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Wolfmeister1010
02-28-2013, 01:44 AM
Some say that AC3 was the best in the series, many say it is the worst, some say that they are done with the series because it sucks. Well, I am here to share my idea about whether AC3 was a "success" or not, and how the series can be improved.
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10 ways it FAILED

1. Terrible story-campaign pacing. This game holds the trophy for longest lasting tutorial in the history of gaming.

2. The music. Lorne Balfe is fine, but he can't compare to Jesper Kyd. Also, WHERE THE HELL is the ambient music. I'm sorry ASSASSIN_M, I was wrong.
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3. Poor character development. Connor doesn't get the credit he deserves because the only way you can grow fond of him is by completing side quests that not many people do any way. Achilles, Ziio, Washington, Connor's friend, and Connor himself were under developed.
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4. Homestead. I barely used the upgrade and econmic/trading system. It was confusing and unnecessary, and has no tie in to the story or campaign at all.. I wish that the homestead could have been upgraded like in AC2 Villa, now I'm stuck with the manor's TERRIBLE lighting.
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5. Frontier. This area is under developed. The E3 demo showed a fully fleshed out patriot camp and wagons. However, the final game frontier features a small selection of animals, extremely rare occurences of guards and convoys, and an annoying emptiness that feels underdeveloped. It feels like Ubisoft completed the scenery like the trees and foliage and half-assed everything else.
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6. No stealth. It is preposturous to call this game a "stealth" game without even the option to ****ING CROUCH. NOBODY USES THE CROWDS FOR STEALTH, and the linear bushes do little to add to the experience. So no, ubisoft, AC is NOT a "social stealth" game. Starting to PISS ME OFF. I hope they see this.
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7. Bugs. A ubisoft game has never had so many bugs in a seemingly "polished" game. There are still many bugs in the game that the terrible ubisoft support has continued to ignore.

8. Side missions. No story value, boring, generic, linear, and unnecessary.

9. Mission design. They are linear, boring, and the mission constraints take away all the freedom from the game. Not to mention how it doesn't put enough emphasis on assassinations

10. Terrible enemy AI. They are clunky, stupid, un dangerous, non threatening, and almost as bad as skyrim guards.


10 ways it Succeeded.

1. The improvement of AI. aside from enemy AI, the civilians got major upgrades, and the addition of animals is awesome.

2. Tree-Running. Feels fluid and natural. Great innovation.

3. Story. I feel that Connor's story is better and more realistic than ezio's or altair's, and it dives deeper into the assassin-templar conflict and how its not always black and white

4. Weather and terrain. rolling hills, uneven terrain, and cliffs are great. Snow and rain feels right, and the snow on the ground is so perfect i could cry. It moulds perfectly to your feet and changes depth.

5. Combat. More fluid and brutal than ever. Many people seem to forget how difficult it is to program combat on non even terrain. The weapons actually connect, and it looks perfect.

6. Naval missions. They were very fun and i wish they just had more story value.

7. Freerunning. The new building and window passthrough is fun. Good that you only need to hold one button. Climbing looks and feels more fluid.

8. Sound effects. The clanging of weapons and guns firing sound real and perfect.

9. Graphics. The best water and eyes i have ever seen in a videogame. Looks better than ever.

10. Size. The cities are HUGE and the frontier is even bigger. Great job.


10 ways future ACs can be improved.

1. Bring back jesper kyd. We need his music.

2. More urban environments. We need tall, narrow cities to feel like an assassin. The wide streeets and low buildings in AC3 just didnt feel good.

3. Upgrade the assassins guild. Make them more unique. Make an assassins guild hq again. Increases customizability. Increase usefulness.

4. Allow more customization. Multiple outfits, more dyes, maybe even change specific things like the shape of you hood and the type of boots you wear. Also customization of weapons and mounts.

5. More Connor. All connor haters get out. His story is not done yet, and cant be completed through an alternate timeline dlc. If AC4 black flag includes edward kenway, then it should also include his grandson as well. We need more connor. Haytham is welcome too but mostly connor. I wont rest until he gets the respect he desserves. Just because he isnt a funny, sexual, smart mouth womanizer batman assassin like ezio doesnt mean he isnt a good character. His voice acting is FINE since that is what native americans sound like. He is more realistic and serious than ezio, and deserves more than all the hate he gets.

6. Upgrade and revamp stealth. Allow use of crouching, rolling, hiding in shadows or low walls, upgraded detection system.

7. Upgraded naval system with the ability to hire your own crew, upgrade and customize the ships exterior and interior, make it a floating home and base. Allow naval freeroaming and ability to dock at islands and cities.

8. Get rid of mission constraints and make missions less linear with multiple options on how to complete a mission.

9. Random encounters of civillians in need and such like in red dead redemption. Would make the game so much better.

10. Upgrading property system Like in AC2 with better homestead system, more customization of house, ability to make it like a fort with guards and walls, or a town with many citizens. Allow renovation, make it crappy shantytown from the start. Allow individual building renovations like in the villa. More effictive crafting and trading system.

Bonus: innovate innovate innovate!! New ideas and fresh starts are welcome and needed to keep the AC series fresh.


Thanks guys.vplease comment on which parts you agree with and which you dont. Participate in the poll and remember to keep an ear out for news tonight on AC 4 blackflag featuring edward kenway (haythams dad) and a pirate theme thatctakes place in the carribean and possibly london, for that is his home. Thanks!

dbuddy101
02-28-2013, 02:13 AM
Mostly, a lot of the ideas seemed like things that could really add to the AC universe, however there are some things that I disagree with.

I like the Frontier, and I don't think it is as empty as you say. You can find the things that they have in the E3 demo, and it doesn't seem to hard for me to go hunting as long as you understand how the animals spawn. For example, in the Homestead, certain types of animal, like deer, spawn in specific locations. While one district of the Frontier, like Lexington for example, will have many different kinds of animals, but those animals spawn in specific locations in that district (that is of course if the hunting system outside of the Homestead work the same way). I will say that they needed to have more places that clues spawned, because I feel that tracking the animal makes me feel a lot more accomplished than randomly encountering one.

I also feel like the stealth was improved on in this game than it was in previous games, but can still use a lot of work to be able to rival the combat as an excellent and fun way to take out enemies. I don't think that adding new mechanics will fix the problem, because AC 3 did a good bit of that. I think that they need to improve other things, such as detection. It seemed that at times detection was random, and that I might be detected for doing nothing or not be detected when doing obvious things. By improving the mechanics that they already have along with adding new ones, I think that stealth can become an even more useful and powerful pillar than we seem to think of it as, and could also solve the problem where people feel like less of an Assassin.

While I find urban environments to be important in AC, I honestly think that the urban environments in AC3 were great. I don't understand why you would need narrow streets to "feel like an Assassin." That doesn't seem to make that much sense to me. I think it is just that each city that we have had in AC games so far did have narrow streets, but I don't think that the change is one that is too bad. I thoroughly enjoyed the cities in AC, my only two complaints being that the cities felt different, but not unique enough, and that There should have been more ways to bridge the distance of the wide streets on roof tops than just the clotheslines. I thought that the trees weren't built that well in cities compared to frontiers, and that it was sometimes difficult to use the trees in the city to bridge the gaps.

Wolfmeister1010
02-28-2013, 02:30 AM
Mostly, a lot of the ideas seemed like things that could really add to the AC universe, however there are some things that I disagree with.

I like the Frontier, and I don't think it is as empty as you say. You can find the things that they have in the E3 demo, and it doesn't seem to hard for me to go hunting as long as you understand how the animals spawn. For example, in the Homestead, certain types of animal, like deer, spawn in specific locations. While one district of the Frontier, like Lexington for example, will have many different kinds of animals, but those animals spawn in specific locations in that district (that is of course if the hunting system outside of the Homestead work the same way). I will say that they needed to have more places that clues spawned, because I feel that tracking the animal makes me feel a lot more accomplished than randomly encountering one.

