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ImpStarDuece
07-07-2004, 04:11 AM
Just logged in and ther are new PF logos! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Check the main Il2 sturmovik page!

Any progress is good progress

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

ImpStarDuece
07-07-2004, 04:11 AM
Just logged in and ther are new PF logos! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Check the main Il2 sturmovik page!

Any progress is good progress

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

NegativeGee
07-07-2004, 04:23 AM
Indeed they are!

So what do we have to say about the differing aesthetics of the European version:

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/images/pf_euro.jpg

and the US version:

http://www.il2sturmovik.com/images/pf_us.jpg

Is it the US version has a more "American" feel to it (read the blue colour) or the European one has a more Imperial Japan feel?

Discuss.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

ImpStarDuece
07-07-2004, 04:35 AM
I thinks its clever marketing on the part of Ubi/1c.

The US and most of Europe dont have the best relationship at the moment, despite the straining and popular mask wearing work of politicians on both sides of the Atlantic. See the current Us/French/German/Balkan relationships for examples.

Therefore, a "American" style logo for PF might not go down too well with some members of the European community, while simultaneously being more appealing for a prospective US buyer because of its "American" feel. I doubt very much that a white on red "Rising Sun" or "imperial" style logo would appeal to many of our more patriotic friends in the States. It looks better in the store and more appealing to US buyers with the red, white and blue contrasted with the rising sun. A plain Japanese style logo might simply get glossed over, purely subconsciously as not being a US based game.

Being an Australian i know that we are fiercely and hopelessly parochical and from the time ive spent in Idaho and California i know there is a similar patriotic sentiment shared in the United States. This can translate into sales when someone feels part of thier country, or its history, is being represented.

Similarly, because Europe had much less involvement in the Pacific than the United States and Imperial Japanese rising sun logo might spark more interest than a US coloured logo. it is a little more out of the ordinary and, at the moment anyway, a little more popular with a fair section of the European population.


Still, they look damned nice, dont they! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

Dawg-of-death
07-07-2004, 04:39 AM
nice , very nice...............

Bad-MF(Mongrel Fighter) AKA .......Dawg-of-death

NegativeGee
07-07-2004, 04:54 AM
You make a good point about marketing appeal to a multi-national audience, and yes, Ubi does right to be sensitive to such considerations as image makes a big impression.

I have to admit I prefer the US version- the colours used represent the two main protagonists in the PTO, which I like as it reflects the "history" of the conflict. As well as that the shaded blue colour puts me in mind of the vast expanse of water that the pacific is, the setting in which the conflict was fought.

Pretty neat I agree http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

ImpStarDuece
07-07-2004, 05:18 AM
As an Aussie whos about to move to Japan for a year i think id have to go for the whit/red logo.

Both very pretty though.

Have you noticed that the "Rising Sun" on each logo is slightly different? The Euro version has a smaller, deeper red dot which is much more reminiscent of the Japanese flag. The US version has a slightly larger dot, higher up the lettering with lighter colouring and more pronounced fading.

To me it looks more like the pre 1942 red dot that was displayed on the inside of the US national insignia. Cant find a pic of that but it was national marking from 41 to about early-mid 42 when it was taken off all US navy planes because it was feared that it would be mistaken for the Japanese 'meatball' on IJN planes.

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

NegativeGee
07-07-2004, 06:02 AM
Well, it does look a similar tome to the early war US markings (go to service photos section and scroll down page to the colour photos):

http://tbd_devastator.tripod.com

I have not found a contempary photo of a Japanese plane to compare yet though.

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

ploughman
07-07-2004, 06:11 AM
Yeah, come to think of it the US one does look a bit like the red oot at the centre of the early US insignia. Very cool. I like the Europe one best myself as it looks dangerously IJN (coming soon to a naval base near you).

Capt._Tenneal
07-07-2004, 07:44 AM
My first thoughts : does UBI imply that the US has the "dark side" version and Europe the "light side" version ? Is that a commentary on the current state of US-Euro relations ?

<just kidding> http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LeadSpitter_
07-07-2004, 09:19 AM
seriously why dont you spend more then 30 seconds to make the logos ubi. If you want me to make much better logos let me know.

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

p1ngu666
07-07-2004, 09:29 AM
go on lead http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
<123_GWood_JG123> NO SPAM!

von_Albert
07-07-2004, 10:43 AM
Leadspitter,

If you're going to offer critcism, you could at least make it constructive and useful. It is absolutely ridiculous and extremely arrogant to claim that something has no artistic merit simply based on the amount of time it took to create it. Complex does not automatically mean good.

In fact, by its very nature a logo is supposed to be a simple design intended to quickly convey a meaningful message through the use of form and color. Did you realize that a "typical" masterpiece hanging on a wall in a museum is looked at for approximately twenty seconds? How much time do you think a logo on packaging gets? Unless the message is conveyed clearly and quickly you have lost a potential customer. I look forward to seeing your "better" design. Keep in mind that, unless you spend a really long time on it, it will just be ****.

gombal40
07-07-2004, 11:33 AM
Lead has a good eye for detail. See his skins.

