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View Full Version : AI and Animation: Assassins Creed 3 GDC Vault 2013



Assassin_M
05-30-2013, 02:29 AM
This is pretty neat if someone wants to be informed...it has lots and lots of info..just skip to 30:19 and it should start the AC III presentation...(you can watch the other presentations of course if you like. XCOM: Unknown and warframe)

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/193015/Video_Improving_AI_in_Assassins_Creed_III_XCOM_War frame.php

Important points..

Ground navigation (32:19):Reactions to environment, (33:30)uneven terrain integrated into not just movement, (34:00)Procedural animations (Scramble, slide..etc) and problem solver (predictive foot placement) (35:00-38:00)

Free running (40:00-42:00): Comparing old and new jumps, different jumps and positioning

Climbing (42:00): (43:08) 360 support climb system, sequential animations, (44:22) organic surfaces, (45:15) new moves, (46:00-48:21) Dynamic contextual pose and adjustments (Connor`s position on environmental facades)

Tree running (48:23): (48:51)Concept and rules applied, (49:02) Tree archetypes, (50:30-52:50) Procedural animations, contextual poses and adjustments with trees..

cmrggamer
05-30-2013, 03:32 AM
Thanks for posting, that was super fascinating! :)
I've always loved the animations in AC3, but this makes me appreciate them that much more.
Also, the music that was playing when they showed the wolf using the new jump animations XD

pacmanate
05-30-2013, 11:19 AM
"Have to keep in Moinddd" *quaky voice* "Coming up with a cohmprimhiseee"

This woman, **** me in the face with a bat.

ProletariatPleb
05-30-2013, 11:21 AM
They are talking about AI? -_-

pacmanate
05-30-2013, 11:24 AM
What I find funny is they say that the old moveset of Connor reminded them too much of Ezio.... Whereas the new moveset they made, to me doesn't even suit Connor.

ProletariatPleb
05-30-2013, 11:26 AM
What I find funny is they say that the old moveset of Connor reminded them too much of Ezio.... Whereas the new moveset they made, to me doesn't even suit Connor.
The only thing I don't like about AC3's animations that I can remember right now is Connor's walking, he looks ******ed walking with his torso turned sideways and it keeps changing on both sides. Other than that it finally looks good, previous AC games had mostly...just weird animations. ******ed running for example.

and the way Alta´r walks in AC1, you just can't replicate it, lol.

Shahkulu101
05-30-2013, 11:28 AM
The only thing I don't like about AC3's animations that I can remember right now is Connor's walking, he looks ******ed walking with his torso turned sideways and it keeps changing on both sides. Other than that it finally looks good, previous AC games had mostly...just weird animations. ******ed running for example.

and the way Alta´r walks in AC1, you just can't replicate it, lol.

Too much YOLO SWAG.

pacmanate
05-30-2013, 11:29 AM
The only thing I don't like about AC3's animations that I can remember right now is Connor's walking, he looks ******ed walking with his torso turned sideways and it keeps changing on both sides.

I don;t like how the standing animations for any AC protagonist model except for AC1 Altair and AC2 Ezio. AC:B Ezio always looked like his chin was touching his chest, AC:R Ezio was always looking down and Connor was just hunched.

ACfan443
05-30-2013, 01:17 PM
What I find funny is they say that the old moveset of Connor reminded them too much of Ezio.... Whereas the new moveset they made, to me doesn't even suit Connor.

Complain when they reuse old movesets...complain when they make new movesets. Ok.

pacmanate
05-30-2013, 02:13 PM
Complain when they reuse old movesets...complain when they make new movesets. Ok.

Did I say the new moveset was bad?

Cornik22
05-30-2013, 03:41 PM
Kinda funny how they are supossed to talk about AI improvements in the game, and instead they spend the whole time talking about how how much better the navigation in ACIII is. I`m wondering if they will ever decide to spend so much time improving the enemy AI in the franchise, which is awful/pretty basic to say the least.

Farlander1991
05-30-2013, 03:45 PM
Kinda funny how they are supossed to talk about AI improvements in the game, and instead they spend the whole time talking about how how much better the navigation in ACIII is. I`m wondering if they will ever decide to spend so much time improving the enemy AI in the franchise, which is awful/pretty basic to say the least.

