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VS-UK_SPaM
06-07-2004, 04:11 PM
Is there anyone else out there that finds flying a flight sim with a Joystick is a pain in the **** because most joysticks are shaped for the right hand?

Ive got a MS Procision 2 Pro, Which is shaped for a right handed player. And i get along with it fine. Untill i need to use the mouse, (which i use on the right hand side of my keyboard mainly due to comfortability, which is where my JS sits, unless its on the floor by my feet.)

What im trying to get at is, whats a good joystick to use for a left handed man?

And heres the layout ive got for my Keyboard, Mouse and JS

+=====+=========+=====+
Free | Keyboard|Mouse|
Space +=========+=====+
+=====+ I sit | JS |
Here +=====+

Thats a little diagram of what my desk setup is like. Where the mouse and JS are their virtually ontop of each other. I could just try and get used to using my Mouse with my left hand but then im gonna have to get used to it and that could take some time and then im gonna have to get used to playing my First Person Shooters with the mouse in my left hand and the Directional Keys on my right.

From the sounds of things it seems like im talking nonsense but i hope someone understands my ramblings. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

VS-UK_SPaM
06-07-2004, 04:11 PM
Is there anyone else out there that finds flying a flight sim with a Joystick is a pain in the **** because most joysticks are shaped for the right hand?

Ive got a MS Procision 2 Pro, Which is shaped for a right handed player. And i get along with it fine. Untill i need to use the mouse, (which i use on the right hand side of my keyboard mainly due to comfortability, which is where my JS sits, unless its on the floor by my feet.)

What im trying to get at is, whats a good joystick to use for a left handed man?

And heres the layout ive got for my Keyboard, Mouse and JS

+=====+=========+=====+
Free | Keyboard|Mouse|
Space +=========+=====+
+=====+ I sit | JS |
Here +=====+

Thats a little diagram of what my desk setup is like. Where the mouse and JS are their virtually ontop of each other. I could just try and get used to using my Mouse with my left hand but then im gonna have to get used to it and that could take some time and then im gonna have to get used to playing my First Person Shooters with the mouse in my left hand and the Directional Keys on my right.

From the sounds of things it seems like im talking nonsense but i hope someone understands my ramblings. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

VF-17_Jolly
06-07-2004, 04:15 PM
http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/cyborg_gold.htm
http://www.saitek.com/uk/images/product/pcp/cyborg_gold.jpg
Fully adjustable
S~

http://www.skyknights.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jolly.jpg

Prof.Wizard
06-07-2004, 04:17 PM
This world is not for lefties... DIE! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif
(j/k)

-----------------------------

Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
http://www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

crazyivan1970
06-07-2004, 04:18 PM
Hey man.
I am a lefty too and i use indetical stick design as yours...with one exception - it`s FFB2. I think handle of those sticks is pretty acceptable for lefties, with exception of throttle control... so to avoid that i bought X45 stick and using only throttle part of it...stick itself sits under the desk somewhere http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
On that throttle you can assign pretty much everything, i hardly use keyboard, except maybe for sending messages. Only one thing is a little uncomfrtable, you have to operate all those buttons with the pinky, but it`s something i got over within hours.

I did try Cyborg 3d sticks, but hated them, they break down alot and i don`t like the way it responds. So i settled for FFB2 + X45 Combo and pretty happy with it.

Cheers!

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

horseback
06-07-2004, 04:35 PM
Look for a Logitech Marble Mouse-it's the only Logitech product I'll ever recommend. The point is, a trackball is the best mouse controller for Il-2, and the Marble Mouse is a reasonably priced (under $20 US) trackball designed for easy use with either hand. I'm a righty, but I use my left hand to control my mouse in the game, and the Marble Mouse is ideal for me.

Can't help you with a stick; I've never seen a fighter with the throttle mounted on the right side of the cockpit and my CH Products Combatstick is definitely a righthanders only deal. I believe their Flightstick is ambidextrous, but it only offers 4 buttons or so, and no rudder axis.

cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

Tully__
06-07-2004, 04:46 PM
Saitek's Cyborg (see pic & link above) is fully configurable for either hand.

=================================================


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IL2 Forums Moderator
Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm)
Tully's X-45 profile (SST drivers) (http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/fb.zip)

Salut
Tully

VF-17_Jolly
06-07-2004, 04:54 PM
Or if you only fly P-38`s you could try this
http://www.chproducts.com/retail/products/usb/flight_simyoke_USB.jpg

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.skyknights.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/jolly.jpg

lbhskier37
06-07-2004, 05:07 PM
They dont switch the throttle in real planes for lefties, why would they need to make joysticks like that?

