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heywooood
04-18-2004, 08:34 PM
Just wondering how much of the Islands of Hawaii will be represented as far as mapping is concerned..

I looked but didn't see a previous thread about this.. I know everyone assumes they will be Completely represented but I thought I would ask..

also - does anyone have any arial photos from that period to post?..

And as far as campaigns go - I guess it would be in the Japanese folder only ?.. as only two P40 pilots managed to do any damage on The day of Infamy.

heywooood
04-18-2004, 08:34 PM
Just wondering how much of the Islands of Hawaii will be represented as far as mapping is concerned..

I looked but didn't see a previous thread about this.. I know everyone assumes they will be Completely represented but I thought I would ask..

also - does anyone have any arial photos from that period to post?..

And as far as campaigns go - I guess it would be in the Japanese folder only ?.. as only two P40 pilots managed to do any damage on The day of Infamy.

VW-IceFire
04-18-2004, 08:37 PM
Was it two or a few more than that?

I remember there was at least two that managed to fly from one airfield to another to scatter some Val's which were attacking it and I believe there was some other sporadic fights all over the island with fighters...most of them didn't go well or achieve very much.

Even so...it'd be nice to have it from both sides.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

heywooood
04-18-2004, 08:40 PM
IceFire-
I believe you are right - I saw a pic of some P36's that were being re-loaded at Ford that day..

I am hoping others will have more evidence of this?.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JTFM
04-18-2004, 10:53 PM
Also, SBDs arrived mid-attack from Enterprise, as well as B-17s from California.

ElAurens
04-18-2004, 10:56 PM
Several USAAF aircraft made it into the air that day, at east 3 were P36s.

One of the P36s got a Zero.

From the USAF Musuem website:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Dogfight Over Kaneohe
Opposition to the Japanese attack was scattered and disorganized. Army personnel shot at Japanese aircraft with everything from antiaircraft guns to pistols. One of the few pilots who managed to engage enemy aircraft was 2nd Lt. Phillip M. Rassmussen of the 46th Pursuit Squadron. He had just arisen when the attack began. Still wearing his pajamas, Rasmussen sped toward the flight line.

At the flight line, all of the aircraft were destroyed or burning except for a few P-36 Hawks. Rasmussen jumped in one and taxied to a revetment at the edge of the airfield, where he joined three other pilots also preparing undamaged P-36 fighters. The pilots took off under fire, and were directed by radio toward Kaneohe Bay where they engaged eleven Japanese fighters in battle.

After shooting down one Japanese aircraft, Rasmussen was attacked by two Japanese Mitsubishi A6M2 "Zero" fighters. Gunfire and 20-mm cannon shells shattered the canopy, destroyed the radio and severed the P-36's hydraulic lines and rudder cable. Rasmussen sought refuge in nearby cloud cover and began flying back toward Wheeler Field. He landed the P-36 without brakes, rudder or tailwheel, and with more than 500 bullet holes.

For his actions, Lt. Rasmussen received the Silver Star. He survived the war, shooting down a second Japanese aircraft in 1943. He retired from the Air Force in 1965.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/early_years/p36-1.jpg

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Hedge72
04-19-2004, 04:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
IceFire-
I believe you are right - I saw a pic of some P36's that were being re-loaded at Ford that day..

I am hoping others will have more evidence of this?.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's an article that fleshes out the Rassmussen flight a little more as well as a couple of other P-36 encounters during the raid:

Lost P-36 (http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/articles/lost_p-36/sterling1.asp)

The Naval History website has a great collection of pictures:

Pealr Harbor (http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/pearlhbr/pearlhbr.htm)

heywooood
04-19-2004, 08:19 AM
Thanks for posting the links Hedge -

And ElAurens for that nice P36 image..

I was surprised to see that there were SBD's from Enterprise involved. I had not seen that before JTFM.

So there is some US material for a campaign folder for Dec.7th 1941.
But I still wonder how much will be mapped and
how much will be included in the initial release of PF as far as Pearl Harbour is concerned.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hedge72
04-19-2004, 08:41 AM
Glad you enjoyed the links heywooood.

I'm pretty interested myself as to exactly what will be mapped for Pearl Harbor...I'm hoping it's all of Oahu http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I've always been facinated by Pearl Harbor. I had the opportunity to visit last August on my honeymoon...all I can say is "wow". Very sobering experience.
I'm really looking forward to and excited about the Pearl Harbor piece in PF, it's a key historical and strategic battle that has always been overlooked by simulations...kudos to Luthier and the PF team for it's inclusion.

Hedge

heywooood
04-19-2004, 09:01 AM
Yes Hedge - me too.

I suppose that since the Japanese performed their typical right hook attack (bringing their forces north and west of the intended target, then hooking around in a 180deg. turn to attack from the north) to throw off any preplanned defensive array. Chennault first catalogued this as the Japanese standard attack method in China by the way. So my point being that since the Japanese had to fly across Oahu, it should all be there on the map...and I'm damn jealous of you having actually been there yourself. It is still on my "to do" list. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Hedge72
04-19-2004, 10:19 AM
Highly recommended heywooood,

Make sure you have enough time! I spent an entire day there and it didn't feel like enough! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hedge

DuxCorvan
04-19-2004, 05:23 PM
Any plans to make P-36 flyable?

- Dux Corvan -
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Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

ElAurens
04-20-2004, 05:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Any plans to make P-36 flyable?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eventually...

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FltLt_HardBall
04-20-2004, 11:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Any plans to make P-36 flyable?


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In FB by the summer, IIRC

Hedge72
04-20-2004, 11:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
Any plans to make P-36 flyable?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...and here's a little progress shot while we wait:

P-36 pit (http://www.il2db.com/images/hawk75pit.jpg)

Hedge

Latico
04-20-2004, 06:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
Thanks for posting the links Hedge -

And ElAurens for that nice P36 image..

I was surprised to see that there were SBD's from Enterprise involved. I had not seen that before JTFM.

So there is some US material for a campaign folder for Dec.7th 1941.
But I still wonder how much will be mapped and
how much will be included in the initial release of PF as far as Pearl Harbour is concerned.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the SBDs were the standard advance scout patrols for carriers. CV6 was approx 230 miles due East of Oahu when it launch those plaes around 0600. One was carrying the CEAG (Commander Enterprise Air Group) to Ford Island. Those guys had no idea what layed instore for them that morning. can you imagine their surprise when they saw flak burst over Pearl, then getting jumped by Zekes, Then having to run the gauntlet of their own AA fire to land? Several of the VS planes as well as some of the land based planes were shot down by freindly fire, as AA gunners were shooting at anything that was airborne.

NOW......here's the kicker. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

CV6 had just ferried a squadron of Marines and their planes to Wake and was on it's return to Pearl. When Leaving Wake.....It's ETA for Pearl Harbor was 6 Dec. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif It was delayed by a day due to a storm front.........the same front the Japanese Fleet was able to conceal themselves in as they approached Oahu.