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Pankratz1980
04-11-2013, 09:47 PM
Do they?
The reason I'm asking is because two (unfortunately, pretty negative) previews have only recently shown up in the polish press. I thought the dev team would appreciate valuable feedback, be it positive or negative.

http://www.gram.pl/artykul/2013/04/11/might-magic-x-legacy-juz-grali-my.shtml
http://www.gry-online.pl/S022.asp?ID=8914

Here's a short summary:

- there's no freedom of exploration, the demo was extremely linear, pushing you down a single path
- all the areas were very, very small, leaving no room to maneuver even
- the game shamelessly creates an illusion of free movement within a given space, the grid your movement is restricted to doesn't match the layout of a level, meaning: there's an abundance of invisible walls;
outdoor areas or larger dungeon rooms make it look like you should be able to walk up to walls or foliage (or enter a small cave) without any problems, but the aformentioned invisible walls prevent you from doing that - according to these previews, it makes no sense. As a result, because of these restrictions, all the environments feel like movie sets instead of areas you can actually explore.
- no puzzles in the demo
- there's "hardly any roleplaying": you cannot engage in conversations with NPCs, merely read/hear a few words they have to say
- character development is extremely limited, the only thing you can manually alter when levelling up are the skills, everything else is done automatically based on your class
- the graphics, while "charming", aren't as good as in Legend of Grimrock
- they didn't like the fact you cannot freely choose a class for each race
- too easy & short, leaves a mediocre impression overall (they claim Legend of Grimrock did everything better)

Well, according to the recent Q&As and interviews, some of these flaws are a result of the demo being... well, a demo for the press, an unfinished build or conscious design decisions... but still, certain things like the grid layout being pretty limited and resulting with invisible walls ("I should be able to walk up to this wall or enter this cave, but I can't, because the grid feels so arbitrary") sounds very worrying.

forgottenl
04-13-2013, 01:59 PM
Hmm. Well in the old MM games there was also "hardly any roleplaying" and character development was based on your class. So I think that sound pretty consistent to the old games. If the game really has many more months of development remaining (within the year it should be released, I also think I heard Q4 2013 somewhere) then the depth of content has yet to be added. From what little I have read about game development (mostly at Project:Eternity) it seems that the skeleton of a game is programmed first, so that all the basics works and then the depth of content is programmed in at the end.

Pankratz1980
04-13-2013, 06:07 PM
Hmm. Well in the old MM games there was also "hardly any roleplaying" and character development was based on your class. So I think that sound pretty consistent to the old games.

I'm aware of that, but tell that to the people who wrote the aformentioned articles.;)
To be honest, I'm wondering if it's the matter of these reporters having had preconceived notions of what MMX should be compared to what they were shown (in a comment section, one of them openly complained it should be more like MM6 - that is, turn based, but without grid-based movement, because "it's outdated, a step backwards, low budget, yadda yadda") or just a poor, rough-around-the-edges show demo.

Like I said, the thing that really worries me is the "invisible walls where they shouldn't be" issue, that could prove to be a major immersion-breaker.

znork
04-13-2013, 06:18 PM
First of all the demo is a demo second yes the dev team reads this forum third this is a legacy game its not skyrim. So this is not for everyone.


The people writing the preview are amatures that dosent understand what sneek peak is.The demo is to show the concpet nothing more nothing less. Its like condem the game after playing 0.5% of it. The demo was to showwhat the devs are thinking!

Ravens Klaws
04-14-2013, 10:33 PM
1>its a demo. duh. specially if its a dungeon you saw, from the annoucment preview it looked like they where indeed free roaming.
2>one of the areas in the annoucment demo was outside in what looked like a large detailed area.
3>yeah,,, its ubisoft, granted i will give them a chance, but this could be the first might and magic game which is neither m&m nor free roaming. though in dungeons its always been like that, hence why you never burned yourself on a torch or something or where able to walk into the wall. its just not noticable as the invisable wall and the wall itself are userally really close.
4>there where ever puzzles in m&m? i never really noticed them. well one but mostly i think they where sparse anyway, specially as the series grew in number.
5>again, this is userally what happened. you talked to an npc,unless its a usable npc(another unique system in might and magic was the ability to take an npc for party boosting skills , but this was removed in 8 in favour of a new party system) they userally just said something entirely pointless. its you thats supposed to be doing the roleplay, not them.
6>ok im tired of pointing the same things out, please just play a might and magic game ok? you can get working ones from gog,com that work on modern pcs.
7>graphics, seriously. in a might and magic game?lmfao. youve REALLY never played a might and magic game have you? 3DO focused on the important factor, GAMEPLAY. graphics are pointless. if your a graphics hog, sell your pc and meet the full HD full graphics thing i call opening the door and going outside. seriosly this game has never been graphically good and its still famous. its too much focus on looks that ruined this generation, after all.
8> classes are the same way they have always been in might and magic. annoying really i want my spear weilding mage and axe weilding thief.
9>its a free roamer(well its supposed to be), theres no such thing as too easy, and its supposed to be a long game(25 hours maybe? i don't remember it was said in the annoucment interveiw thing).

