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View Full Version : A request for the "Old" style of viewpoints



pacmanate
05-15-2013, 11:55 PM
In AC3 one of the changes to viewpoints made no sense to me, and wasnt necessary. This was that viewpoints never fully revealed the map. To do so you have to run back and fourth like a chicken to reveal parts of the map. Frankly its boring and it also looks ugly having parts of the map missing.

Please return to the old style of viewpoints that actual reveal the whole map!

Assassin_M
05-15-2013, 11:57 PM
I disagree...I didn't have to run back and forth like a chicken...I EXPLORED the map and I enjoyed it...NY, Boston and the Frontier are the only places I know my way around in by heart, because of this....

SixKeys
05-16-2013, 12:00 AM
Yes, please return the old-style viewpoints. The AC3 ones were terrible. I get the concept behind having to explore to reveal the map, but in AC3 it was a pain in the *** because even running through an area or syncing a viewpoint still left little patches of fog everywhere.

ACfan443
05-16-2013, 12:00 AM
I agree. The new system was a mess. Frantically walking back and forth to get rid of the little bits of blur was tedious and annoying.

pacmanate
05-16-2013, 12:03 AM
I disagree...I didn't have to run back and forth like a chicken...I EXPLORED the map and I enjoyed it...NY, Boston and the Frontier are the only places I know my way around in by heart, because of this....

But how is running along the edge of the map fun...

SixKeys
05-16-2013, 12:06 AM
But how is running along the edge of the map fun...

Especially in the Underground. If you didn't go ALL the way to the edges of each corner, it was sometimes hard to tell which foggy part of the map was a new tunnel and which one a dead end.

dxsxhxcx
05-16-2013, 12:08 AM
I agree, also many "explorations" in AC3 only lead to frustation when there wasn't anything interesting to see in those fogged areas, just a bunch of trees with nothing special...

Assassin_M
05-16-2013, 12:12 AM
But how is running along the edge of the map fun...
Watching the Animations..

I have a fetish for Animation

GreySkellig
05-16-2013, 01:45 AM
TBH, I don't really use the veiwpoints for map reveal most of the time..I just climb them for fun. I enjoy exploring on foot. The not knowing what comes next is part of the fun. Finding cool areas etc...which I think will be even more pronounced in the upcoming game, since it has so many POIs. I initially used the veiwpoints in AC3, and I never even explored the Diamond Basin the first time around. Second playthrough, I decided to be more diligent about exploring on foot, and found one of the most beautiful game areas I've ever seen. I like the way incomplete map reveal encourages me to traverse every part of the terrain.

pacmanate
05-16-2013, 08:55 AM
TBH, I don't really use the veiwpoints for map reveal most of the time..I just climb them for fun. I enjoy exploring on foot. The not knowing what comes next is part of the fun. Finding cool areas etc...which I think will be even more pronounced in the upcoming game, since it has so many POIs. I initially used the veiwpoints in AC3, and I never even explored the Diamond Basin the first time around. Second playthrough, I decided to be more diligent about exploring on foot, and found one of the most beautiful game areas I've ever seen. I like the way incomplete map reveal encourages me to traverse every part of the terrain.

Yeah but thats not the point, I have nothing against exploration. But when it comes to running back and fourth say, at the top of New York where there is no density in buildings, you are just running in peoples gardens!

ProletariatPleb
05-16-2013, 08:57 AM
Yes please, don't want to run around like a fool to uncover all the map. That's poor attempt to encourage exploration.

Farlander1991
05-16-2013, 09:03 AM
Also, please no flags or feathers... or any collectibles like that. You make fun of them in FC3:Blood Dragon, so you KNOW they're annoying. Collectibles have to serve more gameplay purpose... (like, for example, ToKW was a step forward in that regard since you get weapon and item upgrades via finding them in chests, but I still feel that it's not enough).

And the aforementioned FC3:Blood Dragon actually tied in the collectibles with the weapon upgrade system, which is also not ideal in my opinion, but it's something.

ProletariatPleb
05-16-2013, 09:04 AM
^You will make achievement and collectible hunting 'players' cry.

Farlander1991
05-16-2013, 09:07 AM
^You will make achievement and collectible hunting 'players' cry.