I don't think they were actually SUPPOSED to talk about AI improvements, just a misnomer from Gamasutra's article part. It was basically just a collection of mini-postmortems.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 08:09 AM
Whereas the new moveset they made, to me doesn't even suit Connor.
Weird since I thought it suited him perfectly...his run, his walk..etc...especially his run, it just personifies everything about his personality...when he exerts more effort by just moving his arms more and looking down...reckless, hot-headed and...just beast..you see a guy running at you like that and you`re out...that`s him..he`s frecking reckless... "Those who know you think you mad, and this is why"

Suits him fine imo...

also, sorry guys, I just posted the title as it said in the article, I hadn't finished the video yet when i posted the title...to a tiny extent, though...it can be considered AI :P

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 08:11 AM
his walk..
That doesn't suit anyone...walking sideways 0_o

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 08:28 AM
That doesn't suit anyone...walking sideways 0_o
It does in a way...walking sideways usually means that the person is looking up, but doesn't want to reveal his/her face..which makes sense

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 08:31 AM
It does in a way...walking sideways usually means that the person is looking up, but doesn't want to reveal his/her face..which makes sense
I don't know what way that is but it looks...weird. He walks while shifting his shoulders to each side every few seconds, never straight.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 08:36 AM
I don't know what way that is but it looks...weird. He walks while shifting his shoulders to each side every few seconds, never straight.
I think i explained that "way" >_>

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 08:40 AM
I think i explained that "way" >_>
Yeah and it made no sense, walking like a tard will only attract attention, lol.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 08:44 AM
Yeah and it made no sense, walking like a tard will only attract attention, lol.
but he isn't walking like a tard, like I said, walking sideways usually means that the person is looking upwards whilst not wanting to show his/her face...what?? you never walked down a street and seen this before ?<_<

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 08:48 AM
but he isn't walking like a tard, like I said, walking sideways usually means that the person is looking upwards whilst not wanting to show his/her face...what?? you never walked down a street and seen this before ?<_<
A man walking with one shoulder in front, one towards the back and continuously switching the shoulders? No.

But I don't have enemies that would want to hide their face.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 08:52 AM
A man walking with one shoulder in front, one towards the back and continuously switching the shoulders? No.

But I don't have enemies that would want to hide their face.
Look, just forget I said anything -_-

projectpat06
05-31-2013, 09:40 AM
"Aiming for next gen....before next gen"

Hopefully that means AC4 will really be a solid next gen game. Refining what they couldn't do with AC3 and utilizing that in AC4. should be awesome.

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 09:55 AM
Not going to make a new thread just for this so might as well ask it here.

How come Connor can kill however many guards he wants up until a mission marker, lets say 30 odd, yet when Haytham kills 1 hes like "YOYUAS DIDN:@T HVA TO KILL HEM!"""""""""" followed by crying?

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:01 AM
Not going to make a new thread just for this so might as well ask it here.

How come Connor can kill however many guards he wants up until a mission marker, lets say 30 odd, yet when Haytham kills 1 hes like "YOYUAS DIDN:@T HVA TO KILL HEM!"""""""""" followed by crying?
That`s gameplay...you can actually choose not to kill A LOT of people while playing...in terms of story, Connor doesn't need to kill everyone that wants to kill HIM...

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 10:05 AM
Not going to make a new thread just for this so might as well ask it here.

How come Connor can kill however many guards he wants up until a mission marker, lets say 30 odd, yet when Haytham kills 1 hes like "YOYUAS DIDN:@T HVA TO KILL HEM!"""""""""" followed by crying?
because plot forced points that aren't reflected in the game are stupid.

projectpat06
05-31-2013, 10:07 AM
Not going to make a new thread just for this so might as well ask it here.

How come Connor can kill however many guards he wants up until a mission marker, lets say 30 odd, yet when Haytham kills 1 hes like "YOYUAS DIDN:@T HVA TO KILL HEM!"""""""""" followed by crying?

It would have made more sense to just have Connor fight for one side and be all patriotic so we would at least have a good reason to kill every red coat and their grandma from britain. then switch sides and kill every other brit turned american in blue. None of those wanks were actually templars.

At least Edward will be like F*** everyone but me where it will be believable that he kills mass amounts of english, french, and spanish armed forces

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:07 AM
because plot forced points that aren't reflected in the game are stupid.
That`s up to the player isnt it?? If the player goes around killing anyone in his sight, but becomes dumbfounded as to how Connor dislikes unnecessary killing..then...the player`s the ******* right??

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 10:09 AM
That`s up to the player isnt it?? If the player goes around killing anyone in his sight, but becomes dumbfounded as to how Connor dislikes unnecessary killing..then...the player`s the ******* right??
Uhh....that doesn't change the fact that that scene is still going to happen, if you want to give a choice then you also have to ensure it makes sense.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:10 AM
Uhh....that doesn't change the fact that that scene is still going to happen, if you want to give a choice then you also have to ensure it makes sense.
Then you complain about restriction and hand holding :|

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 10:14 AM
Then you complain about restriction and hand holding :|
-_- the point here is: Why have a scene like that at all.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:15 AM
-_- the point here is: Why have a scene like that at all.
building character? creating conflict?

