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Isensol
04-23-2013, 12:22 AM
Well should it be done?
Assassin’s Creed 1 was based rather strongly on the idea of reliving the life of an ancestor as close as possible a he lived his life it (1st one being Altiar) This meant reliving the life of an assassin you were punished for breaking the creed and for not following the training. Training such as

blending into a crowd and hiding in plain sight (social stealth) .

Striking only when ready and not causing open conflict.

Disappearing quickly into the crowd once done to not cause panic.

Do not kill civilians. (in future Ac titles is almost impossible lest you throw a bomb at them)
Ect~

Anyhow we see in future games past Ac1 that these things go on the back burner when health is not tied to synching with an ancestor. Only at certain points does it matter if you follow these assassin ideals. And instead after the 2nd one do we see more concern towards re-living the life of an ancestor in the form of arbitrary and play-style limiting objectives such as “do not touch water” or “get there in 3 minutes” . All the tenants of the creed and the assassin training are more of guidelines now and staying in tune with an ancestor is limited to things that don’t actually effect if you can stay within your ancestors memory.
All I’m saying is the synch tied to health is a great way to re-enforce the stealth elements of the game and to make it so the player feels like an assassin and not a particularly deadly tourist. It also added to the narrative a little since it helped aid the idea that Desmond(or whomever is in an animus) had to get comfortable being his ancestor and couldn’t simply jump to any memory at any given time. It also re-enforced why bleeding effect would occur; Since the person is tearing down his walls to help re-live the memory more accurately he already is blurring his normal state of mind with that of his ancestor.

*shrug* I could go on but I guess you get the point. I for the record do think it should come back. Though I guess Ubi could simply say “well abstergo fixed the animus so now you can hop between lives and not have to follow their actions”

Also for any stupid typos or moronic word usage or just simply garbled writing I apologize, I wrote this on a whim :)

Assassin_M
04-23-2013, 12:35 AM
As long as there`s no medicine..if Sync was health, points, squares, regeneration, a monkey...i`ll be fine

Isensol
04-23-2013, 12:55 AM
Well medicine was a bad idea (my opinion) and only added because they treated health as purely as health. Though I must confess I'd be happy if the synch tied even more into gameplay then it did into the 1st such as causing open conflict at random would slowly sap your health over time until you broke line of site. Though that's just me and prob be a step to far.

Assassin_M
04-23-2013, 12:59 AM
Well medicine was a bad idea (my opinion) and only added because they treated health as purely as health. Though I must confess I'd be happy if the synch tied even more into gameplay then it did into the 1st such as causing open conflict at random would slowly sap your health over time until you broke line of site. Though that's just me and prob be a step to far.
I agree and I actually like this idea....it sounds pretty good, but how about this...so as to not limit freedom...if you end up in combat, you wont start loosing health immedietly, only if you`re hit once, then health starts decreasing...and it keeps decreasing until you regain control....

Isensol
04-23-2013, 01:10 AM
I agree and I actually like this idea....it sounds pretty good, but how about this...so as to not limit freedom...if you end up in combat, you wont start loosing health immedietly, only if you`re hit once, then health starts decreasing...and it keeps decreasing until you regain control....

That could work, though it would be awkward and make combat rather frustrating.. I'm sure if Ubi desired they could come up with something~
But they seem determined to turn Ac into an action game with some slight stealth mechanics rather then the other way around.

Also must say would love some more feedback from others XD but I guess this topic is rather new and might not grab people's interest.

Assassin_M
04-23-2013, 01:13 AM
That could work, though it would be awkward and make combat rather frustrating.. I'm sure if Ubi desired they could come up with something~
But they seem determined to turn Ac into an action game with some slight stealth mechanics rather then the other way around.

Also must say would love some more feedback from others XD but I guess this topic is rather new and might not grab people's interest.
Nah it`s just at around this time, everyone is most likely not logged on.... don't worry...others will give you feedback soon enough;)

Isensol
04-23-2013, 01:21 AM
Nah it`s just at around this time, everyone is most likely not logged on.... don't worry...others will give you feedback soon enough;)

yeah it's true this is a dead zone for posters, I'm not exactly new to the forum I prefer creeping then engaging so I generally know how it goe shere but it's still "meh" to not have multiple discussions on a topic of interest *shrug*

