance, but then I penalize a lot of players by doing this. On average, I get between 100 and 250 visitors on this server daily. Oh, and I do see and read the complaints in the log files - like "I don't like these plane sets", and "I don't like this map", as well as the compliments like "I like it that all the flyables are here - good!" and "I like this big map - I don't care how long it loads up". One thing I have found is that there is no pleasing everybody. I don't know if that's a measure of popularity or not. Anyway, I ramble.

I do wish for a way to turn of the Regiments in conjunction with the sklins though - something that has always been missing.

Look forward to the rest of your measurements.

352nd Virtual Fighter Group (http://352ndfg.com/Home/)
Oscar's Hanger (http://webpages.charter.net/rogerlavender/)
http://webpages.charter.net/rogerlavender/images/400sig.GIF

Hunter82
02-11-2004, 06:05 PM
Depends. Some servers can handle the load efficiently. Today I had a bunch of things going on in the server as tests so those that got a bit of lag...it's not the norm.

All planes is a bad idea period for smooth gameplay. Too much ram usage for most servers and players. Take all flyable AC and x's by 2mb then add any ground targets and map size. Can eat up ram very quickly. Page file isn't usually hit until AFTER ram. So the user gets the pause then swapped...by then it's already too late.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
So if the server has 512k it will cause pauses for all if all plane sets are enabled?

I have 1 gig of ddr @ 400 and get the pauses in servers with all planesets like slammins 402cdn afj trollville or any other server with all ac for each side, my pagefile usuage is very low too 78m

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
</BLOCKQUOTE>" TARGET=_blank>http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400"target="blank<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Hunter82
02-11-2004, 07:17 PM
You're now 1/2 way through the hosting 12 step process http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif......in about a week you will no longer care what anyone thinks and play what you want to play http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously. Play what you enjoy and others will come in....it's always slow going at first when any change is made.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oscar_352nd:
One thing I have found is that there is no pleasing everybody. I don't know if that's a measure of popularity or not. Anyway, I ramble.

I do wish for a way to turn of the Regiments in conjunction with the sklins though - something that has always been missing.

Look forward to the rest of your measurements.

http://352ndfg.com/Home/
http://webpages.charter.net/rogerlavender/
http://webpages.charter.net/rogerlavender/images/400sig.GIF <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

p1ngu666
02-11-2004, 07:23 PM
theres 80 flyables now isnt there? ish?
80x3meg is 240meg.. so option for client to preload planes (upto so much ram?) would be lovely for me.
ive got 1gig ram, could probs buy some more if needed
on the lag side, ive noticed alot of times lag collisions from head ons, u know, 3-4sec after uve passed in head on *splode* after this patch

http://www.pingu666.etglobalsolution.co.uk/sig/mysig3.jpg

p1ngu666
02-11-2004, 07:23 PM
ps thanks http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.etglobalsolution.co.uk/sig/mysig3.jpg

BaldieJr
02-11-2004, 07:26 PM
Doesn't matter how much ram the client has. Its the video ram that sticks it to ya.

Swap 128 accross the AGP port and you got a stutter. No room for flight-data when you're constantly caching to system memory.

If we knew how much video ram is need by each map, and assumed a minimum of 64mb of video ram, making extremely smooth missions should be easy.

Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda, I'm turning skin downloads back on cause I run limited planesets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Hunter82
02-11-2004, 07:54 PM
I generally add anywhere from 3-5 flyable per side...that's it. Skin D/L is on and no real issues. I'm just trying now to find the best server speed for my line and player load.

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

BaldieJr
02-11-2004, 08:05 PM
Try 3780. Thats 'average' 56k, accounting for networking overhead.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Hunter82
02-11-2004, 08:31 PM
OK servers back up with some minor changes. I should have the list of AC in the morning with MB totals. Probably will class them into groups like Yaks,IL's P39's etc since most that are higher include almost the entire AC range in that class.

