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View Full Version : Will Edward be able to kill civilians?



BATISTABUS
03-26-2013, 05:39 AM
We know Edward did not start out as an Assassin, and that he's quite selfish. He'll do almost anything to gain infamy and wealth. Do you expect that Edward will be able to kill innocent people? Do you think they'll put in a karma system? Do you think they'd do something weird like allow you to kill civilians at first but then desynch you after he becomes an Assassin?

Even though we are supposed to be replaying the memories of an ancestor (or maybe not in the case of AC4), I would very much like a karma system in place. If any main character would be able to kill civilians without desynchronization, I think it'd be Edward.

Rogue Agent 035
03-26-2013, 05:48 AM
We know Edward did not start out as an Assassin, and that he's quite selfish. He'll do almost anything to gain infamy and wealth. Do you expect that Edward will be able to kill innocent people? Do you think they'll put in a karma system? Do you think they'd do something weird like allow you to kill civilians at first but then desynch you after he becomes an Assassin?

Even though we are supposed to be replaying the memories of an ancestor (or maybe not in the case of AC4), I would very much like a karma system in place. If any main character would be able to kill civilians without desynchronization, I think it'd be Edward.



They haven't done it in the past an IMO would be silly to start now, but who knows they just might impliment a Karma System. Though I hope in a way that you can, as I can't tell ya how many times while in combat I've accidentally killed a civ in every AC game so far, an though it never desynced me, it has "Glitched" an given me that famous message, "Your Ancestor didn't harm civilians".

Xeriam
03-26-2013, 06:13 AM
They haven't done it in the past an IMO would be silly to start now, but who knows they just might impliment a Karma System. Though I hope in a way that you can, as I can't tell ya how many times while in combat I've accidentally killed a civ in every AC game so far, an though it never desynced me, it has "Glitched" an given me that famous message, "Your Ancestor didn't harm civilians".

Just out of curiosity, would you find it more preferable if instead of "Your Ancestor didn't harm civilians." It instead went, "Player. Wat r u doin. Player. STAHP."?

On topic: I highly doubt it. That kind of minor detail does not really seem like something Ubisoft would pay attention to.

LoyalACFan
03-26-2013, 06:32 AM
I imagine it will be like AC3, where the game actively discourages you from killing civilians by removing the ability to kill them with bladed weapons. And honestly, that's how it should be. Just because he's a selfish pirate doesn't mean he strolled through town stabbing old ladies in the face for fun :nonchalance: I imagine we'll be able to rob merchant vessels, but beyond that I don't think the "killing civilians" system will be drastically revamped.

And karma meters are overrated anyway; the only game I've played that did it right was Infamous.

samurai.leo
03-26-2013, 06:46 AM
no ,there not much gold made out killing civilians unless raids.

Assassin_M
03-26-2013, 06:47 AM
Just out of curiosity, would you find it more preferable if instead of "Your Ancestor didn't harm civilians." It instead went, "Player. Wat r u doin. Player. STAHP."?

.
I laughed so hard

Locopells
03-26-2013, 10:59 AM
They won't want to turn it into GTA, so I guess they'll leave it as it is - after all what profit is there for a pirate in getting caught mugging random people?

silvermercy
03-26-2013, 11:12 AM
Just out of curiosity, would you find it more preferable if instead of "Your Ancestor didn't harm civilians." It instead went, "Player. Wat r u doin. Player. STAHP."?

Look what you've done now... I want this to actually happen! lol

UrDeviant1
03-26-2013, 11:12 AM
I'm guessing that we'll still be encouraged to achieve full sync, even by Templar's. Meaning we'll get warned about killing civilians.

montagemik
03-26-2013, 12:18 PM
We know Edward did not start out as an Assassin, and that he's quite selfish. He'll do almost anything to gain infamy and wealth. Do you expect that Edward will be able to kill innocent people? Do you think they'll put in a karma system? Do you think they'd do something weird like allow you to kill civilians at first but then desynch you after he becomes an Assassin?

Even though we are supposed to be replaying the memories of an ancestor (or maybe not in the case of AC4), I would very much like a karma system in place. If any main character would be able to kill civilians without desynchronization, I think it'd be Edward.