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/pics/Killasig6.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&whereauthorid=lbhkilla&comefrom=display&ts=1049772896)
Official "uber190n00b"

"Due to the unbelievable inadequacy of Oleg's .50s the Germans have a HUGE advantage.
All they do is dive from above and in one pass cripple your plane with three or four mk108 hits." Col_Tibbetts

SithSpeeder
06-07-2004, 05:23 PM
What lbhskier37 said. And I mean no disrespect, as I am an avid lefty who used the Cyborg 3d Gold (seen above) for 2 years and loved it. But eventually, I decided I wanted to go HOTAS...and their are no HOTAS stick setups for lefties. I complained, moaned, searched more on the internet, etc. etc. Further investigation lead me to some posts from actual fighter jocks in the USAF that said there are plenty of left handed pilots that fly F-16s and they do very well...in a rightie configuration.

So, I said to myself, "Self, give it a try...if it's good enough for the real world...WTHeck." It took 2 weeks to get comfortable, maybe 1 month until it became second nature (X-45).

This isn't tennis, baseball, or boxing where a southpaw look is going to cause your opponent to react differently and not be used to fighting against your lefty-ness. In this case, being a lefty is just a different (ok, better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) way of thinking. Your brain still controls both your hands so it won't make any difference.

YMMV.

* _54th_Speeder *

***
Build a bridge and _get over it_.
***

http://members.cox.net/~ijhutch/_images/400x200sig.jpg

plumps_
06-07-2004, 05:59 PM
<-- Uses Cyborg 3D Gold USB. The Saitek Evo should be suitable, too.

Now if only Oleg would allow us to invert the mouse buttons in FB like it can be done in Windows!

-----------------------------------
http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/stulogo-banner.jpg (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/)

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-07-2004, 06:03 PM
Ahhh, a subject of which I am quite familiar. I've started many a thread about this subject and even petitioned all the big makers for a "limited run" just for us southpaws to no avail. (Although I still have their ear to an extent)

Like you, I used the MSFFB2 for a long time, but wanted more. What I ended up doing is purchasing a CH FlightStick Pro (fully ambi btw), a pro throttle (which I turn upside down and reverse the axis so I can use it righty) and the CH Pro Pedals.

This setup is the best configuration I've personally found while still maintaining a high quality of controller. CH makes the best, most rugged controllers there are, IMO...period. This setup also allows for full configuration in the CH Control Manager software.

The FlightStick Pro doesn't have all the functionality of the FighterStick, but works extremely well for the typical prop-sim.

Give it a look. You won't be disappointed.

The typical rhetoric of "They don't make REAL planes for leftys, so get over it.." is ridiculous and obviously spoken from the right-handed POV. If it's so easy to change dominant hands, then I challenge ANY...yes ANY right-hander to use their current setup lefty for an entire week. When you think you've got it, give me a call and I'll take you to school. Why can I say this with such confidence? Because I'm left handed and have "adapted" for my entire life...you've only done it for a week.

The fact of the matter is this is NOT real life. This is virtual and, yes, a game. Should left handed golfers simply learn to play right handed? Should Randy Johnson have to throw right handed? Not the same you say? I say Bull****e! This argument is pointless and unless you have a good solution for a lefty, don't post.

Anyone who has been here for any length of time knows that I don't flame, I'm not a fan boy of anything and I don't kiss any butt (except for this certain Italian girl who happens to be my wife), But this attitude of simply saying "what's the big deal?" only shows ignorance and lack of understanding. To force conformity in this day and age is, to a large extent unnecessary. As a 40 year old father of five and a professional in the community, I fully understand the economics of profitibility and supply and demand...so don't go there either.

respectfully,

TB.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

NegativeGee
06-07-2004, 06:18 PM
Are there any other leftys like me who fly right handed? As long as I can can remember (15 or so years) thats how I've done it.

No jibe at you guys you write left and fly left, but I was just wondering http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

heywooood
06-07-2004, 06:34 PM
Are we still talkin' about joysticks? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/3tbm_avenger.jpg
Goin'fishin'

arcadeace
06-07-2004, 06:47 PM
This has been a hard one for me to get over. I don't think I've seen Thunderbolt get so personal about the subject but I completely agree with him. Who cares about real fighter pilots, this is a fun time hobby and I've never understood why it would be so difficult (costly) for manufacturers to mirror the mold.

Having said this, I've just recently found this setup at a local thrift shop, for a very good price. So now I have a bit more incentive. I actually got another identical joystick and am in the process of 'converting' it for my left hand, just in case.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/222_1086599428_100_0002.jpg

NegativeGee
06-07-2004, 06:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
Are we still talkin' about joysticks? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bah,I should have seen that one coming http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Computer game controllers, not other *pastimes* involving hands heywooood http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-07-2004, 07:11 PM
I'm not sorry for the previous rant...but I'm better now. I was certainly hoping Arcadeace would show up. We both have "towed the line" for some time now on behalf of the 20%'ers and always in a respectful understanding way. That won't change. In the past I've contacted CH, Thrustmaster (Guillemot), Saitek and Logitech. I've even had dialogue with Andy Mahood (resident sim columnist for a certain PCGamer magazine) and have been assured by a certain company that if (yes, it's a big if) they ever decide to produce a high-end controller, HOTAS for the left-handed community , then I will be a beta tester.

