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ACfan443
02-25-2013, 10:42 PM
I think this was the first public demo of the first Assassin's Creed. Watching it back really illustrates how much the stealth and combat systems of AC have changed in the past 5 years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38PFRKcIlUg

TheHumanTowel
02-25-2013, 10:46 PM
Ah memories. The most interesting thing is how prominent social stealth was compared to the muted role it plays today. People forget that that was one of the most exciting things about AC1 and was a big reason why there was so much hype around the game.

ACfan443
02-25-2013, 10:54 PM
Ah memories. The most interesting thing is how prominent social stealth was compared to the muted role it plays today. People forget that that was one of the most exciting things about AC1 and was a big reason why there was so much hype around the game.

My thoughts exactly, you can see that combat is actually discouraged, and is pretty challenging. There's a sense of freedom with how you approach the mission, and the mutiple paths contribute to this. The days of non-linearity, sigh.

UrDeviant1
02-25-2013, 10:59 PM
I have fond memories. Even though that trailer doesn't reflect 100% what the finished game was like. Features like social stealth were new back then, and very minimal. I'm glad it was improved upon in future games.

TheBearJew32
02-25-2013, 11:16 PM
miss Jade...
http://laurenoutloud.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/sandlot-1squints.jpg

kuled2012
02-25-2013, 11:39 PM
Struggling to think of when I used Social stealth in AC3 actually...Quite a disappointing thought.

Assassin_M
02-25-2013, 11:59 PM
This video is nothing, but depressing...

Seeing this. Actual, fun, balanced stealth and mission design.....I wish I never fell in love with this series..

Perk89
02-26-2013, 12:44 AM
I was playing AC3 today and was thinking how Full Sychronization has been the tell tale sign of the mission designs decay.
It used to be a good feature that you could use and still approach any situation any way you like.

Requirements such as "Kill Two Guards with Throwing Knives" has evolved into "Do The Entire Mission This One Direct Way Via This One Route Or You Are Doing It Wrong."

Seriously, one method to enter and clear a fort, OR have every guard come and fight you (along with a special indicator to notify you that you didn't do the one correct route.h

It's prevalent throughout the entire game. We need better mission design in AC4, period-and yeah, some social stealth.

RatonhnhakeFan
02-26-2013, 12:51 AM
Yeah, it's a big downside of the Full Synch requirements.

dxsxhxcx
02-26-2013, 01:33 AM
today the focus changed from freedom and social stealth to cinematic moments and linearity

Perk89
02-26-2013, 01:50 AM
And lol at the chick in that video pronouncing Acre like 3 different ways over the course of the demo.

SixKeys
02-26-2013, 01:54 AM
And lol at the chick in that video pronouncing Acre like 3 different ways over the course of the demo.

Even characters in the game pronounced it in many different ways. I think she knew the proper pronunciation is "Ak-rah" (with the French 'r') but switched to Ey-ker later to made it clearer for non-French listeners.

burtie80
02-26-2013, 02:05 AM
Do you know what? I started playing AC1 again the other night and what a difference. I'd actually forgotten what it was like. It's so much better, the freedom to roam and explore, the freedom to carry out the missions anyway you want. I actually felt like I was playing a forward thinking game that was looking for new and emersive gameplay. It's so far apart from what the series has become, AC3 is terrible in comparison and the latest DLC just reinforced that idea, with it's linier paths, and if you set one foot outside of that path it's game over and you have to start again.

AC1 felt new, fresh and interesting... but AC3 was boring and a pain to get through.

The series has personaly run it's course for me.

It broke my heart playing AC1 again, and I honestly dont think I will be rushing out to buy AC4.

Poodle_of_Doom
02-26-2013, 02:11 AM
And lol at the chick in that video pronouncing Acre like 3 different ways over the course of the demo.

