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View Full Version : Modern day story in ACIV...should it be removed?



monster_rambo
03-06-2013, 03:49 AM
Besides playing as a "research analyst" in Assassin's Creed IV and living through Desmond's memories, do you think if there is in anyway that we can be more immerse into the modern day/ templar/ conspiracy/ TWCB story? After careful observations with the all of the Assassin's Creed games, I believe that the developer's attempt to present this duality or tries to incorporate a present day element is in many ways hurting the series. If you think about it, ACI - ACR, the present day story was intriguing and shrouded in mysteries because it draws on many revelations and conspiracy theories and ties it into history, but because they were also focusing on history; the gameplay with Desmond was lacking. In ACIII, when we finally got to play as Desmond, the story and the ending was underwhelming and disappointing because it did not answer many of our questions in the past series. In addition, the gameplay and many of the cutscenes were poorly executed because Desmond and the NPCs carried many of the same animations as Connor/enemies. Is it really too much to focus on two stories at the same time knowing that one of them will fail or we will find lacking? Do you think it is better to just tell one story in a game and lead it up to the modern day story because in that way, they can divert their attention into perfecting in one area instead of failing in one or more areas of the the narrative?!

mazohystic
03-06-2013, 03:55 AM
I love the modern day story but lately it's nothing but disappointments. But I think the biggest disappointment for me would be removing it completely from future games. I would stop playing AC games altogether. But I'm just one person. I hope Ubisoft will breathe new life into the modern day story. I'm honestly not expecting much though.

pirate1802
03-06-2013, 04:01 AM
They should remove the gameplay parts, because they were imho, horribadable. Even in AC3. Only the parkour was somewhat decent. Social blending and hand-to-hand combat (in a 21st century high tech lab area) is about as fitting as a pig in a birthday party. AC3 showed that modern day missions couldn't move forward without being ****ing ridiculous (which happened in AC3) or becoming a Splinter Cell/GTA clone. So imo hey are taking the right decision. They are cutting the gameplay parts out, but I don't know why people are saying they are axing the whole modern day part. Its still there, just not as missions. The story will still move forward, you'll probably hear about Juno and her exploits. And let's not forget this researcher is delving into Desmond's memories for a reason, might have something to do with stopping Juno.

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 04:04 AM
They should keep the story parts I suppose but if they want to keep the gameplay it should be completely OPTIONAL. I do not enjoy being out of the animus.

pirate1802
03-06-2013, 04:11 AM
I do not enjoy being out of the animus.

To fight gun-totting 21st century guards with knives trolololol

But who can blame you? Apparently the guards routinely forget they have a gun.

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 04:12 AM
To fight gun-totting 21st century guards with knives trolololol

But who can blame you? Apparently the guards routinely forget they have a gun.
And Desmond doesn't die when shot.

Assassin_M
03-06-2013, 04:14 AM
just make it third person..

first person sucks

monster_rambo
03-06-2013, 04:25 AM
They should remove the gameplay parts, because they were imho, horribadable. Even in AC3. Only the parkour was somewhat decent. Social blending and hand-to-hand combat (in a 21st century high tech lab area) is about as fitting as a pig in a birthday party. AC3 showed that modern day missions couldn't move forward without being ****ing ridiculous (which happened in AC3) or becoming a Splinter Cell/GTA clone. So imo hey are taking the right decision. They are cutting the gameplay parts out, but I don't know why people are saying they are axing the whole modern day part. Its still there, just not as missions. The story will still move forward, you'll probably hear about Juno and her exploits. And let's not forget this researcher is delving into Desmond's memories for a reason, might have something to do with stopping Juno.

