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BATISTABUS
04-12-2013, 11:18 PM
What tools do you think are absolutely necessary for an Assassin's Creed game? Which weapons and gadgets do you think could be included without feeling excessive? In what way would you limit weapon functionality? Would certain weapons only be useful if there were significant changes to the AC formula?

For reference, here is a list of most of the weapons from previous AC games. If I missed anything (not counting variations of things I put), let me know.

-Bombs (Revelations variations)
-Bow
-Crossbow
-Dagger
-Fists
-Heavy Weapons
-Hidden Blade
-Hidden Gun
-Mace
-Medicine
-Metal Cetus
-Pistol
-Poison Blade (normal and fast acting)
-Poison Darts (normal and fast acting)
-Rope Darts
-Smoke Bombs
-Sword
-Throwing Knives
-Tomahawk
-Trip Mines


MY Opinion

Essentials:

-ONE Close-Range combat weapon (dagger, fists, heavy weapons, mace, sword, tomahawk) that varies depending on the character, location, and time period. All of these weapons amount to the same thing and are only a waste of development time and resources. Buying more expensive weapons that deal more damage is a waste of money, since the differences aren't very obvious and combat is easy enough already. Unless the variation of these weapons changes drastically, most of them are useless.

-Hidden Blade has to stay, but for it to make sense, there needs to be some limitations. If there was a sound detection system, the blade would be the most quiet way to kill someone. You cannot fight with the hidden blade like Ezio did. It can only be used in combat if its use is paired with the combat weapon (like Connor's tomahawk/hidden blade style). Air assassinations must be done with the hidden blade.

-ONE Long-Range weapon (bow, crossbow, hidden gun, pistol, throwing knives) depending on the character, location, and time period. Long-range weapons in combat just it easier, as you get faster, one-hit kills. A sound-detection system could provide reason to use a bow instead of a gun, but in that case, why ever use the gun? The bow is faster, more or less has infinite ammo, and obviously quieter. After AC1, throwing knives became completely useless, as they caused you to be detected and did not kill the enemies instantly.

-Fists. This allows you to incapacitate enemies without killing them.

Maybes:

These tools I think could add an interesting element to the game, but would might hurt the game/be useless if not implemented properly.

-Poison Dart. Bombs are too effective or too useless. Smoke bombs completely incapacitate enemies, and the other bombs kill too many enemies at once (or do nothing). While Poison Darts can provide a distraction, guards are still able to function. It's a balanced tool that can help you get through a heavily guarded area. Poisoned enemies should walk away from their post before freaking out. It will give you a short amount of time to get something done before guards start freaking out (as opposed to an instant reaction from using a long-range weapon).

-Rope Dart. This allows you to kill an enemy out in the open from a distance, but pull them away far enough so their body can be hidden.

AdamPearce
04-12-2013, 11:24 PM
I totally agree with that ^^'.

And tough about something, after reading the post below, for each ''Section'' of alternative weapons (or basics weapons as well) we should have the possibility to scroll them.

Example:

In the wheel of weapons, you've got the long range weapons in right corner, you selected it and then you can choose what kind of long range weapon you want (Bow? Gun? Knives?) ! That would save a lot of space in the wheel of weapons and permitted us to carry more weapons at time. Also a way set our things would be great.

Rugterwyper32
04-12-2013, 11:39 PM
I think the idea of having 4 essential weapons and 4 tools.
I'd say 4 weapons: The hidden blade that should go back to AC1 somewhat and have no defense (that is ridiculous), a medium weapon for combat that would be better against stronger enemies and would work for decent defense, a short sword to handle big groups of enemies quickly but is weaker and has less in terms of defense, and your fists for incapacitation.
Then 4 tools: First would be a long range weapon, be it throwing knives, bow, pistols, whatever works better. Then the two you mentioned for those reasons. And finally, bring back smoke bombs, just that rather than making them overpowered, make it so they just make this curtain that cuts line of sight. It'd be more of an escape tool rather than "throw bomb, stab everyone". Make it have a more strategic use.