Also as an FYI, my lovely wife bought me a full CH HOTAS for my last birthday because I told her I wanted to try to convert. Bless her heart, but after the purchase and a few hours of looking at the controllers, I decided I didn't want to convert. I wanted to have fun instead. Can I convert? You betcha. Will I? no.

My current setup allows for my left-handedness AND fun in this sim.

I've described it before, but my left-handedness is not completely by choice. I've had it forced upon me and I'm not the least bit bitter about it. Any bitterness is fully the result of ignorance and lack of desire to shed that ignorance on the part of people who take "accessibility" issues with a simple shrug of the shoulders and say "get over it".

If anyone should desire to discuss my particular setup and adjustments for southpaws, I'll be more than happy to help any way I can.

TB



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

BaldieJr
06-07-2004, 07:26 PM
The stick I'm prototyping is usable by either hand. The throttle will be the same way.

Too bad it wont be cheap http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
My Specs (read 'em and weep):
* Automatically grinds whole beans before brewing
* Fully programmable 24 hours in advance
* Brew Pause feature lets you enjoy a cup before brewing has finished
* Automatically shuts off when brewing is complete
* Grind-off feature for brewing ground coffee
* 1-4 cup feature to accommodate coffee for one
* 10-cup double-wall insulated thermal carafe to keep your coffee hot long after brewing
* Gold tone commercial-style permanent filter eliminates the need to buy coffee filters
* Charcoal water filter removes impurities from the water
* Separate grinder chamber and filter area allow for easy cleanup
* Limited 3-year warranty
</pre>

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-07-2004, 07:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
Too bad it wont be cheap http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheap be dammed! (misspelled deliberately to maintain forum friendliness)

I asked the above-mentioned companies to make one just for me and I would pay them mucho dinero. I guess they thought I was joking.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

horseback
06-07-2004, 08:29 PM
Point taken, T-Bolt. Being the first "righty" in four generations on my Dad's side, you do have my sympathy...my advice about the Marble Mouse is still valid, though.

cheers

horseback

PS -When I was in San Francisco a few years ago, I found a shop that catered exclusively to lefties- $200 later, I was all set for the next couple of years' birthdays, Father's Days and Christmases...solidifying my position as the favored progeny (take that, Daddy's Little Girl!).

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

noshens
06-07-2004, 08:30 PM
My brother is lefty but he can play games and use joystick with right hand. I tried doing the same with my left hand and in 3 hours I was pretty good in CS with lefthand.

Have you lefty guys every tried to use right hand? Not that you have to but it does solve lots of problems.

HunterZer0
06-07-2004, 08:44 PM
Yep, I'm a leftie pilot, but I've trained myself to fly right-handed. I do have an old Sidewinder 3D Pro that wasn't too bad to use left-handed, just tricky to get to the throttle. I can now fly either way around, so it doesn't worry me.

- HZ

crazyivan1970
06-07-2004, 08:48 PM
I am suprized Lix didn`t show up yet http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Franzen
06-07-2004, 09:07 PM
Well, I've seen this subject threaded before. I am right handed and use the 3d gold and X45 throttle. The 3D is fully ambidextrous(sorry about the spelling). The X45 throttle is in no way usable for the right hand. My suggestion would be 3D gold(twisty sticks suck for aim)and a set of pedals. If you really want a throttle you might try building your own. It's not too difficult, just takes time. You could use the X45 and resign the handle. In the game you can reverse it's characteristics. You'll probably end up loosing a few buttons.
Then you could always use a pedal set and 2 3D golds and just forget the stick movement of the right hand(consider it ergonomics http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif). Just thing of all the possible functions you'd have and at a low cost(1 throttle, 1 trim on slider,2 triggers,2 hats,18 buttons. Damn, I wish I had thought about this before buying the X45 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Very easy to set up also. And, after 3 years the 3D has never given me any trouble.
My only other suggestion would be to learn how to fly right handed but I'm guessing you don't want to and I don't blame you one bit.

Fritz Franzen

FatBoyHK
06-07-2004, 09:08 PM
I have this question in my mind for age, finally got a chance to ask this:

For all left-handers, do you use your left hand to handle a knife and your right hand to handle a fork?

I think Hotas just work the same as fork and knife.....something you use to cut down your food/prey http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RedDeth
06-07-2004, 09:09 PM
im lefthanded and flown with joystick in right hand online for six years now. i never even thought about it till this post!.

i could never fly with joystick in my lefthand. its too wierd.

its the same deal as cars and having to shift gears with the right hand. or how about motorcycles ...same deal.

when i need to use the mouse i take my right hand off the joystick and fiddle with the mouse. sometimes i steady the stick with my left but thats rare.

i dont feel using a joystick is similar to playing golf or left handed mitts for baseball. which i did use a lefty mitt.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://www.alloutwar.com/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1083458407_knightsmove-taylor.jpg

Franzen
06-07-2004, 09:18 PM
It's a good point Red deth, but I think he's talking about personal preference rather than ability. I think if I were left handed I'd want to play that way. Actually I'd be happiest to be able to play both left and right handed. I'd give my right arm to be ambidexterous. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Fritz Franzen

badatit
06-07-2004, 09:45 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by NegativeGee:
Are there any other leftys like me who fly right handed? As long as I can can remember (15 or so years) thats how I've done it.