Not only that, I noticed several other things. I don't think you could destroy stands like that in AC1. I know you couldn't ride your horse into town. Those aspects didn't come until later games.

abcdelm45084
02-26-2013, 02:36 AM
Ye i remember sitting and watching this demo every day and just dreaming of having the game in my hand. I actually replayed the game just two months ago to collect all flags and killing all templars for achievments. After AC2 the best game in my opinion. I also liked the desmond parts in this one (wich not alot of pple did appereantly). It was all so mysterious u really had no idea wtf was going on. Satellites The ones who came before piece of eden 2012. And especially the last one with all the signs and numbers in the end i sat hours and hours reading on the internet about it. This series has even made me interested in history and religion wich i before playing the AC series didnt give a f about. Another thing i liked was the conversations u had with the targets u killed. U barely have that in AC3 and even in AC2 they were alot shorter.

L_Alejo
02-26-2013, 02:36 AM
I started a new AC3 savefile last week, turned the whole HUD off, and so far I'm totally ignoring the Full Synch bullcrap, and it's a far better experience, I'm seriously trying to avoid combat as much as posible, and even if it's terribly unforgiving, when you manage to solve what should've been a one man vs an amry situation in a stealthy way, it does become so increadibly satisfying, assaulting convoys turns into robbing convoys, taking over forts is no longer a 2 minute fight but about 10-15 minutes of observation, planning, and executing, (one small fail and everything goes to hell, but hey, it's still pretty cool to pull it off), everything has become quite cooler now, I'm also trying to avoid streets as much as posible, and it is working out so far (there are tmes when you have to get off, in order to cross a field and such, tough that still offers some stealth) navigating the rooftops is not as easy as it was back in AC2/B/R, but it does feel alot more satisfactory when you find a way to cross a street from the rooftops.

All in all, AC3 does have the right elements, but the wrong elements are shoved in our faces, full synch and combat while being good ideas, should not be the focus, this is Assassins Creed, not Fighters Guild or some bullocks. :I

All that aside, the first time I beat this game it felt like crap, spent too much time fighting and none sneaking, right now, while the game punishes me for being stealthy, I'm doing my best to use those stealth elements to my advantage and punish myself when I recur to fighting when it was not strictly necessary, and so far it truly is a far better experience. :)

Megas_Doux
02-26-2013, 03:04 AM
To me.....

AC1īs freedom and investigations (though revamped and more diverse) + AC3īs combat/freerunning/weather mechanics and its cinematic moments (I think some of those are required) = THE best Assassins Creed possible.....

Again, at least to me.

Assassin_M
02-26-2013, 03:14 AM
To me.....

AC1īs freedom and investigations (though revamped and more diverse) + AC3īs combat/freerunning/weather mechanics and its cinematic moments (I think some of those are required) = THE best Assassins Creed possible.....

Again, at least to me.
This...

this is why I love AND hate Patrice at the same time. To me, he brought the best formula in AC I, then tarnished it with AC II...

What he said about AC I and the reason for his departure make me think that AC II was not what he would`v wanted to do, but I still blame him for going through with it and then leaving it all behind. I mean he said it..

IT`S HIS BABY !! Who the hell leaves his baby behind ??

DavisP92
02-26-2013, 03:26 AM
LOL i think it's pretty funny how i was posting this video months ago, before AC3 was released and some people weren't for it. This video is how AC should be now, sadly it's not. And it is the main reason why I won't be buying anymore AC games, from now on if the sync. system and lack of freedom is in the game i'd rather borrow it from someone i know or just rent it from blockbuster. I'm more interested in Watch dogs, and Deep Down.

TheHumanTowel
02-26-2013, 03:29 AM
This...

this is why I love AND hate Patrice at the same time. To me, he brought the best formula in AC I, then tarnished it with AC II...

What he said about AC I and the reason for his departure make me think that AC II was not what he would`v wanted to do, but I still blame him for going through with it and then leaving it all behind. I mean he said it..

IT`S HIS BABY !! Who the hell leaves his baby behind ??
He left because he didn't like what Ubi were turning his baby into. I'll just say it's quite the coincidence he left when the first annual game came out.