I also feel like the stealth was improved on in this game than it was in previous games, but can still use a lot of work to be able to rival the combat as an excellent and fun way to take out enemies. I don't think that adding new mechanics will fix the problem, because AC 3 did a good bit of that. I think that they need to improve other things, such as detection. It seemed that at times detection was random, and that I might be detected for doing nothing or not be detected when doing obvious things. By improving the mechanics that they already have along with adding new ones, I think that stealth can become an even more useful and powerful pillar than we seem to think of it as, and could also solve the problem where people feel like less of an Assassin.

While I find urban environments to be important in AC, I honestly think that the urban environments in AC3 were great. I don't understand why you would need narrow streets to "feel like an Assassin." That doesn't seem to make that much sense to me. I think it is just that each city that we have had in AC games so far did have narrow streets, but I don't think that the change is one that is too bad. I thoroughly enjoyed the cities in AC, my only two complaints being that the cities felt different, but not unique enough, and that There should have been more ways to bridge the distance of the wide streets on roof tops than just the clotheslines. I thought that the trees weren't built that well in cities compared to frontiers, and that it was sometimes difficult to use the trees in the city to bridge the gaps.

The frontier is EMPTY compared to the red dead redemption world, and that was a FREAKING DESERT. The cities are, true, too similar and there arent enough trees inbetween buildings to make a difference. Also, despite the fact that the revolution is happening, we never see the two sides fight except in specific missions. There are no patriot camps in the frontier other than forts, and the camp in the E3 demo was perfect in the sense thatnit made you feel like you were there withthe troops. I like the hunting system and I think it worked out gor the most part. Truthefully, the narrow streets and tall buildings are perfect for an assassin. The open streets and low buildings are not. AC3 didnt give us enough ways to be stealthy. You cant honestly believe that the stealth in the game was good, can you?

Wolfmeister1010
02-28-2013, 02:32 AM
Boston and newyork did feel like the same exact city thought, your right about that

Rugterwyper32
02-28-2013, 03:01 AM
Some say that AC3 was the best in the series, many say it is the worst, some say that they are done with the series because it sucks. Well, I am here to share my idea about whether AC3 was a "success" or not, and how the series can be improved.
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10 ways it FAILED

1. Terrible story-campaign pacing. This game holds the trophy for longest lasting tutorial in the history of gaming.

I kinda agree with this. While I enjoy the early part of the game, the pacing could do with some improvement. I still don't find it as bad as the intro of Fallout 3, though, after 10 characters created that entire first part of the game is maddening.

2. The music. Lorne Balfe is fine, but he can't compare to Jesper Kyd. Also, WHERE THE HELL is the ambient music. I'm sorry ASSASSIN_M, I was wrong.

Here is where I'll disagree. I think Lorne Balfe deserves more of a chance before we can judge what he does. I don't know if it's a design decision or a bug or what what, but the few times ambient music came up in AC3 I found myself thinking "this is great". The problem with the music, as I said in the ambient music topic, is not the music itself, but the lack thereof. After hearing his work from TokW, I certainly see the potential and he could make a great composer from the series once he gets the hang of it.
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3. Poor character development. Connor doesn't get the credit he deserves because the only way you can grow fond of him is by completing side quests that not many people do any way. Achilles, Ziio, Washington, Connor's friend, and Connor himself were under developed.

I think that a lot of this goes connected to point 1. The pacing felt all over the place, and I think that the fact the game was too ambitious on other aspects and kinda skimped on this because of that doesn't help. I almost feel that certain Homestead missions should be main missions, to be honest. I think that would have helped a lot.
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4. Homestead. I barely used the upgrade and econmic/trading system. It was confusing and unnecessary, and has no tie in to the story or campaign at all.. I wish that the homestead could have been upgraded like in AC2 Villa, now I'm stuck with the manor's TERRIBLE lighting.

I personally like the ideas they had for the Homestead and to a degree preferred it to the villa because of how different the place was from Monteriggioni (one being a city under Mario, the other one being a small manor turned into a town). I do think, however, the crafting and economic system should have been MUCH better than what they were. There is a lot of potential that was ruined by a terrible UI.
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5. Frontier. This area is under developed. The E3 demo showed a fully fleshed out patriot camp and wagons. However, the final game frontier features a small selection of animals, extremely rare occurences of guards and convoys, and an annoying emptiness that feels underdeveloped. It feels like Ubisoft completed the scenery like the trees and foliage and half-assed everything else.

Personally, I was impressed with the Frontier. Getting that working alone must have been programming hell with Satan poking the programmers just because, so I can't blame them for not getting everything in. I do hope, however, that now that they have the system in place we'll see a more developed Frontier-type area. We've started seeing it in TokW, so it feels like natural progression that they get more in.
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6. No stealth. It is preposturous to call this game a "stealth" game without even the option to ****ING CROUCH. NOBODY USES THE CROWDS FOR STEALTH, and the linear bushes do little to add to the experience. So no, ubisoft, AC is NOT a "social stealth" game. Starting to PISS ME OFF. I hope they see this.

I do agree stealth can be improved. I personally like the social stealth aspect that there is, but it still requires improvement. I think that an option for outfits to actually have a purpose as disguises of sorts would help massively with the social stealth aspect they aim for, while adding some extra classic stealth elements could help. Taking cover against walls alone did a lot for me, and I feel a few more would be fantastic. The potential is there, a few additions and good mission design would help in that sense.
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7. Bugs. A ubisoft game has never had so many bugs in a seemingly "polished" game. There are still many bugs in the game that the terrible ubisoft support has continued to ignore.

Admittedly, they've come up with some decent patches, and with all the stuff they had I can imagine that coding for bugs is a pain. Considering they've got more of a hang of their own engine, though, I expect the next game to get more polish and to have less bugs. In my own experience, I didn't have many issues with bugs, but then again, when it comes to bugs personal experience tends to vary. Or maybe I didn't feel there were that many as I play Sonic 06 at least once every few months to appreciate the good games I have and remind myself "it could be worse"

8. Side missions. No story value, boring, generic, linear, and unnecessary.

Side missions should go back to the style they were in Brotherhood. That was the one game where I felt side missions actually accomplished something. This game had the potential (how many times have I used this word?) but again, it feels like among all the things they were aiming for these were largely ignored. Sad, because I can imagine that we could have had some great sidequests given some more focus.

9. Mission design. They are linear, boring, and the mission constraints take away all the freedom from the game. Not to mention how it doesn't put enough emphasis on assassinations

Some other people have mentioned it, but I feel that rather than mission constraints we should have optional objectives that don't feel like constraints but actual optional objectives. This game got to the point where it felt that the missions were based around the constraints rather than optional objectives that add to the mission. As for assassinations, yes, I believe the focus should be more. And when it comes to that, take cue from the forts. Get the objective, find a way to get it done.

10. Terrible enemy AI. They are clunky, stupid, un dangerous, non threatening, and almost as bad as skyrim guards.

Enemy AI still has to improve, certainly. Agreed here.

10 ways it Succeeded.

1. The improvement of AI. aside from enemy AI, the civilians got major upgrades, and the addition of animals is awesome.

Agreed again. Not much to say.

2. Tree-Running. Feels fluid and natural. Great innovation.

I'd connect this with point 5 from before. They really got that well. Now that they know how that works, they should focus on improving the areas that are focused around this mechanic by adding more things.

3. Story. I feel that Connor's story is better and more realistic than ezio's or altair's, and it dives deeper into the assassin-templar conflict and how its not always black and white

Agreed again.

4. Weather and terrain. rolling hills, uneven terrain, and cliffs are great. Snow and rain feels right, and the snow on the ground is so perfect i could cry. It moulds perfectly to your feet and changes depth.

Once again, I agree. Messing around in the snow is something I have a lot of fun with, and I tend to use the season hack to keep the game in winter while free roaming. I was impressed by it.

5. Combat. More fluid and brutal than ever. Many people seem to forget how difficult it is to program combat on non even terrain. The weapons actually connect, and it looks perfect.

Agreed again.

6. Naval missions. They were very fun and i wish they just had more story value.

I go back to point 8 of before. Had they not been way too ambitious, I can imagine some more optional naval missions with story value in them would have been fantastic.

