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View Full Version : Tuesday Card Debate - 16/04/2013 - Naga Tide Master



Aza404
04-16-2013, 01:03 PM
Dear Champions,

This week, we decided to ask you about one of the cards from the new extension, the Sanctuary Naga Tide Master!

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/F2P/MMDOC/s01_Cre_San_004ENG.png

Once again, tell us what you think of this card, what you would change and how you like to use it!

Enjoy,
Aza

David.ss
04-16-2013, 03:57 PM
It's a good card, combine it with other creature & It makes most of enemy creatures die the next turn after they deploy

IMO no need to change the stats & ability.
What I don't like about this card is the art, but it's just a matter of taste :)

X-Chaoscontrol
04-16-2013, 06:55 PM
Outmanoeuvre should have a limit. I had a hard time playing vs them when they have lots of that skill. They can simply optimize every attack to the best target, and there arent counters. I find it OP when used massively. 1 single card would be nice, but there's too many with it in Sanctuary decks.

Hantziie
04-16-2013, 07:59 PM
Outmanoeuvre should have a limit. I had a hard time playing vs them when they have lots of that skill. They can simply optimize every attack to the best target, and there arent counters. I find it OP when used massively. 1 single card would be nice, but there's too many with it in Sanctuary decks.

That's how Sanctuary role.

Yeah Sanctuary have many units with Outmanouevre but it also has too many units with low stats and most of time you can't kill a enemy monster because of the lack of Attack points. More, Sanctuary is not even a competitive deck and almost everyone agree with it. Usually Sanctuary decks got a good advantage on lowbie players, but it's not good against Meta. So i don't consider it OP...

About the card... it's one of the best Santuary cards, good effects and good stats. But in my opinion it should cost only 4 mana cost (or Pearl Priestess), there aren't many good t4 units. this card with t4 would make the sanctuary bounce hability more effective and make it more competitive. There should be more cheap Sanctuary units with good stats too.

X-Chaoscontrol
04-16-2013, 08:06 PM
That's how Sanctuary role.

Yeah Sanctuary have many units with Outmanouevre but it also has too many units with low stats and most of time you can't kill a enemy monster because of the lack of Attack points. More, Sanctuary is not even a competitive deck and almost everyone agree with it. Usually Sanctuary decks got a good advantage on lowbie players, but it's not good against Meta. So i don't consider it OP...

About the card... it's one of the best Santuary cards, good effects and good stats. But in my opinion it should cost only 4 mana cost (or Pearl Priestess), there aren't many good t4 units. this card with t4 would make the sanctuary bounce hability more effective and make it more competitive. There should be more cheap Sanctuary units with good stats too.
I really don't know the Meta as I'm pretty new, but what I'm sure is that it is not Sanctuary role. It's everyone role to optimize your attacks to get an advantage. With some other decks you need to do it with strategy, with Sanctuary you just have it.
You can play a deck with low creatures, focusing on spells. They can use low creatures as you said, but they have outmanoeuvre, so they are better than your low creatures. Meanwhile, he is using spells at the same lvl as you, so you are losing terrain by creature side.

If you focus on creatures, you will probably beat theirs, but he can also use spells while you can't. I find it like a hybrid.

Hantziie
04-16-2013, 09:23 PM
I really don't know the Meta as I'm pretty new, but what I'm sure is that it is not Sanctuary role. It's everyone role to optimize your attacks to get an advantage. With some other decks you need to do it with strategy, with Sanctuary you just have it.
You can play a deck with low creatures, focusing on spells. They can use low creatures as you said, but they have outmanoeuvre, so they are better than your low creatures. Meanwhile, he is using spells at the same lvl as you, so you are losing terrain by creature side.

If you focus on creatures, you will probably beat theirs, but he can also use spells while you can't. I find it like a hybrid.

With spells, it's still not that powerful. You need to get rid some important monsters to use them in your deck. The only sanctuary hero that can really be powerfull is Ishuma. But i don't see much top Ishumas arround...

