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Wulf__34
09-02-2004, 12:44 PM
I don't understand how some of these Red planes turn without loosing energy. I'm not complaining about flight models I'm sure I'm just a BAD pilot!

Example, the other night I'm going head to head with a P51 at about 4000 meters. My nose is slighty down and I'm doing 580. He passes by turns and runs me down. I did nothing to burn energy I didnt even fire. I kept my nose slightly down and was going like a bat out of hell. How do you pull a turn like that and keep enough energy to run another plane down like that???

If that were me I would have never caought him. No matter what plane I was in.

http://www.redwulf.de/Pic/ani34.gif

Wulf__34
09-02-2004, 12:44 PM
I don't understand how some of these Red planes turn without loosing energy. I'm not complaining about flight models I'm sure I'm just a BAD pilot!

Example, the other night I'm going head to head with a P51 at about 4000 meters. My nose is slighty down and I'm doing 580. He passes by turns and runs me down. I did nothing to burn energy I didnt even fire. I kept my nose slightly down and was going like a bat out of hell. How do you pull a turn like that and keep enough energy to run another plane down like that???

If that were me I would have never caought him. No matter what plane I was in.

http://www.redwulf.de/Pic/ani34.gif

El Turo
09-02-2004, 12:52 PM
What aircraft was he flying?

What altitude?

Trim?

Fuel?

Ammo?

Damage?

Engine Temp?

Relative energy states at merge?


If you're interested, feel free to check out www.il2flying.com (http://www.il2flying.com) under the "knowledge" section. It might help out a bit?

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Wulf__34
09-02-2004, 01:05 PM
He was flyin a P51. I as flying a 44 Dora. I think I should have had energy on him. My nose was a bit down and we passed almost perfect head to head. So he as maybe a little climbing.

Altitude about 4K

Trim was a bit nose heavy.

Fuel maybe 50%

Ammo near empty. Thats why I thought to just run for home instead of fighting.

I had no damage and engine was not overheated. She was warm but not overheating.

http://www.redwulf.de/Pic/ani34.gif

THE_Bu11dog
09-02-2004, 01:17 PM
All the P-51 would need to do is to pull a split S and he would pick up a lot of energy and change direction very quickly. So it would be quite conceivable that the P-51 could have passed you head on and made it back to catch you.

nickdanger3
09-02-2004, 01:18 PM
Really? Wouldn't they be kms apart? WOuldn't the chasing P-51 lose SOME energy? Wow.

I try what Wulf mentions and get worked so must be possible, it just seems to defy physics.

El Turo
09-02-2004, 01:28 PM
Without being on voice comms with the other guy and without a track to reference, we're just completely poking around in the dark as to what may have happened. If you're trying to take a critical eye to your engagement and draw from that for next time.. here are a few things that may have allowed him to run you down (but keep in mind, we'll never really know):

1) Entered the fight with much more speed/energy than you thought he did.

2) Split-S into a slightly STEEPER dive than you to gain additional acceleration/top speed.

3) Less fuel = better acceleration

4) His buddy, also in a P51, jumped you from above?


If you're looking for possibilities, there are a few possible reasons for you getting "caught". But, as I said.. without voice comms and a track, it is impossible to know exactly what happened and much of anything else is just postulation and guesswork.

If the agenda here is to bring up superstitious side-bias garbage complaint.. then there's nothing preventing that from occurring regardless. Any time I start feeling that an enemy plane is rediculously porked, I fly nothing but that plane for a few days straight and get the stupidity out of my system.



Regards,

~T.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

DuxCorvan
09-02-2004, 01:39 PM
Ok, you fly forward and down to gain speed after head-on... he does an Split-S which makes him gain speed really fast and puts him behind you. If he did this in the right moment, this is, the same moment he was crossing you, he would be after you at a fast speed. Curiously, you should have kept it level: a split-s would have put him under you and forced him to climb to gain altitude. If you were around 5500 m. you could have engaged WEP and stayed level, making profit of the marginal speed advantage the Dora has over Pony at that altitude.

But by descending, you both gained speed at a par, while he was reaching an altitude where Dora is a bit lame. Turning radius at low level for both planes is similar, so you also could try to turn with him, not to catch him, but literally make him boring. After that, he could try to disengage, or try to catch distance and altitude to BnZ you. Anyway, a good chance for you to flee.

Wulf__34
09-02-2004, 04:38 PM
Makes sense Dux that maybe I should not have continued the slight dive. It was slight maybe only 8 degrees. But as you said it was enough to allow him to dive steeply instead of climb.

Anyway, Turo, I'm not trying to start a bad trash thread I'm curious how I can improve my turns. I dont' believe there was any "cheating" or bad modeling. I think this guy was a good pilot. I'm only trying to learn how I can do the same to a not so experienced Pony next time. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.redwulf.de/Pic/ani34.gif

El Turo
09-02-2004, 04:52 PM
No worries.. it was just a commentary on the possibility of intent.

As for what you could have done better.. Dux nailed it. Stay at your engine's critical altitude for maximum top speed.

Aside from that, in a REAL dire emergency, you could have gone straight down using your high speed rolling advantage to scissor the P51 and establish enough separation to escape and/or call in the cavalry.

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Dammerung
09-02-2004, 05:19 PM
Come Online with anyone on these forums for practice. Most of us are nice people, and have a lot of free time. Make you a pro in no time.

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Jungmann
09-02-2004, 06:26 PM
I'm a real newbie, and don't have a lot of game experience but it seems to me in RL, a P-51 split-essing after a high-speed merge would lose at least a thousand feet in the maneuver, maybe more, even at 6 tough Gs. So how could he climb back up and re-engage with a departing Dora?

Or is this where RL and the game go two different ways?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/Jungmann/IL-Sig3.jpg

Jungmann

"Oh, the monkeys have no tails in Zamboanga..."

WTE_Galway
09-02-2004, 06:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jungmann:
I'm a real newbie, and don't have a lot of game experience but it seems to me in RL, a P-51 split-essing after a high-speed merge would lose at least a thousand feet in the maneuver, maybe more, even at 6 tough Gs. So how could he climb back up and re-engage with a departing Dora?

Or is this where RL and the game go two different ways?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v365/Jungmann/IL-Sig3.jpg

Jungmann

"Oh, the monkeys have no tails in Zamboanga..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



The dora was diving

also it may have been a low yo-yo rather than a strict split S

in the end its hypothetical without a track