7. Freerunning. The new building and window passthrough is fun. Good that you only need to hold one button. Climbing looks and feels more fluid.

Agreed again.

8. Sound effects. The clanging of weapons and guns firing sound real and perfect.

I... kinda don't know about this one. In many ways, they got it right. In others... Not quite. I mean mainly when it comes to city sounds. The cities feel dead. Better sound design in them would have helped a lot. But other than that, I feel it was pretty spot-on.

9. Graphics. The best water and eyes i have ever seen in a videogame. Looks better than ever.

Agreed. The animations amazed me, too. Really fluid and well done.

10. Size. The cities are HUGE and the frontier is even bigger. Great job.

And once more I agree. I loved the scale of this game.


10 ways future ACs can be improved.

1. Bring back jesper kyd. We need his music.

Pointing back to point 2 of the negatives. Jesper Kyd is great, but I think Balfe has some great composing skills that he hasn't gotten the chance to show yet. TokW convinced me that he can do something amazing, next game he's in will tell if he's worthy of staying.

2. More urban environments. We need tall, narrow cities to feel like an assassin. The wide streeets and low buildings in AC3 just didnt feel good.

Disagreed. While I like the big urban enviroments, I feel that varying the kinds of urban locations we have in the series adds different dynamics and makes you adapt around the style of the location. Personally, New York is one of my favorite cities in the series, with some problems holding it back from being my favorite (mainly the lack of good missions there and the overall dumb AI). In any case, I feel that so long as the devs can find ways to make free running entertaining in the cities, even if they need to modify them a little and make them not fully historically accurate, I'll welcome it. Acre had a Gothic cathedral way before Gothic architecture was introduced and Rome had Baroque looking architecture in the city itself even though it was set in the Renaissance.

3. Upgrade the assassins guild. Make them more unique. Make an assassins guild hq again. Increases customizability. Increase usefulness.

I both agree and disagree. The lack of a set HQ in this game made sense, and I liked how the Brotherhood was portrayed in this game, seeing how Connor was taking it somewhere from the total shambles it was. And I felt the assassins in this game felt more unique than the others. So yeah, HQ I feel that it would be more dictated by the storyline of the game. However, I do agree on the last 2 points, specially on the last one. Considering we had all those functions for the assassins, I feel that they had no purpose, pretty much. And there's so much they could have worked for.

4. Allow more customization. Multiple outfits, more dyes, maybe even change specific things like the shape of you hood and the type of boots you wear. Also customization of weapons and mounts.

I kinda want more outfits and some variety for them to work with the social stealth aspect. More dyes would be nice, though, and maybe different combinations of dyes according to parts of the outfit? I don't know.

5. More Connor. All connor haters get out. His story is not done yet, and cant be completed through an alternate timeline dlc. If AC4 black flag includes edward kenway, then it should also include his grandson as well. We need more connor. Haytham is welcome too but mostly connor. I wont rest until he gets the respect he desserves. Just because he isnt a funny, sexual, smart mouth womanizer batman assassin like ezio doesnt mean he isnt a good character. His voice acting is FINE since that is what native americans sound like. He is more realistic and serious than ezio, and deserves more than all the hate he gets.

Yes. Agreed.

6. Upgrade and revamp stealth. Allow use of crouching, rolling, hiding in shadows or low walls, upgraded detection system.

This could work. I would still like to keep the stealth aspect, but some more classic stealth moves would only add to the experience.

7. Upgraded naval system with the ability to hire your own crew, upgrade and customize the ships exterior and interior, make it a floating home and base. Allow naval freeroaming and ability to dock at islands and cities.

With what we know from the next game, we might just get that to a degree. We'll see how they keep upgrading that as time passes, though.

8. Get rid of mission constraints and make missions less linear with multiple options on how to complete a mission.

Pointing back to point 9 of the negatives

9. Random encounters of civillians in need and such like in red dead redemption. Would make the game so much better.

Yes, I agree with this. Again, TokW is giving this to us to a certain degree, so I can just hope they realize that this could only help.

10. Upgrading property system Like in AC2 with better homestead system, more customization of house, ability to make it like a fort with guards and walls, or a town with many citizens. Allow renovation, make it crappy shantytown from the start. Allow individual building renovations like in the villa. More effictive crafting and trading system.

I would like this to be dictated by the storyline and setting of the game. Besides Revelations, the system in each game has made sense. I do think, however, that they need to revamp the awful UI for crafting and trading we had in this game. The idea was great, the execution was ruined by that awful UI.

Bonus: innovate innovate innovate!! New ideas and fresh starts are welcome and needed to keep the AC series fresh.

Thanks guys.vplease comment on which parts you agree with and which you dont. Participate in the poll and remember to keep an ear out for news tonight on AC 4 blackflag featuring edward kenway (haythams dad) and a pirate theme thatctakes place in the carribean and possibly london, for that is his home. Thanks!

I think that covers my thoughts on this quite nicely. As for bonus ideas, I have a few:


I've been recently playing Metroid Prime 3, and I've noticed that item collecting is one of my favorite parts of the game. And that made me realize how frustrating it was getting chests in this series. I didn't feel any rewarding feeling. Then playing TokW I opened a chest and much to my surprise, I got a weapon! And then I found upgrades! So I think that if there's one thing I'd like to see, it's making treasure chests more of a challenge to get to and make them actually worth your time. By the time I was collecting all the chests in-game I had the money for the stuff I wanted.
Another thing, I'd like to see the return of notes and the such from AC1. I've been thinking of this being combined to optional objectives in missions. For example, if during a mission you went out of your way to save x person, this person would give you some info that would be useful in the assassination at the end of the sequence. To go along with that, I'd like to see assassinations go back to AC1 style, more or less, so you could look around the location, scout and plan ahead. And add more tools that work as traps. Sure, this game gave us trip mines (and snares for smaller enemies) but I'd like to be able to set up escape routes. And speaking of which, bring back the escapes. One of the most frustrating things of the AC series from 2 onwards has been the lack of chases. Sure, you chase a lot, but you're rarely chased. I'd like it so low profile players can plan, kill the target and escape without anyone knowing they were even there, but if you were noticed or something, then chase ensues. There is so much more satisfaction in the tension of the chase and being able to make it to the bureau after a tense chase. Or in this case, to whatever location you'd go to after beating the mission.

That sums it up well, I'd say

BATISTABUS
02-28-2013, 03:11 AM
Failed
1. I thought the Haytham part added a lot to the story, and we saw some of the most beautiful set pieces during this part. I'm just upset that this came at the expense of some Connor story.
2. Completely disagree. I liked Kyd, but I did not miss him in AC3. Balfe did a phenomenal job, and I'm glad he's here to stay (hopefully).
3. Character development for side characters chould've been deeper, but I feel like we got some of the most developed side characters in AC history. Achilles and Haytham are strong personalities on their own, and I feel like at least Washington and Kanen'to:kon were adequately developed.
4. The homestead and the homestead missions were fine, but I really had no interest in the homestead management.
5. Frontier was huge but felt empty. I think this was mainly due to how easy it was to just run through and slaughter animals and repetitive side missions.
6. I wouldn't say NO stealth. There were some great infiltration missions, but there were far too many oddly designed missions.
7. Agreed. There were way too many bugs for a finished product.
8. Agreed. Some were great (Pegleg), some were alright (frontiersman myths), and most were terrible.
9. Some missions were great, some were terrible.
10. I thought the enemy AI was better in AC3 than any other AC game, but it could'v ebeen better.

Succeeded
1. Wait...didn't you just criticize the AI?
2. Loved tree-running.
3. Loved Connor and the rest of the story.
4. Agreed.
5. Combat was great with more variation. I still wish enemies would attack more often, though.
6. Naval missions were awesome, but they did not have their potential maximized.
7. Freerunning felt amazing (with vaulting and other tricks), but too many guards on roofs made urban traversal very annoying.
8. I thought the sound effects were fine. They didn't stand out as spectacular to me. There are a few cheesy effects that don't need to be there (like a cartoony whoosh sound when Connor jumps).
9. Graphics were really nice.
10. Size was good, but it did come at the expense of feeling somewhat empty.