But it's easy to critisize i agree on that.

So when can we see you're version lead??

LeadSpitter_
07-07-2004, 12:36 PM
Just because they teach that in high school art doesnt mean its exactly true. Logos should be unique is what they are getting at not all made in 30 seconds. They always use nike for example blah blah old news.

You need better teachers take some courses at the school of visual arts in manhattan.

Im serious when i say that logo is created in less then 30 seconds.

Ill make three when I have some time and put some time into them.

british
ijn
usn

http://img14.photobucket.com/albums/v43/leadspitter/LSIG1.gif

Yellonet
07-07-2004, 01:00 PM
They don't need "better" logos, they're good enough and quite easy to single out because of the red roundel.


- Yellonet

Weather_Man
07-07-2004, 01:26 PM
LS, I'm afraid you're wrong on this one. Marketing rules dictate the logo must be impressionable, memorable and distinctive. The simple red sun clearly gives the impression of Pacific War and even invokes some emotion. You cannot mistake what the game is about. I find it very effective.

Your sig, for example, would not make a good marketing pic. Though artistically beautiful and clearly a fine composition, it lacks the boldness and impact to make it memorable. Flash somthing like that and the PF logo, and tell me which one you will recognize first.

Just my opinion.

http://banners.wunderground.com/banner/smalltemptr/language/www/US/TX/Dallas.gif

Flying_Merkava
07-07-2004, 02:04 PM
My apathy has just been launched!

von_Albert
07-07-2004, 02:07 PM
A very nice attempt at an insult Leadspitter. Thanks, but I don't think I'll take the bait. I think it best to leave my educational background out of this and will not presume to know yours.

You said that "Logos should be unique." Essentially that is a very poor und undescriptive way of saying that they should, as I mentioned previously, "convey a meaningful message" by differentiating themselves from other logos, works of art, etc. that are competing for the same attention from any potential viewers.

Also, I know you are serious about them being created quickly. My response to that is... Yeah, so? I'm serious when I say that the amount of time spent creating the logo is irrelevent. More important is the design concept and how well the concept is implemented in terms of artistic qualities.

CowboyTodd41
07-07-2004, 03:59 PM
Hey Von_Albert, maybe you should spend a little more time in the community before you start talking to long time members like you run the damn joint. Lead's been here a while, and I agree with him, while I like the subtlety of the logos I do think they could've been done slightly better.

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Tgan92/vote.jpg

DuxCorvan
07-07-2004, 04:20 PM
They're booooooring. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

And all this stuff around US vs Europe marketing looks designed to start an even more booooooring flame thread as tradition asks.

I'm European, and I like the blue-white-red pack -besides, those are also UK, Nederlands, Russia and France colors.

Spanish colors are yellow and red, but they would make rising sun look like a fried egg and ketchup... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

And Lead's right. Those logos, at best, lack imagination... not to mention the name of the game -'Pacific Fighters' http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif - itself.

- Dux Corvan -
http://www.uploadit.org/DuxCorvan/Altamira2.jpg
Ten thousand years of Cantabrian skinning.

NegativeGee
07-07-2004, 04:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CowboyTodd41:
Hey Von_Albert, maybe you should spend a little more time in the community before you start talking to long time members like you run the damn joint. Lead's been here a while, and I agree with him, while I like the subtlety of the logos I do think they could've been done slightly better.

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/Tgan92/vote.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know how long he has been around in the community? Just because he has registered recently doesn't say anything about how long he may have been following the boards.

Leadspitter may have a point, but his delivery style isn't exactly "subtle" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Günther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg

Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

PlaneEater
07-07-2004, 04:45 PM
I just wish they would have picked a better name than 'Pacific Fighters'.

Just sounds like a generic name brand.

Something more like 'Blood Over the Ocean': The Pacific Air War'

Something a little more expressive.

heywooood
07-07-2004, 05:47 PM
Hey - I thought this was a discussion about the logos...(why are there two?)

Already the 'conversation' looks vitriolic and .50cal-ish... wazzzup?! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

So it looks hasty...meh - I can read it at least. Somer those artsy logos are real pretty butcha cant read 'em atall !

And maybe its not as cool or representative as it could be, like the planeater says...but if you put too much blood in the title, you scare away somer the older fellers. I do think ther should be the sillouette of a fighter plane over the sun...either US or IJN - so you can know its a flight sim and not a martial arts game,...that is the only thing I would add....since you asked.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

ShadowSix
07-07-2004, 07:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PlaneEater:
I just wish they would have picked a better name than 'Pacific Fighters'.

Just sounds like a generic name brand.

