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Wolfmeister1010
05-12-2013, 04:40 AM
Hello everyone! It is Wolfmeister here, and I am asking for your opinion on a recent thought I had.*

I try my best to be as non biased at all and I value all of your opinions as well, whether they be with me, or completely the opposite of mine.

Thanks.


A lot of people said that Assassin's Creed 3 was a disappointment, and I believe I know why. I believe that AC3 took one step forward and two back.
AC3 too a step forward in the series with brilliant naval combat, upgraded combat, simplified freerunning, and a full seasonal and weather system, but took two steps back due to many bugs, an empty feeling frontier, a useless to barely useful homestead and trading/crafting system, a lazy and buggy guild system, ridiculous missions structure and linearity, and overall lack of polish.

I think that a pattern that has arose in AC games is that ubisoft always attempts to bring new systems that don't always work into the series without fixing the ones that have problems. For example, stealth and the assassins guild system were great in Brotherhood, but we're left completely unattended to by the time AC3 was released, because they were focused on creating the frontier and NEW stuff to the game. I believe Ubisoft should stop just throwing new things into the games right away, and focus on perfecting the base game and all of it's previous problems before even starting to focus on putting new things into the game. I also think that Ubisoft got very lazy with AC3. Example: AC3 was originally supposed to have random encounters, but it was dropped for some unknown reason. Example 2: "Oh, we didn't create an ambient background music track? Oh just forget about it nobody will care." Example 3: "wow, we just finished creating the frontier, and now we need to just fill it with activities, enemies, and stuff. Hmmmm, but making the frontier was haaaaarrrddd, so I'm just going to put a few pockets of guards here and there and call it a game. We can also have a convoy appear once every few weeks for a player so they have variety." *Example 4: when Completing a quest like delivering a letter or giving food to a hungry person in TOKW, there is no actually animation of Connor giving the item. Or any interaction, and little to none dialogue. All these small missions should play out like how they did in the AC3 E3 demo, in which Connor actually had an interaction with a butcher at a camp, gives him the meat, and gets the reward, and a thank you.*

Ubisoft has lost its sense of polish. How can freeroam be good when there is no music, no one and nothing to do in the frontier and a lack of polish?

Before Ubisoft even CONSIDERS thinking about all the new systems that will be put in AC4, they need to sit down, and fix all of the problems that are still there:

1. Lack of stealth
2. Atrocious enemy AI
3. Limited freeroam and replay value.

After those things are fixed and upgraded, then Ubisoft should feel free to work on the new things in Black Flag.

Also, In order to improve the game, Ubisoft needs to work 100% on everything in the game, and focus on the little details. In AC3, it seems like everything in the game was completed just to the point of it being playable and working. However, videogame developers should complete a certain system in a game, and then go back and refine and revise and perfect it 5 times over!!!!! Then there are tons of little details that get put in like extra dialogue, NPC animations, sounds, objects, people doing jobs, and activities that get immersed into the world that make the game so much better. The only part of AC3 that seemed to really focus on the little details was the naval section of the game.

I think that ubisoft was so worried about the naval section, and so determined to impress the skeptical fans, that they focused most of their efforts on perfecting the naval section. It turned out to be one of the few memorable parts of the game for a variety of reasons.

1. They perfected the environment by making the water, islands, and weather stunningly beautiful.*
2. They worked extremely hard into perfecting ship to ship combat and physics.
3. Most Importantly, they went back and added all sorts of little details to the section. Have you ever walked around your ship and even seen all the little details, or watched your crew in action while sailing? It is unbelievable! The captain shouts at the crew to work, each crew amber has an individual job, and actual objects to interact with that react to the characters' touch. You can grab onto a hook and propel yourself to the top of the boat. If you jump into the ocean, the crew members yell "man overboard!" when sailing, the crew members run across the deck and react to things like cannon fire and rain and wind, and climb up the masts and nets and open the hatch and climb below the deck and carry out barrels of gunpowder.they most appealing part of the little details is that they don't NEED TO BE IN THERE. There is only one opportunity to use the mast ascending hook in the game, yet it is STILL there, because it is just a little detail that makes the game so much more immersive. There is no other place in the game where AC3 feels so real, connected, and polished, and overachieved, other than watching the citizens of the homestead interact with each other and do jobs.*

AC3 had the potential to be amazing, but unfortunately, everything in the game except a few shining parts just received a single coat of paint, just enough to work, while it should have received to coats, and an extra polish. All the little details like NPC activities, dialogue and interactions and graphical details are like the garnish on a dish. They don't change the actual gameplay whatsoever, yet they make the game such a joy to play. I hope that AC4 is polished much more. I hope that it is made like this:

1. Fix all the remaining problems present in the previous games, like improving stealth and fixing enemy AI
2. Add new systems to game, like naval freeroam, random encounters, and more.
3. Go back and add more details, like some extra side missions here, an extra tavern there, increase crowd chatter here, improve sound effects there, improve enemy reaction timing, make pirate recruits more realistic, maybe add another little village into this island, maybe add some flags into this part of the city, maybe increase resolution of windows, maybe improve side quest dialogue, maybe increase physics of dropped weapons, maybe program more varieties of citizen outfits...... I could literally go on and on and on and on and on.*

All of those little details that seem unnecessary eventually add up and create an extra layer of polish that can act as a game's backbone whenever it struggles with a part of the game.*

Ubisoft needs to pick up its game, and not just work on games until the are playable, but work on them until the game has overachieved its original polish and structure. *The little details, whether the be graphical, gameplay wise, or sound wise Can make or break any game with potential.*

Thank you all for reading.

MetalCreed
05-12-2013, 05:01 AM
Loooooll

fix the core mechanics, Ubisoft then talk little details.

No wonder this series keeps on going downhill after AC2's release.

Assassin_M
05-12-2013, 05:02 AM
Loooooll

fix the core mechanics, Ubisoft then talk little details.

No wonder this series keeps on going downhill after *AC1's release.
Fixed

Wolfmeister1010
05-12-2013, 05:07 AM
Fixed

Lol

roostersrule2
05-12-2013, 05:08 AM
FixedAgreed, AC1 is the greatest game of all time.

Assassin_M
05-12-2013, 05:11 AM
Agreed, AC1 is the greatest game of all time.
You sarcastic ball of wool

roostersrule2
05-12-2013, 05:12 AM
You sarcastic ball of woolThat's Mr ball of wool to you.

STDlyMcStudpants
05-12-2013, 05:25 AM
Im a visual person, so its all beauty...if a game is **** and looks like a moving painting..i can forgive the game being so horrible lol
There are people that play games for the challenge
Im just a casual gamer that plays for the experience.
Id be 100% fine if there wa a game that you did nothing but explore and dig up treasure with no killing..or a wilderness traveling survival game with the occasional threat every 2 hours or so lol..perfection ;D

Assassin_M
05-12-2013, 05:40 AM
That's Mr ball of wool to you.
Still harmless...

I think we know by now that Ubisoft is pretty awesome with little details. Cloth physics, react-able grass...etc and new introductions to the series work to an extent...The Naval was awesome and well received, the Brotherhood system too...what they need to do is bringing back the Assassin...Investigating and planning (I wont speak about stealth, because it only needs to happen more with a tweeked AI)

ever since the "repetitive" label that was put on AC I`s system, Ubisoft avoided ANYTHING remotely AC I like a plague....even the freedom -_-, all they needed to do was create MORE for the system, not bloody ditch it...I didn't want to go around playing carnival games, I dont want to be shouting "INSIEME PER LA VITTORIA", I dont want to have gang wars and I dont want to be sitting on an effing horse going back and forth saying FIRE for a whole 10 minutes dammit....

We were sailors, Nobles, businessmen, landlords, brawlers, hunters, explorers, but we were never the ASSASSIN except in AC I...A sailor captains ships (greatly done) a noble is suave (Awesome) a businessman entrepreneurs (Great) a landlord owns and cares for land (tick) a brawler fights (there) a Hunter hunts (Yup) Explorers go about (did) and Assassins investigate and plan (uuuuhh)

All it needs in my eyes..

roostersrule2
05-12-2013, 05:47 AM
Still harmless...

I think we know by now that Ubisoft is pretty awesome with little details. Cloth physics, react-able grass...etc and new introductions to the series work to an extent...The Naval was awesome and well received, the Brotherhood system too...what they need to do is bringing back the Assassin...Investigating and planning (I wont speak about stealth, because it only needs to happen more with a tweeked AI)

ever since the "repetitive" label that was put on AC I`s system, Ubisoft avoided ANYTHING remotely AC I like a plague....even the freedom -_-, all they needed to do was create MORE for the system, not bloody ditch it...I didn't want to go around playing carnival games, I dont want to be shouting "INSIEME PER LA VITTORIA", I dont want to have gang wars and I dont want to be sitting on an effing horse going back and forth saying FIRE for a whole 10 minutes dammit....