No jibe at you guys you write left and fly left, but I was just wondering http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Same here. I'm a lefty, until I sit down behind my controls. Been flyin righthanded for close to twelve years now. I highly recomend it.

XyZspineZyX
06-08-2004, 12:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
Are there any other leftys like me who fly right handed? As long as I can can remember (15 or so years) thats how I've done it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm one. I'm a lefty when it comes to eating, writing, batting, dribbling and throwing, (hmmm...sounds like I might have a problem http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif but I assure you I don't http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif), but have learned to play bass and fly using my right hand.

I do sympathize with other left-handers though. Not all of us can adapt so easily. I think that manufacturers should think about the left-handed consumer. There are quite a few of us.
That being said....Only left handed people are in their right minds.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9334/Image6.jpg

lazio5
06-08-2004, 01:00 AM
I use my left to fly and use the mouse to look around. I find this comfortable and natural.

I like it so much, i have often wondered if a switch to Track-IR would be a good move.

http://freespace.virgin.net/s.winy/yellowavi.gif

Franzen
06-08-2004, 02:45 AM
Didn't Homer Simpson's buddily-wuddily have a left-handed goods shop? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Although twice the price of right handed pencils I have left handed ones for sale. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Fritz Franzen

dazza9806482
06-08-2004, 02:53 AM
Yay is right (i mean left http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

im left handed, however i play with my right

not that im an ambidextrous prodidgy, but i dont really have any problems with joysticks for rightys.

maybe my long years of console abuse sorted me out!

Maple_Tiger
06-08-2004, 04:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
I have this question in my mind for age, finally got a chance to ask this:

For all left-handers, do you use your left hand to handle a knife and your right hand to handle a fork?

I think Hotas just work the same as fork and knife.....something you use to cut down your food/prey http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Im a lefy and proud of it.


The fork is alwasy in my left hand(I miss with the right hand sometimes) and the knife is in the right hand.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

Maple_Tiger
06-08-2004, 04:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RedDeth:
im lefthanded and flown with joystick in right hand online for six years now. i never even thought about it till this post!.

i could never fly with joystick in my lefthand. its too wierd.

its the same deal as cars and having to shift gears with the right hand. or how about motorcycles ...same deal.

when i need to use the mouse i take my right hand off the joystick and fiddle with the mouse. sometimes i steady the stick with my left but thats rare.

i dont feel using a joystick is similar to playing golf or left handed mitts for baseball. which i did use a lefty mitt.

http://www.fighterjocks.net home of 12 time Champions AFJ http://www.alloutwar.com/IL2FS/round9.cfm http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/120_1083458407_knightsmove-taylor.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Same here. When i first bought my Sidwinder, i was hoping it would be for both left and right handed people, boy was I wronge.

I normaly steer my car left handed. Naturaly, i wanted to steer the plane left handed also.

Lets just say that i had little choice in the matter; unless i bought another stick lol.

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

Hawgdog
06-08-2004, 08:25 AM
I'm honored to be in such good company of Left-handed fliers

Wow, never knew all yuse gize was..ah...leftie.

The best stick I've used yet was the OLD Saitek cyborg gold 3D- wished like hell I had the sense to buy ten when they were close out at 14.99!
I've since used other Saitek products Rumble stick, the 'new' cyborg that replaced the 3D, what a piece of garbage. Drivers suck, the website argued endlessly about its MY issue, and all the other posters kept saying its drivers its drivers...oh well
I'd like to try that stick made my CH, I dig the pro-pedals I've got. Its a bit pricey...but ya know after spending nearly that much on sticks sitting in the basement, nearly new in the box...well, you get the pic

I think we need a LH squad! LH-HawgDog, just use LH and your forum name!

http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/HawgDog/sharkdog.gif
When you get to Hell, tell 'em HawgDog sent you!

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-08-2004, 09:27 AM
Fork stays in the left, knife in the right. So, instead of changing hands to be like a right hander, I'm more efficient!

It's also a benefit when I go fishing. Living in Florida, I'm blessed with great fishing opportunities and every serious Bass fisherman uses baitcasting gear. I simply don't need to change hands to cast and reel.

I CAN fly right handed, but my point is, I shouldn't have to. If I had applied for F-16 jockey I would have had no choice, but I'm in my living room flying a computer.

I had an academic scholarship and a Congressional appointment to the Air Force Academy in 1980. I ended up not going as I was in an accident and had my right arm severed. Before that, I played baseball for 8 years (even at the college level) and was an accomplished switch-hitter.