Assassin_M
02-26-2013, 03:31 AM
He left because he didn't like what Ubi were turning his baby into. I'll just say it's quite the coincidence he left when the first annual game came out.
That`s what I said, but I`ll repeat..

WHO THE HELL LEAVES HIS BAY BEHIND ???

I mean, he put work into that right ? he spent countless hours thinking about it, countless hours shaping it up and then he leaves it. Uninspiring at all, in my opinion and I fault him...

TheHumanTowel
02-26-2013, 03:34 AM
That`s what I said, but I`ll repeat..

WHO THE HELL LEAVES HIS BAY BEHIND ???

I mean, he put work into that right ? he spent countless hours thinking about it, countless hours shaping it up and then he leaves it. Uninspiring at all, in my opinion and I fault him...
Because he didn't want to have a part in Ubi whoring the series out. I wish he'd stayed to keep the bad stuff somewhat under control (particularly in the story department) but I can see why he left.

Assassin_M
02-26-2013, 03:36 AM
Because he didn't want to have a part in Ubi whoring the series out. I wish he'd stayed to keep the bad stuff somewhat under control (particularly in the story department) but I can see why he left.
You can...I can`t..

Obviously I did not want him staying and playing along with this crap..No, I wanted him to speak against it damm it..If the creator left and gave up, what hope do we have of salvaging this series ??

TheHumanTowel
02-26-2013, 03:38 AM
You can...I can`t..

Obviously I did not want him staying and playing along with this crap..No, I wanted him to speak against it damm it..If the creator left and gave up, what hope do we have of salvaging this series ??
Honestly at this stage our best chance is that Yves gets hit by a car or the Ubi executives' plane crashes.

Assassin_M
02-26-2013, 03:41 AM
Honestly at this stage our best chance is that Yves gets hit by a car or the Ubi executives' plane crashes.
I wish Take 2 would buy Ubisoft if that happens...

Rockstar has absolute freedom with their work..

Megas_Doux
02-26-2013, 03:52 AM
I REALLY liked a lot of stuff from AC1, but I understand that some of its repetitiveness tired a lot of people. Could you imagine a "remastered" AC1, with platforming levels such Krac des Chevaliers. Acre at night? Damascus during sunset??? Could you imaging Altair using spears, hiding behind a column and vault jumping????

Or the other way around, Connor in the frontier, silently following people on William Johnsonīs whereabouts? Despite some heavy flaws, AC3 is my favorite though...

Assassin_M
02-26-2013, 03:57 AM
I REALLY liked a lot of stuff from AC1, but I understand that some of its repetitiveness tired a lot of people. Could you imagine a "remastered" AC1, with platforming levels such Krac des Chevaliers. Acre at night? Damascus during sunset??? Could you imaging Altair using spears, hiding behind a column and vault jumping????

Or the other way around, Connor in the frontier, silently following people on William Johnsonīs whereabouts? Despite some heavy flaws, AC3 is my favorite though...
A game doesn't have to be flawless to be one`s favorite...

Megas_Doux
02-26-2013, 04:00 AM
I know.

Still, I "wish" some of its core gameplay would make a comeback.....

Assassin_M
02-26-2013, 04:01 AM
I know.

Still, I "wish" some of its core gameplay would make a comeback.....
Indeed..

LoyalACFan
02-26-2013, 05:05 AM
Am I the only one who noticed that Altair's sword is popping out the side of his sheath during half the video? :p Well, hell, at least he HAD a sheath. The free-hanging swords have looked terrible ever since AC2. I never carry one as Connor.

Poodle_of_Doom
02-26-2013, 06:47 AM
I wish Take 2 would buy Ubisoft if that happens...

Rockstar has absolute freedom with their work..

Seriously though, didn't half the team change over the years? At that, I though ACR had an entirely different team didn't it?

Assassin_M
02-26-2013, 06:50 AM
Seriously though, didn't half the team change over the years? At that, I though ACR had an entirely different team didn't it?
ACB`s and ACR`s teams were different from those that worked on AC II and AC I

The ones working on ACB and ACR were generally younger, or at least not veterans, than those working on AC I, AC II and probably AC III..