We were sailors, Nobles, businessmen, landlords, brawlers, hunters, explorers, but we were never the ASSASSIN except in AC I...A sailor captains ships (greatly done) a noble is suave (Awesome) a businessman entrepreneurs (Great) a landlord owns and cares for land (tick) a brawler fights (there) a Hunter hunts (Yup) Explorers go about (did) and Assassins investigate and plan (uuuuhh)

All it needs in my eyes..You're crying and nah AC1 is boring as ****.

Wolfmeister1010
05-12-2013, 06:07 AM
You're crying and nah AC1 is boring as ****.

I disagree one hundred percent
Mr sarcastic ball of wool man.

While some parts of AC1 were repetitive, the investigation parts, like beating up people, eavesdropping and especially the pickpocket parts were so fun and made me feel totally immersed in the Syrian underworld. While AC1 can be repetitive at times, I think that it has the best stealth of the entire series

roostersrule2
05-12-2013, 06:13 AM
I disagree one hundred percent
Mr sarcastic ball of wool man.

While some parts of AC1 were repetitive, the investigation parts, like beating up people, eavesdropping and especially the pickpocket parts were so fun and made me feel totally immersed in the Syrian underworld. While AC1 can be repetitive at times, I think that it has the best stealth of the entire seriesNah, you're wrong.

Assassin_M
05-12-2013, 08:04 AM
Nah, you're wrong.
I will mount your head where my tail used to be

roostersrule2
05-12-2013, 08:10 AM
I will mount your head where my tail used to beYou want to be mounted from behind?

Assassin_M
05-12-2013, 08:11 AM
You want to be mounted from behind?
That depends on where you think my tail is located...

roostersrule2
05-12-2013, 08:12 AM
That depends on where you think my tail is located...Well it's been cut off, so?

Assassin_M
05-12-2013, 08:14 AM
Well it's been cut off, so?
And......I need to repair things :|

roostersrule2
05-12-2013, 08:20 AM
And......I need to repair things :|I think you may have problem with it, if you know what I mean?

Assassin_M
05-12-2013, 08:20 AM
I think you may have problem with it, if you know what I mean?
It was fine a moment ago....in the toilet

roostersrule2
05-12-2013, 08:23 AM
It was fine a moment ago....in the toiletThe toilet, that's a new one.

Sushiglutton
05-12-2013, 10:09 AM
Agree with some, but not all. Overall I agree that AC3 was overambitious and they tried to do too many things which meant some important ones weren't good enough. Like you say enemy AI is one such super important thing that isn't as good as it needs to be. This being said I don't think AC lacks in terms of detail and effort. The amount of man-hours spent on this game is ridiculous and it shows. Calling the devs lazy is kind of silly imo. That they were overambitious and tried to add too much is kind of a positive thing :).

montagemik
05-12-2013, 02:02 PM
Agree with some, but not all. Overall I agree that AC3 was overambitious and they tried to do too many things which meant some important ones weren't good enough. Like you say enemy AI is one such super important thing that isn't as good as it needs to be. This being said I don't think AC lacks in terms of detail and effort. The amount of man-hours spent on this game is ridiculous and it shows. Calling the devs lazy is kind of silly imo. That they were overambitious and tried to add too much is kind of a positive thing :).

Staying within the limits of the consoles this game was supposedly designed for would've been a smarter move .............
Being overambitious & pushing everything in the console to it's limits meant hardly anything appeared to be implemented to it's best potential .

The average Joe is left with the impression everything was simply rushed or poorly made & half hearted . ( which in a Series/ franchise - Is never a positive thing )

Farlander1991
05-12-2013, 02:31 PM
Well, it's a double-edged sword.

On one hand, ambition is good. It leads to pushing the boundaries and to innovation. On another hand, it's a gamble - things can (and will) go wrong and sometimes the result does not meet your expectations.

AC1 and AC3 were the most ambitious titles in the franchise. Both games are flawed (and as much as I LOVE AC1 and the way it's designed, and how awesome it feels to play without a HUD, it still fail to meet the goals of its ambitions), but at the same time, thanks to their ambition both games have paved the way to more polished games (and yes, we don't know if AC4 is going to be polished until we see it for ourselves, but there are high more chances for it now since the devs have something to base on).