BATISTABUS
04-12-2013, 11:48 PM
I totally agree with that ^^'.
Great! But would you mind editing that post and deleting the quote? It kind of takes up a lot of space xD

SixKeys
04-13-2013, 02:24 AM
Essentials:

-Fists/Hidden blade
-Sword/Blunt weapon
-Dagger
-One type of silent ranged weapon (throwing knives, bow/crossbow)
-Poison

Maybes:

-Bombs (including smoke and tripwire)
-Gun
-Heavy/two-handed weapons (battle axes etc.)
-Rope darts


IMO ACB and ACR went overboard by having four different types of ranged weapons (gun, throwing knives, poison darts and crossbow), bombs and metal cestus. AC2 had a nice amount of variation and each tool served one purpose while having its own drawbacks and benefits. For example the hidden gun was efficient, but had a long aiming time and the noise would make guards suspicious. Throwing knives were silent but less effective against heavily armored guards. Smoke bomb was good for escaping when you were overwhelmed (though admittedly overpowered, it should have had a shorter effect time). Poison blade was effective for creating a distraction but required that you get close to your target. So there was a risk involved in using it.

In ACB the crossbow was one-hit-kill AND silent, so it made the gun and throwing knives completely useless. Being able to fire poison darts from a distance got rid of the risk involved in poisoning your target. In ACR the smoke bomb's range and effect was made even greater than ever before and you could carry more at a time.

Sometimes less is more. Bare-handed combat (plus hidden blade), two close-range combat weapons (sword and dagger), one silent ranged combat weapon (throwing knives/bow etc.) and poison should stay. The rest is fluff and devs should carefully consider whether they contribute anything meaningful to the gameplay before bringing them back.

xx-pyro
04-13-2013, 02:29 AM
I think the more the better, as long as they don't feel tacked on (see; ACR bombs). I like utilizing the full extent of my arsenal of weapons and gadgets and gizmos. If I had to choose four, it'd obviously be the hidden blade, the sword, a long range stealth weapon, and perhaps a tool like the rope dart, however I feel like limiting yourself for the sake of limiting yourself takes away from the enjoyment of the game. I'm not roleplaying Connor here, he's his own character- that's what I buy Dragon Age and indie games for, to limit myself within the confines of a character. This is Assassin's Creed, whether I want to blow someone up (which to be honest is rarely), silently take them out from afar, wage war against a city of guards and fight my way to my target, or just jump down from a rooftop and assassinate him, I should be able to.

SixKeys
04-13-2013, 02:32 AM
I think the more the better, as long as they don't feel tacked on (see; ACR bombs). I like utilizing the full extent of my arsenal of weapons and gadgets and gizmos. If I had to choose four, it'd obviously be the hidden blade, the sword, a long range stealth weapon, and perhaps a tool like the rope dart, however I feel like limiting yourself for the sake of limiting yourself takes away from the enjoyment of the game. I'm not roleplaying Connor here, he's his own character- that's what I buy Dragon Age and indie games for, to limit myself within the confines of a character. This is Assassin's Creed, whether I want to blow someone up (which to be honest is rarely), silently take them out from afar, wage war against a city of guards and fight my way to my target, or just jump down from a rooftop and assassinate him, I should be able to.

Sure, but when you have 50 weapons that all do basically the same thing, don't you think that's a bit much? ("Hmm, should I equip a sword or a battle axe? Oh well, I'll just take them both!")

xx-pyro
04-13-2013, 02:34 AM
Sure, but when you have 50 weapons that all do basically the same thing, don't you think that's a bit much? ("Hmm, should I equip a sword or a battle axe? Oh well, I'll just take them both!")

If they do the same thing (like the many swords do,) than I agree. But those weapons take up the same spot on the weapons wheel, so I can only have one at a time, and I don't think they take much away from the game.