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 10:16 AM
building character? creating conflict?
The point is defeated when it doesn't make sense for most of the audience.

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 10:17 AM
It doesn't make sense. Most people that buy the game are going to kill at least 3 people, which is enough to warrant the player wondering why Connors like "why kill him :'("

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:18 AM
The point is defeated when it doesn't make sense for most of the audience.
Well, that`s the audience fault?? A choice is given...kill everything in sight or not...you choose the earlier...how is it the game`s fault?? :|

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:20 AM
It doesn't make sense. Most people that buy the game are going to kill at least 3 people, which is enough to warrant the player wondering why Connors like "why kill him :'("
Did Connor ever kill someone after interrogation?? No..did Haytham?? Yes...Connor killed people (DUH) so did Ezio and Altair, but they spared people as many times as possible and disliked killing, even expressing guilt or regret at it...why is it so surprising when Connor expresses disgust when Haytham kills prisoners or informers after their interrogation??

SixKeys
05-31-2013, 10:21 AM
Uhh....that doesn't change the fact that that scene is still going to happen, if you want to give a choice then you also have to ensure it makes sense.

The first AC had more choice, yet had this same plothole. Alta´r was supposed to start out reckless so the player could go nuts killing everyone, but as the story progressed he was supposed to learn about humility and the meaning of the creed. Yet you could still kill indiscriminately in every mission.

Farlander1991
05-31-2013, 10:21 AM
Because of the nature of the Animus it's easier for me to let these kinds of things slide, even though in other games it usually annoys me. We can kill 1000s of guards, but, who is there to say that Connor actually killed 1000s of guards?

However, what I think would drive that point better would be if lots of optional objectives (unless in a mass combat situation or something like that) weren't centered around killing guards one way or another, because, you know, most guards are just doing their job and it would be closer to the Creed not to kill them.

Because, for example, in the Angry Chef mission, one of the optional objectives is to perform a bunch of low-profile assassinations. Which doesn't make sense narratively speaking, since Connor is trying to calm Stephan down, from a narrative 'full synch' perspective, the character of Connor would try to just incapacitate the guards so no one would get hurt or killed (because it's pretty much them two that are raising this riot and guards are, well, just doing their job). Optional objectives could be a good way of showing more of Connor's character and who he is without, well, actually adding in dialogues or cutscenes or anything. But instead they're just a bunch of gameplay challenges that don't take it into account :/

Plus, in case of the Haytham situation, they were unarmed hostages that didn't pose any threat. Makes sense that Connor wouldn't want to kill them.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:24 AM
Because, for example, in the Angry Chef mission, one of the optional objectives is to perform a bunch of low-profile assassinations. Which doesn't make sense narratively speaking, since Connor is trying to calm Stephan down, from a narrative 'full synch' perspective, the character of Connor would try to just incapacitate the guards so no one would get hurt or killed (because it's pretty much them two that are raising this riot and guards are, well, just doing their job)
Now that`s something to be talked about...I thought it didnt make sense either...and after that, Connor commends Stephan AFTER actually telling him "there is a way to seek freedom, but this is not it"

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 10:25 AM
Did Connor ever kill someone after interrogation?? No..did Haytham?? Yes...Connor killed people (DUH) so did Ezio and Altair, but they spared people as many times as possible and disliked killing, even expressing guilt or regret at it...why is it so surprising when Connor expresses disgust when Haytham kills prisoners or informers after their interrogation??

Well that's player choice. If faced by 30 guards you could just knock them all out, but you can kill them all. You say that Connor dislikes killing... so why does he have such brutal animations? Why does he have those facial animations that are like YEAHHHHHHH UFCK YOU MOTEHRFU.

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 10:30 AM
The first AC had more choice, yet had this same plothole. Alta´r was supposed to start out reckless so the player could go nuts killing everyone, but as the story progressed he was supposed to learn about humility and the meaning of the creed. Yet you could still kill indiscriminately in every mission.
Well then I suppose they should've learned after 4 games?

Humility? Killing people? I'm not seeing the relation. I mean sure we can kill people but then we don't kick up a fuss when someone else kills people.
Alta´r killed every interrogation target as well. And didn't Connor choke to death every officer for the liberation mission interrogations?

SixKeys
05-31-2013, 10:30 AM
Well that's player choice. If faced by 30 guards you could just knock them all out, but you can kill them all. You say that Connor dislikes killing... so why does he have such brutal animations? Why does he have those facial animations that are like YEAHHHHHHH UFCK YOU MOTEHRFU.