The thing is with the health system as is atm I think it would make for combat to be much more engaging since if a fight is to prolonged you as an assassin are increasing danger of being "discovered" aka de-syncing, this could also merit the swift insta kill combat we have currently since an assassin would have to focus on killing quickly and moving on and if it does keep going it's not his health he worries about but his profile... thus re-enforcing the idea that health isn't just health but how well you step into your ancestors shoes :D

Assassin_M
04-23-2013, 01:25 AM
yeah it's true this is a dead zone for posters, I'm not exactly new to the forum I prefer creeping then engaging so I generally know how it goe shere but it's still "meh" to not have multiple discussions on a topic of interest *shrug*

The thing is with the health system as is atm I think it would make for combat to be much more engaging since if a fight is to prolonged you as an assassin are increasing danger of being "discovered" aka de-syncing, this could also merit the swift insta kill combat we have currently since an assassin would have to focus on killing quickly and moving on and if it does keep going it's not his health he worries about but his profile... thus re-enforcing the idea that health isn't just health but how well you step into your ancestors shoes :D
Combat should remain the way it is, if it becomes restricting like you`re instantly desynced if you`re in open combat, then it will greatly limit freedom. both combat and stealth should be balanced in terms of difficulty, so that playstyles can exist, if Combat becomes tedious, then we`v created another problem, Combat just needs challenge

rob.davies2014
04-23-2013, 01:33 AM
They may be able to bring it back now because we're back with Abstergo's Animi. It was Rebecca's "Baby" that removed synch for health and medicine. I'd rather synch returned. I was replaying AC1 the other day and realised how much I enjoyed the feel of following the Creed to synchronise with the ancestor.

Isensol
04-23-2013, 02:03 AM
Combat should remain the way it is, if it becomes restricting like you`re instantly desynced if you`re in open combat, then it will greatly limit freedom. both combat and stealth should be balanced in terms of difficulty, so that playstyles can exist, if Combat becomes tedious, then we`v created another problem, Combat just needs challenge

Think you might want to re-read what I typed since I was going off your suggestion and to summarize what I said ~
if the open combat goes on for to long your health starts to drain because your ancestor would have already finished or escaped because he/she didn't want to risk discovery. because as per the Ac1 idea your health is tied to how synched you are to your ancestor.

Assassin_M
04-23-2013, 02:08 AM
Think you might want to re-read what I typed since I was going off your suggestion and to summarize what I said ~
if the open combat goes on for to long your health starts to drain because your ancestor would have already finished or escaped because he/she didn't want to risk discovery. because as per the Ac1 idea your health is tied to how synched you are to your ancestor.
And I didn't disagree with that....I was just expanding..

Isensol
04-23-2013, 02:10 AM
They may be able to bring it back now because we're back with Abstergo's Animi. It was Rebecca's "Baby" that removed synch for health and medicine. I'd rather synch returned. I was replaying AC1 the other day and realised how much I enjoyed the feel of following the Creed to synchronise with the ancestor.

hrm would make sense but I doubt they will :/


And I didn't disagree with that....I was just expanding..

must have misread

SixKeys
04-23-2013, 02:32 AM
I'm not a big fan of synchronization being so limiting. THe way I see it, the way I as the player choose to play the game, that's how the ancestor performed the mission. I hate the idea that there's a "wrong" way to do things. I've been replaying AC2 and having a lot of fun replaying missions that I've always done a certain way (like poisoning a target unseen) and doing them in a completely different way (like bench-assassinating them or shooting them from a distance). It's great not having a "full synch FAILED" message popping up immediately afterwards.

I feel the same way about health vs. synchronization. It feels silly that you lose a bit of synch with your ancestor if you fall off a tall building, for example. Like it's impossible that your ancestor ever slipped up and fell. A health bar is necessary for obvious reasons, but I think it should be separate from synchronization. It would be way too limiting for player freedom to punish them for starting a fight. After the main story is finished, fighting guards is usually all there is left to do when free-roaming.

Isensol
04-23-2013, 06:26 AM
I'm not a big fan of synchronization being so limiting. THe way I see it, the way I as the player choose to play the game, that's how the ancestor performed the mission. I hate the idea that there's a "wrong" way to do things. I've been replaying AC2 and having a lot of fun replaying missions that I've always done a certain way (like poisoning a target unseen) and doing them in a completely different way (like bench-assassinating them or shooting them from a distance). It's great not having a "full synch FAILED" message popping up immediately afterwards.

I feel the same way about health vs. synchronization. It feels silly that you lose a bit of synch with your ancestor if you fall off a tall building, for example. Like it's impossible that your ancestor ever slipped up and fell. A health bar is necessary for obvious reasons, but I think it should be separate from synchronization. It would be way too limiting for player freedom to punish them for starting a fight. After the main story is finished, fighting guards is usually all there is left to do when free-roaming.