Maybe, but if they are incorporating modern day narrative into Assassin's Creed, people are going to be expecting and demand for modern day gameplay because the story is set up in a way where you relive the lives of your ancestors so that we can gain abilities or find resolutions to the end of the world or fighting oppression from Juno. However, the conflict lies in the fact that because they incorporate a modern day story, there is a conflict of interest in trying to perfect the gameplay and storytelling aspect in the present day because the majority of the focus, resources, and emphasis are directed to telling the pirate story. They either can remove the modern story aspect from the game completely and simply incorporate it later in the series, or have a seperate development team that works in close ties with the historical/main story team where they can focus on improving some aspects of the modern day story. And just to add, I think some aspects of GTA/ splinter cell/ far cry in some ways can add to the gameplay if they are trying to make the modern assassin more realistic.

pirate1802
03-06-2013, 04:35 AM
However, the conflict lies in the fact that because they incorporate a modern day story, there is a conflict of interest in trying to perfect the gameplay and storytelling aspect in the present day because the majority of the focus, resources, and emphasis are directed to telling the pirate story.

Its not about resources, its about originality. We all saw how ridiculous hand-to-hand combat looks in a 21st century setup. It works fine in historical settings but not in modern day clearly. Using a gun is a must in this day and age. In some situation I can understand you not wanting to use a firearm, but why must your opponent let go of his weapon too? And when you do include guns it virtually becomes a Splinter Cell ?GTA clone. Again, it has nothing to do with resources but maintaining your separate identity as a franchise. I've seen people write about how the modern day assassinations but I don't think they realize that they're asking virtually fo a SC ripoff.

Anyway, so that's the problem. Incorporate guns and become a ripoff or don't incorporate them and look ridiculous. How do we solve this problem? In one of two ways. Either find the right balance between gun and nongun gameplay. They tried to do this in AC3 but failed. Or cut the modern day gameplay out altogether, or make them optional. This is what they chose and I honestly think it's a smart move.

LoyalACFan
03-06-2013, 04:36 AM
just make it third person..

first person sucks

If we're talking about action sequences, then yes it does. But I'm envisioning the modern stuff being restricted to the researcher sitting in an office, with occasional visits and emails from the company's higher-ups to inform you about what's going on in the ongoing Assassin-Templar war, and updates about Juno as events unfold.

But honestly, after the string of disappointments the modern story has been, I'd be perfectly happy if it was completely dropped. Watch Dogs basically looks like what a modern AC should be, and it's even made by the same company. Keep AC historical, and move the modern stuff to Watch Dogs where it can be implemented properly without being built on top of mechanics designed for 18th-century adventures.

Assassin_M
03-06-2013, 04:38 AM
If we're talking about action sequences, then yes it does. But I'm envisioning the modern stuff being restricted to the researcher sitting in an office, with occasional visits and emails from the company's higher-ups to inform you about what's going on in the ongoing Assassin-Templar war, and updates about Juno as events unfold.

But honestly, after the string of disappointments the modern story has been, I'd be perfectly happy if it was completely dropped. Watch Dogs basically looks like what a modern AC should be, and it's even made by the same company. Keep AC historical, and move the modern stuff to Watch Dogs where it can be implemented properly without being built on top of mechanics designed for 18th-century adventures.
I hate First Person in general...I despise it even if all we`re gonna do is walk and push a button...I HATE IT !!

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 04:40 AM
Don't you dare call Splinter Cell an assassination game, it was about Stealth, infiltration, spying on conversations using awesome tools, looking for evidence. They may have made it a third person CoD but it's still not assassination >_>

That said, you're right. Modern day combat stuff is ridiculous.

monster_rambo
03-06-2013, 04:40 AM
Its not about resources, its about originality. We all saw how ridiculous hand-to-hand combat looks in a 21st century setup. It works fine in historical settings but not in modern day clearly. Using a gun is a must in this day and age. In some situation I can understand you not wanting to use a firearm, but why must your opponent let go of his weapon too? And when you do include guns it virtually becomes a Splinter Cell ?GTA clone. Again, it has nothing to do with resources but maintaining your separate identity as a franchise. I've seen people write about how the modern day assassinations but I don't think they realize that they're asking virtually fo a SC ripoff.

Anyway, so that's the problem. Incorporate guns and become a ripoff or don't incorporate them and look ridiculous. How do we solve this problem? In one of two ways. Either find the right balance between gun and nongun gameplay. They tried to do this in AC3 but failed. Or cut the modern day gameplay out altogether, or make them optional. This is what they chose and I honestly think it's a smart move.