Improvements
1. No. I like Kyd, but we certainly don't need his music. The biggest problem with AC3's soundtrack was that there was no ambient music after we beat the game.
2. Maybe. Again, I feel like this problem would be much lessened if there weren't guards on the roofs.
3. I'm not a fan of recruits at all. They just make the game easier, and I already got my fill of that system in ACB.
4. This would be a neutral change. I've always loved the default costume, so I don't think I'd mess with this anyway. I'd prefer time to be spent on other things.
5. I love Connor, so yes.
6. Yes. Stealth missions have always been the most challenging and entertaining in my opinion. I'd like an advanced sound system as well (where guards can hear certain actions).
7. I'd like naval combat expanded upon in general.
8. I like mission constraints, but there is a right and wrong way to implement them. I think they should be mandatory, but still allow the player to do what they want for the most part.
9. Take as many cues as possible from Read Dead.
10. Again, I've had enough of these types of modes.

So overall, I'd say I agree with slightly over half of your points.

BoeserBengel83
02-28-2013, 03:11 AM
The open streets and low buildings are not. AC3 didnt give us enough ways to be stealthy. You cant honestly believe that the stealth in the game was good, can you?

The game has done a few things wrong and a few right.

You play Haytham for 3 sequences, then they have to waste another 2 sequences just to show you all the new things (bring the introductions like Naval as SIDE MISSIONS). Now we have only 7 sequences left and the last one is more like a movie and not a real sequence. All this was the biggest mistake. The gameplay on the other hand is better than in the Ezio games.


The stealth system is average. Of course it could/should have been better, but at least it isn't completely worthless.

Low buildings and open streets are not the problem in my opinion, sure, high buildings and small streets can help, but it is the mission design in some cases. The trees (as an example) in the cities didn't helped at all, they were useless.

The missing fights between the Pats and Redcoats are also a big disappointment, so many soldiers and only a hand full of conflicts.

I will post more details in a few hours, i need my bed.....

Wolfmeister1010
02-28-2013, 04:45 AM
I love the game, i love connor, and I know how difficult the frontier was to make, but if they spent more time on it, they could have made it way better. The main point of my thread, is that AC has to take as many cues from red dead as possible, as was said before me. That game was a model 3rd person openworld game. It had hunting, random encounters, many locations, great graphics, fun side missions that actually tie in with the story, and great replay value. AC3 had great hunting, and great graphics, and good locations, but the lack of random encounters hurts the fun. Also, i feel that the side missions were kind of lazy. The frontier and fight club missions were very syraightforward with no cutscenes or story value. The assasination contract missions were great in AC2 because they had backgrounds, but the ones in AC3 were lazy in the sense that the mission giver didnt even have lines, and we have no idea who we are killing and why.

I personally love taller buildings and narrower streets like in AC2 because it is more fun for me.ci suppose the open streets of boston and newyork are fun for many as well, and i apologize for making an uneducated judgement.

SixKeys
02-28-2013, 04:49 AM
To the OP:

10 ways it FAILED

1. Pacing = Agreed.

2. Music = Lorne Balfe may not be Jesper Kyd, but he did a fine job with the music in AC3. I do agree about ambient music.
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3. I felt all the Templars were fairly well developed. Unfortunately the same can't be said for the rest of the characters.
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4. Homestead = Agreed. It had potential, but frankly the city-building is getting old at this point. It made no sense for Connor to be doing the same kind of renovating that Ezio (as the son of a banker) did with his Villa.
*
5. Frontier = Agreed. To me AC is about social stealth, not much of that to be had in a vast empty land with only a handful of people. I went in expecting the Frontier to be dull and boring and it pretty much was.
*
6. Regarding stealth, why does everybody keep asking for a d@mn crouch button? AC is about social stealth. Hiding in plain sight. Acting like everybody else. You really think a dude going around crouching behind benches when everybody else is walking around normally isn't going to attract attention?
*
7. Bugs = Agreed. I've never complained about bugs much, because I never had as many problems with them before AC3.

8. Side missions = The Frontiersmen ones were okay. Everything else felt rushed and pointless. Even some of the Frontiersmen were kind of awkward, like the UFO or Headless Horseman. I would have preferred more interaction with the men after each mission instead of Connor's findings simply being recorded in the Animus database. Would have been nice to see how they reacted to his discoveries (did they believe him or just handwaved them away?).

9. Mission design = Agreed 100%.

10. Enemy AI = The guards in this game are a hundred times smarter than the ones in previous games. The problem is they're TOO smart, actually. They have a weird hivemind where if one guard so much as catches a glimpse of you, the entire fort suddenly knows exactly who and where you are. Sometimes the soldiers are even telepathic, where they don't even need to see or hear you and they STILL somehow immediately attack you when you get close.


10 ways it Succeeded.

1. I honestly didn't notice any upgrades to civilian AI. More animations, certainly, but behavior-wise? Nada. Animals are awesome.

2. Tree-Running = Agreed, mostly. My only problems are that it's useless in cities and that in the Frontier your options to use the trees are limited.

3. Story = Disagree. I liked the Haytham twist, but otherwise the story was the weakest in the series for me. Connor's training was completely skipped over, the whole assassins vs. Templars war was barely explained, too much time was wasted on the first 4-5 sequences and the modern story was terribly handled.

4. Weather and terrain = I guess it's okay. Personally I hardly noticed these things. Weather changes weren't as dynamic and noticeable as in Red Dead Redemption, for example. I only remember seeing rain two or three times outside of story missions. Uneven terrain is good if you cared about the Frontier which I didn't.

5. Combat = Was all right. I don't have a strong opinion of it either way. It's certainly not the huge improvement some people are claiming it was. Instead of holding down the high profile button you now have to keep mashing the "interact" button. Not exactly a mindblowing change.

6. Naval missions = I liked them as side content, though I never really felt they quite fit into the story in any way. Connor didn't seem like a seafaring person, so his ability to pilot ships felt tacked on. It's a feature that they perhaps should have saved for Black Flag and a straightforward pirate assassin. Anyway, the naval stuff was definitely some of the best content the game had to offer, design- and gameplay-wise.

7. Freerunning = The new one-button parkour is fine, but I miss the old freerunning. I liked the sense of being in full control of your character. You were also forced to be more mindful of crowds and how you dealt with people. It was easy to accidentally bump into someone and pickpocket them and face the consequences, or you could make yourself trip if you bumped into too many people. Connor shoves people out of the way automatically which feels dumbed down.

8. Sound effects = No opinion, didn't pay much attention to those.

9. Graphics = Graphics are definitely the best in the series so far, no doubt about that. The clothes animation and eyes are especially amazing. My only beef is with the modern day characters (what the hell happened to Shaun and Rebecca?) and the Homestead people's animation in cutscenes.

10. Size = Isn't everything. The areas in this game may be big, but it's pointless if there's not enough interesting stuff to do and see. I'd rather take AC1-size cities if the locations were as atmospheric and exotic as in the first game.


10 ways future ACs can be improved.

1. I'd love to have Jesper Kyd back, but at this point I doubt it's gonna happen.

2. More urban environments = Agreed.

3. I'm done with recruiting assassins. It's nothing but a hangover mechanic that had no place in AC3.

4. More customization = Agreed, agreed, agreed. And for Pete's sake, let us actually SEE the outfits we're buying by giving us a preview.

5. More Connor = Nope.

6. Already gave my opinion about crouching. It's not needed in AC. Hiding in shadows might be fine, though.

7. The naval stuff really doesn't need to take over the series to such a huge extent. If Ubi want a pirate game, they should just make a pirate game, not sell one under the AC title.

8. Remove mission constraints = Agreed, or at least make them less obvious. They can be optional for those who want the extra challenge, but the challenges should be hidden away in a DNA menu somewhere, not popping up at the beginning of every mission.

9. Random encounters = Agreed. Something meaningful or befitting the assassin though, not just "can you pick up these flowers for me and carry them over there, kthxbai".

