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View Full Version : Supercharger in P47; is there???



XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 02:00 AM
I tried the P47 plane in yours tree models, and the supercharger don´t work.


I have config the keys for Supercharge Next and Supercharger Prev, in the control panel. And with other planes work fine.

Is normal???


Thanks.

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 02:00 AM
I tried the P47 plane in yours tree models, and the supercharger don´t work.


I have config the keys for Supercharge Next and Supercharger Prev, in the control panel. And with other planes work fine.

Is normal???


Thanks.

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 02:21 AM
ah, THREE models... ok.

The P-47 uses a turbo-supercharging system that is always on and operating, and it adjusts automatically to your altitude. No problem, and that is why it dosen't switch Super Next and Prev. Those planes have a two-stage mechanical supercharger. Your turbo-super charger works just fine.

http://rwebs.net/avhistory/history/supercha.htm

The turbo powers the supercharger, instead of the supercharger being geared to the engine itself. Hope this helps.

Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 02:59 AM
Slight amendment to that, the P-47 has two compressor units, one that it integrated into the engine, and always runs at a constant speed, and the other that is powered by exhaust gases, and serves to compress incoming air before it reaches the engine's integral supercharger.

The turbocharger stage does have a pilot control associated with it, namely the waste gate control, however, it operates in a manner radically different from the superchargers modelled in Il-2, so it was decided to treat the turbo charger stage as if it were a fully automatic control.

In the real aircraft, the waste gasses gate control controls how much of the exhaust gasses are sent to the turbine. The more gas, the faster it runs. This had to be varied with altitude, in an analoug manner. There were not stages or speeds with that control, rather it operated more as a throttle for the gas turbine powered compressor. To properly model that, it would have required an aditional axis to be added to the engine controls, which would have been a major pain for the dev team, and likely been very difficult for players to use. Even turning it into a click-percentage advange system would have caused significant problems, requiring extra flight model code for the aircraft.

Harry Voyager

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XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 04:23 AM
Guage dont work. Been brought up numerous times before and after 1.0 as well with the beta. How this went unfixed is beyond me. I hope that with 1.2 all gauges work and work properly. RPM gauge is wrong as well.
S~

http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/articles/p-38_lightning/images/p-38_head_on.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 08:09 AM
You're right Harry, sorry for the mistake on the turbo powered supercharger (I *know* superchargers are directly connected to the engine, I must've had a brain fart /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )

However, if you go to the main page (almost at the bottom), it states the wastegate was automatic, to maintain the manifold pressure selected by the pilot.

http://rwebs.net/avhistory/history/p-47.htm

It does appear that the pilot could have manual control over the boost, but for normal operation, I think it would be much easier to leave the levers on the quadrant connected.

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P-47.html

If you have time and patience, and can handle the choppiness, the above link gives an excellent veiw of the P-47 in action, and even goes into how the pilot controls the boost on the Jug at altitude. Enjoy!



Good hunting,
Cajun76

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
-Aristotle

XyZspineZyX
10-26-2003, 04:42 PM
But in the FB in the cockpit of the P47, to left down there is a handle near rpm, pitch, etc, for supercharger control.

And this is in position down always, don´t mind the altitude.

Is very strangle. I think if the supercharger in P47 is automatic, the handle must to change top position in the cockpit of FB.

Thanks for the answers.

Hawgdog
10-26-2003, 04:48 PM
I was told the contract P-47's were NOT shipped with the turbo supers- something about that "technology" at the time was too secret to "give away"
So the the gauge didnt work, cause it wasnt installed.

I'm not totally sure of this but heard more than once.Rumor or not it almost makes sense thinking of military thinking.

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:22 AM
Hawgdog wrote:
- I was told the contract P-47's were NOT shipped with
- the turbo supers- something about that "technology"
- at the time was too secret to "give away"
- So the the gauge didnt work, cause it wasnt
- installed.
-
- I'm not totally sure of this but heard more than
- once.Rumor or not it almost makes sense thinking of
- military thinking.
-

I would have to say with all the hours I spenting pouring over P-47 information that the info you was told is not true. Also when I was watching the History channel's series Heavy Metal on the P-47 Thunderbolt they noted the supercharger quite frequently. I dont claim to be a aviation expert. Im claiming that the facts far outnumber the speculations and personal opinions.
S~


"I call'em as I see'em"

http://www.flightjournal.com/fj/articles/p-38_lightning/images/p-38_head_on.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 12:35 AM
The only place I've ever heard that P-47s shipped to Soviet Union lacked turbosuperchargers is on this board. I've never seen any credible evidence of it. I think it's false.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/jug_sig.jpg

Hawgdog
10-27-2003, 12:40 AM
thanks for the update

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 03:55 AM
well it always amazing me what you guys know about WWII equipment, very cool.