Right but eventually you will have have to play in the present because of Juno (which by the way I don't understand why we only find out about 3 main TWCB when there are many more that existed..) back to the topic...there is no avoiding of playing in the modern day. If they want to make it realistic, they need to borrow elements from SC/ GTA, and put there own twist to it with a bit of Jason Bourne style and Assassin's Creed combat.

monster_rambo
03-06-2013, 04:43 AM
Don't you dare call Splinter Cell an assassination game, it was about Stealth, infiltration, spying on conversations using awesome tools, looking for evidence. They may have made it a third person CoD but it's still not assassination >_>

That said, you're right. Modern day combat stuff is ridiculous.

How about Hitman? Stealth and assassination.

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 04:44 AM
How about Hitman? Stealth and assassination.
Yeah, but Desmond is not on 47's level :P

LoyalACFan
03-06-2013, 04:45 AM
I hate First Person in general...I despise it even if all we`re gonna do is walk and push a button...I HATE IT !!

Yes, well, I'm not a fan of it either, but at this point, I'm not getting all worked up about it either way. I don't care about the modern plot at all after they ended Desmond's story so terribly, so I'll just be breezing through it even if it's third-person.

pirate1802
03-06-2013, 04:47 AM
Don't you dare call Splinter Cell an assassination game, it was about Stealth, infiltration, spying on conversations using awesome tools, looking for evidence. They may have made it a third person CoD but it's still not assassination >_>



Yeah but if you imagine a modern day AC, it would probably look like SC. Using tools and gadgets to infiltrate etc.


Right but eventually you will have have to play in the present because of Juno (which by the way I don't understand why we only find out about 3 main TWCB when there are many more that existed..) back to the topic...there is no avoiding of playing in the modern day. If they want to make it realistic, they need to borrow elements from SC/ GTA, and put there own twist to it with a bit of Jason Bourne style and Assassin's Creed combat.

They can avoid it if they're smart. Fight Juno in a virtual enviornment or something.

Layytez
03-06-2013, 04:47 AM
Hell no otherwise we would be reliving memories with no underlining objective.

Assassin_M
03-06-2013, 04:47 AM
Yes, well, I'm not a fan of it either, but at this point, I'm not getting all worked up about it either way. I don't care about the modern plot at all after they ended Desmond's story so terribly, so I'll just be breezing through it even if it's third-person.
That`s the thing I guess..

My favorite Modern day was from AC I. I loved it till the end, although I sometimes questioned the execution, so it`s a disappointment for me to have it be first person

LoyalACFan
03-06-2013, 04:50 AM
That`s the thing I guess..

My favorite Modern day was from AC I. I loved it till the end, although I sometimes questioned the execution, so it`s a disappointment for me to have it be first person

Same, I actually enjoyed the modern stuff in AC1. It was mysterious; you kind of had to piece things together yourself. Then afterward, they tried to turn Desmond into an action hero and it all went to hell.

pirate1802
03-06-2013, 04:51 AM
How about Hitman? Stealth and assassination.

Then it becomes Hitman clone >.>. Thing is, modern day stealth have been done over and over again. Nothing new under the sun. What sets AC apart from the crowd is the historical setting. There's not one game doing what AC's doing. That's its pull. If they incorporate major modern day sections it'd either look ridiculous )like in AC3) or it'd join the crowd.

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 05:00 AM
Then it becomes Hitman clone >.>. Thing is, modern day stealth have been done over and over again. Nothing new under the sun. What sets AC apart from the crowd is the historical setting. There's not one game doing what AC's doing. That's its pull. If they incorporate major modern day sections it'd either look ridiculous )like in AC3) or it'd join the crowd.

http://puu.sh/2cRTh

monster_rambo
03-06-2013, 05:10 AM
Then it becomes Hitman clone >.>. Thing is, modern day stealth have been done over and over again. Nothing new under the sun. What sets AC apart from the crowd is the historical setting. There's not one game doing what AC's doing. That's its pull. If they incorporate major modern day sections it'd either look ridiculous )like in AC3) or it'd join the crowd.