Your idea would be the best , most logical option - Edward as a privateer 'could' kill civilians without desyncing (doesn't mean we have to) - but would raise his notoriety faster ........
Once he joins the Assassins ,desyncing then becomes default if he kills civillians,
They do claim in it's in a period of True freedom - between order & chaos .............& i'd say it's well within reason a pirate/privateer would kill a few civillians at some point in their life.

ProletariatPleb
03-26-2013, 12:29 PM
That thing is ridiculous anyway, so much for a game that makes tall claims about player freedom.

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 01:34 PM
Just out of curiosity, would you find it more preferable if instead of "Your Ancestor didn't harm civilians." It instead went, "Player. Wat r u doin. Player. STAHP."?

On topic: I highly doubt it. That kind of minor detail does not really seem like something Ubisoft would pay attention to.

But you could kill civillians in Previous AC games, i think they should keep it because IMO it kind of prompts you to be more careful and places emphasis on following the creed.

pacmanate
03-26-2013, 02:00 PM
I want to kill civilians. It is fun.

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 02:01 PM
I want to kill civilians. It is fun.

Yeah the annoying ******s that get it in your way when you are trying to track a target or even worse gives your position away !!

But Assassins Creed is all about freedom so i think they should keep it in unlike AC3.

TheHumanTowel
03-26-2013, 02:09 PM
Just because he's a pirate doesn't mean he went around killing random people in the street. I wouldn't be surprised if we can attack civilian ships on the ocean but being able to slaughter people in the street would be dumb and create a weird disconnect between story and gameplay.

ProletariatPleb
03-26-2013, 02:10 PM
Just because he's a pirate doesn't mean he went around killing random people in the street. I wouldn't be surprised if we can attack civilian ships on the ocean but being able to slaughter people in the street would be dumb and create a weird disconnect between story and gameplay.
I still don't know what disconnect you keep talking about...what about the guards? All are "non innocent" people now?

TheHumanTowel
03-26-2013, 02:20 PM
I still don't know what disconnect you keep talking about...what about the guards? All are "non innocent" people now?
You don't think there'd be a disconnect when Edward's going on about protecting people's freedom and searching for peace at the end of the game and yet he's off killing random civilians in between missions? ok. It's like GTA4. Niko is all sensitive and tired of violence in the cutscenes but inbetween missions he's running people over with his car and stabbing randomers in the street. Get it now?

ProletariatPleb
03-26-2013, 02:22 PM
You don't think there'd be a disconnect when Edward's going on about protecting people's freedom and searching for peace at the end of the game and yet he's off killing random civilians in between missions? ok. It's like GTA4. Niko is all sensitive and tired of violence in the cutscenes but inbetween missions he's running people over with his car and stabbing randomers in the street. Get it now?
What about Connor crying to Haytham about killing those 3 redcoats while he decimates legions of them everyday, lol. I know it may be a disconnect but we don't need a stupid message popping up everytime it happens. It's about player freedom, now in a game, suppose Half Life 2 there's no cutscenes, and while talking we can throw **** at people's face but it's OUR wish, they're not asking us to do it.

pacmanate
03-26-2013, 02:24 PM
What about those innocent guards? They just have a job, yet the Assassins butcher them. They just want to feed their families.

TheHumanTowel
03-26-2013, 02:28 PM
What about Connor crying to Haytham about killing those 3 redcoats while he decimates legions of them everyday, lol. I know it may be a disconnect but we don't need a stupid message popping up everytime it happens. It's about player freedom, now in a game, suppose Half Life 2 there's no cutscenes, and while talking we can throw **** at people's face but it's OUR wish, they're not asking us to do it.
I don't see how it's important to "player freedom". All it allows you to do is go on a rampage. They've got more important things to work on with freedom, namely mission design, than letting you go GTA on the NPCs.

silvermercy
03-26-2013, 02:29 PM
What about those innocent guards? They just have a job, yet the Assassins butcher them. They just want to feed their families.
True...

I remember a scene in AC3 where I killed some redcoats who were mourning over graveyards with their wives and it made me feel sooo sad... I had to restart the sequence (which I rarely do) to make them "alive" again.

