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View Full Version : fun what is it and how chould it be added to mmx



znork
06-08-2013, 07:18 AM
As vip we been discussing this withe ubi for som time at this point i would like get som of youre views.

for me fun is getting a good story. Humor is also important. And eaceh level up must make me feel stronger.

What are you views? dont wright esayes just sort and simpel

DotoPock
06-08-2013, 08:38 AM
More artifacts! Previous games didn't have too many of them..

Crosmando
06-08-2013, 08:57 AM
Secrets and hidden things. Finding rare items in chests, or just weird stuff the player might accidentally find while exploring. To give an example, in Clouds of Xeen in the tavern place if you ask for "Advice" the barkeep tells you that "money doesn't grow on trees", but if you examine a nearby tree you find some money on the ground. In addition you can find a message in a bottle just floating in the water. Apart from the "core game" of dungeon crawling, I think a bit charm of M&M was puzzles and secrets which weren't at all made obvious to the player, but they added to the atmosphere of the game.

TheMoorkh
06-08-2013, 09:40 AM
Fun for me is fooling around with my kids or laughing at a friend's joke.
I'm not looking for fun in a computer game. I am looking for challenge, suspense, control and other things.

znork
06-08-2013, 03:11 PM
Fun for me is fooling around with my kids or laughing at a friend's joke.
I'm not looking for fun in a computer game. I am looking for challenge, suspense, control and other things.

Than that is youre fun:D

Ravens Klaws
06-08-2013, 04:54 PM
i don't think your a VIP given how badly that was written, but its a vailid question all the same.
things that made the game great
1>the skills upgrade system. going from expert to master to grandmaster was great and made you feel as if you really where getting better.
2>decent story
3>exploration>i really,really dislike linear games, they get boring after a while. i like going wherever i feel like.
4>secrets and artifacts. always fun to discover and artifacts are always fun to read the history of and use.
5>the 3DO dungeon maybe(rename it)?hehe take your revenge on the staff. always been a fun way to deal with credits.plus you can put more secrets and stuff in the dungeon.

forgottenl
06-08-2013, 08:46 PM
i don't think your a VIP given how badly that was written, but its a vailid question all the same.
things that made the game great
1>the skills upgrade system. going from expert to master to grandmaster was great and made you feel as if you really where getting better.
2>decent story
3>exploration>i really,really dislike linear games, they get boring after a while. i like going wherever i feel like.
4>secrets and artifacts. always fun to discover and artifacts are always fun to read the history of and use.
5>the 3DO dungeon maybe(rename it)?hehe take your revenge on the staff. always been a fun way to deal with credits.plus you can put more secrets and stuff in the dungeon.

From what the OP has posted before, I tend to think he is VIP. Maybe he just wrote the first post in a hurry. For me fun (in terms of a Might and Magic game) is

*a decent story
*exploring a world with enough interesting things that it is worth exploring. Might and Magic did this in may different ways. Hidden treasures, altars, teachers at the corners of thw world, et.
*character development with a lot of valid options.
*interesting and variety filled quests.
*exciting combat with a variety of different opponents in a variety of different enviornments, with a variety of different combat options for your characters.

makkarune
06-09-2013, 09:25 PM
My favorite thing was that the level-ups really mattered. I was always trying to build to a place where I could buy a favorite spell or item. The balance was done perfectly. Things I wanted were out of range, but not so much that I couldn't get them within the next few level-ups. And then we were on to something better. It kept me interested throughout.

I also liked the light-hearted feeling of the series - clever comments in a name or description, etc.

Combat that feels manageable is always a plus too -- challenging enough, but not too frenzied.

HEF2011
06-09-2013, 11:35 PM
It would be important to remember to not create Might & Magic X: Legacy into a pointless, repetitive treasure hunting job like some blizzard entertainment game. Might & Magic characters are heroes not pack-rats.

It would also be important to allow players to find creative and efficient ways to travel from point A to point B.

Give Might & Magic players real & critical decisions to achieve certain goals versus other goals.

Be sure to reward overachiever players generously that extend themselves for side quests.


Be consistant with the current Might & Magic universe. Might & Magic X: Legacy takes place in Ashan, so there isn't any plausible indication where sci-fi elements may not be needed. Previous Might & Magic games may have included sci-fi elements as a by-product of what was popular at the time. There were a lot of sci-fi literature, movies & television shows in the 90s. Not as many sci-fi material currently today.


The trick to making Might & Magic X: Legacy fun is striking a balance between how the combat system works against creature encounters and when the player travels across the region.
Should the combat system be more fun than exploring the world of Ashan or should both tasks be equally exciting?

coltrek
06-10-2013, 03:03 AM
I like the Star Trek References in Might and Magic VI, maybe a cheesy joke or/and easter egg.

supamancam
06-10-2013, 09:02 AM
Having a massive, diverse world to explore. Not having everything balanced to a tee. Freedom of choice. Growing sense of power yet increasing challenge. Having to think instead of blindly mash a or s. Witty characters.

On the side, I dunno about you guys but I don't feel anywhere NEAR as "at home" in Ashan as I did in Erathia/Enroth/Xeen. Not sure if that'll change or not.

narupley
06-14-2013, 05:01 PM
I posted this in an earlier thread but it's relevant here too...

One of the things that made the old M&M games so much fun is all the little things. The importance of all the little time-eaters, little things that make you go "Just one more hour, just one more level, just one more mob of enemies" should not be understated. Overarching gameplay mechanics are very important, but that only makes a good game. What makes a great game is that plus all the little things that make a game fun, long, and addictive.