10. Like I said before, renovating is getting old. They should do away with it entirely and replace it with something completely new.

pirate1802
02-28-2013, 05:11 AM
FAILURES:

1. Don't agree. The Haytham parts were a prologue rather than a tutorial, and very important for the story.. don't know why people keep saying that. God forbid if the writers decide to do a decent buildup for their stories. I also liked Haytham parts more than the rest of the game.

2, Don't agree at all. AC3 had some of the best music of the franchise. I had my doubts before, but Balfe did an outstanding job.

3. Somewhat agree. Some characters could have done with a little development, but others were well-developed. Connor, Haytham, Achilles, Ziio, Lee.. were all well-developed figures.

4. Disagree with all the strength in my body! Homestead in AC3 is miles ahead of any base from any AC game ever.You barely used it, that's okay. All the bases in the ACs are optional anyway. Villa was also optional in AC2. But to see the barren piece of land grow into a thriving village is much more satisfying than doing that to the Villa in AC2. Take a walk during the morning, watch Godfrey going fishing with Terry, see their children throwing rocks at sailors from behind trees. Dr. White enjoying a quiet smoke and Warren playing with his dog. I can't imagine how anyone can find the drab Villa more interesting than this.

5. Somewhat agreed. There are still patriot and redcoat camps by the way, I've come across some while hunting for trinkets but they are only like 2-3 of them in the whole frontier. Certainly need more. Guards are also not that rare buut.. it certainly lacked the bustle we're shown in the E3 demo.

6. Agreed totally. AC is no longer a stealth game and that is sad. It should learn from Deus Ex: HR. That game gives you the freedom to go all guns blazing, or play as a stealthy cat.

7. Agreed totally. I didn't encounter as many bugs as the horrible fps. Never buying another Ubisoft game for my PC. Fool me twice..

8. Somewhat agree. The courier, assassination and delivery missions are useless. The rest were awesome. Hunting, brawling, frontiersmen pegleg, naval, homestead missions.. awesomeness. Apart from the three I mentioned, I feel AC3 has the best sidequest package in the series.

9. Agreed totally. Bring back the freedom of AC1 Ubi! You gave us so many tools and options in AC3 but barely any chance to use them.

10. Agreed totally, but as a sidenote: AI has always been poor in AC. Its like complaining AC combat is very easy.


SUCCESSES:

1. Agreed somewhat. Like I said, civilian AI in Homestead received a major upgrade, but outside Homestead the people behave largely the same they did in previous AC. The devs said they'll react to weather, cover their head in rain, cycle through activities etc, that didn't happen. Makae it happen Ubi. You've shown you can do it for Homestead, do that for the others now.

2. Agreed totally. It was awesome.

3. Agreed totally. I liked it too. The greyness, for the first time since AC1, is back. AC3 IMO has the best story in AC.

4. Agreed totally. The first time I saw snow in the third sequence it reminded me of Christmas Carol :D

5. Agreed. Though it is not probably harder than before, not for me atleast, but it is certainly more interesting. I always try out new things like countering with your pistol, or rope dart and relish in seeing dem awesome animations. Its mostly because of the animations that I find the combat so joyous.

6. Agreed with all the strength in my body! Single best side mission ever in AC. I liked them so much that I won't even mind a naval-only AC game with more detailed ship combat. Dat feeling when you're riding the high seas in a story night.... can't be described. :eek:

7. Somewhat agreed. I understand that console folks find it easier with the ability to rotate the cam, but we PC folks always had that ability. So using one button instead of two seems like dumbing it down a little. Also now Connor auto-clibs every building. No challenge to it. I agree that without the rearrangement it would be impossible to vault over obstacles. So it my mind its a trade-off. It certainly increased the fluiding while reducing the complexity.

8. Agreed totally. Also the sound effects in the Frontier.. awesome. I actually don't mind lack of ambient music in Frontier, the noise fills up the void so good.

9. Agreed totally. The difference between the graphics of AC3 and previous ACs become more stark when you fire up the MP, which runs on the previous engines. Similar areas as the SP, with rain and all, but it all looks so fake compared to the SP AC3 graphics. One of the best-looking games of this generation that's for sure. Also, a smart decision to use the old engine to run the MP I'd say.

10. Agreed totally. I've 100%ed the game, and still while free-roaming I'd come across places I've never seen before.


THE FUTURE

1. Not needed IMO. Balfe did an impressive job.

2. Again, not needed. AC3 had a unique feel compared to the other ACs. I'd rather have different ACs feel differently.

3. I liked that the recruits of AC3 didnt wear a hood and all had their unique stories rather than say, the generic-looking recruits of previous ACs, so I don't know what to think on this one.. I'll leave it to the devs.

4. OMG YES!!

5. Connor.. Hate to break it to you but Connor's story is done for. I'm a big Connor fan too, but the writing is on the wall. As much as we liked Connor, he simply didn't have the mass appeal ala Ezio. So they're axing him in favour of someone more popular. Its sad, but its how corporates operate.

6. Yes, game badly needs more stealth options.

7. OMG YES!! I sorely missed naval free-roam. Here's hoping the next Piratey AC has that.

8. Yes. Make it like Deus EX: HR. There is always like 4-5 ways to enter a building, always different ways to complete a mission. Constraints don't need to be done away with, but need to make sense. Like "do not get detected", or "kill no one". Not air assassinate two grenadiers on a stealth mission -_______-

9. Yes please.

10. that was how the Homestead was, wasn't it. It was a barren piece of land and it grows up as you settle people in it. I loved that, hope Ubi continues it. I even felt a kind of kinship with my fellow Homesteaders :) The kind I never felt in AC2, B or R. About the idea of building forts and putting guards in it. It would be good but only if your Homestead is possible to be attacked by enemies. Maybe in the upcoming AC We'll see something like this. Pirate raids! Defend your homestead/base!

PS: Kudos on a non-biased and non-rhetorical thread. :D

Megas_Doux
02-28-2013, 05:36 AM
Here is a tip for those who love rainstorms or snow storms, since with the pivots get you a "soft" version of those:
Wait for it, and then choose any on the sun and day Animus hack to keep it like that as long as you stay on the map in which you set these conditions.
Which leads me to say how ungrateful are those who claim weather aint no big deal. I have identified three kinds of rain intensities....

To summarize:

1 Keep the combat, or make it even harder. Because it was a joke during Ezio´s Trilogy, mostly on AC2.
2 I enjoyed the greyish area of the story. Again, on AC2 and ACB the templars were SO **** cliche......
3 Please include background music during freeroam.
4 The Frontier was a HUGE breath of fresh air!
5 The game needs better mission design, less restrictive.
6 I love all of three ancestors and how different they are, but please; no more James Bond approach, there are LOT of characters like those already.
7 PLEASE UBI, include random encounters, ToKW was a good step forward though.
8 Best free running mechanics and animations, I enjoy the actual system.
9 Do not go annually, but that is a lost cause =(

pirate1802
02-28-2013, 05:46 AM
Here is a tip for those who love rainstorms or snow storms, since with the pivots get you a "soft" version of those:
Wait for it, and then choose any on the sun and day Animus hack to keep it like that as long as you stay on the that map in which you set that conditions.
Which leads me to say how ungrateful are those who claim weather aint no big deal. I have identified three kinds of rain intensities.

I already did those. They are awesome :D Also turn on the thunder hack and fight a bunch of bluecoats during rain. Pure awesomeness xD

Assassin_M
02-28-2013, 05:54 AM
Some say that AC3 was the best in the series, many say it is the worst, some say that they are done with the series because it sucks. Well, I am here to share my idea about whether AC3 was a "success" or not, and how the series can be improved.
*
10 ways it FAILED

1. Terrible story-campaign pacing. This game holds the trophy for longest lasting tutorial in the history of gaming.
Disagreed. I thought the Haytham move was brilliant. I never thought of it as tutorial, just a very well done backstory. I can fight, I can play games, I can scale, I had a sword, a gun and hidden blades and Haytham was an awesome character. Charm, complexion and sassyness. Definitely worth 3 sequences in my eyes.