I know how to adapt.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

LeadSpitter_
06-08-2004, 10:58 AM
why was my post removed from here about the joystick with x and y trims which work on non trimed aircraft?

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-08-2004, 11:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
why was my post removed from here about the joystick with x and y trims which work on non trimed aircraft?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Hmmm...good question. I didn't see the post, but that's exactly what I do. My FlightStick Pro has X and Y trim wheels that I use more effectively than the tedious in-game trim adjustments. I use the in-game adjustments on my throttle to fine tune only.



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

VS-UK_SPaM
06-08-2004, 12:37 PM
Right...Left even, thanks for all of your posts. I didnt think it would get this many. I was kinda drunk when i posted it but still it was just a question i had to get answered for my own statifaction.

I must admit thinking about it now i do seem to fly quite well with my right hand. I never really realised it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/1072.gif Im gonna try flying with my Joystick for about another two weeks and see how it turns out. If i still have trouble with it im gonna goto PC World and try out some Joysticks they have there and see which one feels comfortable for my lefthandiness.

Thinking about it again i did just use my right hand on the mouse to open AOL, etc. (dont worry this isnt the PC with iL2 on coz AOL is **** and ive got a better ISP at my dads.) So i must be more capable than i think.

Anyways, thanks for the replys and ill see how it goes.

Hope to 'attempt' to shoot you all ingame. Not killed someone yet.

p1ngu666
06-08-2004, 01:00 PM
i use a saitek gold that isnt gold. they need to go back to that design, add more buttons, make the throttle 2 (1 each side) and uve got a great stick
i agree that recent saitek efforts have been ****.
oh im a lefty, but i use righthand on mouse.
its even a boomslang so it dont matter which hand i use

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Huxley_S
06-08-2004, 01:43 PM
I use this Saitek rumble force joystick. It has throttle controls on both sides of the stick. Good for lefties as well as righties.

http://www.saitek.com/uk/images/product/pcp/cyborg-rumble.jpg

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_huxli.jpg (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap)

FB Music and Campaigns @
http://www.onemorewild.org/huxley

Flightvector
06-08-2004, 01:44 PM
How about putting some of you righties in an Airbus A320 captain's seat...no choice but fly the sidestick with your left hand http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif Come to think of it, most side-by-side cockpits require the pilot in command to fly with his left hand primarily since the throttles are at right.

Anyway, I am on a Saitek Cyborg Evo setup, works well for me, as for throttles, look into the new CH throttle quadrant. I know only HOTAS throttles seem right, but this is actually OK for WWII, since it's got prop and mixture controls too.
http://www.simw.com/simware_images/pictures/large/chthrquadrant_2.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze22ggz/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/fvsig2.jpg

[This message was edited by Flightvector on Tue June 08 2004 at 12:54 PM.]

Huxley_S
06-08-2004, 02:00 PM
You can even use it in the garden http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.simw.com/simware_images/pictures/large/chthrquadrant_2.jpg

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_huxli.jpg (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap)

FB Music and Campaigns @
http://www.onemorewild.org/huxley

Maple_Tiger
06-08-2004, 02:13 PM
Omg Huxley, would you stop?

Lmao, I just spit coffie all over my keyboard. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Capt. 361stMapleTiger.
http://img52.photobucket.com/albums/v158/Maple_Tiger/FBAA2.gif
Proud member of the FBAA and Nutty Philosohpy Club.

DeerHunterUK
06-09-2004, 05:09 AM
That CH throttle quadrant looks great, but at 150 it's out of my reach I'm afraid. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
http://www.rcsimulations.com/chthrottlenew.htm

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

oeqvist
06-09-2004, 09:34 AM
Yes we have tried. Not everyone can do it just like not everyone can learn using lenses instead of glasses http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you start early training than you will have less of a problem. It´s like golf for some stupid reason all junior golfers learn to play with the club to the right wether they feel more comfortable with that or not. For juniors that will be fine they have easier to adopt.

But try playing golf for yourself. Everybody who play golfs knows what kind of precision you have to have to be able to succeed. Most have one side that is a lot more comfortable to play from than the other. If I where trying to learn playing golf on the other direction I don´t think if I ever would get the green card to be honest.

Joysticks is a bit different because you don´t need the same precision as in golf but the same do stands for most lefties. You will never be as precise with your movements steering with the hand you don´t like to use how much you ever train with it. But I am sure most can train their precision to be good enough for it not making a real big difference really. But that is just because you don´t need that kind of precision when flying really.

Me I am an extremely left handed and left footed but I use my right hand for the mouse. I don´t remember if it was because all people use their right hand for the mouse or because I wanted to be able to use the keyboard efficiently at the same time. And though I have used my right hand for like 10 years now 5 minutes using it with my left hand and my precision is just as good as for my right hand!

jeroen_R90S
06-09-2004, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by NegativeGee:
Are there any other leftys like me who fly right handed? As long as I can can remember (15 or so years) thats how I've done it.