For example, I liked having trainers instead of auto-leveling, for a couple reasons. First, gold is generally plentiful in M&M games... rather, you usually end up with TOO MUCH gold. So having things to spend all that gold on (like training and expensive spellbooks) gives you a sense of validation. If it wasn't there, you probably wouldn't care as much about looting corpses and chests, or cramming as many things as you can into your inventory in dungeons so you can sell it all back in town. It adds to the exploration aspects as well... give the players incentives to explore! Reward them for going off the beaten path and not just powering through the main quest line!

On this note, I'm very sad that inventory objects appear to now be single icons like they are in Heroes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FR5_PQfbc4Q#t=328s). I for one enjoyed having to manage your inventory; it was yet another one of those little things that added to the strategy and addictiveness.

eobet
06-14-2013, 05:28 PM
As vip we been discussing this withe ubi for som time at this point i would like get som of youre views.

for me fun is getting a good story. Humor is also important. And eaceh level up must make me feel stronger.

What are you views? dont wright esayes just sort and simpel

Hmm... I wonder if this is more people who don't seem to have played MM1-5...

What you are describing fits any number of games. Nothing you say is uniquely "Might & Magic".

MM1-5 was one series of many which implemented the classic D&D formula into the first western CRPGs we had. Grid based, stat based and lots of dice, loot and skills.

The unique things that MM1-5 added to this formula, and which made it uniquely fun was the richness and variation of the world map, the richness and variation of monsters, the richness and variation of spells, and so on. And each colorful part of the game usually required you to find a spell, skill or item and use that in order to progress to the next equally colorful part of the game. For example, arriving at a city where you need to swim over a body of water to progress, so you have to find the trainer who teaches swimming first.

Now, you may say that I say "rich and colorful" a lot, but what set MM1-5 apart was that it was the first CRPG which mixed fantasy with faery tales to create a world which had something new and unique around every single corner of the game all the way up until the end (where you got sci-fi), instead of the same dull, corridors that the competitors had (like Wizardry).

Exploring those worlds were fun.

It is with great worry that I see the various threads here with world map previews which just show green, brown, green. No desert, no volcanoes, no ice. I fear that MM:Legacy will become very repetitive and without having to seek out trainers and other locations in new cities, you might not even have anything to look forward to as you progress.

ICF-Zombra
06-14-2013, 05:29 PM
Fun for me is all about my characters. Feeling like they matter; feeling like the build I chose makes a difference. Making meaningful decisions in their development. Being able to dress them up with cool armor on their paper doll. Seeing their faces. Guiding them through a bunch of weird and challenging situations, and remembering how they chose to react.

znork
06-14-2013, 06:10 PM
Hmm... I wonder if this is more people who don't seem to have played MM1-5...

What you are describing fits any number of games. Nothing you say is uniquely "Might & Magic".

Well that is true i think fun is fun. but yo make good and valid points wiche in the end will make the team think of fun. There are a lot of hardcore mm fans out there im just thinking about keeping mm true to its concept.

avaspin
06-15-2013, 11:22 AM
To me fun is a nice challenge where you're streched to your ability but are able to just survive beating the enemy. For this reason i think games should have several difficulty levels (more than the usual 3) so everyone can play to what challenges them the most. When you're really challenged even small things like picking up better items and gaining levels feel brilliant, it shows that you are really progressing and getting better. Nothing worse than the player automatically, or very easily being better than most monsters from the get go. To many veterans of games the first few hours are always a tutorial and i can see how some people lose interest when there's no challenge.

Nelsonammo
06-16-2013, 09:50 AM
Two words: DISCOVERY and EXPLORATION. Great old school games like Ultima and Might and Magic have it and virtually all new school RPGs are missing it. So satisfying to have a huge open world to explore and discovery crazy new things. The M&M plots were always pretty barebones and you had to figure out what it was about which was cool as well.

Also, don't make the combats super hard. Recently there are old-school style games like Etrian Odyssey which have been released and are good, but some of these games are very difficult and the combat is just a min-maxing nightmare. One of the fun things about M&M is how your puny level 1 guys would eventually become gods by the end of the game and be able to go anywhere and kill anything. You can make the combat tough but don't turn it into an exercise in min-maxing.

Anyway, I'm sure incorporating all this advice is tough but what you guys have so far looks great and it looks like you're really carrying on the "legacy" of the M&M series. Can't wait to play the finished product.

Edit: Also glad you're putting in many M&M mainstays like
- Ambience & atmosphere in a free open world
- Party management
- Interacting with the environment
- “Who will?” questions
- Riddles

Edit again:
JVC: Wizardry and Ultima were great inspirations for me. But I wanted to make my own vision for a CRPG. I wanted more of an open world feel with quests, puzzles and an emphasis on exploration and discovery. I wanted party based tactical combat, tons of magic items to find and an ever increasing feeling of power as you leveled your characters. Most of all I wanted players to feel free to experiment with all the "tools" I put in the game so they could enjoy playing any way they wanted to.
That's from a JVC interview from 2012. It sums up what made M&M so great (and it seems like you guys are hitting all the important points in M&MX)

One more edit: And one of the biggest things that separated M&M from Wizardry and its clones is that in M&M there was always cool stuff to find and do in the dungeons and downs, where in Wizardry and its clones the only things in the dungeons were basically monsters. M&M had puzzles, treasures, NPCs, quests, etc etc etc. One of the reasons I could never play Wizardry since it was just hours and hours of boring wireframe dungeons and monsters with nothing else until you got to the end boss.

LE-Larissa
07-11-2013, 06:42 PM
Hey znork,

Thanks again for creating this thread and @all: thank you for contributing your thoughts about fun! :-)
Just a quick hint here too about the blog post follow-up to the "fun topic" (forums & blog), that Lore just made (click to go to follow-up (https://mightandmagicx-legacy.ubi.com/opendev/blog/post/view/51dee397e754b6bd6c000001)).

Thanks,
Anna (LE-Larissa)