ACfan443
02-26-2013, 09:16 AM
Not only that, I noticed several other things. I don't think you could destroy stands like that in AC1. I know you couldn't ride your horse into town. Those aspects didn't come until later games.

Not only that, but if you read articles from 2006/2007, Jade, Patrice and other devs mentioned many other things they took out of the game, for examle "a glove which would allow you to reach that little bit further when scaling a building" sound familiar? ACB.

LoyalACFan
02-26-2013, 09:50 AM
Not only that, but if you read articles from 2006/2007, Jade, Patrice and other devs mentioned many other things they took out of the game, for examle "a glove which would allow you to reach that little bit further when scaling a building" sound familiar? ACB.

Well, you actually had the ability in AC2. It wasn't until ACB that they decided Ezio needed a magic glove to climb leap :p

roostersrule2
02-26-2013, 10:12 AM
I wish Take 2 would buy Ubisoft if that happens...

Rockstar has absolute freedom with their work..If that happened I would cry of joy.

leCarrot
02-26-2013, 11:04 AM
Interesting, the demo has the same sort of 'leap over'-mechanic (at 4:48) that they only implemented in AC3.

roostersrule2
02-26-2013, 11:06 AM
Interesting, the demo has the same sort of 'leap over'-mechanic (at 4:48) that they only implemented in AC3.Nah it's been in all the AC's actually, it was rare in AC1 and in the others it happens when getting out of a well.

leCarrot
02-26-2013, 11:13 AM
Nah it's been in all the AC's actually, it was rare in AC1 and in the others it happens when getting out of a well.

That looks more like the dynamic movement mechanism like in AC3 than something situational like the well animation.
In all previous games the character would just have jumped on the wall and leapt off, so I do think it's a mechanism they ditched for some reason.

Mr_Shade
02-26-2013, 11:14 AM
I have fond memories. Even though that trailer doesn't reflect 100% what the finished game was like. Features like social stealth were new back then, and very minimal. I'm glad it was improved upon in future games.
indeed - I think somepeople forget that the video was 'targeted gameplay footage' - from early in the game's development.


Not everything seen in that video made the first game, so it's a little unfair to use it to show 'what changed' - since some things never made the first game anyway...

roostersrule2
02-26-2013, 11:15 AM
That looks more like the dynamic movement mechanism like in AC3 than something situational like the well animation.
In all previous games the character would just have jumped on the wall and leapt off, so I do think it's a mechanism they ditched for some reason.It's the well animation, the AC3 one was a lot smoother. I have no idea why the limited it though.

Mr_Shade
02-26-2013, 11:18 AM
Honestly at this stage our best chance is that Yves gets hit by a car or the Ubi executives' plane crashes.

Just a reminder -


You are posting on a forum paid for by those people... If you don't wish to remain a guest of Ubisoft here - it can be arranged..



Lets keep your personal ideas about certain subjects to yourself please...

dxsxhxcx
02-26-2013, 11:22 AM
To me.....

AC1īs freedom and investigations (though revamped and more diverse) + AC3īs combat/freerunning/weather mechanics and its cinematic moments (I think some of those are required) = THE best Assassins Creed possible.....

Again, at least to me.

IMO AC3's combat has nothing special, maybe if you are the agressive type who does the first step and attack your enemy first you may have some decent experience because the combat system seems to favor this gameplay style a lot, but I at least enjoy to play with my enemies, waiting them for attack and then kill everyone from there, and then when you play that way you realize that not much (to don't say nothing) was done for this kind of gameplay style, the guards still take ages to attack, the guns make them often keep a safe distance what make the combat less fluid, if you watch the demo you see this same problem is there and see this problem 6 years and 5 games later is sad, if they fix that and make the guards attack often they won't even need to add killstreaks in the game, because that would come more naturaly with the guards constantly attacking you..