For all things that could've been better in AC3, here's the things that really wouldn't be possible if devs weren't ambitious:
1. Tree-running (it would be too easy to just continue to stick with climbable buildings only, but they pushed the boundaries and I don't think a lot of people realize how much of a daunting and challenging task this was).
2. Incredible animation quality (I think we all agree that animation in AC3 is outstanding, and it can only get better from here, AND it won't take as much time anymore since there's already a huge foundation)
3. Naval battles (you may not agree with the stylistic direction that naval battles brought both to AC3 and will bring to a much more naval-focused AC4, but Black Flag wouldn't have been possible as a game without this, and I'm personally very curious in what experience the devs will bring us thanks to AC3)
4. Not to mention the AnvilNext engine itself which I'm sure Ubisoft is going to find very useful not just for AC titles, but for other games too (just like the Anvil engine was used for the newer PoP games and the new Rainbow Six title and something else).
Plus other smaller but still pretty cool things, all of which can help make the franchise better and more awesome in the future, even though AC3 itself might seem underwhelming because the devs failed to fully meet all their ambitious goals.

AssassinHMS
05-12-2013, 04:47 PM
I agree with most of the ideas in this thread. The little details have been forgotten and replaced by the huge things (like naval battles, a huge world full of emptiness, tons of useless weapons and equipment,...) It's quantity over quality.
However that isn't the only problem. All this ambition and effort didn't make the franchise evolve at all, it did quite the opposite and turned it into a mess, but the main problem with AC3 wasn't the hype or the ambition alone, the main problem was the lack of direction, of focus. Before AC3 came out I was expecting the devs to improve the core mecanics, to focus on the "assassin feel" (open ended missions, conspiracies, breathtaking assassinations...). When I finally got to play the game I wasn't disapointed because I was expecting an outstanding game like the one displayed in the trailers, I was extremely disapointed because I expected an AC game, a game that focused on the little things, on the "assassin feel" (even though previous games lacked some of those aspects such as open ended missions they still had that "assassin feel").
The devs weren't simply ambitious, they despised the franchise by focusing on features that don't have anything to do with it and were introduced to appeal a larger audience, to sell. And while they used that time to improve these additions, they ignored the rest.
I agree that the devs were indeed ambitious but they were also mercenaries.

montagemik
05-12-2013, 05:04 PM
As much as i enjoyed the Naval elements in AC3 .................. I can't help feeling AC3 could've benefitted far more with those resources / disk space used to improve the land based game mechanics & environments more.

Then perhaps i wouldn't have this feeling that Naval content was just shoe-horned into AC3 as a way of testing it's popularity for AC4.

Sushiglutton
05-12-2013, 05:41 PM
Staying within the limits of the consoles this game was supposedly designed for would've been a smarter move .............
Being overambitious & pushing everything in the console to it's limits meant hardly anything appeared to be implemented to it's best potential .

The average Joe is left with the impression everything was simply rushed or poorly made & half hearted . ( which in a Series/ franchise - Is never a positive thing )

I agree that less ambition in some ways would likely have resulted in a better game. My point was just that it's a bit unfair to be angry on the devs or call them lazy just because they tried too much and couldn't polish everything as much as they should. I mean they took a lot of risks and some didn't pay off. But that they have high ambitions and want to deliver new things is something positive that they deserve praise rather than anger for.

rileypoole1234
05-12-2013, 05:47 PM
All I want is a stable frame rate. None of the updates have fixed it for me. People and animals also still pop in right in front of me. I still play it though, it's a fun game.

Rugterwyper32
05-12-2013, 05:55 PM
I agree that less ambition in some ways would likely have resulted in a better game. My point was just that it's a bit unfair to be angry on the devs or call them lazy just because they tried too much and couldn't polish everything as much as they should. I mean they took a lot of risks and some didn't pay off. But that they have high ambitions and want to deliver new things is something positive that they deserve praise rather than anger for.

I agree with this. And there's this one thing: If they don't try the new things they've thought of now, if they don't aim for that ambition, then what happens? The next game ends up being a polished version of the next one. Same happens with the next one. And in the end, we might get one extremely polished game with the basics well done, but it'll have gotten stagnant. The fact they're trying something new is good, it mixes up the series and avoids that it stagnates and becomes boring. Sure, some things might not end up as good, some might even bad additions and taken out next game (Den Defense), but they're trying something. What works can be kept, what doesn't can be canned or improved depending on why it didn't work. And in the end you can have additions that become an essential part of the series, like I feel treerunning will be. That must have been development hell, but man did it pay off.