No jibe at you guys you write left and fly left, but I was just wondering http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I do... using old gameport MS Sidewinder 3D. Coudln't get used to flying with my right hand, still I mouse and play FPS with my trusty left hand...

What really annoys my is that some sauce/soup spoons (don't know the exact English word for it, sorry) have a slight bent end for easy pouring... BUT IT'S ALWAYS ON THE WRONG SIDE! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Jeroen

FirewolfX
06-09-2004, 11:08 AM
I'm as left handed as they come and there is no way I could fly using my left hand...too unnatural! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Intel P4 2.4B Mhz
1 GB 2700 DDR Memory
ATI 9800 Pro 128 MB
SB Audigy
X-45 Hotas

GAU-8
06-09-2004, 12:39 PM
im left handed, or still mostly.

but i adapted.

have you noticed stand up arcade sticks, and buttons? the stick is on left side.. buttons on right.

get involved enuff... you wont realise what hand is doing what.. it comes naturally.

adaption is a way of life.

Snuffy_Hadden
06-09-2004, 01:27 PM
In a world of right handed dominance, I as a natural born lefty have had to contend with the issues forced on me from that society.

Sitting down now and thinking about it, there are only a few things that I do right handed.

1. Fly sims using joystick, and mouse
2. Shoot rifles
3. I use my knife in my left hand and fork in my right until I have my food all cut then I use my fork in my left hand. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif
4. And only because of the dominance of this world in forcing right handedness, since that is the side of the stall the toilet paper is usually on ...I wipe with my right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

:salute:

oeqvist
06-09-2004, 01:40 PM
Shooting rifles and even golf is more about what eye you aim with. There is dominant eyes too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SithSpeeder
06-09-2004, 02:59 PM
TB--

The original poster asked if there was a good joystick for a left handed man. I responded to that, saying the Saitek Cyborg 3d Gold was my lefty stick of choice for 2 years. So I thought it worthy to post that as a solution. But I also offered a HOTAS solution...try it right. We can argue until we're blue in the face about what exists in the real world for lefties and righties and what _should_ exist for both (sheesh, I _agree_ with you that a lefty HOTAS would have a good market).

Although I have been ignorant many times before and I'm sure will continue to be in the future, this is not one topic that I'm ignorant on or have "lack of understanding" about. Perhaps I did make an assumption that the original poster was physically able to fly either hand (he didn't say otherwise) and it stinks that you are not (which _was_ something I was ignorant about). There is certainly a difference between having the ability and not having the accessibility. I NEVER said to you "get over it"...my tag line on that post more reflected my struggle with not finding a lefty HOTAS setup (this was a long term effort), and finally trying it right handed. (and it worked...similarly to how the post starter gave it a try and found he could do it). So please, do not direct your bitterness at me.

All that being said, what would you be willing to pay for a left handed setup? (I'm talking real dollars here). Fabrication costs to have one custom made may NOT be as much as you might think, especially if you find someone in our little community who has the talent and the inclination. One of the guys in my squad is particularly gifted with metal working. What if a CH Pro or a Saitek X-45 handles could be mirrored? Then, all the buttons and sliders would nearly all be transferrable into the new handles. And if it works and takes off, this could become a true industry! Which is what we both want http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And, like you, "Fork stays in the left, knife in the right."

* _54th_Speeder *

***
Trinity: Neo... nobody has ever done this before.
Neo: I know. That's why it's going to work.
***

http://members.cox.net/~ijhutch/_images/400x200sig.jpg

huggy87
06-09-2004, 04:31 PM
Hey...

What are all of you wanking about. There are places on the internet where being left handed is a very good thing. Do you know how hard it is for a righty to work the mouse with his left hand!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Resident_Jock
06-09-2004, 05:20 PM
I'm a leftie and I've always flown with my right hand on the stick. Is it really that hard for you people to adjust to? It seems natural. Just because you write with a hand doesn't mean that hand has to do anything else.

Also, Huggy is absolutely correct http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://thecasualty.homestead.com/files/resident_siggy.jpg

VOL_Hans
06-10-2004, 01:03 AM
I've never heard of anybody flying with thier left hand before...

I write left handed, but, thats about it. Guess i've been adapted to the right-handed world.

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

Snuffy_Hadden
06-10-2004, 06:24 AM
By The Way ... thought I'd add, It's a medically verified and accepted fact that left handed people are more talented and gifted than right handed people.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

VOL_Hans
06-11-2004, 12:38 AM
Funny...i've got no artistic talent whatsoever...that reprt is flawed! lmao

http://www.altitude.us/missions/The%20Volunteers/hanssig.jpg

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-11-2004, 06:37 AM
SithSpeeder,

Let me start by saying I bear NO bitterness towards you. Also, as I stated in one of my previous posts, I adapt quite well and likely could fly righty. I just don't want to. Even with my...er...limitations, I do quite well in most aspects of my life and still manage to keep a 5 handicap as well as play on numerous softball teams/leagues.