I see Connor as something of a Bruce Banner type. He doesn't like to let his emotions get the better of him so he avoids violence at all costs, but once it becomes unavoidable, there's a dark side of him that actually enjoys killing. The devs once discussed this and said combat is one of the only times he allows his frustrations to come out and channel them into brutality.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:30 AM
Well that's player choice. If faced by 30 guards you could just knock them all out, but you can kill them all. You say that Connor dislikes killing... so why does he have such brutal animations? Why does he have those facial animations that are like YEAHHHHHHH UFCK YOU MOTEHRFU.
You can choose not to do the brutal animations and just stick to bare hands...facial expressions are realistic...Ezio having no facial expressions while fighting is BS...no one fights and kills like this ":nonchalance:"

this too

I see Connor as something of a Bruce Banner type. He doesn't like to let his emotions get the better of him so he avoids violence at all costs, but once it becomes unavoidable, there's a dark side of him that actually enjoys killing. The devs once discussed this and said combat is one of the only times he allows his frustrations to come out and channel them into brutality.

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 10:32 AM
You can choose not to do the brutal animations and just stick to bare hands...facial expressions are realistic...Ezio having no facial expressions while fighting is BS...no one fights and kills like this ":nonchalance:"

But the devs said when he fights he lets his anger out, like SixKeys said.

montagemik
05-31-2013, 10:32 AM
-_- the point here is: Why have a scene like that at all.

Just to emphasise the contrast between Connor & Haytham's character & personal reasoning ...............
I quite liked it , Considering the first few missions of the game had the player convinced the actions we were doing were those of the Assassin & not Templar.
While the two opposing sides may seemingly act as brutal / noble as each other ( i doubt either character relished every kill they made)
It's the reason behind those actions that always sets them apart.


Wasn't an essential scene - But wasn't contradictory to the game story.

As with any AC , anyone in a guard/soldiers uniform is usually fair game for the Assassin ......................Civillians / messengers /pickpockets/mercenaries are often the only restricted targets.

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 10:33 AM
Just to show elements of Connor's character .............Not just a killer with a mission.

Though as with any AC , anyone in a guard/soldiers uniform is usually fair game ......................Civillians / messengers /pickpockets/mercenaries are often the only restricted targets.

But the guards have "Families". They aren't bad people, they are just doing their job.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:34 AM
Well then I suppose they should've learned after 4 games?

Humility? Killing people? I'm not seeing the relation. I mean sure we can kill people but then we don't kick up a fuss when someone else kills people.
Alta´r killed every interrogation target as well. And didn't Connor choke to death every officer for the liberation mission interrogations?
The didn't die, though...

Ezio broke noses :|

projectpat06
05-31-2013, 10:34 AM
Well that's player choice. If faced by 30 guards you could just knock them all out, but you can kill them all. You say that Connor dislikes killing... so why does he have such brutal animations? Why does he have those facial animations that are like YEAHHHHHHH UFCK YOU MOTEHRFU.

you try being surrounded by 10 armed guards and be like ok, I have to knock them out so I don't die and I can't kill them. You have to breath when throwing punches and kicks that hard and it's a workout. Plus his adrenaline would be kicking in causing him to most likely yell

basically go do a bunch of boxing drills and try not to have you mouth open trying to breath and put all your power into the punches.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:35 AM
But the guards have "Families". They aren't bad people, they are just doing their job.
He`s trolling now, guys...just back away

Sushiglutton
05-31-2013, 10:35 AM
Finally had time to watch it, really impressive stuff :D! Now I know why wiggle the stick left and right when running felt saw awesome. Connor moves like no other character in gaming. Treerunning was a triumph imo. Very unique and far more organic than I could have hoped. It's interesting when you see those V-shaped trees lined up and how they support every possible angle of them. Best part in the video was that they showed technology for handling moving stuff that hasn't been implemented yet. Can't wait :). I also wish they made freerunning more interactive, but I now see why that could be a bit tricky lol.

SixKeys
05-31-2013, 10:35 AM
Well then I suppose they should've learned after 4 games?

Humility? Killing people? I'm not seeing the relation. I mean sure we can kill people but then we don't kick up a fuss when someone else kills people.
Alta´r killed every interrogation target as well. And didn't Connor choke to death every officer for the liberation mission interrogations?

I just wanted to point out that the first game wasn't perfect either. If you're going to criticize Connor for it, might as well criticize Alta´r too.

Malik scolded Alta´r at the beginning for killing the old man at Solomon's Temple just like Connor scolded Haytham. The creed is about only taking lives when absolutely necessary. That's why Alta´r and Haytham both got lectured by assassins who respect the creed while still being killers themselves.