AssassinHMS
05-12-2013, 06:48 PM
I agree with this. And there's this one thing: If they don't try the new things they've thought of now, if they don't aim for that ambition, then what happens? The next game ends up being a polished version of the next one. Same happens with the next one. And in the end, we might get one extremely polished game with the basics well done, but it'll have gotten stagnant. The fact they're trying something new is good, it mixes up the series and avoids that it stagnates and becomes boring. Sure, some things might not end up as good, some might even bad additions and taken out next game (Den Defense), but they're trying something. What works can be kept, what doesn't can be canned or improved depending on why it didn't work. And in the end you can have additions that become an essential part of the series, like I feel treerunning will be. That must have been development hell, but man did it pay off.

They should be concerned about getting the basics right (the core mecanics , the atmosphere, the assassin feel) rather than adding new ambitious features. Besides they should aim for ambitious additions that have something to do with the whole assassin's creed thing instead of naval battles. Finally the ambition should be a matter of quality not quantity. If they do things right the series won't stagnate, however if they keep following the path of mindless ambition and turning the franchise into something it's not it will die.

pacmanate
05-12-2013, 07:01 PM
I don;t care if the wind affects the rain, if leaves flutter around, if the character has facial expressions.

1. LETS NOT HAVE DUMB AS **** AI
2. LETS HAVE A GOOD STORY.

Sushiglutton
05-12-2013, 07:06 PM
They should be concerned about getting the basics right (the core mecanics , the atmosphere, the assassin feel) rather than adding new ambitious features. Besides they should aim for ambitious additions that have something to do with the whole assassin's creed thing instead of naval battles. Finally the ambition should be a matter of quality not quantity. If they do things right the series won't stagnate, however if they keep following the path of mindless ambition and turning the franchise into something it's not it will die.

Just to be clear, I 100% agree with this post. Was more thinking of the way this criticism is formulated (calling devs lazy, greedy, or evil etc ispretty dumb). But everything in this post is spot on in terms of what went wrong imo.

Spider_Sith9
05-12-2013, 07:36 PM
rooster really hates AC1. What's of the point of investigating a target if that's an illusion now? Sacrifice being an Assassin because of repetition and boredom?

Rugterwyper32
05-12-2013, 07:55 PM
They should be concerned about getting the basics right (the core mecanics , the atmosphere, the assassin feel) rather than adding new ambitious features. Besides they should aim for ambitious additions that have something to do with the whole assassin's creed thing instead of naval battles. Finally the ambition should be a matter of quality not quantity. If they do things right the series won't stagnate, however if they keep following the path of mindless ambition and turning the franchise into something it's not it will die.

I agree with this, admittedly. But at the same time, there'd be a point where they would eventually need to add new stuff as they'd reach the point where it would be just minor improvements after so much polish, and while it's been hit or miss, they get some hits that actually would work perfectly with the cores of the series and now that they have them I feel they should scale back.
Personally, I feel that naval should have been a new IP to try it out and maybe combine it with Assassin's Creed later on (as Black Flag could very well turn out to have a good mix of a great naval game and a great assassin game if done right, and the setting just wouldn't work without naval if you ask me). What I don't want is the rare few mission gimmicks, but if they actually add a new gameplay mechanic that works with the era then make it something worthwhile like naval battles.
They have the pieces there. AC3 had all the pieces to make for a great assassin game, but the direction was all over the place. If the focus had been on polishing main elements, mission design and they had made naval a new IP (mainly to save space for other elements that ended up being cut) then I think it could have worked perfectly. They tried making a lot of stuff but they didn't get the chance to polish it, rather than making something more compact and polishing it to perfection.

lothario-da-be
05-12-2013, 08:46 PM
I 100% agree with the OP, details are very important in open world games too make the world feel more alive, but i fear they still have some work on core mechanics.

GreySkellig
05-13-2013, 06:01 AM
I am a huge fan of the detail in AC3. As a history student, I noticed some really great pieces of work. (The cemeteries of the time had very distinctive headstone designs, so much so that in a class I took we actually identified where and when a stone was from to within a span of a decade and a radius of a hundred miles just from the design. Ubisoft nailed this.) I love the little things, whether those be side conversations, architectural nuances, the emphasis on Dutch, Scotch and German accents in New York, or even just little animations of daily activities. These made the game world feel more alive than any other in the series, and I'd love to see that taken even further in AC:BF. BUT I think that there are always bigger concerns of story and gameplay that really need to come first.

roostersrule2
05-13-2013, 08:52 AM
rooster really hates AC1. What's of the point of investigating a target if that's an illusion now? Sacrifice being an Assassin because of repetition and boredom?I love AC1, just like M loves AC2, we just amuse ourselves by getting into arguments.