Well, to hell with those guys :p

Achievements should be about achievements - challenges, different ways of plays, feats that you do, not about buying a map and going to each icon like a drone.

And I have nothing against collectibles per se. But I have something against pointless collectibles that are just all over the place and there's hundreds of them.

pacmanate
05-16-2013, 09:08 AM
Also, please no flags or feathers... or any collectibles like that. You make fun of them in FC3:Blood Dragon, so you KNOW they're annoying. Collectibles have to serve more gameplay purpose... (like, for example, ToKW was a step forward in that regard since you get weapon and item upgrades via finding them in chests, but I still feel that it's not enough).

And the aforementioned FC3:Blood Dragon actually tied in the collectibles with the weapon upgrade system, which is also not ideal in my opinion, but it's something.

I am kind of two ways with this. I don't mind getting collectables... if they give me a map. But at the same time, I agree that they should hold a purpose.

ProletariatPleb
05-16-2013, 09:11 AM
Lol and "achievements" for doing things you had to do anyway, like story missions.

Farlander1991
05-16-2013, 09:22 AM
I am kind of two ways with this. I don't mind getting collectables... if they give me a map. But at the same time, I agree that they should hold a purpose.

Btw, I actually think that Alamanac pages had a chance to be quite decent collectibles.

1. There's not many of them, just 36.
2. Each provides a small parkour challenge to get them (there was a number of almanac pages with really cool 'wind paths', I actually had fun getting after those), so it's not just go to the point on the map and bam! Done. In a sense it's like a lot of viewpoints in pre-AC3 games - little navigational challenges.
3. As you collect them, you get crafting recipes (always good when there's a crafting system involved, though I'm not getting into a discussion about the quality of the crafting system itself here)
4. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT.... the crafting recipes are for purely decorative purposes for the manor, on the floor that you actually have for the most part no reason to visit, ever. So, yeah...

pacmanate
05-16-2013, 09:39 AM
Btw, I actually think that Alamanac pages had a chance to be quite decent collectibles.

1. There's not many of them, just 36.
2. Each provides a small parkour challenge to get them (there was a number of almanac pages with really cool 'wind paths', I actually had fun getting after those), so it's not just go to the point on the map and bam! Done. In a sense it's like a lot of viewpoints in pre-AC3 games - little navigational challenges.
3. As you collect them, you get crafting recipes (always good when there's a crafting system involved, though I'm not getting into a discussion about the quality of the crafting system itself here)
4. BUUUUUUUUUUUUUT.... the crafting recipes are for purely decorative purposes for the manor, on the floor that you actually have for the most part no reason to visit, ever. So, yeah...

True, they were better than the trinkets... although they let to a special ring of DOOOOM

BandicootBeav
05-16-2013, 11:26 AM
It was a classic case of why "fix" what isn't broken. It was perfect the way it has been in the 4 previous games. I get the exploration part but to be honest there wasn't a lot to see in the frontier, having random events would of helped.

SixKeys
05-16-2013, 11:31 AM
But I like collectibles. :nonchalance: Even though I've 100%:ed almost all the games (bar AC1 and AC3), every time I replay a game I still have to get every feather, flag etc., lol. I do agree they should serve some purpose, though. The Peg Leg trinkets were a nice idea since you could unlock new missions with them. Too bad so many of them were just scattered in the laziest of places.

pacmanate
05-16-2013, 11:38 AM
But I like collectibles. :nonchalance: Even though I've 100%:ed almost all the games (bar AC1 and AC3), every time I replay a game I still have to get every feather, flag etc., lol. I do agree they should serve some purpose, though. The Peg Leg trinkets were a nice idea since you could unlock new missions with them. Too bad so many of them were just scattered in the laziest of places.

Not to mention downright odd places...

SixKeys
05-16-2013, 11:42 AM
Not to mention downright odd places...

Yeah, but that's always been the case. Feathers I can still accept, but sometimes it was weird finding a Borgia flag in some abandoned tunnel long forgotten by everyone. Or Benjamin Franklin's notes, some of which somehow flew all the way to New York.

Farlander1991
05-16-2013, 11:57 AM
Yeah, but that's always been the case. Feathers I can still accept, but sometimes it was weird finding a Borgia flag in some abandoned tunnel long forgotten by everyone. Or Benjamin Franklin's notes, some of which somehow flew all the way to New York.