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 10:37 AM
you try being surrounded by 10 armed guards and be like ok, I have to knock them out so I don't die and I can't kill them. You have to breath when throwing punches and kicks that hard and it's a workout. Plus his adrenaline would be kicking in causing him to most likely yell

basically go do a bunch of boxing drills and try not to have you mouth open trying to breath and put all your power into the punches.

If he was surrounded by 10 guards, it would be his fault anyway.


He`s trolling now, guys...just back away

Im not... since when were guards bad people? It's just a job.

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 10:37 AM
I just wanted to point out that the first game wasn't perfect either. If you're going to criticize Connor for it, might as well criticize Alta´r too.

Malik scolded Alta´r at the beginning for killing the old man at Solomon's Temple just like Connor scolded Haytham. The creed is about only taking lives when absolutely necessary. That's why Alta´r and Haytham both got lectured by assassins who respect the creed while still being killers themselves.
I never said it was perfect :p and I'm criticizing the relevance of the scene not Connor.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:37 AM
Finally had time to watch it, really impressive stuff :D! Now I know why wiggle the stick left and right when running felt saw awesome. Connor moves like no other character in gaming. Treerunning was a triumph imo. Very unique and far more organic than I could have hoped. It's interesting when you see those V-shaped trees lined up and how they support every possible angle of them. Best part in the video was that they showed technology for handling moving stuff that hasn't been implemented yet. Can't wait :). I also wish they made freerunning more interactive, but I now see why that could be a bit tricky lol.
watching these makes me appreciate the game so much more and how much work and thought went into this

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:38 AM
If he was surrounded by 10 guards, it would be his fault anyway.
Im not... since when were guards bad people? It's just a job.
Is this Hippie`s Creed??

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 10:39 AM
Is this Hippie`s Creed??

Hippies smoke weeed

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:40 AM
Hippies smoke weeed
Hashashin...weed..Hashish..

Mind=blown

projectpat06
05-31-2013, 10:41 AM
If he was surrounded by 10 guards, it would be his fault anyway.



Well then, I imagine he just envisions each guard as Charles Lee constantly saying "G-A-T-O-R-A-D-E!!" and "WATER SUCKS" so he pulls a whole Bobby Boucher transferring the power from his medulla oblongata to his fists

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 10:41 AM
Hashashin...weed..Hashish..

Mind=blown

That explains why Ezio and Altairs faces changed :O

Sushiglutton
05-31-2013, 10:42 AM
watching these makes me appreciate the game so much more and how much work and thought went into this

Yeah and also makes you feel a bit spoiled and ungrateful :(. The animation team for AC is amazing, they have always been and it's a huge reason for why I love the franchise despite it's flaws. I just wish there could be better gameplay and activities to support what the animators are doing.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:43 AM
Yeah and also makes you feel a bit spoiled and ungrateful :(. The animation team for AC is amazing, they have always been and it's a huge reason for why I love the franchise despite it's flaws. I just wish there could be better gameplay and activities to support what the animators are doing.
Yeah :/ it`s kinda sad when a team or more do their jobs perfectly, but are overshadowed by the failure of other teams and are thus shown no or little appreciation for their amazing work

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 10:46 AM
Yeah :/ it`s kinda sad when a team or more do their jobs perfectly, but are overshadowed by the failure of other teams and are thus shown no or little appreciation for their amazing work
Life in a nutshell.

Farlander1991
05-31-2013, 10:48 AM
Yeah and also makes you feel a bit spoiled and ungrateful http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20120411.419/images/smilies/frown.png. The animation team for AC is amazing, they have always been and it's a huge reason for why I love the franchise despite it's flaws. I just wish there could be better gameplay and activities to support what the animators are doing.

I just would like to point out that the work from that video is not just the work of animators, but of programmers too (who do you think was working on making it all procedural? ;) ). And stuff like windmill - that's level designers (which reminds me, I had a lot of fun climbing that windmill). So it's all collaborative effort. I know we disagree with this, but I think the free-running mechanics are good enough for some awesome stuff as they are now (but I do think there have to be some changes and additions to make the specific chase and platforming levels more awesome). And there are quite a few of interesting places in the world to navigate, windmill just being one of them.

shobhit7777777
05-31-2013, 10:51 AM
Weird since I thought it suited him perfectly...his run, his walk..etc...especially his run, it just personifies everything about his personality...when he exerts more effort by just moving his arms more and looking down...reckless, hot-headed and...just beast..you see a guy running at you like that and you`re out...that`s him..he`s frecking reckless... "Those who know you think you mad, and this is why"

Suits him fine imo...