Uraxor
04-17-2013, 12:41 AM
ax...;
Go play.
Hit lvl 100.
Get to 1500 GELO.
Get 100 t1s with various decks.

Then and only THEN please comment on the game's balance in the 'my words are pure gold' tone.

I'll take a wild stab here ... but are you by chance from us ...? We had much less of these threads/posts few weeks ago....


@card; one of the reasons Yetti is unplayed ...

X-Chaoscontrol
04-17-2013, 06:12 AM
ax...;
Go play.
Hit lvl 100.
Get to 1500 GELO.
Get 100 t1s with various decks.

Then and only THEN please comment on the game's balance in the 'my words are pure gold' tone.

I'll take a wild stab here ... but are you by chance from us ...? We had much less of these threads/posts few weeks ago....


@card; one of the reasons Yetti is unplayed ...

Dude, just... chill out.
My right to comment is so fair as yours. And lvl, nor elo, nor cards make you better than me on any side here. So hey, yes, probably I'm wrong, but my right to give my opinion is same as yours.
People like you, who feel theirs as the unique best, probably will ignore my opinion as beginner. But I'm sure that the staff will listen carefully to beginner impressions, so are they who will make the game popular if they feel comfortable, or not.

But don't worry, I will follow your advice. I will play more, I will learn, but today I'm already feeling better than you, cause I would never look down on anyone. ^^

patate_noire
04-17-2013, 10:46 AM
About the card... it's one of the best Santuary cards, good effects and good stats. But in my opinion it should cost only 4 mana cost (or Pearl Priestess), there aren't many good t4 units. this card with t4 would make the sanctuary bounce hability more effective and make it more competitive. There should be more cheap Sanctuary units with good stats too.

The card is already quite powerfull for 5 mana, would be crazy to lower its cost. But yeah there is a gap at 4 mana, but that another debate.

Good card as it is, nothing to change.

REV_mate
04-17-2013, 11:02 AM
The real problem with sanctuary is creatures
I dont know how devs designed the faction but its completly wrong
When playin sanctuary you allways have to go for 5 might because there are not enough shooter creatures until lvl 4
Sanctuary allready has zero flyers, not enough shooters, not enough T2 creatures (if you dont play fortunes, foxes are trash)

The naga tidemaster is really good creature

Uraxor
04-17-2013, 11:58 AM
Dude, just... chill out.
My right to comment is so fair as yours. And lvl, nor elo, nor cards make you better than me on any side here. So hey, yes, probably I'm wrong, but my right to give my opinion is same as yours.
People like you, who feel theirs as the unique best, probably will ignore my opinion as beginner. But I'm sure that the staff will listen carefully to beginner impressions, so are they who will make the game popular if they feel comfortable, or not.

But don't worry, I will follow your advice. I will play more, I will learn, but today I'm already feeling better than you, cause I would never look down on anyone. ^^

I'm sorry for snapping at you, all I had to work with was yours 'I am new butwhat I'm sure is that it is not Sanctuary role" ...
And given the frequency of such posts (*uh uh 'mate' posting above me ...*) ...
I feel that my experience coming from ~4000 games played will be somewhat more accurate than yours after what, ~500 games? Don't trying to rub it in your nose though. I'm not trying to look down on anyone neither, I'd just like people to realize that with limited experience as they have, they can't really be sure of things like devs' intentions on factions and their interactions etc.

I understand that my opinion will be diferent from yours and yours, even if less accurate in terms of the overall picture, is however no less important, especially as a newcomer's impression which is always important, but again, I mind the tone with which these impressions are conveyed (and again, you were just one in a long line).

X-Chaoscontrol
04-17-2013, 12:16 PM
I'm sorry for snapping at you, all I had to work with was yours 'I am new butwhat I'm sure is that it is not Sanctuary role" ...
And given the frequency of such posts (*uh uh 'mate' posting above me ...*) ...
I feel that my experience coming from ~4000 games played will be somewhat more accurate than yours after what, ~500 games? Don't trying to rub it in your nose though. I'm not trying to look down on anyone neither, I'd just like people to realize that with limited experience as they have, they can't really be sure of things like devs' intentions on factions and their interactions etc.