Well idea is that your ancestor was to skilled to simply fall off, but I see where your coming from it's a balancing act and see how it is atm? I rather have the former then what we have currently, hopefully ACBF will get it down better but I don't have much hope, it'll most likely very loose (read lazy) version of what we see in Ac3 that simply allows us to do whatever with no challenge attached. As for the combat synch it's just an idea, and as for it being in end game it would be handled like Ac1 where you could kill civilians instead you can have as much open combat as you please. *shrug*

pacmanate
04-23-2013, 06:46 AM
They may be able to bring it back now because we're back with Abstergo's Animi. It was Rebecca's "Baby" that removed synch for health and medicine. I'd rather synch returned. I was replaying AC1 the other day and realised how much I enjoyed the feel of following the Creed to synchronise with the ancestor.

True but they all got Animus updates

waynedavies89
04-23-2013, 09:49 AM
I woukd love it if they went back to synchronization, the way it was done back in AC1, I honesty didnt see a problem with the original medicine though, it got out of control when you could have 15 of them. if you have 3-5 to heal yourself while your out in the world, on a random island or at sea, ye i wouldn't complain

xx-pyro
04-23-2013, 09:55 AM
No it was limiting and stupid quite frankly. They just need to make combat overall harder, and make stealth a more viable approach to the game.

Sushiglutton
04-23-2013, 10:01 AM
I thought the new health system in AC3 was a substantial improvement. I was no fan of repairing armor or buying medicine. The only thing I would tweak about AC3's system is that health should not regenerate at all until you are anonymous. That way when your health is low you must run away and hide to avoid death. Since your health doesn't regenerate during the chase I think it could lead to some intense moments :). Once you have succesfully hidden (or killed all enemies in a particular fight) health should regenerate instantly as it does in AC3.

Isensol
04-23-2013, 06:16 PM
No it was limiting and stupid quite frankly. They just need to make combat overall harder, and make stealth a more viable approach to the game.

I really don't see how the old system was limiting, I mean if you made the arguement with my proposed open conflict idea was limit I'd agree but the old system was hardly limiting, what's limiting is the "optional" objectives that flash in bright red if you failed not to touch water, or drop down kill the only grenadier on a ship.

And yes they really do need to change the formula they seem to be doing now with action and little stealth (if really any)

And if it were to be limiting I rather have it then what I pointed out, and come on the idea was to re-live your ancestors memories as he experienced them... *shrug*


I thought the new health system in AC3 was a substantial improvement. I was no fan of repairing armor or buying medicine. The only thing I would tweak about AC3's system is that health should not regenerate at all until you are anonymous. That way when your health is low you must run away and hide to avoid death. Since your health doesn't regenerate during the chase I think it could lead to some intense moments :). Once you have succesfully hidden (or killed all enemies in a particular fight) health should regenerate instantly as it does in AC3.

The health system is a bit of an improvement because it feels more ... "organic" and that you take less hits to die. As for what you want isn't that almost exactly what they did with Ac3? it really didn't make it more challenging then Ac1 or anything since in Ac3 you can chain kill like crazy and if you bother to use tools you become nearly godlike save there being like 12 jagers...

STDlyMcStudpants
04-23-2013, 06:45 PM
I didnt like medicine, but i like how they used it in AC Revelations.
They actually made missions tied to the use of medicine instead of making it some annoying thing you had to worry about like AC 2 and AC B
And it's funny you bring up syncing and AC 1 as AC 1 actually gave you the most freedom...they didnt tell you how Altiar assassinated anyone..health was the ONLY thing that reminded you that you were living memories..I PERSONALLY didn't think Assassins Creed got the syncing premise right until Assassins Creed Brotherhood where they told you exactly what to do in a mission for sync %
Im not saying I liked that, cause to be honest..i hate syncing..it makes me feel like im tied down..i hate stipulations like "Do this or that without being detected" Im an aggressive player..i hate sneaking around lol
Id be more fine with syncing if there were NO stipulations and vise versa, id be fine with stipulations if there were no syncing...both is overkill.
I either do this without being seen or i do whatever the f i want and get a higher % IF i do it without being seen.
But checkpoints should be made ONLY for death or a slip up and you CHOOSE to restart from checkpoint..not a place you keep going to because you got too far behind a target or got detected..thats just annoying