also, sorry guys, I just posted the title as it said in the article, I hadn't finished the video yet when i posted the title...to a tiny extent, though...it can be considered AI :P

I agree

I also agree with the Temerian that Connor's walk is a lil off...BUT I know why it is that way...its a purposeful stride, strong in movement..yet the overall movement is that of an explorer...Connor is an alien in the vast urban expanses of Western settlements....he himself is an idealistic guy full of wonder...the walk with the off-kilter shoulder indicates a guy in a new wondrous yet dangerous environment...thats IMO

Also....I didn't go through the video..net speed is being an A-hole

M..could bullet point the important parts? You'll know which parts I'm talking about right? like a brief summary. Much thanks.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:54 AM
I just would like to point out that the work from that video is not just the work of animators, but of programmers too (who do you think was working on making it all procedural? ;) ). And stuff like windmill - that's level designers (which reminds me, I had a lot of fun climbing that windmill). So it's all collaborative effort. I know we disagree with this, but I think the free-running mechanics are good enough for some awesome stuff as they are now (but I do think there have to be some changes and additions to make the specific chase and platforming levels more awesome). And there are quite a few of interesting places in the world to navigate, windmill just being one of them.
I always saw the windmill as a condensed, dynamic, perfect example of a well designed level for some reason...

I assumed most knew that Programming is integral in animation, since Alleisia is AI lead :P

Sushiglutton
05-31-2013, 10:55 AM
I just would like to point out that the work from that video is not just the work of animators, but of programmers too (who do you think was working on making it all procedural? ;) ). And stuff like windmill - that's level designers (which reminds me, I had a lot of fun climbing that windmill). So it's all collaborative effort. I know we disagree with this, but I think the free-running mechanics are good enough for some awesome stuff as they are now (but I do think there have to be some changes and additions to make the specific chase and platforming levels more awesome). And there are quite a few of interesting places in the world to navigate, windmill just being one of them.

Yeah, you're right there are several teams who deserves credit for making these things work. However I think some aspects of AC underperforms year after year (enemy AI, mission design, open world activities), which is a shame because like M says it means the stuff that is amazing doesn't get the credit it deserves.

At least you say: "but I do think there have to be some changes and additions to make the specific chase and platforming levels more awesome". This makes me optimistic ;)!

Farlander1991
05-31-2013, 10:57 AM
BTW, out of curiosity, am I the only person here who LIKED the underground tunnels? Sure, there were a lot of corridors, but there were also a lot of cool navigational puzzles that I really enjoyed, and it feels to me that it's one of the under-appreciated areas of AC3, especially when it concerns climbing level design :/

And enemy AI was always kinda really stupid in AC (well... Ezio's trilogy, mostly). I actually think that AC3's enemy AI is the closest to AC1's that we have.

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 10:58 AM
M..could bullet point the important parts? You'll know which parts I'm talking about right? like a brief summary. Much thanks.
it`s gonna take some time if you`re patient, but i`ll do it...

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 11:02 AM
BTW, out of curiosity, am I the only person here who LIKED the underground tunnels? Sure, there were a lot of corridors, but there were also a lot of cool navigational puzzles that I really enjoyed, and it feels to me that it's one of the under-appreciated areas of AC3, especially when it concerns climbing level design :/

And enemy AI was always kinda really stupid in AC (well... Ezio's trilogy, mostly). I actually think that AC3's enemy AI is the closest to AC1's that we have.
I liked the tunnels...the Atmosphere and some climbing puzzles were cool...and the shift from tunnels under the country side to tunnels under the city were a nice detail...I hope I wasn't the only who noticed this :D

I was only disappointed with the Door puzzles and how easy they were....I did not exert enough effort, seeing as those were replacements to Clay`s puzzles

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 11:05 AM
Technically, AC3 is a masterpiece to me. Visually stunning, amazing animations, great NPC civilian behaviour.

Its just the core of the game, the story and the mission design let it down. Its easy to see why people forget the other things.

Sushiglutton
05-31-2013, 11:06 AM
BTW, out of curiosity, am I the only person here who LIKED the underground tunnels? Sure, there were a lot of corridors, but there were also a lot of cool navigational puzzles that I really enjoyed, and it feels to me that it's one of the under-appreciated areas of AC3, especially when it concerns climbing level design :/

And enemy AI was always kinda really stupid in AC (well... Ezio's trilogy, mostly). I actually think that AC3's enemy AI is the closest to AC1's that we have.