ProletariatPleb
03-26-2013, 02:31 PM
I don't see how it's important to "player freedom". All it allows you to do is go on a rampage. They've got more important things to work on with freedom, namely mission design, than letting you go GTA on the NPCs.
You think removing that restriction is very tough work or something? lol

TheHumanTowel
03-26-2013, 02:32 PM
You think removing that restriction is very tough work or something? lol
I'm just questioning why it's important? I don't feel any less free because I can't kill civilians because AC isn't about that kind of freedom.

Sl1ckM4st3r
03-26-2013, 03:47 PM
They haven't done it in the past an IMO would be silly to start now, but who knows they just might impliment a Karma System. Though I hope in a way that you can, as I can't tell ya how many times while in combat I've accidentally killed a civ in every AC game so far, an though it never desynced me, it has "Glitched" an given me that famous message, "Your Ancestor didn't harm civilians".

Every other assassin's personality didn't fit to be able to kill civilians. Edward is the first assassin that seems likely to have killed civilians.

Sl1ckM4st3r
03-26-2013, 03:53 PM
Are you all forgetting something? Abstergo Entertainment is the one processing the memories from Desmond's DNA in this game. They could edit the memories to make Edward look worse than what he was. He could not have killed civilians in reality, yet Abstergo could process it to make it seem like he actually did. And beyond all that, like others said; He is a pirate.

Assassin_M
03-26-2013, 03:55 PM
OH MA GODZ IF i CANNOZ MORDOR CIVILIANZ, THIS GAME VILL ZUCK..YEAH..like...badz

Sl1ckM4st3r
03-26-2013, 04:06 PM
OH MA GODZ IF i CANNOZ MORDOR CIVILIANZ, THIS GAME VILL ZUCK..YEAH..like...badz

I'll play the game either way. It's my friend who is stubborn about it.

Assassin_M
03-26-2013, 04:06 PM
I'll play the game either way. It's my friend who is stubborn about it.
Well...forward that post to your friend and tell him I said hi

ArabianFrost
03-26-2013, 04:24 PM
Oh so sadistic you people seem.

ArabianFrost
03-26-2013, 04:26 PM
However, I would like the ability to only kill the orphans in AC3. Huehueheueheueheh haha tad- *stab*

Sl1ckM4st3r
03-26-2013, 04:26 PM
Well...forward that post to your friend and tell him I said hi

He also has a habit of comparing Assassins Creed to CoD and saying if you're not open to being gay you don't have an open mind.

pirate1802
03-26-2013, 04:27 PM
If someone refuses to play AC because you can't kill civvies in it.. maybe its a good idea to let go of the franchise altogether.

nitres15
03-26-2013, 04:30 PM
poop

ProletariatPleb
03-26-2013, 04:35 PM
A good compromise would be the AC1 style, if you kill civies, you lose some health or sync, whatever it is now.

Sl1ckM4st3r
03-26-2013, 04:43 PM
Were pirates big on killing civilians? I was never really sure.

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 05:23 PM
Just because he's a pirate doesn't mean he went around killing random people in the street. I wouldn't be surprised if we can attack civilian ships on the ocean but being able to slaughter people in the street would be dumb and create a weird disconnect between story and gameplay.

Thats the point beimg able to attack civillians should the player feel the need to ? which me i dont because i like to play Assassins Creed as it was intended and follow the Creed :). But i am seeing alot lately that some players would rather Assassins Creed i mindless running Killing at will rather than immersing themselves into the storyline and the true ways of the Assassin which IMO is a huge no no no.

as i said i think they should keep this feature in but only as precautionary to be mindfull of your actions not for an excuse to turn the game into second hand call of duty.

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 05:57 PM
Are you all forgetting something? Abstergo Entertainment is the one processing the memories from Desmond's DNA in this game. They could edit the memories to make Edward look worse than what he was. He could not have killed civilians in reality, yet Abstergo could process it to make it seem like he actually did. And beyond all that, like others said; He is a pirate.

Yes but the whole point of the Animus is to follow the footsteps of the subjects ancestors as to how they lived so if abstergo edited Desmonds DNA files that would not make any logical sense to aid them in their search for the POE.

pirate1802
03-26-2013, 06:22 PM
remember the example Darby talked of? That Eddie can hear a businessman bragging in the market, tail him and steal his money or kill him? Well there's one civilian-killing fo you.

montagemik
03-26-2013, 06:29 PM
However, I would like the ability to only kill the orphans in AC3. Huehueheueheueheh haha tad- *stab*

You just haven't tried hard enough in AC3.