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Oscar_352nd
02-11-2004, 09:06 PM
I'd be really interested in a listing of the AC and mem total (combined with what you have discovered to-date.

I'd also be interested in your server config settings - if I could put the squeeze on you for those. Maybe an off-line exchage of information???

352nd Virtual Fighter Group (http://352ndfg.com/Home/)
Oscar's Hanger (http://webpages.charter.net/rogerlavender/)

http://webpages.charter.net/rogerlavender/images/400sig.GIF

WUAF_Badsight
02-11-2004, 09:28 PM
OK THIS THREAD ROCKS

THANK YOU HUNTER82

sorry for the caps but this is a topic that im interested in but i dont have the computer understanding to test these things out with any accuracy

so once again .......


THANK YOU for the research Hunter

WUAF_Badsight
02-11-2004, 09:43 PM
OK QUESTION .... you have a plane set

.......... & you have stuff to blow up on the map

.......... & you have the map itself

these things require RAM for FB to run , your computer constructs an enviroment for you to fly in that requires processing power & RAM to maintain whilst your flying around

now the question is ..... are you saying that having multiple copies of the same object (say a PE-8 parked on the ground) is just the same load as having one of that object (one PE-8) on your computers ability to run FB smoothly ?



ALSO

you load one plane into a DF map , parked somewhere , & this alone reduces the spawning lag from selecting that plane & then hitting fly ?


ALSO

isnt the spawning lag dependant also on how powerfull the clients computer is ? & the clients internet speed ?

i mean ..... when a lot of action is taking place close to where im going to spawn .... i notic a longer delay when i hit FLY to when i actually spawn

does this delay being longer also contribute to spawning lag for everyone else ?

i mean .... if someone has a computer that has a hard time running FB , but has a ok ping , lag everyone else out because he is getting pauses or stutters due to having a low power computer ?


ty in advance for any consideration of these questions .....

BaldieJr
02-11-2004, 10:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
OK QUESTION .... you have a plane set

.......... & you have stuff to blow up on the map

.......... & you have the map itself

these things require RAM for FB to run , your computer constructs an enviroment for you to fly in that requires processing power & RAM to maintain whilst your flying around

now the question is ..... are you saying that having multiple copies of the same object (say a PE-8 parked on the ground) is just the same load as having one of that object (one PE-8) on your computers ability to run FB smoothly ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct. You only need 1 in memory. The application will refer to all others using some kind of pointer.

You have to keep in mind though: video ram will be used by each copy, depending on its distance from the camera (pilot view is the camera). System ram will only contain a pointer, unless you have more objects than your video ram allows, which means a portion of system ram must be used to swap textures back/forth.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
ALSO

you load one plane into a DF map , parked somewhere , & this alone reduces the spawning lag from selecting that plane & then hitting fly ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, it appears so. I am under the impression that the planes need to be near the action in order for this to work. I may be wrong, but since the game swaps low-res models for high-res models when you become closer to the object, it stands to reason that pre-loaded aircraft in some obscure portion of the map will not help. In practice, this seems to be the case, but I can't say that I've made a documented study of it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
ALSO

isnt the spawning lag dependant also on how powerfull the clients computer is ? & the clients internet speed ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Always! But good mission design can help decrease the effect on low-end machines.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
i mean ..... when a lot of action is taking place close to where im going to spawn .... i notic a longer delay when i hit FLY to when i actually spawn
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because you have to load up positional data for each model, as well as each model. The more action near a spawn point, the more stuff needs to be processed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
does this delay being longer also contribute to spawning lag for everyone else ?

i mean .... if someone has a computer that has a hard time running FB , but has a ok ping , lag everyone else out because he is getting pauses or stutters due to having a low power computer ?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In theory, no. If the server is underpowered, everyone suffers, no question. But FB should be doing some prediction, so everyones computer should be making assumptions about the spawner, and adjusting appropriately. Thats not to say there aren't going to be hiccups, as I've not gotten registered strikes on freshly spawned goodies due to that persons machine not being completely synced to the server.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
ty in advance for any consideration of these questions .....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

A.K.Davis
02-11-2004, 11:41 PM
I do not believe the location of the static aircraft matters. They load when you join (this is why servers with aircraft pre-loaded take longer to load).

