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View Full Version : Does anyone else think the hidden blade has lost its "Woopie!"?



pacmanate
03-07-2013, 12:26 AM
Okay im pretty tired but I am going to try my best to make this make sense.

In AC1, what was the hidden blade used for? One thing, to stab people, you couldn't use it in combat (minus counters but that doesnt really count). This made me feel like an Assassin as this tool was used for one thing, Assassinating.

AC2 you could use it in combat, but I rarely did because the flow of combat wasn't that good for it, so mostly I used it for one thing, Assassinating.

ACB, this got kinda cool stringing together hidden blade combos, but I think it took away the fact that the hidden blade was not really a tool anymore but a full on weapon. I mean, I know its a weapon, but do you know what I mean? Same reasons for AC:R I guess.

AC3, Hidden blades in AC3 were weird. I almost thought they were out of place with Connor. If I recall I don't think you even have to use your hidden blade to assassinate anyone with it than Pitcairn on that horse. The fact that it swivelled into a knife in combat was also weird to me. This is really hard to think about how to say what I mean. Basically I think it lost its novelty in AC3, a lot. The fact that it was just kinda there because its an AC game and the fact that it wasn't used in combat as a hidden blade but instead a knife also took away from the novelty of hidden blades.

I hope for ACIV they just make use of the hidden blade more, but more in an AC1 style. Stalking someone, getting up close behind them and stabbing them and then blending away like nothing happened.

Escappa
03-07-2013, 12:28 AM
Yeah..at least I hope they take away the "you can assassinate with everything"-mechanic

Eternal Reward
03-07-2013, 12:29 AM
It's actually a good analogue for how the focus of the series has switched from stealth to combat.

Hopefully AC4 will change that.

SixKeys
03-07-2013, 12:35 AM
I still miss the noise the hidden blade used to make in AC1. :(

I agree, starting from AC2 the hidden blade started becoming more overpowered. You can go through all the games using no other weapon than the blade. In AC1 this is still cool because it's more of a challenge due to the smaller counter window, but combat with the hidden blade has since become way too easy. I also felt that in AC3 it somehow felt out of place. Maybe because there were fewer stealth opportunities, so most of the time I didn't even remember the weapon existed (apart from hunting) and because in most situations the tomahawk would work as a fine replacement.

The hidden blade should be more like in AC1: not usable in combat (apart from countering, but AC3's system kind of changed that too) and only suitable for stealth kills. Blocking shouldn't be possible as the blade should be far too easy to break.

Eternal Reward
03-07-2013, 12:37 AM
The only reason I used the hidden blades is because it is significantly more efficient with a lot of the auto take-downs. Its faster, can take out two people at once, and its stealthier.

SixKeys
03-07-2013, 12:40 AM
The blade is actually a lot more fun and useful in ToKW with the Wolf Cloak. If you use the tomahawk, Connor will automatically go high profile and lose the cloak. With the hidden blade you can just run around stabbing everyone left and right and before anyone realizes what's going on, you've dispatched 20 soldiers. Overpowered? Yes, but oh so much fun.

D.I.D.
03-07-2013, 12:42 AM
This is why I'd like the series to get away from the standard silhouette of the perpetual costume.

People talk about the beaked hood and the eagle/A logos as being indispensible iconic features, but I think the hidden blade is the only thing that's really a big deal. I'm not so attached to the trappings that I couldn't bear to see that go too, but it's the one device that really makes sense as a thing that the assassins have always used.

As you say, it needs a reason to exist and the obvious reason would be if you had to get into a situation in which people would believe you were not armed. I'm surprised this hasn't been used more often in the games, but that really ought to be its purpose. If the character was dressed like the people around him/her, you'd expect the device to need to be slimmer and more sophisticated, so it could fit inside the sleeve of an 19th century tailored suit. I think it would get its identity back then.

itsamea-mario
03-07-2013, 12:45 AM
I don't mind it being used in counters. With Altair i always thought it would make sense for him to use his hidden blade whilst using his sword, say his sword gets trapped, or he uses his sword to hold the opponents guard away, he could just use his hidden blade to kill the guy. It seems like something an assassin would do, those are the kind of tricks that allow a single person to take on 10.

But i do agree op, especially in AC2, it was like the ultimate weapon, couldn't be disarmed, did a decent amount of damage and every counter resulted in a kill. Much prefer the way it was used in combat in AC1.

rileypoole1234
03-07-2013, 12:50 AM
Yeah it's become way too overpowered. I think it would be a step back in a good way if we couldn't attack or counter as easily with it like in AC1.

pacmanate
03-07-2013, 12:56 AM
I just want to add this to AC3's problems with it. The fact that you didnt need to use the hidden blade was one thing, but you couldnt use it in combat either. It was obsolete. I agree with DoubleClickTF too, If anything I find the hidden blade more iconic that the beaked hood. Its just a shame that it has lost its charm and become more of a thing you have to have in the game just cause.