IMO the cinematics moments are one of the reasons for the decay of the quality of the game, many missions are build in a way to favor these cinematic moments, in AC1 IMO they were handled perfectly because they weren't the focus of the experience..

I agree with your points about weather and free running...

leCarrot
02-26-2013, 11:23 AM
It's the well animation, the AC3 one was a lot smoother. I have no idea why the limited it though.

Yes, I didn't mean the actual animation but the way they made the character perform it (leaping over a low wall instead of climbing it).
That's why I thought it was weird that they got rid of such a working mechanism (that I thought they should've had already in AC2).

btw, only 2 posts more and you'll be in the 1000-club. Congrats! :D

roostersrule2
02-26-2013, 11:33 AM
Yes, I didn't mean the actual animation but the way they made the character perform it (leaping over a low wall instead of climbing it).
That's why I thought it was weird that they got rid of such a working mechanism (that I thought they should've had already in AC2).

btw, only 2 posts more and you'll be in the 1000-club. Congrats! :DHahaha thank you, only 947 more and you'll be with me.

Sushiglutton
02-26-2013, 02:57 PM
I think you guys are being a little bit overly nostalgic here. I like what Jade is saying about non-rigid missions and social stealth, but looking at the gameplay footage it is certainly not of the same quality as AC3 in any area imo.

The social stealth is reduced to blending in a group of monks, a type of blend that was in the game all the way to Revelations. For me that system has just never clicked. Visually it looks silly. The assassin, armed to the teeth, blending in a group of monks/courtesans doesn't work. The new blend in AC3, standing between any two random people, is a big improvement in terms of believability.

The combat shown is hold block, tap attack to counter and watch a canned animation. It's not interesting in the slightest. Yes it is hard, but I take the combat in AC3 any day in the week. I don't need punishing combat to stay stealthy. When I play the forts I stay stealthy because I want to. When I do decide to fight I want it to be fluid and fun rather than stodgy and punishing.

Like I said, I like the way Jade is talking and the direction and ambition of the project. What I see on screen does not impress me in the slightest compared to what we have in AC3 though.

ACfan443
02-26-2013, 06:16 PM
I think you guys are being a little bit overly nostalgic here. I like what Jade is saying about non-rigid missions and social stealth, but looking at the gameplay footage it is certainly not of the same quality as AC3 in any area imo.

It's not about the quality, it's more about where the focus on the core gameplay is (jade herself described the demo as a "work in progress"). Stealth is actually encouraged there, albeit being rather basic; freedom to approach the mission how you want is also present. AC3's stealth implementation is weak, and its freedom almost non-existent.

Posting this video was not just about stealth, I just found it interesting how so much was changed/removed.

Sushiglutton
02-26-2013, 06:38 PM
It's not about the quality, it's more about where the focus on the core gameplay is (jade herself described the demo as a "work in progress"). Stealth is actually encouraged there, albeit being rather basic; freedom to approach the mission how you want is also present. AC3's stealth implementation is weak, and its freedom almost non-existent.

Posting this video was not just about stealth, I just found it interesting how so much was changed/removed.

Yeah like I said I like the way she talked about the game and wish they have kept pushing in that direction. I think the amount of freedom to approach this mission is debatable though. The target stands in one end of a square. I guess there are a couple of ways to get close to him, but the layout is fairly simple. For example the forts in AC3 offers a deeper stealth experience imo. I agree though that the stealth in AC3 is fairly broken and not up to modern standards. And you are absolutely right about how the missions in AC3 lacks freedom.

But when I watch this target video I'm not blown away by it at all in terms of gameplay, or mission design. But then again, five years in this direction and AC3 would probably have been a much more interesting game.

Poodle_of_Doom
02-27-2013, 12:26 AM
indeed - I think somepeople forget that the video was 'targeted gameplay footage' - from early in the game's development.


Not everything seen in that video made the first game, so it's a little unfair to use it to show 'what changed' - since some things never made the first game anyway...


Actually, that's the thing.... I liked all those things. It helped make the series for me in the later games.