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

Copperhead310th
02-12-2004, 03:37 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gifHunter i just don't see how the regimetals could cause this sort of problem if that's what you eluding too. regiment images in FB load very quickly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
& thier size is reativly small. FB only allows for the regements to be 68 x 68, or 128 x 128 in size. I typically make mine in 128 x 128 as 128 shows greater deatials & is still not a large image for the game to dl.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
310th FS & 380th BG website (http://www.members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron)

Hunter82
02-12-2004, 04:51 AM
I'm still testing it but it looks like because of the smaller file size it gets loading in one chunk or at least tries to. Which is why (in theory here remember I'm not done testing it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) you tend to get some warp on merge or flyby the first time with some people. Pilots skins are 66kb Regiments vary in detail and size. Also the stock regiments and roundels get cached in the cache folder (not net cache)so they become resident in ram also. These may cause issue also. Like I said I'm still testing this and regiments and pilots are alot harder to actually test d/l speed and effect due to their small file size.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gifHunter i just don't see how the regimetals could cause this sort of problem if that's what you eluding too. regiment images in FB load very quickly. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
& thier size is reativly small. FB only allows for the regements to be 68 x 68, or 128 x 128 in size. I typically make mine in 128 x 128 as 128 shows greater deatials & is still not a large image for the game to dl.

http://imageshack.us/files/copper%20sig%20with%20rank.jpg
_http://www.members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron
_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Hunter82
02-12-2004, 04:54 AM
That is correct. To reduce spawn stutter they do not need to be near view distance at all. It helps to preload them any way and camara distance really does not hold data for long as it is flushed after the view is no longer used/needed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by A.K.Davis:
I do not believe the location of the static aircraft matters. They load when you join (this is why servers with aircraft pre-loaded take longer to load).

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Hunter82
02-12-2004, 04:55 AM
I'll post them in this thread later ( around noon est)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oscar_352nd:
I'd also be interested in your server config settings - if I could put the squeeze on you for those. Maybe an off-line exchage of information???

http://352ndfg.com/Home/
http://webpages.charter.net/rogerlavender/

http://webpages.charter.net/rogerlavender/images/400sig.GIF
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Hunter82
02-12-2004, 11:14 AM
Here's server settings for Cheat and max lag detection. Max Ping is @ 600 ms now so anyone with a ping over 600 cannot join. Those in game that see a message that so and so has been idle too long and has been kicked....that's what that means....ping was higher than alotted.

serverDescription=Mudmovers
checkServerTimeSpeed=1
checkClientTimeSpeed=1
checkTimeSpeedDifferense=0.05
checkTimeSpeedInterval=3
socksHost=

[chat]
autoLogDetail=1

[MaxLag]
farMaxLagTime=2.0
nearMaxLagTime=1.0
cheaterWarningDelay=2.0
cheaterWarningNum=2

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

crazyivan1970
02-12-2004, 11:22 AM
Brutality in effect http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

VFS-22_SPaRX
02-12-2004, 11:44 AM
S~ Hunter. This is some very good data you are collecting. I am sure anyone that is running a server will appreciate the time you are putting into this effort.

I have done some testing of my own as well. I currently have 3 servers running on a P4 3.0ghz HT server with 1gig of ram. The server is on a 100mbit connection. At first there was a lot of spawn stutters. After about a month of playing with server settings and map designs, I have almost elimated it. I do not have skin downloads enabled though. I am in agreement with Crazyivan on this one. I just don't think they are really needed in an Online Dogfight server. This is just my opinion. Another reason I have them off, my server is restricted on how much bandwidth it can use in a givin month. I did some quick calculations and Transfering skins can add up very quickly. Especially with 3 servers running at one time.