Eternal Reward
03-07-2013, 01:06 AM
The blade is actually a lot more fun and useful in ToKW with the Wolf Cloak. If you use the tomahawk, Connor will automatically go high profile and lose the cloak. With the hidden blade you can just run around stabbing everyone left and right and before anyone realizes what's going on, you've dispatched 20 soldiers. Overpowered? Yes, but oh so much fun.

Can't argue with fun. :p

I-Like-Pie45
03-07-2013, 01:35 AM
The blade is actually a lot more fun and useful in ToKW with the Wolf Cloak. If you use the tomahawk, Connor will automatically go high profile and lose the cloak. With the hidden blade you can just run around stabbing everyone left and right and before anyone realizes what's going on, you've dispatched 20 soldiers. Overpowered? Yes, but oh so much fun.
I would've gotten the full sync on kill Ben Arnold if it weren't for the blasted tomahawks...

Gi1t
03-07-2013, 01:41 AM
I used the hidden blade all the time in AC1. Everything else was too easy. XD You could also use it by doing what I did in the ninth assassination and take the target by the collar run them into the wall, making them fall down and use the hidden blade when they're on the ground. :D

And I agree, once they made it a main weapon rather than a tool, there was just no detrimental aspect to using it. If you had no weapon, there was no reason to actively try to steal one from an armed guard. They need to make it more of a thing you can only use if you're incognito/surprising someone or if you're exceptional in combat. Outside of those situations, you should WANT a weapon, even if it's an improvised one. Using it AS a hidden blade is important, though I think one of the great things about the hidden blade is that it's a distinct weapon TYPE and it can be expanded on, modified and advanced to fit each time and character.

Jexx21
03-07-2013, 01:42 AM
I don't fine any issue with how they have treated the hidden blade in the games so far. Each iteration has featured a new version of it and its abilities so far (except for Liberation).

AllThatJuice
03-07-2013, 02:01 AM
I don't fine any issue with how they have treated the hidden blade in the games so far. Each iteration has featured a new version of it and its abilities so far (except for Liberation).

I agree. Using the hidden blade just for assassinating would be kinda..."lame". At the end of the day its a tool to be used, whether thats for combat OR assassinating

zzmorg82
03-07-2013, 02:40 AM
I agree. Using the hidden blade just for assassinating would be kinda..."lame". At the end of the day its a tool to be used, whether thats for combat OR assassinating

And I have to agree with both of you, the hidden blade in AC3 was kinda cool to use in knife form, definately shows futuristic qualities, which is why it's still iconic.

Eternal Reward
03-07-2013, 03:05 AM
And I have to agree with both of you, the hidden blade in AC3 was kinda cool to use in knife form, definately shows futuristic qualities, which is why it's still iconic.

Plus it has to evolve. I mean, we got the double hidden blades from AC2, plus the hookblade from ACR though they got rid of that :(, the convertible blade from AC3....wonder if AC4 blades will have anything special.

THE_JOKE_KING33
03-07-2013, 03:31 AM
Plus it has to evolve. I mean, we got the double hidden blades from AC2, plus the hookblade from ACR though they got rid of that :(, the convertible blade from AC3....wonder if AC4 blades will have anything special.

A Hidden Blade

...

IN THE BOOT! *joking*

Eternal Reward
03-07-2013, 03:40 AM
A Hidden Blade

...

IN THE BOOT! *joking*

You may laugh now, but just wait.....

http://i335.photobucket.com/albums/m450/RavenSly/Blade%20Weapons/Clothing%20Mounted%20Blades/Leg%20Blades/Foot%20Mounted%20Blades/DaggerShoes.jpg

ProletariatPleb
03-07-2013, 03:44 AM
Hiddden blade? What is that? Oh you mean that pansy weapon they wear on their hands... >_>

Gi1t
03-07-2013, 03:44 AM
Plus it has to evolve. I mean, we got the double hidden blades from AC2, plus the hookblade from ACR though they got rid of that :(, the convertible blade from AC3....wonder if AC4 blades will have anything special.

Well, my first vote would be for the hidden shovels you posted, but barring that, maybe some kind of incendiary device? One thing that seems like it would come in handy for a guy like Edward would be a way to immediately ignite something in the vicinity. (That way, you could have a lot more things to ignite than just super-rediculously flammable things like the inevitable 'exploding barrels'.) Sails, curtains, wood structures and (only in the most dire of emergencies), rum.

Eternal Reward
03-07-2013, 03:54 AM
Well, my first vote would be for the hidden shovels you posted,

:D I must give the credit for that wonderful device to henne-kei though, was his art/photoshop.


but barring that, maybe some kind of incendiary device? One thing that seems like it would come in handy for a guy like Edward would be a way to immediately ignite something in the vicinity. (That way, you could have a lot more things to ignite than just super-rediculously flammable things like the inevitable 'exploding barrels'.) Sails, curtains, wood structures and (only in the most dire of emergencies), rum.