Either way , it'll be a dissapointment for me if Edward can't freely attack civillians (if only after 100% completion at least) .........
After all ,they're telling me i'm a 'Pirate - Trained by Assassin's' , so if i'm supposed to be a feared pirate trained by pro killers - It'd be kind of out of character to not be able to harm civillians at some point .

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 06:32 PM
remember the example Darby talked of? That Eddie can hear a businessman bragging in the market, tail him and steal his money or kill him? Well there's one civilian-killing fo you.

And also think back to AC1 Altair was killing people who also indirectly aiding the Templars wether they was aware it or not so the Business man could very well have something to do with the plot.
But also Edward being a pirate there is two sides to his agenda so he could be killing for the simple fact that he is pirate and it benefits his own personal cause or the businessman could be unwittingly aiding the Templars ! it could be either of these things ? and something else i thought off which would be really interesting, think back to splinter cell double agent the trust system were sam had to carry out tasks for both third Echelon and the terroist cell he was infiltrating and what ever to priority that unltimately effect the trust if the defecting party ? there coul be a system were you either follow the creed of plunder like a pirate but what ever the player chooses to do would have consequences to the opposite to what you are trying achive ?

Example Steal the money - The Assassins Creed
Kill then Steel - the way of the Pirate.

BTW the above is just an idea !! incase some take it face value.

pacmanate
03-26-2013, 06:36 PM
I never understood why assassins pickpocket civilians.

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 06:51 PM
I never understood why assassins pickpocket civilians.


Well My view is that with AC1 it started well with Altair as he only pick pocketed targets with valuable information most cases maps and letters but Ezio coming from a rich Florentine Banker family ( assuming his father had assets ) and his uncle owned a wopping great villa and Connor living on a large chunk of land !! why do they need to steal from people who had less them them.

ProletariatPleb
03-26-2013, 06:57 PM
Thats the point beimg able to attack civillians should the player feel the need to ? which me i dont because i like to play Assassins Creed as it was intended and follow the Creed :). But i am seeing alot lately that some players would rather Assassins Creed i mindless running Killing at will rather than immersing themselves into the storyline and the true ways of the Assassin which IMO is a huge no no no.

as i said i think they should keep this feature in but only as precautionary to be mindfull of your actions not for an excuse to turn the game into second hand call of duty.
Perhaps you're forgetting that there are 2 other tenants of the creed and the games hardly follows them anymore. The Creed was strict in Altair's time but then he made it a lot more lenient and Edrwad is a pirate as well as an ANTIHERO.

MT4K
03-26-2013, 06:58 PM
why do they need to steal from people who had less them them.

He steals from the poor and gives to the rich (Himself). It's Ezio Auditore.

LoyalACFan
03-26-2013, 07:05 PM
He steals from the poor and gives to the rich (Himself). It's Ezio Auditore.

Well, to be fair, after his father's execution, I doubt he had much cash laying around, and it's not as if he could go to any bank in the city and say "I'd like to make a withdrawal... name's Auditore" ;) And if memory serves me correctly, right after the execution was the only time in the series where you were forced to pickpocket civilians. It's one of those things that's up to the player to decide how much of a greedy arsehole you want Ezio to be :p

BATISTABUS
03-26-2013, 07:14 PM
I made Ezio the greediest *** in Revelations. When I needed money for renovating buildings, I would just pickpocket until a fight started, beat everyone up until I accidentally got a guard involved, kill them all, loot them, and then start over xD

ProletariatPleb
03-26-2013, 07:16 PM
I made Ezio the greediest *** in Revelations. When I needed money for renovating buildings, I would just pickpocket until a fight started, beat everyone up until I accidentally got a guard involved, kill them all, loot them, and then start over xD
I pickpocketed for hours on Tiber Island to go from almost 0 to 12 or 13k to buy the new crossbow in Brotherhood :p

MT4K
03-26-2013, 07:16 PM
yaknow something i never thought about trying before but might have to one day. pickpocket somebody and then throw their money on the ground. will they be angry or happy? lol.

LoyalACFan
03-26-2013, 07:20 PM
yaknow something i never thought about trying before but might have to one day. pickpocket somebody and then throw their money on the ground. will they be angry or happy? lol.