Here is what i found to almost reduce the server lag and spawn stutters.

1. The netspeed of the server is very important for reducing Player lag. The setting you need to choose is dependant on the number of players that are on the server at one time. Another factor is if the players netspeed matches the servers netspeed. Sounds crazy, but there have been many players on my servers that have stated that after matching the servers netspeed, it greatly reduced their lag and improved their gameplay. This will only really hold true for broadband players though. A 56k player is already limited in their Bandwidth and there for changing this makes almost not improvements. The servers i am hosting are all 24-28 players right now. I have the netspeed set to 8000 and it seems to handle this load very well.

2. Preloading of planes was probably the biggest improvement I have seen. In the beginning I tried preloading every flyable aircraft for both sides. But as you can imagine, the map load times were horrible. Also, I run FB Daemon on all the servers, and with the long map loades, it would cause FBD to lock up or not find the current map and settings. So then I reduced the number of flyable aircraft for both sides to 20 each. And let me tell you what fun that was. Trying to pick 40 planes out of 80+ and also trying to pick the ones players want http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . After coming up with 20 planes for each side, I then start preloading them onto every map on the servers. I would place them in the corners of maps where people shouldn't find them. Away from the action of the missions, bases, and such. Preloading 40 aircraft is still a little bit of a chore for the server but not that bad in comparision to what i accomplishes. Load times a little on the long side, but again, i think its a fair tradeoff. Also, in the far chance someome might find this stash of planes all sitting together like ducks in a row, i made all planes in teh Army of NONE. So if someone does find them and destroys them, they will not effect the outcome of my scripted missions. As i stated before, this has made the biggest improvement on my server thus far.

As it is right now, the servers are having very little lag/stutters, if any at all. The Medium server on UBI is almost always filled with 20+ players. I have played on this server for many hours and I personally have seen almost no problems at all. There are a few people that complain about lag/stutters, but you have to attribute that to their connections and systems. If it was a server issues, i would expect at least 60-70% of the player base to be reporting problems. Right now i think maybe 5-10% of the players have problems.

As you are now, I put a lot of time into this. And these are the two things i have found that helped the most. I spent a good month or better playin with settings and maps to finally get to where it is now. If you wish to see how the servers run, you can check them out on UBI and HL. Ubi has two of the servers now, War Clouds Easy and War Clouds Medium. Typically, at any point in the day, one of these servers has ~20 players on it. War_Clouds it running on Hyperlobby right now. Since it hasn't been there very long, not many play on it.
The maps for all the servers are the same. All have 40 preloaded aircraft and anywhere from 60-100 ground objects loaded in them. Tanks, cars, AAA, sandbags, building, and just about anything else you can think of comprise the ground objects. When making the maps, the only objects that i found that really hit load times were static planes. You can load 200 other objects with minimal problems. You try and load 200 static planes, and it goes off the deep end. I now see from your findings this is due to the amount of memory that static planes consume.

Well, I hope this helps you somewhat on this project. I have really had the time to put all my findings into a organized layout. At some point I am hoping i can do this.

S~ and happy flying

SPaRX

Hunter82
02-13-2004, 04:58 AM
Good info. Hoping most hosts will chime in and relay info so we can all get benefit out of it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Hunter82
02-13-2004, 04:59 AM
I think I found Vera DiMilo (for you in living color fans) in there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Found some cute chicks in the too Baldie http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

pacettid
02-13-2004, 05:22 AM
One of the things I wanted to mention, based on our server/mission building experience is, do not choose any of the light AAA guns for defensive purposes. The multiple airbursts/smoke trails these guns generate are real fps killers.

We normally protect airfields with 85mm and 88mm guns. They get the job done and are fps friendly.

All the best, Don

Hunter82
02-13-2004, 05:23 AM
excellent info....keep em coming guys. I may sticky this later so we can get some info to help others

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pacettid:
One of the things I wanted to mention, based on our server/mission building experience is, do not choose any of the light AAA guns for defensive purposes. The multiple airbursts/smoke trails these guns generate are real fps killers.

