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View Full Version : No stealth in ac4 true or not?



lothario-da-be
05-16-2013, 08:49 PM
So i decided to rewatch trailers from all ac games to see how much stealth they had, lets see.
AC1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXu3pdxeKpQ
This trailer has a little bit stealth in the begin, the rest of the 1st part is walking and free-running.Halfway its all action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkrMUKpG50Y
okay this one first running away, then a hidden blade kill, then altair talking with a view on the city to end. Then action, action,action, and some stealth to end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ha5X7MveBI
okay, Altair walking,then combat,free-running, and combat again, then some running and combat mixed.

So AC had much action and free-running in its trailers, with some to almost no stealth.




AC2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a12e3iKzqlw
It starts with walking and free-running, then chariot part, then combat with some hidden blade kills in between, walking, flying machine, stealthy double assassination to end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6s72l6Phsg
Ezio sitting, story information and cinematics, combat,combat,combat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r-44Vg9aqk

Cutscenes,stealth and action mixed.And action,action,action to end.



AC3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_SJRLb4TeI

Frontier, Boston, New York, then Battelfields, naval warfare then Connor free-running. Combat,combat,stealth,combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1OvvLH2w6Q

Battelfields,naval warfare, and Battelfields again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiVJG_mrtFo

chasing,walking, battelfields,combat,free-running, combat





AC4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT0VWhyEXX0
Naval battles, Havana, Kingston,Jungle.Naval warfare again,combat,stealth, diving, stealth and combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iys4wq7O_fQ
Combat, free-running, stealth, Havana, combat, stealth, combat and other stuff.



As you can see AC1 had the most stealth but still not that much, the same for ac2 with a bitt less stealth. Just 1 stealth moment in ac3, and for ac4 again stealth with more combat.
I hope you appreciate this because it took me a lot of time to make this.

SixKeys
05-16-2013, 09:05 PM
I've never seen that AC1 launch trailer before. It's awesome. :eek:

In the last AC4 trailer I only spotted one stealth moment, when Edward sneaks up behind a white-jacket guard.

You make a good point that trailers can be deceiving. The early AC1 and AC2 trailers focused largely on combat as well. I think in recent years people feel it stands out more because they don't just show hand-to-hand combat, but also explosions, naval battles, cannonballs flying, firing lines etc.

lothario-da-be
05-16-2013, 09:07 PM
I've never seen that AC1 launch trailer before. It's awesome. :eek:

In the last AC4 trailer I only spotted one stealth moment, when Edward sneaks up behind a white-jacket guard.

You make a good point that trailers can be deceiving. The early AC1 and AC2 trailers focused largely on combat as well. I think in recent years people feel it stands out more because they don't just show hand-to-hand combat, but also explosions, naval battles, cannonballs flying, firing lines etc.
Yeah, ac3 has almost more naval stuff and battelfields then combat. And ac4 has a good mix of stealth,combat,naval warfare and the cities itself.

AssassinHMS
05-16-2013, 09:19 PM
So i decided to rewatch trailers from all ac games to see how much stealth they had, lets see.
AC1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXu3pdxeKpQ
This trailer has a little bit stealth in the begin, the rest of the 1st part is walking and free-running.Halfway its all action.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkrMUKpG50Y
okay this one first running away, then a hidden blade kill, then altair talking with a view on the city to end. Then action, action,action, and some stealth to end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ha5X7MveBI
okay, Altair walking,then combat,free-running, and combat again, then some running and combat mixed.

So AC had much action and free-running in its trailers, with some to almost no stealth.




AC2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a12e3iKzqlw
It starts with walking and free-running, then chariot part, then combat with some hidden blade kills in between, walking, flying machine, stealthy double assassination to end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6s72l6Phsg
Ezio sitting, story information and cinematics, combat,combat,combat.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6r-44Vg9aqk

Cutscenes,stealth and action mixed.And action,action,action to end.



AC3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_SJRLb4TeI

Frontier, Boston, New York, then Battelfields, naval warfare then Connor free-running. Combat,combat,stealth,combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1OvvLH2w6Q

Battelfields,naval warfare, and Battelfields again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiVJG_mrtFo

chasing,walking, battelfields,combat,free-running, combat





AC4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT0VWhyEXX0
Naval battles, Havana, Kingston,Jungle.Naval warfare again,combat,stealth, diving, stealth and combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iys4wq7O_fQ
Combat, free-running, stealth, Havana, combat, stealth, combat and other stuff.



As you can see AC1 had the most stealth but still not that much, the same for ac2 with a bitt less stealth. Just 1 stealth moment in ac3, and for ac4 again stealth with more combat.
I hope you appreciate this because it took me a lot of time to make this.