I thought the tunnels were fairly lame tbh. There were a couple of experimental platforming puzzles (jumping to avoid water) but they felt real primitive compared to stuff you can find in a real platforming game (such as Prince Of Persia). The entire idea to slowly walk with a lamp and then tap a button when you saw a torch was infuriating. Uncovering the map drived me nuts as you had to walk in the wrong direction all the time to make sure the map was fully exposed. The puzzles were too simple and very contrived.

shobhit7777777
05-31-2013, 11:08 AM
it`s gonna take some time if you`re patient, but i`ll do it...

http://i.imgur.com/LtNt9Y6.jpg

Farlander1991
05-31-2013, 11:13 AM
I thought the tunnels were fairly lame tbh. There were a couple of experimental platforming puzzles (jumping to avoid water) but they felt real primitive compared to stuff you can find in a real platforming game (such as Prince Of Persia). The entire idea to slowly walk with a lamp and then tap a button when you saw a torch was infuriating. Uncovering the map drived me nuts as you had to walk in the wrong direction all the time to make sure the map was fully exposed. The puzzles were too simple and very contrived.

Well, I'm not only talk about water puzzles. Like, there's a cliff-thingie from which you have to make a very specific jump to another cliff-thingie, and it was a cool use of the existing mechanics and figuring out how to jump :D And just a bunch of little navigational puzzles where you see your goal and try to find your proper way there, those are cool.

And I loved walking around in the tunnels, it was very atmospheric. But, I'm also the guy who has spent hours and hours in the homestead without doing anything, so... That's just me, probably. :D (well, and M, apparently :D )

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 11:14 AM
And I loved walking around in the tunnels, it was very atmospheric. But, I'm also the guy who has spent hours and hours in the homestead without doing anything, so... That's just me, probably. :D (well, and M, apparently :D )
I spent countless hours following homesteaders....just drooling at their AI and behaviors :|

I also stalked city folks sometimes...it was nice to finally see them do something different other than walk around aimlessly like before....there was this woman window shopping in the market, she finished and went on her way, I followed her, she stopped at a window and tried to looks through, when a man came and looked with her, then a third tried barging in, but they wouldn't let him xD, they eventually finished and the lady kept walking around the market till night time when she hooked up with a guy and they started smoochin`

projectpat06
05-31-2013, 11:15 AM
I thought the tunnels were fairly lame tbh. There were a couple of experimental platforming puzzles (jumping to avoid water) but they felt real primitive compared to stuff you can find in a real platforming game (such as Prince Of Persia). The entire idea to slowly walk with a lamp and then tap a button when you saw a torch was infuriating. Uncovering the map drived me nuts as you had to walk in the wrong direction all the time to make sure the map was fully exposed. The puzzles were too simple and very contrived.

Well, walking in tunnels to find everything underground would normally have walking around clueless down pointless corridors. I liked it bc you actually had to do a little bit of tedious work to get your fast travel points. The tunnels gave another layer of immersion that ACB and ACR were missing.

Farlander1991
05-31-2013, 11:19 AM
I spent countless hours following homesteaders....just drooling at their AI and behaviors :|


I remember I literally squealed when one of the homesteaders held the door open for me at the Inn :D

Sushiglutton
05-31-2013, 11:21 AM
Well that's just hunky dory :nonchalance:. Everyone likes the tunnels. Maybe Ubi should do an underground game where you play as an assassin with paralyzed legs, who can only slowly crawl through the enviroment?

Jk:p

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 11:25 AM
I remember I literally squealed when one of the homesteaders held the door open for me at the Inn :D
YES YES, if you`re close enough to the door when they open it they wait a bit for you to get in and then close it...they even do it for each other...

also, timothy reading letters, Warren having convos with the inn keeper and Prudence having tea with Ellen...all comes with its own unique conversations

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 11:25 AM
Well that's just hunky dory :nonchalance:. Everyone likes the tunnels. Maybe Ubi should do an underground game where you play as an assassin with paralyzed legs, who can only slowly crawl through the enviroment?

Jk:p
Rofl, should do that.

Farlander1991
05-31-2013, 11:27 AM
YES YES, if you`re close enough to the door when they open it they wait a bit for you to get in and then close it...they even do it for each other...

also, timothy reading letters, Warren having convos with the inn keeper and Prudence having tea with Ellen...all comes with its own unique conversations

I remember Big Dave was talking to Terry at the Inn and he had incredibly funny analogy about what the army is and what he thinks about getting conscripted... I laughed so hard I don't remember the joke :(

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 11:34 AM
I remember Big Dave was talking to Terry at the Inn and he had incredibly funny analogy about what the army is and what he thinks about getting conscripted... I laughed so hard I don't remember the joke :(
I don`t remember it either, but I do remember hearing said convo xD. there`s just soo many that you cant help but forget some haha..

also when you approach one of them working...Prudence might go "busy busy" if she`s milking the cow or "Smells delicious" when baking :D

much more like this that made the Homestead astounding to just sit around in and stalk people xD

Assassin_M
05-31-2013, 12:02 PM
http://i.imgur.com/LtNt9Y6.jpg
OP updated

montagemik
05-31-2013, 12:26 PM
But the guards have "Families". They aren't bad people, they are just doing their job.