That being said, I am just as guilty as I proclaim others of being in regards to ignorance or understanding. (I still think a day is wasted when I don't learn something http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif )

In regards to the "fabrication", I can't really say there is a price limit. Obviously I would rather not pay $2000 for a controller. On the other hand, I would seriously consider paying double what retail would be for a high-quality left handed controller (and that's still negotiable depending on the quality). So if someone wanted to fabricate a left-handed JS (and possibly a throttle also) mirroring a CH setup, kept the quality high and didn't want my next born child I would certainly be interested.

TB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

oeqvist
06-11-2004, 07:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snuffy_Hadden:
By The Way ... thought I'd add, It's a medically verified and accepted fact that left handed people are more talented and gifted than right handed people.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That medical study was based on me. To bad they tested with a prime specimen of mankind noone else can match http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-11-2004, 07:48 AM
Thanks for warping the bell curve in our favor O! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

grifter2u
06-11-2004, 07:49 AM
lets not get to distracted by all these right handers posting that the world should spin in their direction.

i have allways been left handed and find it very counter intuitive to control a joystick with anything else than my left hand, my shooting aim is way more accurate that way. eh why should i change to suite some lazy hardware manufacturer whom cant be bothered to make a left handed model ? btw i shoot rifles like a right hander and am very comfortable with that (bolt action rifles are made for right hand use, and the direction of case ejection in other rifles makes them unsafe to use in a "left shouldered" position)

for lefties HOTAS there are some solutions...

years ago i used an early analogue gameport saitek cyborg, and purchased a suncom split throttle. that combo worked well, but the early cyborgs had bad pots and these became to noisy after a while. the suncom throttle was very comfortable for right hand use, but had limited buttons and was hard to program.

so next solution,..

stick: cyborg 3d gold usb, a great stick (i like the twisty axis for rudder), and is very precise in control. it had lots of action and has given no problems at all even after many long flying sessions in the last years(?3)

throttle: heheh wait for it, its a .....x45 throttle that i modified in 5 min work (i figured out what i planned to do with it before i bought it). i basically removed the 5 screws that hold the throttle handle to its "lever", turned the handle of the throttle upside down by rotating it 180 degrees(the attachement molding is oval and fits perfectly upside down, even the screws still fit), and now the rocker switch is facing upwards! (the thin wires inside that section have enough play on them to allow this without stressing them).
the molding of the throttle is now correct for the shape of your right hand, and ALL the rotary dials and buttons are within easy reach of your fingers.(not exactly in the same place as they were for somebody in their left hand maybe, but it works well for me). one minor thing is that max/min power are now reversed but you can set that up within il2 and fs2004 so it works correctly.

the x45 hotas is a relatively low priced unit here, it was cheaper for me to get a throttle that way than to buy for ex the CH usb model (that one has less buttons, is made of cheapo plastic, and was going to be harder to modify anyway).

btw that new CH throttle quadrant with dual throttle is not a viable option in il2, since seperate engine control is impossible via a dual lever. and mixture settings can NOT currently be modeled to a lever afaik. it dont look to ergonomic either for use in a ww2 fighter, and their are better units made by companies like Elite.

finally,

lefties unite ! put your money where your interrests are. support companies like saitek whom make an effort to make joysticks that work for us. we are roughly 10% of the population, and there is no need for us to fit into the "bizness plan" of companies that dont care about us !

Mc_Roth
06-11-2004, 09:37 AM
I am left haded too but i had to adapt to normal (right handed set) when i acquired a CH FX force pro pedal pro throttle.
Today i have a cougar hotas.

It may take some time but in the end it make no diference. I like hard springs...it help me control the stick more accuratly.
Take the hotas you want and.. fly fly fly fly..

Franzen
06-11-2004, 10:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snuffy_Hadden:
By The Way ... thought I'd add, It's a medically verified and accepted fact that left handed people are more talented and gifted than right handed people.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was the test administered by a lefty? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

I tried to fly with my left hand, right hand, then both. I fell like rock http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif

Fritz Franzen

x6BL_Brando
06-11-2004, 02:59 PM
I don't have a lot of choice since I lost my right arm in a road accident some 10 years ago - I've always had to adapt joysticks to work with my left hand since I started this excellent hobby.

I have to hand it to Saitek for being the only company to cater for southpaws - it's just a pity that they're prone to spiking, fairly short-lived, don't have enough buttons and have that big spring thing! I did a good conversion on an FF Pro once - a hot-wired shift key attached to a foot-pedal made from an office stapler, and a palm-operated key that pressed the Up-view button and allowed me to use the top-hat at the same time. Losing the version 3 Sidewinder software when XP came in made it unworkable though, and I went out & bought a CH Fighterstick and pedals with the thought of getting most of the commands onto the stick. Lightning dabs at the keyboard are okay for messaging or preflight settings, but combat is a different beast.