This is very interesting... It seems the trailers show the amount of stealth and emphasis on the assassin feel that will be in the final product. If so, then we can expect a lot of action, few stealth and a lack of elements that used to be pivotal to the franchise. Just like I thought, it seems AC4 will be an improved version of AC3 but with, pretty much, the same disregard for the elements that define the franchise.
I really hope AC4 fails because, maybe then, Ubisoft will start to respect the franchise and make a proper AC game...

lothario-da-be
05-16-2013, 09:29 PM
This is very interesting... It seems the trailers show the amount of stealth and emphasis on the assassin feel that will be in the final product. If so, then we can expect a lot of action, few stealth and a lack of elements that used to be pivotal to the franchise. Just like I thought, it seems AC4 will be an improved version of AC3 but with, pretty much, the same disregard for the elements that define the franchise.
I really hope AC4 fails because, maybe then, Ubisoft will start to respect the franchise and make a proper AC game...
The ac4 trailers until now hint at more stealth then ac3, and around the same as ac2. If the final game will be like that, i will be very happy with this pirate game.

ProletariatPleb
05-16-2013, 09:30 PM
All the trailers have always been kind of "deceiving"

ArabianFrost
05-16-2013, 09:45 PM
Again, these trailers are all made for the casuals that just want to hype over the EpIC FtW 'Splosions pirates. They know that the majority of people who would bother about stealth probably know the game does have stealth. Who the hell do you think the interviews with the Devs are aimed for?

Assassin_M
05-16-2013, 10:14 PM
All the trailers have always been kind of "deceiving"
that`s what i`v been saying over and over and over and over and over again...

You wanna know where the casuals come from?? these trailers...

Also, there`s one post here that has me scratching my head...not in ignorance, but in awe...at how idiotic that post is...it`s like the poster didn't even get the idea of this thread....to that poster....dense much??

SixKeys
05-16-2013, 10:19 PM
I really hope AC4 fails because, maybe then, Ubisoft will start to respect the franchise and make a proper AC game...

If you think that's how corporate heads work, then I feel sorry for you. When a movie or game in an established franchise fails, the executives never think it may be because it was a bad movie/game or not what the customers wanted. They think "oh, looks like nobody's interested in this genre anymore! Let's scrap this series and move on to something totally different!". Just look at how Batman & Robin and Catwoman almost single-handedly killed comic book movies. The execs didn't consider they failed because they were terrible movies, they figured it was because the public was bored with comic book heroes. Look at how Resident Evil and Silent Hill have moved further and further away from their roots. Everyone keeps saying "wow, these games are terrible" and the devs go "oh, looks like no-one cares about survival horror anymore. Needs moar action!".

Sushiglutton
05-16-2013, 10:27 PM
I watched alll of them, AC has always had awesome trailers :D! I agree with your conclusion, can't really decide how the stealth/action ratio will be by just looking at the trailers.

itsamea-mario
05-16-2013, 10:46 PM
Stealth doesn't make for a very exciting trailer.

AssassinHMS
05-16-2013, 10:51 PM
If you think that's how corporate heads work, then I feel sorry for you. When a movie or game in an established franchise fails, the executives never think it may be because it was a bad movie/game or not what the customers wanted. They think "oh, looks like nobody's interested in this genre anymore! Let's scrap this series and move on to something totally different!". Just look at how Batman & Robin and Catwoman almost single-handedly killed comic book movies. The execs didn't consider they failed because they were terrible movies, they figured it was because the public was bored with comic book heroes. Look at how Resident Evil and Silent Hill have moved further and further away from their roots. Everyone keeps saying "wow, these games are terrible" and the devs go "oh, looks like no-one cares about survival horror anymore. Needs moar action!".

Then, in your opinion, what's the solution? I think that, if AC games until AC3 sold a lot but the consumers reaction to AC3 was bad and the sales droped after AC3, it would be normal for them to assume they should go back to AC1's style and focus on the core aspects of the series in order to please older fans who were disappointed with the direction the franchise took. Besides didn't someone that worked on Resident Evil said they would go back to the survival horror genre?

SixKeys
05-16-2013, 11:14 PM
Then, in your opinion, what's the solution? I think that, if AC games until AC3 sold a lot but the consumers reaction to AC3 was bad and the sales droped after AC3, it would be normal for them to assume they should go back to AC1's style and focus on the core aspects of the series in order to please older fans who were disappointed with the direction the franchise took. Besides didn't someone that worked on Resident Evil said they would go back to the survival horror genre?

I didn't say I had an easy solution, just stating how corporations work. If AC4 fails, they will not look at it as a chance to take it back to the AC1 formula, they will look at it as franchise fatigue.

If I had any say in the matter, I would tell the devs to really listen to fan feedback on the core issues. It seems like whenever they take one step forward, they take two steps back in another area. ACR introduced distraction bombs. Great! More stealth tools! But it also introduced thunder bombs and flamethrowers. AC3 upgraded the enemy AI since many people had complained about the guards being too stupid. The problem: the AI is inconsistent and has magical telepathic abilities.

The series biggest problems from the very beginning have been stupid enemy AI, weak combat and lacking stealth mechanics. The fans have been begging the devs to fix these core issues for years and then move on to introducing new gimmicks. Instead the devs spend more time coming up with cheap workarounds to the problems (combat is problematic, you say? Here, have some more enemy archetypes and weapons!). They keep insisting they listen to the fans, but if they really cared about feedback, they would take their time properly testing each new feature before implementation.