Yeah, that's as mysterious as "WHO THE **** MAKES MAPS FOR ALL THESE?!?!?!?!"

Sushiglutton
05-16-2013, 02:42 PM
Yeah for the love of mercy I don't want to run around like a lawn mower. I wonder if they ever playtested this feature, and how many of the playtesters cried out in joy over how awesome it was :nonchalance:. I also want a better map in general. Revelations is the only AC game with a decent map, wonder why they changed that. You could actually see the buildings and stuff. Preferably the map should include names of the most important buildings and roads (can be turned off using a filter). That would help a lot with the sightseeing :).


But I like collectibles. :nonchalance: Even though I've 100%:ed almost all the games (bar AC1 and AC3), every time I replay a game I still have to get every feather, flag etc., lol. I do agree they should serve some purpose, though. The Peg Leg trinkets were a nice idea since you could unlock new missions with them. Too bad so many of them were just scattered in the laziest of places.

Farcry 3 handled collectibles very well imo. (http://www.gamesradar.com/far-cry-3-relic-locations-guide/):

"There are 4 different types of relics that can be found in Far Cry 3, and although each of the different types give the same experience, the type that they are defines where they can be located. The four different types of relics are Heron Relics; which are usually found high on cliffs and hills, The Boar Relics; which will usually require you to break open a stone wall or door, or a type of barrier blocking a hole or ladder—which can be done with a shotgun, grenade, RPG, etc. The Shark Relics are almost always found underwater, and finally the Spider Relics can most often found behind rocks and other objects."

If you saw some ruin, cave or high place that looked difficult to get to you knew there was some collectible there so it made you want to go investigate. All collectibles were a little bit hidden not just randomly placed. It worked very well imo.

Rugterwyper32
05-16-2013, 03:52 PM
Viewpoints, I'd either like them to do more viewpoints if they keep this style or just go back to the old style outright.
As for collectibles, I'd prefer if they gave you rewards that actually mattered. But I won't care about that if they bring back the AC1 item collected sound. I used to hunt down all of the flags simply because of that sound. There's no satisfaction in getting collectibles ever since compared to that.

lothario-da-be
05-16-2013, 04:00 PM
I would like it when you reveal the map when you walk around, but when you do viewpoints it reveals parts of the map like pre-ac3.

pacmanate
05-16-2013, 06:45 PM
I would like it when you reveal the map when you walk around, but when you do viewpoints it reveals parts of the map like pre-ac3.

Well yeah I wouldnt mind that, I just want Viewpoints to reveal everything.

Bastiaen
05-16-2013, 07:45 PM
I desperately want old style maps. The Frontiersmen Challenges to fully explore each map don't really work. I had to finish up the frontier map recently. When I pulled it up, there where missing patches everywhere, so I just chose the biggest one. I got on my horse, and rode to the middle of the patch, and it unlocked. It's ugly and tedious. I want traditional viewpoints back. Besides, I'm not "chicken running" the Carribean.

itsamea-mario
05-16-2013, 08:13 PM
Not sure i care about the blurry map shtuff, i always get all viewpoints in all the games, just cause.
However i do much prefer Viewpoints in the other games, the climb, the sounds, the scenery all that jazz. possibly due to a few things, some of which can't be helped, bothe the buildings and the scenery are pretty boring for the most part in AC3, you might get a decent looking view at certain times of day, or in the frontier, but even then, nothing to AC1 and AC2 etc. And the buildings, AC3 sported a variety of dull redbrick or wooden "towers" mostly churches, you know, that colonial style of architecture which is really just so uninteresting. and the fact that connor just shoots up any structure adds to the boredom, there's no lateral movement, no path finding, just hold R1/RT and go up. the frontier is slightly more interesting with the one tree design repeated about 5 times and the occasional cliff or some such. Though i will admit, Florence had it's fair share of identical towers.
Then the animation, the way connor stands up, it would be okay if most of the viewpoints weren't on the top of poles with a diameter of about three inches, that standing animation would have worked far better on the beams that made up the majority of viewpoints in previous games. And then the sound, i guess it's okay, it fits with the rest of the soundtrack, but i still prefer AC1's and i can't really remember AC2/B/R's.