I read alot about the P-47, great to read it from you guys, makes me undestand the plane better.


Now where is the P-47, FM incease gauge /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center>http://www.blitzpigs.com/john/BP-johann-9-4-03.gif <center>

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 07:34 AM
SkyChimp wrote:
- The only place I've ever heard that P-47s shipped to
- Soviet Union lacked turbosuperchargers is on this
- board. I've never seen any credible evidence of it.
- I think it's false.
-
-
- Regards,
-
- SkyChimp
-

Same here. It was speculated as a possible reason for the poor performance of P-47's in soviet use, but there was no evidence to support it. Most likely the Russians got the crop of lemons, rather than anything else.

The speculation was based on prewar US regulations preventing advanced supercharger technology from being exported, however those seem to have been waived for the Lend-Lease program.

Now, the early export Wildcats had to be sold with an engine equiped with a single stage supercharger, because the export regulations prevented the P&W 1830 it used from being exported at the time. However, later Lend-Lease models were equiped with the two stage two speed superchargers.

On an interesting side note, the whole Lend-Lease program is why the Wildcat ended up armed with six guns, instead of four. The British only wanted eight-gun aircraft, so four guns was considered completely unacceptable. The Navy wanted Browning 0.50's.

Grumman couldn't wedge eight 0.50's into that wing, so they reached a compromise with the British. The Wildcat would still be armed with 0.50's, but it would carry six of them. The British figured it was the best they could get, and took it.

The Navy wasn't so happy, however. You see, in order to compensate for the extra weight, ammo count had dropped from 450 rpg with four guns, to ~240 rps with six. All in all, it cut the ammo load by 300 rounds, and choped the firing time nearly in half, nearly thirteen seconds less. Most pilots were less than thrilled.

I recall one ace commented, "Thirteen seconds may not seem like much, but it's a lifetime in combat."

Harry Voyager

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Message Edited on 10/27/0312:35AM by HarryVoyager

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 07:42 AM
Hawgdog wrote:
- I was told the contract P-47's were NOT shipped with
- the turbo supers- something about that "technology"
- at the time was too secret to "give away"
- So the the gauge didnt work, cause it wasnt
- installed.
-
- I'm not totally sure of this but heard more than
- once.Rumor or not it almost makes sense thinking of
- military thinking.
-
- <center></script>When you get to hell, tell 'em
- HawgDog sent you!
<img
- src="http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/asse
- ts/images/sharkdog.gif"> -
<img
- src="http://www.handguncontrolinc.org/_derived/def
- ault.htm_txt_bt_green_rec2_3.gif"> -

I wouldnt doubt it dawg, I mean we wanted to ship the english P-38s with out the turbo chargers due to the technology being too secret and what not, hence the 322s that the english didnt want. now I am not saying that the dawg is right, I am just saying it does jibe with that era's thinking. I wouldnt doubt it one bit if it were true. dont really need the turbo anyway till you get above 10-12,000ft anyway.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 07:50 AM
- pinche_gabacho wrote:
- dont really need the
- turbo anyway till you get above 10-12,000ft anyway.

Which happens to be somewhere that P-47's have to climb above ... always.

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 07:56 AM
In FB, the P-47 maintains engine power up to 9,000 meters. While we don't have the guages and moving levers, the supercharger is very much in operation.

Harry Voyager

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XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 08:40 AM
HarryVoyager wrote:
- In FB, the P-47 maintains engine power up to 9,000
- meters. While we don't have the guages and moving
- levers, the supercharger is very much in operation.
-
- Harry Voyager


You're kidding me right? I've gotten the P-47 D-10 to 14k, and still been able to fly at 270kmph in level flight, IAS.