Hmmm, I could see them adding a type of firebomb to his arsenal. Pirates did have forms of bombs with them.

Also, what the heck is with exploding barrels...exploding from a simple flintlock pistol shot? You would have more luck making those explode by simply fire the pistol near them!

RzaRecta357
03-07-2013, 04:19 AM
I just hope they got rid of the swiveling blade. Don't like it and the blades don't work as good.

pirate1802
03-07-2013, 04:39 AM
I just hope they got rid of the swiveling blade. Don't like it and the blades don't work as good.

By the looks of his hidden blades, they don't look swiveling. They are wider than the others and..seem fixed in their position O.o

ProletariatPleb
03-07-2013, 04:40 AM
By the looks of his hidden blades, they don't look movable. They are wider than the others and..seem fixed in their position O.o
Hidden harpoons.

Eternal Reward
03-07-2013, 04:42 AM
Hidden harpoons.

So thats the new feature for AC4....FISHING!

"In AC3 we let you unrealistically kill all types of animals with your bare hands(and hidden blades)....now....in AC4.....you can kill wildlife again with your bare hands(and hidden blades)except now....its.....FISHING!"

Gi1t
03-07-2013, 05:23 AM
Hidden harpoons.

This made me think of Edward standing on a couple of loose planks and sticking a large whale or shark in order to waterski behind them. :D Then I imagined him using the second one to switch between animals like spiderman while skiing across the sea. XD

Eternal Reward
03-07-2013, 05:28 AM
This made me think of Edward standing on a couple of loose planks and sticking a large whale or shark in order to waterski behind them. :D Then I imagined him using the second one to switch between animals like spiderman while skiing across the sea. XD

Nah, he uses his raft made of sea turtles for that. With rope made from his back hair.

LoyalACFan
03-07-2013, 05:46 AM
The hidden blade kind of lost its "oomph" a while ago, in my opinion. I don't think it has anything to do with it being used in combat, but rather that there's absolutely no point in using it anymore. In AC1, there was a real sense of satisfaction when you were able to sneak up behind a target and BAM, strike out of nowhere, but now, there's basically no stealth. Hopefully Edward brings this back to the table.

pirate1802
03-07-2013, 05:51 AM
The hidden blade kind of lost its "oomph" a while ago, in my opinion. I don't think it has anything to do with it being used in combat, but rather that there's absolutely no point in using it anymore. In AC1, there was a real sense of satisfaction when you were able to sneak up behind a target and BAM, strike out of nowhere, but now, there's basically no stealth. Hopefully Edward brings this back to the table.

Dat sound... so satisfying..

Gi1t
03-07-2013, 08:55 AM
Dat sound... so satisfying..

Funny how some sound effects can really stick in your mind as a defining part of a game and how awkward it can be when they take it or modify it and it just doesn't sound the same.

I miss the sound Banshees made in Halo 1.

pacmanate
03-07-2013, 10:33 AM
The hidden blade kind of lost its "oomph" a while ago, in my opinion. I don't think it has anything to do with it being used in combat, but rather that there's absolutely no point in using it anymore. In AC1, there was a real sense of satisfaction when you were able to sneak up behind a target and BAM, strike out of nowhere, but now, there's basically no stealth. Hopefully Edward brings this back to the table.

Agreed. I always thought of the hidden blade as more of a stealth weapon than a weapon that is used as the equivalent of a sword.

dxsxhxcx
03-07-2013, 11:03 AM
I agree with the OP, this weapon certainly lost its charm... I don't even know why we have swords and daggers, because the only thing they do is provide different kill animations...

I also hope someday they decide to create an assassin with only one hidden blade again, I don't know why double hidden blades should be the norm, it only makes an already easy game easier...

montagemik
03-07-2013, 11:04 AM
The hidden blade kind of lost its "oomph" a while ago, in my opinion. I don't think it has anything to do with it being used in combat, but rather that there's absolutely no point in using it anymore. In AC1, there was a real sense of satisfaction when you were able to sneak up behind a target and BAM, strike out of nowhere, but now, there's basically no stealth. Hopefully Edward brings this back to the table.

I heard stealth is back for AC4 & Stealth in the jungle/forest sections is 'reccomended' . :cool:

i'm happier with a Knife & hidden blade anyway - Any muppet can pull a trigger .

pacmanate
03-07-2013, 11:24 AM
Yes! I have also wanted one hidden blade since Ezio was done. I know we will never get one again :( Luckily Edwards hidden blades do not swivel which is a bonus for me. I just hope he cant use it in combat either :P, or if he can, only for counters.