Something more like 'Blood Over the Ocean': The Pacific Air War'

Something a little more expressive.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But PlaneEater, we would have to call it "BOO" or "PAW", or BOOPAW, or BOO:PAW. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I'm still wondering why we have to have a Euro and U.S. logo...Sounds too politically motivated to me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

--ShadowSix

ImpStarDuece
07-07-2004, 08:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ALDEGA:
"Therefore, a "American" style logo for PF might not go down too well with some members of the European community, while simultaneously being more appealing for a prospective US buyer because of its "American" feel."
A bit out of touch with reality? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

All I see are two different logo's, just as Ubi had two (totally) different box covers (and logo's) for Lomac (USA/Euro). I don't see much point in a seperate logo. Sounds like some commerce genious learned it at school. I don't think many people care. We all just want to get our greedy little hands on PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Even if it a has a purple/pink logo!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Nicely taken out of context, but a good attempt none the less.

All i was trying to do was to figure ou tthe motivation as to why there were two seperat logos launched. I dont hear many other reasonable theories, do you?

And i'm not the only one whos taken a break from reality: Posted by HXprey in the GD forum

"I agree the European one looks better.

The European has a japanese flag like scheme, and the marketing chaps at ubi thought it won't appeal americans so they changed to american flag like colours for the amy version."

As Oscar Wilde so nicely put it " the whole worlds a little mad except for thee and me, and even thee im not so sure about"

Besides, i like being out of touch with reality. What if she decides to touch me back? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

owlwatcher
07-07-2004, 09:04 PM
I like the US version. The colors are a better match for the subject.

European version colors are a odd pick.
Washed out look.

owlwatcher
07-07-2004, 09:10 PM
Might the resaon for 2 logos be so they be marketed in both counties at the same time.
Instead of the 2 week delay.

heywooood
07-07-2004, 09:37 PM
here (http://www.rcwarbirds.com/miscellaneouspage.htm) is something PF /IL-2 related.


Is anyone else having trouble starting a new topic? Or is it just me...



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

203Ku_Takasaki
07-07-2004, 11:11 PM
Personally I like the Euro one better because it has a better Japanese feel to it however I don't see how the other one has an American feel to it.

Regardless, I don't plan on staring at the box while I play this sim so I personally could care less what the logo looks like. They aren't designing a cereal box here folks.... I just hope this sim is grrrrrreat and I can go Coo Coo for Pacific Fighters! (OK, probably only Americans will get my lame attempt at cereal humor there)

203rd Kokutai (http://www.203ku.com)

http://www.texastwister.net/images/203ku.jpg

II_JG1Hartmann
07-07-2004, 11:25 PM
oooooo

aaaaaa


wwooooow

big deal..........

von_Albert
07-08-2004, 02:05 AM
Cowboytodd41 Wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Hey Von_Albert, maybe you should spend a little more time in the community before you start talking to long time members like you run the damn joint. Lead's been here a while, and I agree with him, while I like the subtlety of the logos I do think they could've been done slightly better. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CowboyTodd41, you are absolutely right, and I would please like to ask for forgiveness. It was extremely presumptious on my part to offer an opinion in this public forum without first clearing it with the local, self-imposed authorities. Furthermore, please pardon my insolence for interrupting the sanctity of this exclusive club. It was not my intention to cause a disruption to the normally civil conversations that take place here.

I now understand that an opinion's worth is directly proportional to the length of time that one talks. Thank you for correcting me on this. It must be for this reason that, if a person is younger, they couldn't possibly have anything of use to say. After all, he or she has not been a long time "member" of the world community.

Having been so kindly corrected, I now humbly remove myself from this conversation, as it is supposed to be about the new logos created by Ubi and I do not have the proper credentials for taking part in this discussion.

Lastly, and I mean this in a genuinely sincere and friendly way, Cowboy, as NegativeGee was already kind enough to point out to you, you should be very careful about the assumptions you make about other people, or assumptions about anything really. Assumptions have the funny tendency to turn out not being true and can make a person look foolish.

zoomar2
07-08-2004, 11:25 AM
Mountains out of molehills.

First, there is no reason to believe either "logo" is anything more than an initial concept for use on a web site and may never grace a box.

Second, either is fine by me. The key to the uniqueness of PF has to be Japan and the rising sun is effective on either one. I do prefer the darker one, however.

Third, who cares?

PlaneEater
07-08-2004, 12:09 PM
As a forum vet...

...I'm with von Albert.

I've got two years of heavy study at the Art Institute of Seattle that agrees with him.

sugaki
07-08-2004, 10:04 PM
This forum's a trip man. I thought flame wars always started here because of the sensitive nature of US-Japanese relations ...but seeing how the furnace starts churning even with something as harmlessly inconsequential as a logo I guess it's just the people on here.

And as for logos, in the corporate world it's not a 30-second decision. You have different proofs, different colors, and people hire professional designers sometimes just to make a single logo. A good example being Lucky Goldstar (LG)'s new logo. They spent on that new happy face logo.

But Pacific Fighters is a game, and doesn't carry as heavy as a marketing burden as a company logo, so no surprise its not the logo to end all logos. It looks fine, US or Europe. Personally I like the US one because it's more moody and symbolic with the surrounding blue shadow. The tattered Japanese flag with burn marks for the Euro version's more static.

-Aki