GreySkellig
05-16-2013, 09:28 PM
I will definitely agree that most of the viewpoints in AC3 were substandard. Part of that is the limitations of the architecture, although they still could have made the climbs more difficult/varied and the views themselves (at least in the Frontier) a bit more interesting. The only ones that really impressed me were the lighthouse and the one overlooking Diamond Basin.

LUR21
05-17-2013, 03:38 AM
I would rather old style viewpoints. But they could probably do it both ways. Let the viewpoints in total reveal the whole map but for the people who like to clear the map by exploring can just avoid the viewpoints and reveal as they explore.

pacmanate
05-17-2013, 11:49 AM
I would rather old style viewpoints. But they could probably do it both ways. Let the viewpoints in total reveal the whole map but for the people who like to clear the map by exploring can just avoid the viewpoints and reveal as they explore.

Once again, have no problem with this. It makes sense that you reveal the map when you walk on an area, but for viewpoints to miss out parts of the map... makes it ugly.

Farlander1991
05-17-2013, 11:51 AM
Yeah. ToKW DLC maps are much more nice to look at precisely because there's no missing patches there :) (though there's also no viewpoints, but still...) I actually prefer to think that's a sign that AC4 is not going to have a 'patchy map discovery' either.

rob.davies2014
05-19-2013, 04:28 PM
I liked how, in AC1, you could synchronise from anywhere on top of the viewpoint and not just from the beam which juts out. I'd like to see that return because it looked a lot cooler and saved time.

MasterAssasin84
05-19-2013, 04:35 PM
Definately i agree bring back old style view points !!

Dont get me wrong i really loved exploring the frontier but i would like to see the old style viewpoints back.

TinyTemplar
05-19-2013, 05:14 PM
Haha, I've never noticed that my map isn't fully revealed...

AssassinHMS
05-19-2013, 05:18 PM
Definately i agree bring back old style view points !!

Dont get me wrong i really loved exploring the frontier but i would like to see the old style viewpoints back.

What did you find while exploring the Frontier?





On topic: I'd also like the "old" style of viewpoints.

Rugterwyper32
05-19-2013, 06:16 PM
Definately i agree bring back old style view points !!

Dont get me wrong i really loved exploring the frontier but i would like to see the old style viewpoints back.

I think another one of the issues the Frontier has when it comes to viewpoints is the dire lack of them in some areas. I think that not even the old viewpoint system would be enough in the case of the Frontier, there's a bunch of areas with no viewpoints at all.
I still believe that the Frontier could have been scaled down, there are areas like Packanack that you don't ever go to unless you do a few side missions, and you don't ever see them again.

SixKeys
05-19-2013, 06:29 PM
I think another one of the issues the Frontier has when it comes to viewpoints is the dire lack of them in some areas. I think that not even the old viewpoint system would be enough in the case of the Frontier, there's a bunch of areas with no viewpoints at all.
I still believe that the Frontier could have been scaled down, there are areas like Packanack that you don't ever go to unless you do a few side missions, and you don't ever see them again.

Indeed. It's a shame as Packanack is my favorite area of the Frontier.

twenty_glyphs
05-19-2013, 10:37 PM
I hated AC3's viewpoint/map unfogging change as well. It didn't encourage exploration, it only encouraged me to obsess over the patches of unfogged area on the map and then run around like an idiot to make the map look right. It was tedious and not fun at all. I like the idea of revealing the map when you walk around, but still using viewpoints to reveal large areas of the map like before AC3. Syncing all the viewpoints should reveal the whole map.

I've always found that the best way to encourage exploration for me is to put collectibles in interesting parts of the map and then encourage me to go there with an icon or some other hint. It's also smart to put mission markers or side missions in areas of the map to get me to visit those spots. Those techniques have often led to fun experiences when I found interesting out of the way places.

As for the types of collectibles, flags and feathers were definitely boring. By the time you get them all in AC2 and Brotherhood, the rewards were almost pointless to me because I had almost finished everything in the game. Glyphs and Codex pages in AC2 were great because they were their own side story, with each one feeling like a reward because of the new story tidbits. Glyphs provided a nice change of pace in gameplay. Riddler trophies and riddles in Arkham City were nice because they presented fresh challenges and unlocked a side mission at a regular rate. My favorite types of collectibles have always involved a change of pace in gameplay rather than just being some object you have to walk through to collect.