View Full Version : Mixed feelings... BUT STILL EXCITED

06-09-2013, 11:09 PM
I grew up on MM8 and MM9 and thoroughly enjoyed Dark Messiah even though it didn't feel like a true MM game, as soon as I received a newsletter with news of this game I almost fell off my chair!!!

This has been one of my all-time game series favorites and am overwhelmed in excitement at the concept of there being a new one, especially with the aim of keeping the original feel to the series!
I don't care what happens, I'm getting it as soon as I possibly can.

Now excuse the next part if this has been said by others, but I like to imagine that being a lifelong RPG fanatic and university games design student searching for opportunities to have an effect on the future of games, I'd like to throw in my two cents so to speak..

I haven't seen a great deal of information on this game yet and plan to look into it more as soon as I've had some good sleep so if I'm wrong or jumping to ill-advised conclusions please comment and give me a good nudge in the right direction I'd love to hear I'm wrong in my assumptions in my upcoming rant. Or if I'm right and you agree, feel free to join in :D

But really.. Grid-based movement a turn-based combat?
I don't understand, why was this chosen? I get that you want to make it nostalgic, but surely it would be better to achieve this through bringing back the essence of the game, it's visual styles, similar UI and skill-tree elements, even building models of creatures to resemble those from the original games as well as those of the accompanying Heroes game to link the two together,,

But grid and turn-based just sounds like a bad idea, they weren't so much design choices in old-school games as much as technological limitations, and by bringing them in it feels like you are limiting the game in the same way. Of course there are ways in which it can be included and make it work- I remember MM9 having a turn-based option, as well as the original NWN being based on the D&D ruleset meaning it was secretly turn-based, but they concealed that well enough to make the combat flow relatively well.
Looking back, I would assume MM8 must have been somewhat of a turn-based game in the way that you had to wait for your heroes to be able to attack again so I would like to hope this game is planed to be similar to that but made more flowy, to be honest as close to Dark Messiah as possible. It's an RPG, the point is to be immersive, if it doesn't flow well then the immersion will be broken.
The same goes for grid movement. Why is this? It becomes a constant reminder to the fact it's a game and it practically eliminates movement down to four directions. Even if a huge and beautiful game is crafted it won't feel like there's much freedom when you are tapping arrow keys and playing a long game of cross-continental hopscotch. I know maybe the much older MM games were like that but I'm sure if they could have, they would have also made them with free movement, and they would have felt the same as they were. But the Might and Magic I remember most fondly was running around freely, picking up a necromancer in a wasteland and riding a dragon over fields of nagas,,, I wish so much to play it again but haven't been able to find the time lately for many games..

I just think that to make something feel reminiscient of older games, nostalgic, but still enjoyable for both younger new audiences who are fresh to the series as well as veterans a game needs to induce almost a sense of deja vu. Making players feel like "wow I've been here before, I've been to this world, and when I see some of these things it gives me fond flashes of the past but it can't be true, this feels so natural and comfortable to play is it really from the same series? But of course, this skill and party system is undeniably the same, oh how I longed for another game which worked this way!"
And I worry that those grid and turn features, if too prominent will make it just feel like "hello, another retro remake. I've played you before, nice to see you again, thanks for the high-res stroll down memory lane, but ahh so rigid and clunky, I think I'll just play this on occasion when I'm in the mood." (which especially won't apply to younger generations who won't have the patience nor appreciation for such features.

Or am I jumping the gun, and will i be possible to, as in MM8 and MM9 if I remember correctly, chose whether you want real time or turn based combat?

so I guess to say a tl;dr, What sort of grid-based movement and turn-based combat will it be? barely noticeable, flowing well and highly immersive, or more like a direct nod to old-school like the Legend of Grimrock? That was a great game but mentally, it gets difficult to want to carry on after a while, controls like that feel too light and tedious in my opinion...

Excuse me for writing so much, I tend to babble. If anyone gets round to reading all this I hope I might be able to provoke some interesting thoughts or a good conversation, as for me- it is good night :)

Also I feel bad for writing so much about two things I read may be in the game which struck up alarm bells... Everything else about it (I don't know much yet but happily look forward to a nice morning of research tomorrow) is and probably will be things I love. Words cannot describe my excitement.

06-10-2013, 10:22 PM

Before somebody thinks you're trolling and writes some even more condescening words:
This is exactly what MMX apparently aims to d8o: take a step back, down CRPG history and memory lane, and recover what made RPGs (and M&M) give people such enjoyable memories twenty years ago and thus mutter and grumble at every instance of "flow", "spin-off", "real-time", "action" or (*shudder*) "reimagination". To take that, and iterate on it with today's possibilites, but without needing to follow that path mainstream games have taken from there, instead attempting another.
Game design is always about limitation, and as any art form, the awareness and the interplay with those limitations (given or artificial) is what makes individual games great beyond just being pleasant or fun.
To suggest that yesteryear's games are somehow inferior and merely palatable with a generous sprinkling of nostalgia is akin to belittling the classics of any art form for their lack of technology or incompatibility with current fashion. And, quite frankly, it makes me strongly wonder about the curriculum of your course of studies.