I'd be angry, since a crowd of moochers would soon gather to scoop up my hard-earned cash :p

Off-topic, but can you throw money in AC3? I don't remember ever doing it.

MT4K
03-26-2013, 07:41 PM
I'd be angry, since a crowd of moochers would soon gather to scoop up my hard-earned cash :p

Off-topic, but can you throw money in AC3? I don't remember ever doing it.

Now that you mention it. I really don't remember using it in AC3 either so i ain't sure lol. I'd be surprised if it wasn't possible though.

As for being off topic. Well i kind of helped derail a little myself :p.

As for the topic itself. I don't really care about the idea of killing Civilians. Even if i can it''s not something i'm going to run around doing.

Besides it's better to fight somebody who can fight back rather than some poor defenceless old lady..... Then again all the guards in AC games fight like that anyway :p.

ProletariatPleb
03-26-2013, 07:46 PM
Now that you mention it. I really don't remember using it in AC3 either so i ain't sure lol. I'd be surprised if it wasn't possible though.

As for being off topic. Well i kind of helped derail a little myself :p.

As for the topic itself. I don't really care about the idea of killing Civilians. Even if i can it''s not something i'm going to run around doing.

Besides it's better to fight somebody who can fight back rather than some poor defenceless old lady..... Then again all the guards in AC games fight like that anyway :p.
I thought you died...

ZeSpecter
03-26-2013, 07:51 PM
I remember having a great time in AC1 killing civilians (I think there were a few more AC games where you could kill civilians, but I don't remember) and getting the guards being all crazy chasing a trained assassin on the rooftops with the exact same moves. It was kinda unrealistic, but it was really cool. You lost HP (or whatever it's called) when killing a civilian, but I think that was a pretty sweet system. I would really like to see them bring that back before and after Edward becomes an assassin.

MT4K
03-26-2013, 08:04 PM
I thought you died...

I did but i got kicked out of heaven for bad behaviour. I fondled all the angels.

TheHumanTowel
03-26-2013, 08:10 PM
I did but i got kicked out of heaven for bad behaviour. I fondled all the angels.
Even Michael?

MT4K
03-26-2013, 08:25 PM
Even Michael?

Only female angels :p.

Assassin_M
03-26-2013, 08:29 PM
Only female angels :p.
Never heard of those

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 11:10 PM
Perhaps you're forgetting that there are 2 other tenants of the creed and the games hardly follows them anymore. The Creed was strict in Altair's time but then he made it a lot more lenient and Edrwad is a pirate as well as an ANTIHERO.



Example Do not compromise the Brotherhood - the below says otherwise

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/victoriadolley/11.jpg

As you can see not very discreet !!

LoyalACFan
03-26-2013, 11:33 PM
Example Do not compromise the Brotherhood - the below says otherwise

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/victoriadolley/11.jpg

As you can see not very discreet !!

Ahem... Promo media...

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/a/a8/AC_acre_assassination.jpg

... don't believe it.

montagemik
03-26-2013, 11:40 PM
Example Do not compromise the Brotherhood - the below says otherwise

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa355/victoriadolley/11.jpg

As you can see not very discreet !!


And i'd expect as Edward is also a pirate - Rules would be more like 'Guidelines' than rules as such.

In AC4 ........ 'I'm' not in the Animus chair - I'm not directly reliving 'my' ancestors memories .............. I'm replaying Hacked Abstergo memories of a 'Pirate' highly trained as an Assassin - So if i wanna be a maniac pirate & rough up a few civillians , It should be permitted.

BATISTABUS
03-26-2013, 11:40 PM
You're supposed to hide in plain sight, but assassinations are meant to be public. Show up unexpected, make a scene, disappear.

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 11:43 PM
Ahem... Promo media...

http://images.wikia.com/assassinscreed/images/a/a8/AC_acre_assassination.jpg

... don't believe it.


But admitingly as much as we all love Assassins Creed it seems the ore advanced the series as got the Less it follows the Creed ? maybe i am being far too picky lol

MasterAssasin84
03-26-2013, 11:44 PM
And i'd expect as Edward is also a pirate - Rules would be more like 'Guidelines' than rules as such.