2. The music. Lorne Balfe is fine, but he can't compare to Jesper Kyd. Also, WHERE THE HELL is the ambient music. I'm sorry ASSASSIN_M, I was wrong.
I actually disagree, I thought Lorne did a good job with AC III and an even better job with the Tyranny. that village battle track is my favorite now, but agreed about the Ambient music. No need to apologize:p

3. Poor character development. Connor doesn't get the credit he deserves because the only way you can grow fond of him is by completing side quests that not many people do any way. Achilles, Ziio, Washington, Connor's friend, and Connor himself were under developed.
Disagreed. I thought Ziio had a much better development than Giovanni Auditore. Achilles could`v used some more screen time to develop more of a fatherly connection with Connor, but I really liked Achilles and for me, his death is the second most emotional scene in video game history. Washington served his role and Haytham`s views on GW are perfectly mirrored in the game. A shy, insecure, lost "general".

Only one I slightly agree with is Kanentokon. Connor`s child years could`v used some more time if i`m honest. that should`v been used to develop Connor and Kanentokon`s relationship.

4. Homestead. I barely used the upgrade and econmic/trading system. It was confusing and unnecessary, and has no tie in to the story or campaign at all.. I wish that the homestead could have been upgraded like in AC2 Villa, now I'm stuck with the manor's TERRIBLE lighting.
Ugh. I hated AC II`s villa system. It was so stagnant and cosmetic only. push a button and the city suddenly looks prettier and you`re a millionaire. in AC III, you actually met the residents. each gave something new to the economy and unlocked new accessories and weapons. I liked the homestead more than the Villa..

5. Frontier. This area is under developed. The E3 demo showed a fully fleshed out patriot camp and wagons. However, the final game frontier features a small selection of animals, extremely rare occurences of guards and convoys, and an annoying emptiness that feels underdeveloped. It feels like Ubisoft completed the scenery like the trees and foliage and half-assed everything else.
AGREED AGREED AGREED !! Sometimes I find myself saying "Just give me that E3 Demo"

6. No stealth. It is preposturous to call this game a "stealth" game without even the option to ****ING CROUCH. NOBODY USES THE CROWDS FOR STEALTH, and the linear bushes do little to add to the experience. So no, ubisoft, AC is NOT a "social stealth" game. Starting to PISS ME OFF. I hope they see this.
Crouching is not social stealth, but I generally I agree that AC could use more stealth. I`v spoken about this too many times and fellow members have made brilliant contributions to this department (and no it`s not crouching)

7. Bugs. A ubisoft game has never had so many bugs in a seemingly "polished" game. There are still many bugs in the game that the terrible ubisoft support has continued to ignore.
Crappy corporate decisions.

8. Side missions. No story value, boring, generic, linear, and unnecessary.
Which ones ? only ones I thought were truly lazy fillers were the letters, delivery and Assassination missions and those weren't necessary, just lazy...had they provided actual context to those missions, then they would`v been so much better. if you mean those, then I agree that they were JUST boring, generic and linear.

9. Mission design. They are linear, boring, and the mission constraints take away all the freedom from the game. Not to mention how it doesn't put enough emphasis on assassinations
See my stance on stealth.

10. Terrible enemy AI. They are clunky, stupid, un dangerous, non threatening, and almost as bad as skyrim guards.
Agreed

10 ways it Succeeded.

1. The improvement of AI. aside from enemy AI, the civilians got major upgrades, and the addition of animals is awesome.
​It takes some time to actually see and realize the advancements made to Civilian and Animal AI. The Homestead is mind blowing. I wish it was implemented in the Frontier.

2. Tree-Running. Feels fluid and natural. Great innovation.
Agreed. people don't realize how much work tree running actually has in it..

3. Story. I feel that Connor's story is better and more realistic than ezio's or altair's, and it dives deeper into the assassin-templar conflict and how its not always black and white
Just Ezio. for me, Connor`s story is so much better than JUST Ezio`s story. Altair`s story is as deep and as grey as Connor`s, albeit more philosophical.

4. Weather and terrain. rolling hills, uneven terrain, and cliffs are great. Snow and rain feels right, and the snow on the ground is so perfect i could cry. It moulds perfectly to your feet and changes depth.
Again, it takes some time to actually appreciate this. Agreed.

5. Combat. More fluid and brutal than ever. Many people seem to forget how difficult it is to program combat on non even terrain. The weapons actually connect, and it looks perfect.
Agreed.

6. Naval missions. They were very fun and i wish they just had more story value.
Disagreed with having more story value. Naval combat felt just right, in my opinion and it gave a nice new element to the character of Connor

7. Freerunning. The new building and window passthrough is fun. Good that you only need to hold one button. Climbing looks and feels more fluid.
I always thought people were over reacting in regards to urban Free running. I found it as easy and as fun as every other game in the series.

8. Sound effects. The clanging of weapons and guns firing sound real and perfect.
Meh

9. Graphics. The best water and eyes i have ever seen in a videogame. Looks better than ever.
Agreed.

10. Size. The cities are HUGE and the frontier is even bigger. Great job.
Never really cared about size.


10 ways future ACs can be improved.

1. Bring back jesper kyd. We need his music.
I`d be fine with anyone who does good and quality music. Lorne or Jesper. I don't mind either..

2. More urban environments. We need tall, narrow cities to feel like an assassin. The wide streeets and low buildings in AC3 just didnt feel good.
I don't have a fetish for tall buildings.

3. Upgrade the assassins guild. Make them more unique. Make an assassins guild hq again. Increases customizability. Increase usefulness.
I agree about the HQ. something underground. more secretive than Tiber Island and the Villa. I want customization for weapons and strategies, not outfits.

4. Allow more customization. Multiple outfits, more dyes, maybe even change specific things like the shape of you hood and the type of boots you wear. Also customization of weapons and mounts.
Agreed so much

5. More Connor. All connor haters get out. His story is not done yet, and cant be completed through an alternate timeline dlc. If AC4 black flag includes edward kenway, then it should also include his grandson as well. We need more connor. Haytham is welcome too but mostly connor. I wont rest until he gets the respect he desserves. Just because he isnt a funny, sexual, smart mouth womanizer batman assassin like ezio doesnt mean he isnt a good character. His voice acting is FINE since that is what native americans sound like. He is more realistic and serious than ezio, and deserves more than all the hate he gets.
I`d like another game, but I wont cry if he doesn't get one. I thoroughly enjoyed Connor`s time in AC III, if that`s all I`ll get then so be it. I also wouldn't tell Connor`s haters to get out :P

6. Upgrade and revamp stealth. Allow use of crouching, rolling, hiding in shadows or low walls, upgraded detection system.
Agreed, but it`s not so much of an upgrade to the system that`s needed, in my opinion, but rather better design, accessibility and balance with what we already have.

7. Upgraded naval system with the ability to hire your own crew, upgrade and customize the ships exterior and interior, make it a floating home and base. Allow naval freeroaming and ability to dock at islands and cities.
Alright

8. Get rid of mission constraints and make missions less linear with multiple options on how to complete a mission.
It`s not the constraints that`re making the missions restrictive and linear, but rather the design itself..

9. Random encounters of civillians in need and such like in red dead redemption. Would make the game so much better.
I cry with the thought that AC III originally had good random encounters.

10. Upgrading property system Like in AC2 with better homestead system, more customization of house, ability to make it like a fort with guards and walls, or a town with many citizens. Allow renovation, make it crappy shantytown from the start. Allow individual building renovations like in the villa. More effictive crafting and trading system.
I just want to forget AC II ever existed.. (Does this comment make anyone angry ? Suck it hard if it does)

Bonus: innovate innovate innovate!! New ideas and fresh starts are welcome and needed to keep the AC series fresh.
Terribly agreed


red

Sushiglutton
02-28-2013, 11:42 AM
Overall I think it's a great list and well thoughout feedback :)! Here are my two cents on the details:

Failed:

Agree. I tried to replay the game to unlock the forts and the beginning nearly made me go nuts. It's not that you play as another character, which I thought was a great idea. It's that, like you said, it feels like one looong dragged out tutorial.
I thought the music was fine, I'm no expert though.
No comment
I thought it was an interesting concept and in part well made. I thought it didn't really pay off in any big way. There are some nice ideas here though. If they could just find a better motivation and more interesting missions (most of the Homestead missions really felt like chores) it could have been wonderful. I like that the system has a lot more personality than the Villa upgrades.
I would not put the frontier in the failure column at all. It's the best interactive wildlife enviroment ever made in a video game to my knowledge (No climbing in RDR). It was a brave move by Ubi. It wasn't perfect and as you said there could have been more activities and the the animal/hunting system came up short imo. That said one has to be a bit careful to not fill the frontier with too much stuff. I like the relaxing feel and having people running around everywhere would disrupt it.
Yeah there should be more stealth and the system needs an overhaul.
Agree.
Agree. Especially the Assassination side missions were a big let down to me.
This is my biggest issue with the entire game. When you go through the missions step by step, you realiz how incredibly empty they are and stripped of any room for creativity from the player. Really hope they can improve in this area.
Yes.