10>YOU WATCHED A DEMO. YOU KNOW A THING THAT ONLY SHOWS A POINT OF THE GAME THATS ALREADY OUTDATED WHEN ITS SHOWN?
11>no they are not, they have only been working on the game 8 months now, they will be busy developing.

Pankratz1980
04-14-2013, 11:03 PM
@ Raven Klaws

I agree for the most part, Here's hoping you had those journalists in mind when using the word "you"... I'm just the messenger here. :p

Ravens Klaws
04-16-2013, 09:34 PM
yeah im sorry for the meanness there, but i still stand behind point 7, theres no need for good graphics at all. heck people like text adventure games, and they have no graphics at all. and the might and magic series is almost famously known for its poor graphics,even its spinoffs(perticuarly since mm7 and mm8 use the same unchanged engine). i should point out as well it was unfair of me to have already expected someone to have played might and magics main franchise given its age and gog being the only way to get them to work on modern pcs,so sorry about that, it was my way of saying "this was the system in previous games"
yeah...journalists are userally stupid with videogames. and mps. even casual gamers(me being one,one of the reasons free roamers are my fav games)can read the well know clear well pointed out phrase"this demo might not be representative of the final product" or something like "this product is a work in progress and may not be representive of the final product"which is in nearly all demos of this nature. i never trust journaslist posts about it until 2 or 3 months after the games release, or any reviews about the game(since they will not have played the game through) *looks with large eyes and a grin*i am a junior member.

cragthehacker
04-17-2013, 04:00 PM
First of all the demo is a demo second yes the dev team reads this forum third this is a legacy game!

What is a legacy game?


its not skyrim.!

Skyrim achieves everything Arena and Daggerfall achieved, and far more.



So this is not for everyone.!

Is it for Might and Magic fans?

narupley
04-17-2013, 04:05 PM
What is a legacy game?



Skyrim achieves everything Arena and Daggerfall achieved, and far more.




Is it for Might and Magic fans?

Hahaha, exactly. Znork doesn't know what he's talking about.

cragthehacker
04-17-2013, 04:05 PM
1>its a demo. duh. specially if its a dungeon you saw, from the annoucment preview it looked like they where indeed free roaming.

Not according to the those who have played the demo(or even Ubisoft themselves).

So, we'll see.

But, I sincerely hope you are right(Ubisoft can choose to clarify this point at any time).



9>its a free roamer(well its supposed to be), theres no such thing as too easy, and its supposed to be a long game(25 hours maybe? i don't remember it was said in the annoucment interveiw thing).

Now, this worries me - why such a modest estimate(however they presume to calculate it)?

Might and Magic 6 boasted over +400 hours of gameplay(which, having played the game, I feel is a justified claim).

Even Might & Magic ll(made on a shoestring budget) boasted 200 hours.

HEF2011
04-18-2013, 08:56 PM
Does a video game that pushes over 400 hours (or even 200 hours) of gameplay have room in a gamer's life for additional installments?

cragthehacker
04-18-2013, 11:49 PM
Does a video game that pushes over 400 hours (or even 200 hours) of gameplay have room in a gamer's life for additional installments?

Ask Bethesda.

Tarragon
04-19-2013, 08:25 AM
Ask Bethesda.

And which game is this? I played Skyrim with all DLCs and Steam says 98 hours, so there is nothing with 400+. Next point, u cant compare a multi million dollar cross platform production with a game, whic is produced by a small team for pc only.

cragthehacker
04-19-2013, 01:40 PM
And which game is this? I played Skyrim with all DLCs and Steam says 98 hours, so there is nothing with 400.

I know plenty of people who have been playing Skyrim longer than 400 hours, marketing aside.

cragthehacker
04-19-2013, 01:54 PM
Next point, u cant compare a multi million dollar cross platform production with a game, whic is produced by a small team for pc only.

Why can't I?

How large was Might & Magic ll's development team?

And it boasted much longer play times.

But, let's hope that this is just bad marketing on
Ubisoft's part, and MMX will actually have more content
than they are suggesting(ie. Perhaps even worthy of it's legacy).

narupley
04-19-2013, 02:29 PM
Why can't I?

How large was Might & Magic ll's development team?

And it boasted much longer play times.