We normally protect airfields with 85mm and 88mm guns. They get the job done and are fps friendly.

All the best, Don<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

BaldieJr
02-13-2004, 06:48 AM
Oleg said speed is the bandwidth per channel, not bandwidth server-wide. 10000 is too much for 56k.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Hunter82
02-13-2004, 08:13 AM
Channel socket udp is listed as 64 10000 max as default. I'm looking at changing the udp socket info on start up to 32/5000

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

BaldieJr
02-13-2004, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hunter82:
Channel socket udp is listed as 64 10000 max as default. I'm looking at changing the udp socket info on start up to 32/5000

==============================
http://www.mudmovers.com
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/
http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html
==============================<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why?

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

Hunter82
02-13-2004, 05:31 PM
cause I want to http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

==============================
Mudmovers (http://www.mudmovers.com)
ATI Catalyst Beta Tester
Catalyst Feedback (http://apps.ati.com/driverfeedback/)
Catalyst Driver Download (http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html)
==============================

Slammin_
02-13-2004, 06:17 PM
Plus, that's the only sure-fire way to know what setting it to those settings will do. Keep up the good work Dr. Hunter!

hobnail
02-13-2004, 06:26 PM
I noted the post from Leadspitter earlier re the naming convention of downloaded skins.

Here's the skinny.

IL2 generates a unique name for each skin in the netcache based on god knows what attribute (perhaps a random sampling of colour ranges from different points of the bmp?). In any event if that file is already in your netcache you won't need to download again OR (more importantly) if that file is copied to another's netcache they also do not need to download the skin afresh.

My suggestion is that whenever you download or publish a popular skin (Leadspitter, Hammered, CSThor, Cpt Farrell etc, me [check! I have two at IL2skin!!]) you should provide the netcache-named file and encourage people to place that in their cache and then rename a copy into the relevant skin folder.

That way they have no download penalty when they encounter another user of that skin online.

It's also a great trick for squads with a set skin-set.

Enjoy!

http://users.on.net/apoulos/webbanner.jpg (http://www.jg11.com)

Aviar
04-13-2004, 12:36 AM
Did Hunter ever post the file sizes of different static planes (like he said he would)?

Aviar

--------------------------
AMD XP 2600+
EPoX EP-8K9AI Mobo
1536Mb DDR PC 2100 RAM
ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
SoundBlaster Audigy 2
Klipsch 5.1 THX Certified Speakers
CH FighterStick USB
CH Pro Throttle USB
CH Pro Pedals USB
Thrustmaster Tacticalboard
--------------------------

WUAF_Badsight
04-13-2004, 12:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pacettid:

do not choose any of the light AAA guns for defensive purposes. The multiple airbursts/smoke trails these guns generate are real fps killers.

We normally protect airfields with 85mm and 88mm guns. They get the job done and are fps friendly.

Don<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


the AAA artillery cause slowdown of your game

each bullet is a aactually a load of infomation

controlling all these little packets of infomation requires processing & when you see a WhirbleWind firing , marvel at moder home PC's

the FLAK AAA is awesome for adding immersion & is very online freindly for gaming

my squad has a normandy B-17 run DF map with 700 Flak AAA on it

sometimes the bursts are so heavy , it feels like that is what is keeping the plane up

this map runs smooth online

TX-CUDA
06-01-2004, 11:53 AM
..&gt;BUMP!!

KGr.HH-Sunburst
06-01-2004, 01:25 PM
aah thanks hunter and others this info is much apreciated

http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas/
http://img31.photobucket.com/albums/v94/sunburst/sigp51-D9.jpg
''All your Mustangs are belong to us''

Dawg-of-death
06-01-2004, 03:48 PM
^ just a little

BadM-F(Mongrel-Fighter)...... AKA Dawg-of-death