ACfan443
03-07-2013, 11:38 AM
Funny how some sound effects can really stick in your mind as a defining part of a game and how awkward it can be when they take it or modify it and it just doesn't sound the same.

I miss the sound Banshees made in Halo 1.

The sound effects can play a bigger role than the animations to some extent. In AC1 the reason I loved the sword kills is because the sound effect was so brutal, gory and satisfying. AC2 onwards it just sounded slashy. This is the reason I love the tomahawk kills in AC3 but not the sword kills.

I also loved the sound of the hidden blade in AC1, it made you feel so stealthy and badass. I don't find myself using it as much anymore.

AjinkyaParuleka
03-07-2013, 12:33 PM
Swivel hidden blades,counter hidden blades,dual hidden blades are all fine for me.Just don't make us defend ourselves with those bracers.AC3 swivel blades made more sense.

leCarrot
03-07-2013, 01:09 PM
I still miss the noise the hidden blade used to make in AC1. :(

Ugh, I hated that. It was like, "Imma stab you in the back, very stealthy and stuff", and then stab-KA-CHING. And nobody heard no nuffink.
I preferred the way it was in AC2 with only high profile kills having the loud sound effect.

I think the hidden blades in AC3 were perfect for assassinating, as you could keep moving after stabbing someone; the only problem was that they never gave you a meaningful opportunity to do so. If they'd had some proper assassinations, even like the side quests in AC2, it would've been oh-so-much better.

ProletariatPleb
03-07-2013, 01:22 PM
Ugh, I hated that. It was like, "Imma stab you in the back, very stealthy and stuff", and then stab-KA-CHING. And nobody heard no nuffink.
Obviously it wasn't the blade making the sound, lol. It just gave a feeling of an intense moment and I enjoyed it.

pacmanate
03-07-2013, 01:25 PM
Obviously it wasn't the blade making the sound, lol. It just gave a feeling of an intense moment and I enjoyed it.

WRONG. The whole world heard the KER - CHING.

ProletariatPleb
03-07-2013, 01:27 PM
WRONG. The whole world heard the KER - CHING.
You are not my father, I hate you!

leCarrot
03-07-2013, 01:30 PM
Obviously it wasn't the blade making the sound, lol. It just gave a feeling of an intense moment and I enjoyed it.

I personally thought that sliding a blade into someone's lower back while in low profile should have been a very silent act, and the contradictory sound effect was, to me, quite distracting. It also grew pretty boring after having to listen to it all the time :p

But each to their own!

itsamea-mario
03-07-2013, 03:37 PM
I personally thought that sliding a blade into someone's lower back while in low profile should have been a very silent act, and the contradictory sound effect was, to me, quite distracting. It also grew pretty boring after having to listen to it all the time :p

But each to their own!

I liked it, made the whole thing seem more intesne.

pirate1802
03-07-2013, 03:46 PM
I liked it, made the whole thing seem more intesne.

Eggjackly!

D.I.D.
03-07-2013, 03:59 PM
I agree with the OP, this weapon certainly lost its charm... I don't even know why we have swords and daggers, because the only thing they do is provide different kill animations...

I also hope someday they decide to create an assassin with only one hidden blade again, I don't know why double hidden blades should be the norm, it only makes an already easy game easier...

I wouldn't be against only having one, but it makes sense to have two as well. The appeal of that device is largely down to the way it transforms the shape of the wearer into something animalistic. It's like a cat extending its claws, and Connor didn't really have that emphasis. Ezio's animations really emphasised the way the arm would straighten and extend, and then with the blades he had that stalking appearance. Turning the blade into something that detaches from the body interferes with it seeming like an extension of the person's skeleton, and you don't have quite the same belief in its solidity.

MODS: your filter's gone mad again. I just had to edit this post to say "animalistic" because the word "b*stial" (where the * is an e) was considered profane

Dimension.
03-07-2013, 04:45 PM
I agree with this. I rarely remembered that I had a hidden blade at all during AC3.
I only needed the tomohawk for everything from hunting to assassinations and combat.
The difficulty level of the game was the problem. It was ridiculously easy. There was no need to sneak up on anyone to kill them with the hidden blade. There was no need to switch weapons at any point. I also only remembered the gun when I had to blow up powder reserves or open hidden paths in the underground.
With the tomahawk I could take on the whole city and I'm not really that good at action games.

If Ubisoft increased the difficulty, the hidden blade would find its use again as the need for killing people silently would be greater (using any other melee weapon should lead to a high profile kill).
I'm not saying that the other AC games were more difficult. Combat in AC1 was easy when you got counter kill, but the game had a greater focus on sneaking and assassinations and so putting the spotlight on the hidden blade.

Ac3 had maybe too much focus on the Revolution (which I did find interesting) and the Templars and too little focus on the Assassins with their creed and their hidden blade. Having the order basically eradicated before the time of the game didn't help.