Succeed:
Yes
Agree, fantastic job with this.
Agree, very sad and unforgiving story.
The weather effects are awesome and added a ton to the experience.
Agree, combat is heading in the right direction. A bit more options and control and it would be awesome.
Yes
Agree, the way Connor shifts his balance is awesome for example. I wish we had a bit more control of the moves, but freerunning is cool.
Yes
Yes
I don't think size is that important. I think they should have skipped New York, as it really didn't add all that much. Instead those resources could have been used to flesh out the frontier.

Improvements:
I don't really care
The cities weren't the best in the series (not Ubi's fault but the lazy American's ;) ). But in principal I think AC can work in pretty much any type of enviroment and I'm glad they are mixing it up.
I'm in the "dump it"- camp when it come to the recruits. I also don't want AC to turn too much into an RPG. I like the freshness and focus of an action adventure game.
Don't care about this.
I'm fine either way.
Agree. Crouch would be a good addition. The solution to the social stealth issue is that if you crouch in public you do NOT blend.
Have a feeling this is coming ;)
100% agree, again this is the most important part for me!
Yeah, I have a feeling this will come too in time.
I'm on the fence if I want a more advanced home building system or a much simpler one. Either way could work.

CalgaryJay
02-28-2013, 04:22 PM
RE: 10 ways it FAILED

1. I thought the pacing at the start may have gone on a bit long, but over-all I enjoyed it. The Haytham parts were great. When Connor goes to jail is where it slowed down too much for me.

2. Kyd's legendary, but Balfe was good too. The problem was they only used like 5 tracks during missions, so they got played out very fast. But the tracks themselves were good. Not having ambient music was the single biggest mistake of this game.
*
3. Disagree, character development was fine, at least in terms of main characters.
*
4. Agreed, I liked the crafting system but it was pretty much unnecessary. They should've found a way to tie it into the story campaign, you could easily not even realize it was there.
*
5. Frontier was amazingly designed. I thought there were plenty of animals, but you're right, they needed to fill it up more with people. Very under-utilized.
*
6. Totally disagree about stealth. Ya there could be more, but this was the stealthiest AC since the original, and stealthier than any of the Ezio trilogy games.
*
7. Agreed about bugs. I never had any problems, but I know it was a very common issue.

8. Agreed, side missions were horribly under-developed. You can totally tell the devs ran out of time with this game, and side missions paid the biggest price.

9. Agreed, some missions were cool, but over-all much too linear. Not enough actual assassinating either.

10. AI wasn't great, but that's more of a general AC problem than an AC3 problem.

- Didn't both responding to the other sections, as I pretty much agreed with the rest.

kuled2012
02-28-2013, 04:58 PM
As if they'll listen to our suggestions anyway.

pirate1802
02-28-2013, 05:03 PM
As if they'll listen to our suggestions anyway.

Hey they did away with Connor based on the feedback..

kuled2012
02-28-2013, 05:07 PM
You're right, they listened to the idiots and are throwing away such a good character in the next game.

Rob327
02-28-2013, 05:33 PM
Pretty decent well thought out Thread. I agree with the "premise" of the Thread, although i may just agree with some of it, but think the remedy may help most of it. I just think playing this game only had me scratching my head on what "could have been" in so many different areas. The first impression you seem to get is "Red Dead", but they fall short of that. The open enviornments, animals and graphics are top of the line like RD, but the weapon mechanics are cumbersome and fall way short. I guess it's supposed to, because it's really not a shooter game, but almost cries out to be just that, having you want more.

It also has the Skyrim aspect with the side missions (Thieves Guild, Frontier, Homestead, all based on that premise) but certainly falls short on that. Choices are also lacking. Outfits starting with the Connor missions just look WAY out of place given the time. It's almost mind boggling that they would not have ANY outfits given the time period (yet give you Altaire, Ezio, or a Pirate), having you look more like a "caped crusader" of Comic Book Fame, than that of a serious character (as compared to Haytham). The weather aspects for me i think may be a "glitch". All rain storms are sunshowers, and every time it rains, there are clear sunny skies. If it is a glitch, they never fixed it at least on my end.

MP could have brought so many more aspects. Ship fighting, Line Fighting etc. The problem is again....wrong game. All it seems to do in my humble view is just have me want to play a Revolutionary War Shooter Game, more along the lines of Red Dead than that of an Assassins Creed based game.

Right game, wrong Developer.

c_macca_98_
02-28-2013, 05:57 PM
i dissagre ac3 was great and i loved connor... no homo;)

R0CKSTARR023
03-01-2013, 08:07 PM
Totally agree on the story part. The beginning is just ridiculously long, they should've just started with Kenway killing the first guy, skip EVERYTHING with the boat (except maybe when he's coming ashore) and then skip to the scenes with Connor's mom. Took forever for any meaningful action to enter into the storyline.

pirate1802
03-01-2013, 08:20 PM
Totally agree on the story part. The beginning is just ridiculously long, they should've just started with Kenway killing the first guy, skip EVERYTHING with the boat (except maybe when he's coming ashore) and then skip to the scenes with Connor's mom. Took forever for any meaningful action to enter into the storyline.

I disagree. That sort of skipping would have seemed very disjointed. Might as well do away with it altogether and start with Conor then.

Boulder_Av
03-03-2013, 03:32 AM
I thought the worse part of AC3 was the story. Sure some memorable moments happened but most of Connor story really stunk. He was such a one dimensional character. The growth of Connor never occurred, Ubisoft made the mistake of making him a hero of the Revolution, and having him only fight for the Americans.

Skirmish troops would be interesting. The image of Connor also changes depending on who he kills. For example if Connor kills a group American soldiers harassing the British your rep with the British goes up. More battles would have been part of the game. They would compose a separate part of the game that is effected by your choices on who you kill. Different dialog, lore, and cutscenes are presented depending if you sided with the British, Americans, or remain neutral. The battle campaign is completely contained and has no effect on the main storyline. Battles are much more open with multiple ways to play them.

More none lethal options also exist. Stealth plays a bigger part of the game also with those sneaking around getting a different details about the war than those who went in and killed anything that moved. Shadows and light are a part of stealth. Going into a dark area means you are less likely to get spotted. Enemy AI also uses light to flush you out. Disguising is also part of the stealth game play. Wearing a disguising allows you get into exclusive areas but also drops every weapon except your hidden blades and what ever weapon the outfit would go with. Enemy AI is also much aware of dead allies meaning that one must hide dead or unconscious bodies. Connor can carry a tool that allows him to distract guards for a little bit. Choose your play style like Deus Ex.

The major change to the main story line I would have made is to flop the Haytham and Lee assassinations sequences. Lee's final words are about how good of a man Haytham is and yet you do not see it. End sequence stays the same chase, injury to Connor etc. Once at tavern scene Connor goes to stab Haytham but realizes that it is better to know the leader of the Templars than too not. Connor has an end speech of: I was naive of the facts. Haytham was not my enemy he was my ally. Just like me he fought for what he believed was right. We must forge an allegiance that will allows us to plan for the future of this new nation. It is time that Templars and Assassins quench the flame of war. Both of the sides are needed. Each shows a different side of humanity. To achieve success we balance the two. It is possible as long as both my father and myself are alive. After all Haytham is still an Assassin and never was not.