I understand that my opinion will be diferent from yours and yours, even if less accurate in terms of the overall picture, is however no less important, especially as a newcomer's impression which is always important, but again, I mind the tone with which these impressions are conveyed (and again, you were just one in a long line).

Thank you for apologizing. I'm sure your accuracy is far better, I just wanted to give my impression, true or false, but is what I've experienced. Sorry if I was rude with my answer.

They can fight me in a optimal way thanks to that ability, making me not possible to do it and losing lots of times without chance. :S

Uraxor
04-17-2013, 04:02 PM
Thank you for apologizing. I'm sure your accuracy is far better, I just wanted to give my impression, true or false, but is what I've experienced. Sorry if I was rude with my answer.

They can fight me in a optimal way thanks to that ability, making me not possible to do it and losing lots of times without chance. :S

No probs.

Also, your power lies in knowledge - learn to play against Sanctuary.
Example: You deploy DA (4/0/2, huge threat), opponent proceeds to deploy Spring Spirit (2/2/4) in a different row.
Now you know he might have Coral Priestess with which he would outmanoeuvre your DA into the Spring Spirit's attack; you can easily prevent this by placing your 3 Might drop in front of the Spring Spirit (into meele obviously); that way not only are you blocking it with what should presumably be a stronger creature, but also are preventing the 'combo' with outmanoeuvre from happening. And suddenly all he gets at 3 Might is a mere 2/1/3 shooter. You have just gained a significant advantage.

Another thing you can do is filling up your line; if you have your Melee line full, your creatures cannot be moved because they have nowhere to be moved. Of course this example will only work in very few cases; it's simply to demonstrate how can you approach the problematics.

Try to anticipate what can they do with their skill and prevent it in advance. Then, suddenly, the fearsome Sanctuary turns into a bunch of underpowered creatures :) (Few exceptions as usual.)

X-Chaoscontrol
04-17-2013, 04:15 PM
No probs.

Also, your power lies in knowledge - learn to play against Sanctuary.
Example: You deploy DA (4/0/2, huge threat), opponent proceeds to deploy Spring Spirit (2/2/4) in a different row.
Now you know he might have Coral Priestess with which he would outmanoeuvre your DA into the Spring Spirit's attack; you can easily prevent this by placing your 3 Might drop in front of the Spring Spirit (into meele obviously); that way not only are you blocking it with what should presumably be a stronger creature, but also are preventing the 'combo' with outmanoeuvre from happening. And suddenly all he gets at 3 Might is a mere 2/1/3 shooter. You have just gained a significant advantage.

Another thing you can do is filling up your line; if you have your Melee line full, your creatures cannot be moved because they have nowhere to be moved. Of course this example will only work in very few cases; it's simply to demonstrate how can you approach the problematics.

Try to anticipate what can they do with their skill and prevent it in advance. Then, suddenly, the fearsome Sanctuary turns into a bunch of underpowered creatures :) (Few exceptions as usual.)
Yeah, I haven't tried to anticipate it, cause I had never known thay had so many with outmanouvere. My prob is my deck is spell based, so I can't get my board plenty of creatures. Well, I will try next time, but I know I still need some cards to improve my deck.

Psychobabble.au
04-18-2013, 01:42 AM
Yeah, I haven't tried to anticipate it, cause I had never known thay had so many with outmanouvere. My prob is my deck is spell based, so I can't get my board plenty of creatures. Well, I will try next time, but I know I still need some cards to improve my deck.

If your deck is spell based you're instantly at an advantage vs sanctuary because all of their dangerous creatures have low health and a lot of them only have any value when they already have a board position. Kill their early drops and naga tide master does nothing.

Of course, you need to be playing good spells to do this, but that's just a case of getting a good deck. Magic decks are fundamentally good vs sanctuary though.