In AC4 ........ 'I'm' not in the Animus chair - I'm not directly reliving 'my' ancestors memories .............. I'm replaying Hacked Abstergo memories of a 'Pirate' highly trained as an Assassin - So if i wanna be a maniac pirate & rough up a few civillians , It should be permitted.


Everything is Permitted ! hmm i do see a key word here but not in the context Al Mualim preached it in AC1.

LoyalACFan
03-26-2013, 11:48 PM
But admitingly as much as we all love Assassins Creed it seems the ore advanced the series as got the Less it follows the Creed ? maybe i am being far too picky lol

This is true, but I just took issue with the image you posted since there's never been a time in the games when either Altair, Ezio, or Connor violated the second and third tenets by strolling down the street going "check out mah hidden blades, y'all..." :p It was just a promo shot for AC 2. Just like the one I posted was nothing like anything Altair ever did, but it was advertised in the promo media.

dxsxhxcx
03-26-2013, 11:58 PM
Ahem... Promo media...

... don't believe it.

Al Mualim says that the Assassins should hide in plain sight before they strike (probably to have the element of surprise on their side and don't give the chance to the enemy to react), the difference between these two images is that Altair is in the middle of the attack while Ezio is calmly walking showing off his hidden blades...

LoyalACFan
03-27-2013, 12:00 AM
Al Mualim says that the Assassins should hide in plan sight before they strike (probably to have the element of surprise on their side and don't give the chance to the enemy to react), the difference between these two images is that Altair is in the middle of the attack while Ezio is calmly walking showing off his hidden blades...

I'm saying they were both equally unrepresentative of the final game. Not that Altair was breaking the Creed as bad as Ezio was in that other shot.

tinrisky
03-27-2013, 12:05 AM
I think Connor broke the second tenet the worst. You can't walk down the street without someone going "hmm" "whuu" He sticks out so much! But he still looks amazing. Edward will blend in just fine I think.

Q1RSTU
03-27-2013, 12:06 AM
I imagine it will be like AC3, where the game actively discourages you from killing civilians by removing the ability to kill them with bladed weapons. And honestly, that's how it should be.

Actually you can kill civilians with blades. You just need to have the reticle aimed at them. ;)

LoyalACFan
03-27-2013, 12:46 AM
I think Connor broke the second tenet the worst. You can't walk down the street without someone going "hmm" "whuu" He sticks out so much!

Worse than Ezio in his Brotherhood outfit? :confused:

Nah...

That outfit was badass, but low-key it was not. And let's not even bring up the some of the wackier optional armor he wore around...

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110327053504/assassinscreed/images/thumb/b/b5/Armor_Of_Brutus_v.png/200px-Armor_Of_Brutus_v.png

BATISTABUS
03-27-2013, 01:43 AM
None of the outfits have been even close to low-key except for AC1 (look like scholars) and Aveline's personas. They are not meant to be.

pirate1802
03-27-2013, 05:25 AM
None of the outfits have been even close to low-key except for AC1 (look like scholars) and Aveline's personas. They are not meant to be.

Yup. I think Eddie's outfit comes second. With the absence of symbols painted all over his shirt.. :rolleyes:

Sl1ckM4st3r
03-27-2013, 07:00 AM
Only female angels :p.

All angels are males...

LoyalACFan
03-27-2013, 07:21 AM
All angels are males...

They're technically sexless according to what I was told as a kid... but we're arguing over nothing here.

MT4K
03-27-2013, 11:42 AM
They're technically sexless according to what I was told as a kid... but we're arguing over nothing here.

This to me as well, Besides it's my version of heaven so i can have female angels dangit :p.

Assassin_M
03-27-2013, 11:45 AM
This to me as well, Besides it's my version of heaven so i can have female angels dangit :p.
describe them to me

MT4K
03-27-2013, 12:08 PM
describe them to me

Nah i shouldn't share my own perverted fantasies :p lol.

On a more serious note. I've derailed the thread again haven't i? Nobody tell Shade :eek:

Assassin_M
03-27-2013, 12:11 PM
Nah i shouldn't share my own perverted fantasies :p lol.

On a more serious note. I've derailed the thread again haven't i? Nobody tell Shade :eek:
HIDE !!

Edward will not kill civilians, no...only molest them...and this is the new creature feature..