So if i'm a Guard - with a wife & kids .......& the Captain says "Go slaughter those women & Children in that village" ..........I'm supposed to say YES SIR , & begin the massacre. :confused:
Tell the wife & kids it's just another day at work . ??

Every man has his own conscience , " I was Just doing my Job" .................possibly one of Histories most offensive responses to any unfortunate outcome.

Your moral compass may be stuck - Give it a Slap . ;)

ProletariatPleb
05-31-2013, 12:32 PM
So if i'm a Guard - with a wife & kids .......& the Captain says "Go slaughter those women & Children in that village" ..........I'm supposed to say YES SIR , & begin the massacre. :confused:
Tell the wife & kids it's just another day at work . ??

Every man has his own conscience , " I was Just doing my Job" .................possibly one of Histories most offensive responses to any unfortunate outcome.

Your moral compass may be stuck - Give it a Slap . ;)
Except all they're doing is patrolling or guarding on rooftops mostly...

pacmanate
05-31-2013, 02:09 PM
So if i'm a Guard - with a wife & kids .......& the Captain says "Go slaughter those women & Children in that village" ..........I'm supposed to say YES SIR , & begin the massacre. :confused:
Tell the wife & kids it's just another day at work . ??

Every man has his own conscience , " I was Just doing my Job" .................possibly one of Histories most offensive responses to any unfortunate outcome.

Your moral compass may be stuck - Give it a Slap . ;)

If you are a soldier, you never disobey orders. They only attacked the village because they were told it was a threat. If you were told to end the threat to save your city, YOUR family, I am sure you would.

MasterfulList53
05-31-2013, 02:27 PM
Thanks for the link - that was really interesting. Now I know why I spent so many hours just marveling at the fluidity of Connor's movements and his reactivity to the environment.

Anyway, here's hoping they add more moving climbable objects in future games; climbing the windmills in AC3 was incredible. It's a pity that this (and no doubt so much else) couldn't be more fully realised in the final game due to optimisation restrictions... it's seriously making me consider buying a next generation console sooner rather than later.

montagemik
05-31-2013, 02:58 PM
If you are a soldier, you never disobey orders. They only attacked the village because they were told it was a threat. If you were told to end the threat to save your city, YOUR family, I am sure you would.

Well shoot me for disobediance ..................I Wouldn't kill innocent women & Children under any Orders , Even for my own family . Captain & King can tell me whatever they like - I have a mind of my own to judge true threat.

like i said , maybe your moral compass is broken or stuck.

Ureh
05-31-2013, 03:48 PM
If you are a soldier, you never disobey orders. They only attacked the village because they were told it was a threat. If you were told to end the threat to save your city, YOUR family, I am sure you would.

Possibly another reason why some soldiers might obey those types of commands is because they're cowards. They're afraid they'll be disciplined; if they have families they'll be further shamed and might even be discharged/lose income. Also distrust: no one knows who might rat out one another for disobeying orders. Maybe soldiers are ordered to shoot one another if one is insolent.

I hope I'm wrong since this is contrary to what we're told about how soldiers are dauntless and are Brothers to each other.

SixKeys
06-01-2013, 12:11 AM
The tunnels needed better rewards than unlocking fast-travel stations. By the time you had found them all, you most likely had already traversed pretty much all of the city on foot, so unlocking fast-travel was pointless. Even though it wasn't much better, I still preferred the system in ACB where you could simply buy a fast-travel point whenever you found one.

The tunnels also should have had more puzzles and platforming sections. The ones that were there were extremely simple. Sometimes they also only worked from one direction. I forget whether it's in Boston or New York, but there's one section where you have to open two doors separated by two small pools of water. To get to the other side you have to turn a wheel which will lower a wooden platform, allowing you to cross the pools with the lantern. If you enter the tunnels from the "wrong" side, the platform can't be used, even if you lowered it before, and you can't jump across with the lantern. It's like they didn't even think these sections through, just slapped them on as an afterthought.

David2010549
06-01-2013, 02:53 AM
Another thank you for this video. It's rare that simulating realistic human motion is so foundational to a game, and all the technology behind it is fascinating. I wonder if First Civilization environments will be used in the future to take advantage of the possibilities the dynamic climbing movement and animation systems bring.

shobhit7777777
06-01-2013, 05:13 AM
OP updated

Thanks a ton