X-Chaoscontrol
04-18-2013, 08:34 AM
If your deck is spell based you're instantly at an advantage vs sanctuary because all of their dangerous creatures have low health and a lot of them only have any value when they already have a board position. Kill their early drops and naga tide master does nothing.

Of course, you need to be playing good spells to do this, but that's just a case of getting a good deck. Magic decks are fundamentally good vs sanctuary though.
Totally true. That's exactly my problem. I have some of the good spells, but I lack most of the direct dmg spells. On top of that, I'm following an Ariana deck that I don't really know how it should be used. I really want to get the in-game chat to be able to ask people like you for some key advices that I'm carrying for now. ^^

Hantziie
04-18-2013, 11:52 AM
The card is already quite powerfull for 5 mana, would be crazy to lower its cost. But yeah there is a gap at 4 mana, but that another debate.

Good card as it is, nothing to change.

Yeah i know, that's why i said "Or Pearl Priestess" :P

Psychobabble.au
04-19-2013, 01:06 AM
Totally true. That's exactly my problem. I have some of the good spells, but I lack most of the direct dmg spells. On top of that, I'm following an Ariana deck that I don't really know how it should be used. I really want to get the in-game chat to be able to ask people like you for some key advices that I'm carrying for now. ^^

I think that's what frustrates longer term players the most when newer players come onto the boards making sweeping statements/complaints about balance and power levels in the game which are only true if you're talking about a limited card pool with sub-optimal spells. I appreciate that new players' perspective is valuable, but it'd be good if people recognised up front that what they're saying is due to their limited cards pool and not "X is super imba it needs to be nerfed".

X-Chaoscontrol
04-19-2013, 08:19 AM
I think that's what frustrates longer term players the most when newer players come onto the boards making sweeping statements/complaints about balance and power levels in the game which are only true if you're talking about a limited card pool with sub-optimal spells. I appreciate that new players' perspective is valuable, but it'd be good if people recognised up front that what they're saying is due to their limited cards pool and not "X is super imba it needs to be nerfed".
Yeah, that's `probably right, but I guess there's more people in my stiuation than in yours. That's why our impression is more popular and also important, in a different way.

Baelnor_
04-21-2013, 07:45 AM
Also, your power lies in knowledge - learn to play against Sanctuary.
Example: You deploy DA (4/0/2, huge threat), opponent proceeds to deploy Spring Spirit (2/2/4) in a different row.
Now you know he might have Coral Priestess with which he would outmanoeuvre your DA into the Spring Spirit's attack; you can easily prevent this by placing your 3 Might drop in front of the Spring Spirit (into meele obviously); that way not only are you blocking it with what should presumably be a stronger creature, but also are preventing the 'combo' with outmanoeuvre from happening. And suddenly all he gets at 3 Might is a mere 2/1/3 shooter. You have just gained a significant advantage.

Another thing you can do is filling up your line; if you have your Melee line full, your creatures cannot be moved because they have nowhere to be moved. Of course this example will only work in very few cases; it's simply to demonstrate how can you approach the problematics.

Try to anticipate what can they do with their skill and prevent it in advance. Then, suddenly, the fearsome Sanctuary turns into a bunch of underpowered creatures :) (Few exceptions as usual.)

That is actually some really useful information. I am not sure I had thought of it this way before after being hosed regularly with Inferno

basta4ya4ya
05-15-2013, 06:51 PM
as saying befor, the main hero is Ishuma, immobilize is the key, pearl priestess is better.

a lot of specific moments like:
uses fortune "Underwater fortress" - u must have 4 creature of the type, not 2+2 or other combination of creeps and u bring pearlP not nagaTM

t4 is good fo nagaTM with balancing of course.

ps dont use DA aginst Ishuma like damagedealer only like 1shot wall because from 3 mana he can deploy t3 shooter with immobilize and do 2dmg if he needs.
ps2 outmanoeuvre imba and bring a lot of lools at the beginning with magic creatures like Spring spirit(2/2/4) + 1-2 events Week of wild spirits (+1attack to magic crearures)