Right, but the core element of gameplay draws its inspiration from other games or sources so in essence, nothing really is "new". What is creative is that if they are making a modern day story, they need to take known elements or ideas from modern day gameplay and incorporate into their own so that there is a sense of realism without having to lose its identity of AC. I still think, that if executed perfectly, a modern day/ history story can work well in coexistence in an AC game. Of course it would be really hard to pull off. I am not sure about fighting Juno in virtual reality...I mean essentially we have been communicating to Juno through a virtual medium so I am not sure if virtual reality is really anything new or welcoming for players to jump into a virtual reality setting after exploring the historical context.

Jexx21
03-06-2013, 05:18 AM
no it shouldn't be removed

that would be like removing the ring finger from the hidden blade hand

unnecessary

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 05:18 AM
no it shouldn't be removed

that would be like removing the ring finger from the hidden blade hand

unnecessary
But the story itself has become unnecessary.

Legendz54
03-06-2013, 05:19 AM
No Dont remove it, the modern day story is what fascinated me the most about AC, I agree some things were badly screwed up. Here is some things i believe they stuffed up in the modern day.

1:Subject 16's Introduction in Revelations

2:The Revelations that were meant to be in Revelations.

3:They could of had a good Desmond and Lucy relationship there but they screwed that up by making her a Templar

4: Desmond's Conclusion was screwed up.

5:They could of had a great standoff epic battle between Cross and Desmond.

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 05:21 AM
No Dont remove it, the modern day story is what fascinated me the most about AC, I agree some things were badly screwed up. Here is some things i believe they stuffed up in the modern day.

1:Subject 16's Introduction in Revelations

2:The Revelations that were meant to be in Revelations.

3:They could of had a good Desmond and Lucy relationship there but they screwed that up by making her a Templar

4: Desmond's Conclusion was screwed up.

5:They could of had a great standoff epic battle between Cross and Desmond.
That's basically.....everything?

Jexx21
03-06-2013, 05:22 AM
we still need to find out what the hell juno is doing

Legendz54
03-06-2013, 05:22 AM
That's basically.....everything?

Oh theres more I can come up with but I cant be bothered now.

pirate1802
03-06-2013, 05:23 AM
Oh theres more i can come up with but i cant be bothered now.

lol I think what Sidwa meant that what you posted basically coves all of modern day plot. They've screwed it up fully from start to end.

Perk89
03-06-2013, 05:24 AM
there's a ton of good story potential in the fact that the Assassins are on the brink of extinction and we have a ton of Templar mystery characters such as Alan Rikkin. I think Ubi would do well to focus their modern day efforts on those plot elements.

Sadly, it looks like we're getting Templar hugging with this release.

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 05:24 AM
lol I think what Sidwa meant that what you posted basically coves all of modern day plot. They've screwed it up fully from start to end.
Precisely piratewa.

Jexx21
03-06-2013, 05:26 AM
but sid hates the amazing spider man which i loved so i can't trust him. *sarcasm btw, except for me loving tasm, since I do*

zomg my head hurts i should sleep ag'jd

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 05:27 AM
but sid hates the amazing spider man which i loved so i can't trust him. *sarcasm btw, except for me loving tasm, since I do*

zomg my head hurts i should sleep ag'jd
I don't "hate" it, I just think that the pacing was very odd and it wasn't THAT good.

Legendz54
03-06-2013, 05:28 AM
lol I think what Sidwa meant that what you posted basically coves all of modern day plot. They've screwed it up fully from start to end.

lol I know, I replied that to basically say what you just told me now. They screwed up from start to finish. Its a shame though there was so much potential.

Jexx21
03-06-2013, 05:29 AM
well it certainly wasn't as bad as transformers

but then i realized that in that convo we had no idea what the other meant since I meant the amount of detail they had in the transforming parts of the battle between optimus and megatron and i think you meant just story correlation

...still think tasm is the best spodey movie

monster_rambo
03-06-2013, 05:30 AM
Oh theres more I can come up with but I cant be bothered now.

They came up with something workable and they screwed themselves over.

ProletariatPleb
03-06-2013, 05:30 AM
lol I know, I replied that to basically say what you just told me now. They screwed up from start to finish. Its a shame though there was so much potential.
I've come to realize that the main reason why I absolutely love AC is that I see so much potential, wasted a lot of times, but potential nonetheless.