But, let's hope that this is just bad marketing on
Ubisoft's part, and MMX will actually have more content
than they are suggesting(ie. Perhaps even worthy of it's legacy).

Fat chance. Ubisoft isn't going to pour a huge amount of money into something they're not even sure will sell. So MMX will probably be fairly thin compared to previous games. Still, it's up to us to buy the game (and tell others) if it's worth it (even if it's shorter than we'd like), so that they'll get the hint and come back with a fully fledged MMXI.

forgottenl
04-19-2013, 09:17 PM
I don't see the problem extending playing time. They could just add tons of filler. Which would lead to a crappy game. Personally I've enjoyed action games with a 10 hour playing time. IF they produce a 20 hour quality game, I'll buy it. But if its crap, then it won't matter if its 20 or 400+ hours, I'll probably quit after 5. If you want a Might and Magic Skyrim, it won't happen, because of what has already be said about the game, Its being worked on by a small team over a relatively short period of time. It won't display everything that a modern computer can do.

Tarragon
04-20-2013, 11:19 AM
I know plenty of people who have been playing Skyrim longer than 400 hours, marketing aside.

And how often they played it from the beginning to the end then? When a company says how long a game will be, they assume the the time it needs to play throught it one time, of course u can have longer play times, but they assume the average.

And over 400 hours skyrim? How did they do this? I played it from the beginning to the end, with all DLCs, 3 times and dont come to this playtime by far...

forgottenl
04-20-2013, 03:16 PM
I haven't played Skyrim, but played Oblivion through twice, according to the game clock my first playthrough took 101 hours, the second 96. Granted I left the room at some points to eat, while my character was regenrating mana, so that's not pure playing time. 21 hours for Knights of the Old Republic (the second time), which also had an in game clock, and about 60 hours for Dragon Age:Origins+Awakenings (The first time). I just finished MIght and Magic 6 (the second time) a few months ago, and believe it took me about 40-50 hours to complete.

Tarragon
04-20-2013, 05:19 PM
I haven't played Skyrim, but played Oblivion through twice, according to the game clock my first playthrough took 101 hours, the second 96. Granted I left the room at some points to eat, while my character was regenrating mana, so that's not pure playing time. 21 hours for Knights of the Old Republic (the second time), which also had an in game clock, and about 60 hours for Dragon Age:Origins+Awakenings (The first time). I just finished MIght and Magic 6 (the second time) a few months ago, and believe it took me about 40-50 hours to complete.

I didnt play Oblivion more than a couple of hours (didnt like it, although i'm a big fan of morrowind and skyrim...), the playtime of the rest u mentioned could be correct, as far as i remember, I'm playing mm6 right now myself, and i think 40-50 hours is right there.

But again, we shouldnt compare multi million dollar project with mm10, which is, as far as i see, a low budget production. Dont missunderstand me, low budget dont means it will be bad, but in some parts, u just cant expect the same quality as AAA games have.

And to the point, how big the team is, this is from the Q&A from CelestialHeavens :

CH: How many developers are actually working on the game?
Answer: At Limbic the Might & Magic X core team is 16 people.

HEF2011
04-20-2013, 08:07 PM
And to the point, how big the team is, this is from the Q&A from CelestialHeavens :

CH: How many developers are actually working on the game?
Answer: At Limbic the Might & Magic X core team is 16 people.


Wow.:eek:


By today's standards, that's a relatively small team compared to game development teams Activision or Electronic Arts can assemble.
For fun, here's an excerpt from the introduction, first 2 paragraphs inside the manual of Heroes of Might & Magic III regarding game development teams:

"Dear Heroes of Might & Magic fans,


"When I sat down to create King's Bounty, the precursor to Heroes of Might & Magic, never in my wildest dreams did I imagine it would grow into the phenomenom the series has become. I had just finished Might & Magic II. At the time, King's Bounty was state of the art: 16 colors and used up both sides of the floppy disk. I had one programmer and one artist to make my design real, and it took us about a year to finish.


Nine years later, the Heroes III game is state of the art. The Heroes III game has 65,000 colors and fills an entire CD. I had over 30 people work on the project: programmers, artists, voice actors, and level designers, and it took us about 18 months to finish."

Jon Van Caneghem
Creator and Designer
Heroes of Might & Magic I - III
Might & Magic I - VIII
King's Bounty



I still read that manual from time to time to be inspired.:o

Ravens Klaws
04-20-2013, 10:06 PM
right, after the constant nasty reactions id gotten on this forum i swore to stay off it. but i feel i should point out the 25 hours reflect story, he said there would be more dungeons and caves to explore and stuff, and no, no game is 400hours. that amount would require something highter than terrabytes i think. the hours of the game can't be reflected anyway as all gamers play in their own way, its just the average the playtesters took to finish the games story.