The uniqueness of Desmond is explained. It is that he is that his bloodline is the culmination of the Assassins. TWCB know this and start both the Assassins and Templars to make sure Desmond gets the messages. They also do this so that once the disaster occurs and rebuilding occurs humanity has a greater chance of surviving. Because both have vastly different methods and both are needed for humanity to succeed. The War between the Assassins and Templars was only supposed to be about ensuring that messages from TWCB are delivered but is corrupted by humanity. Only Haytham and Connor were able to unite both sides of humanity that are represented by the Assassins and Templars. Desmond fails to unite the Templars and the Assassins and this leads to the ending that happens in the game. The ending will also lead into Black Flag with William going into the animus to cope with what happened. After the credits it is revealed that because Desmond spent so much time in the Animus that his memories are imprinted and saved in the software but are only accessible by his father. Because while William was at Abstergo he found a way to copy Desmond's genetic memories and make sure that he was able to view them. It is also revealed that William got capture on purpose so that he could secret information from Abstergo.

Sorry to have such a long post but I have thought for a long time about AC3.

itsamea-mario
03-03-2013, 03:46 AM
OH MY GOD SO MANY FRIGGING WORDS!!!!!

pls

Assassin_M
03-03-2013, 04:15 AM
He was such a one dimensional character. The growth of Connor never occurred
No and No

Boulder_Av
03-03-2013, 04:24 AM
No and No

He was not as fleshed out as I would have hoped. I get the coldness that Connor had because of heritage and thought that Ubisoft made a bold decision about his personality which I really liked. They missed so many opportunities to have an inner conflict within Connor. The English Native American heritage was not fully realized. There should have been a sequence right after the village burning and before the revel of his destiny that sent him to the city to meet his father because that was the dying wish of his mother. It would only be a few short missions long but would set up a conflict that would occur throughout the rest of the game. It being is where do I belong. I am neither a Native or a Colonist which would in part be solved by Achilles.

Assassin_M
03-03-2013, 04:34 AM
He was not as fleshed out as I would have hoped. I get the coldness that Connor had because of heritage and thought that Ubisoft made a bold decision about his personality which I really liked. They missed so many opportunities to have an inner conflict within Connor. The English Native American heritage was not fully realized. There should have been a sequence right after the village burning and before the revel of his destiny that sent him to the city to meet his father because that was the dying wish of his father. It would only be a few short missions long but would set up a conflict that would occur throughout the rest of the game. It being is where do I belong. I am neither a Native or a Colonists which would in part would be solved by Achilles.
Ah, so then you think Connor is not fleshed out, because of something YOU wanted...I would`v liked the scenario you mentioned, but saying Connor is one dimensional and showed no progression is based on nothing, if i`m honest, the thing is, they`re not as obvious as Ezio and/or Altair.

Connor`s progression is very subtle. you have to look a lot deeper and pay more attention, because it wont slap you in the face. It may very well pass you by...

An example of Connor`s progression is in Sequence 6. When he spares Johnson thinking that it`s over, but then he discovers that as long as the Templars live, they`ll continue their work, so he goes to unbelievable measures to hunt down each and everyone of them...

Another example is in sequence 7. When The Colonists trick him into helping them in the battle of concord promising that they`ll deliver Pitcairn, but he escapes and learns that had he capitalized, he could`v got him. Now the progression is in Bunker Hill, when Putnam suggests Connor WAIT again for the soldiers to thin Pitcairn`s ranks, he refuses, preferring to this time clutch the chance and not let it go....

Boulder_Av
03-03-2013, 04:45 AM
Ah, so then you think Connor is not fleshed out, because of something YOU wanted...I would`v liked the scenario you mentioned, but saying Connor is one dimensional and showed no progression is based on nothing, if i`m honest, the thing is, they`re not as obvious as Ezio and/or Altair.

Connor`s progression is very subtle. you have to look a lot deeper and pay more attention, because it wont slap you in the face. It may very well pass you by...

An example of Connor`s progression is in Sequence 6. When he spares Johnson thinking that it`s over, but then he discovers that as long as the Templars live, they`ll continue their work, so he goes to unbelievable measures to hunt down each and everyone of them...

Another example is in sequence 7. When The Colonists trick him into helping them in the battle of concord promising that they`ll deliver Pitcairn, but he escapes and learns that had he capitalized, he could`v got him. Now the progression is in Bunker Hill, when Putnam suggests Connor WAIT again for the soldiers to thin Pitcairn`s ranks, he refuses, preferring to this time clutch the chance and not let it go....


Thanks for pointing those things out. The more I think about the more fleshed out Connor appears. I choose bad words and phasing. I should have said that Ubisoft did not provide clear enough progression and missed opportunities for Connor. I believe that AC3 should have waited until next gen. It needed more time in the oven. The Xbox 360 and PS3 were maxed out and were unable to achieve what the devs wanted. On the positive side the world that Ubisoft Montreal created was one of the best I have every played in. The game felt rushed and that was the major issue. It needed more time.

Assassin_M
03-03-2013, 05:15 AM
It needed more time.
Couldn't agree more...

RzaRecta357
03-03-2013, 05:21 AM
I agree with the needing more time and especially with Jesper Kyd and his tunes. Man, I miss that. It feels like something is off without it.

The beginning is a bit long too. While it's good for development.. After getting to the town and seeing everything they should of crammed in those important convos like Haytham explaining the order and perception to Charles.

Just shortened it a bit. By the time you get to church it's like alright.... I know this game is about Conner and I don't have my hood yet after 3 hours.

So replaying it is a bit much. Hell, it started to feel long in AC2 around Paula's training after the first playthrough.

TheBearJew32
03-03-2013, 05:25 AM
Balfe did fine...the menu music and main theme were good. BUT GEE DANGIT there should have been background music as you explore the cities between missions and stuff

Ragsash
03-03-2013, 09:06 PM
[QUOTE=Wolfmeister1010;8945985]

1. Terrible story-campaign pacing. This game holds the trophy for longest lasting tutorial in the history of gaming.

3. Poor character development. Connor doesn't get the credit he deserves because the only way you can grow fond of him is by completing side quests that not many people do any way. Achilles, Ziio, Washington, Connor's friend, and Connor himself were under developed.
*
4. Homestead. I barely used the upgrade and econmic/trading system. It was confusing and unnecessary, and has no tie in to the story or campaign at all.. I wish that the homestead could have been upgraded like in AC2 Villa, now I'm stuck with the manor's TERRIBLE lighting.

8. Side missions. No story value, boring, generic, linear, and unnecessary.

1 I think the toturial was the best in this game. compare to the other games it made the torturial very intresteding but Yes it was very very long but still it was nicly done so I enjoyed it. from a story point of view.

3. Partly agree. its true Connor didint get to show his full shine untill he was doing the sidemissions (homestead and Assassin reqruits) and the optional conversations. like the one with lafayette was one of the most intressting dialogs in the game. and most people didint even see it. but I really am happy about they added optional dialog and hope they continue to do it.

4 partly agree I loved the homestead missions and I always loved how you collected paintings and books in Ezio games...but that feelt very fitting to the time. not sure if it would fit here very much. but Somehow I would like to made your homestead a much bigger thing and shinier. like make it a sucessfull town.

8. I found some of the sidemissions most fun I ever had doing like the assassin reruits those missions was absolutly awesome. and looking for the headless hunter was really fun.
and the Captin Kid missions was also aswesome.

TrueAssassin77
03-03-2013, 09:11 PM
I'm surprised i actually agree with almost everything here.
Beat AC3 2x and never played it again. Don't even care about the DLC. the RPG elements were removed and that decreased the enjoyment factor for me.
I usually like to roleplay. I'd restart a story so that I can focus on a different aspect of a character.
Example: one story hed were red and be a sword weilder on;y. Another he'd were white and be a hidden blade wielder only. and so on.
Issue is. The Heavy weapons fought the same as the Hammers. The knife fought the same as the tomahawk. The suit dye was the most limited since AC1. There was no armor so there was no sense of progression. etc.