Rugterwyper32
05-16-2013, 11:25 PM
Then, in your opinion, what's the solution? I think that, if AC games until AC3 sold a lot but the consumers reaction to AC3 was bad and the sales droped after AC3, it would be normal for them to assume they should go back to AC1's style and focus on the core aspects of the series in order to please older fans who were disappointed with the direction the franchise took. Besides didn't someone that worked on Resident Evil said they would go back to the survival horror genre?

About RE: For starters, it all comes from the success of RE: Revelations for the 3DS and how critically slammed RE6 and Operation Raccoon City were. And while Revelations is closer to Survival Horror, it's still very much like RE4. Took them forever to realize that the fans wanted survival horror back, and they're clearly moving back. At a slow pace, that is. The day they go back to REmake/RE1/RE2 in terms of horror and puzzles with less focus on combat even with the over the shoulder cam, that'll be the day they'll actually have gone back to survival horror. Ain't that easy for a company to go all the way back.
At least these devs are acknowledging AC1 right now and there's a chance AC4 will be the closest we've gotten to that since AC2. Don't trust trailers. Hitman: Blood Money was easily the best game in the Hitman series, yet the trailers included lots of action and not that much stealth.
And honestly, even when they say they're going back to the roots, expect that to happen 3/4 games down the line. Just hope that it doesn't go Sonic on us and gives us something as disastrous as Sonic 06 (Not that I think that's possible anymore by this point, that truly was the lowest point Sega could have hit)

AssassinHMS
05-16-2013, 11:39 PM
If AC4 fails, they will not look at it as a chance to take it back to the AC1 formula, they will look at it as franchise fatigue.

If I had any say in the matter, I would tell the devs to really listen to fan feedback on the core issues. It seems like whenever they take one step forward, they take two steps back in another area. ACR introduced distraction bombs. Great! More stealth tools! But it also introduced thunder bombs and flamethrowers. AC3 upgraded the enemy AI since many people had complained about the guards being too stupid. The problem: the AI is inconsistent and has magical telepathic abilities.

The series biggest problems from the very beginning have been stupid enemy AI, weak combat and lacking stealth mechanics. The fans have been begging the devs to fix these core issues for years and then move on to introducing new gimmicks. Instead the devs spend more time coming up with cheap workarounds to the problems (combat is problematic, you say? Here, have some more enemy archetypes and weapons!). They keep insisting they listen to the fans, but if they really cared about feedback, they would take their time properly testing each new feature before implementation.

If the sales decreased in a noticebly way, before abandoning the franchise they would probably listen to the feedback. I never tried to understand how corporate heads work so I won't pretend I do (even though I assume it's all about profit and that there isn't any love for the actual franchise) but if AC4 was to fail and most fans asked for quality over quantity (no need for naval battles, for tons of equipment or huge yet empty worlds) and for a game that focused on assassins and stealthy, creative and breathtaking assassinations, that followed the original idea portrayed in AC1 and improved it, I think they would listen to the feedback and, at least, change their strategy accordingly. Maybe it's a long shot but it could work.

montagemik
05-17-2013, 12:19 AM
If AC sales decrease this year , It will be chalked up to Next gen Console launches & little else .

lothario-da-be
05-18-2013, 03:26 PM
If AC sales decrease this year , It will be chalked up to Next gen Console launches & little else .
Wich is not gonna happen, it releases on 6 platforms.

lothario-da-be
05-18-2013, 05:03 PM
I didn't say I had an easy solution, just stating how corporations work. If AC4 fails, they will not look at it as a chance to take it back to the AC1 formula, they will look at it as franchise fatigue.

If I had any say in the matter, I would tell the devs to really listen to fan feedback on the core issues. It seems like whenever they take one step forward, they take two steps back in another area. ACR introduced distraction bombs. Great! More stealth tools! But it also introduced thunder bombs and flamethrowers. AC3 upgraded the enemy AI since many people had complained about the guards being too stupid. The problem: the AI is inconsistent and has magical telepathic abilities.

The series biggest problems from the very beginning have been stupid enemy AI, weak combat and lacking stealth mechanics. The fans have been begging the devs to fix these core issues for years and then move on to introducing new gimmicks. Instead the devs spend more time coming up with cheap workarounds to the problems (combat is problematic, you say? Here, have some more enemy archetypes and weapons!). They keep insisting they listen to the fans, but if they really cared about feedback, they would take their time properly testing each new feature before implementation.
These problems could be avoided when they often switch teams. I mean, when FC3 was ready let a part of the team work on ac4, when SC blacklist is done, let some people work on ac5. In this way good ideas from 1 game could be implented in others, and people who just worked on a stealth game can use their experience to help another. Let the AC teams also work on other games to let them be creative.I think if they do this all the time the quality of multiple franchise will increase.

lothario-da-be
01-19-2014, 08:59 PM
Oh the irony of this thread after ac4...