Getting the fighterstick to work was not easy - and it cost me my warranty! That's not to say that the people at CH haven't been helpful - I've had a good deal of support from them - but I have done some fairly serious butchery to get what I need! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Obviously my case is extraordinary - if there's another one-handed pilot out there I'd love get in touch - but I can offer a couple of tips that may help any left-hander who wants to fly the above set-up with their dominant hand. I think the first could be done without any carving http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

1) Loosen the screws securing the handle and the turn the whole handle through 180 degrees on its axis. Done carefully, this shouldn't snag or overtighten the wires - but if you want to be sure of anything when adjusting stick, look inside first and note how everything is positioned.
This puts the mode LED's at the right side of the base nearest to you and moves the base-mounted throttle to the right side as well.

2) This takes us into warranty-busting country. I sawed off the hat-switch turret on the left side of the handle and moved it! I'm indebted to John McColm, a great friend and fellow side-hack nut, who aided me by doing some of the neatest soldering you ever saw.
I would and could have resecured it on the RH side, but I also needed a more accessible throttle and I secured it on the left side of the base along with a repositoned mode-button.
The new throttle was made by positioning a small 100a rotary pot inside the stick (yes, there is room) with the stub coming out about 2/3 up the RH side of the stick. This is capped with a small, knurled knob from an Aero7 HSF speed-controller, and it rolls beautifully under my thumb. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Obviously there is a need for a fair amount of extended wiring, and the necessity of checking and noting how it all works is of paramount importance. Fortunately the CH build quality is superb and they are designed to allow the changing of pots, switches and springs by the owner, so getting in is not as challenging as with some makes. They're not full of hotglue - wires go into clips - and they're not as densely packed with strenghtening ribs and PCB's as others.

So, some of these adaptations ain't necessary to the ordinary joe, I just thought I'd mention them - but the turret dismount and the base reversing could be of some use.........

Finally, I thought I'd hold the corner for the lefties! This link points out some facts that need noting by the "get over it" crowd, imo.
http://www.linkshaender-beratung.de/english/Statistics.htm

I was actually born left-handed .... but I was made to sit on my left hand and write with my right in order that I shouldn't be a "freak". Experts in neurolgy and psychology have since discovered that this is very damaging and the practice is banned. It was tied in with religious mumbo-jumbo and superstition - left is bad, right is good - Jesus sits on the RHS, God is an old geezer with a f***-off big beard and all that s***. (I'm in trouble - 'He' sees everything you know, and is undoubtedly reading this thread right now!)
Even manual ability is blessed with being dexterous whilst evil qualities fall under the adjective sinister I don't blame people for getting off their chairs and protesting about this unequal treatment. As the piece suggests, there are quite enough people with a dominantly left hand to warrant the manufacturers getting off their butts on this issue. "Get used to it" doesn't hack it. I recognise that building left-handed fighter-jets might not be economical....but mirror-engineering a toy is no big deal.

PS I also ride a BMW K100RS with a sidecar attached, good for a 110mph with a passenger (regularly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) - so no lectures on adapting, hey?

A LH salute to you all http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

huggy87
06-11-2004, 03:42 PM
You are all a bunch of circus freaks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

plumps_
06-11-2004, 05:47 PM
Talking about joystick modification: I moved the left shift button of my Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold to the right side of the casing. Now I can control both shift buttons and the throttle with my right hand, which gives me 8 additional buttons (considering that one of the shift buttons is not accessible normally).

I don't understand why Saitek allow us to move the throttle to the other side of the casing, but don't mirror the shift buttons so we can actually use both of them.

http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/zzz-cyborg.jpg

-----------------------------------
http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/stulogo-banner.jpg (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/)
My Missions (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/missionen-en.html)

[This message was edited by plumps_ on Fri June 11 2004 at 05:34 PM.]

nearmiss
06-11-2004, 06:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by yay1:
My brother is lefty but he can play games and use joystick with right hand. I tried doing the same with my left hand and in 3 hours I was pretty good in CS with lefthand.

Have you lefty guys every tried to use right hand? Not that you have to but it does solve lots of problems.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I had very bad car wreck couldn't even turn key in a lock for over a year with right hand. I work with computers constantly...so I got a Kensington Expert Mouse (trackball) and used with left hand.

Now I've recovered and use FF2 with right hand and I pan around lefthanded with trackball. It's good as Track IR, because you can change mouse movement in the IL2. I barely move the trackball with the left hand and then click the #2 button on FF2 stick and I'm front and center w/target reticle.

Heck, I can do all kinds of things now with my left hand. I wish I'd forced myself to use my left hand years ago, what an advantage in so many things.

It's tough being so http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://avsims.com/portal/modules/liens/images/banner.gif (http://avsims.com/portal/)

Beer Baron
06-11-2004, 09:20 PM
Like alot of the others have said; I'm left handed but use my right for joystick. I use a MS sidewinder precision pro. (off market now?)