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Flame_Out
04-20-2004, 11:37 AM
Hello all.
I am leaning toward the P-39 to start my virtual fighter pilots carreer. After creating a few practice missions anf flying various aircraft the P-39 seemed to be easy to handle with decent firepower and visibility. Now I have always been the type to pick one plane and become as highly proficient as possible in it.

With that being said I would like your opinions and suggestions on the P-39 or possible alternatives. I realize that everyone has a favorite plane to fly for one reason or another but I am looking for a plane with a good manuvarability/damage resistance/firepower balance if such a plane exists.

On a side note, I have not purchased the expansion yet and was wondering if those who have have completely switched over to flying one of the new flyable aircraft and do these new aircraft put folks who fly the default FB aircraft at any disadvantage online?

Thanks in advance for your response

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Flame_Out
04-20-2004, 11:37 AM
Hello all.
I am leaning toward the P-39 to start my virtual fighter pilots carreer. After creating a few practice missions anf flying various aircraft the P-39 seemed to be easy to handle with decent firepower and visibility. Now I have always been the type to pick one plane and become as highly proficient as possible in it.

With that being said I would like your opinions and suggestions on the P-39 or possible alternatives. I realize that everyone has a favorite plane to fly for one reason or another but I am looking for a plane with a good manuvarability/damage resistance/firepower balance if such a plane exists.

On a side note, I have not purchased the expansion yet and was wondering if those who have have completely switched over to flying one of the new flyable aircraft and do these new aircraft put folks who fly the default FB aircraft at any disadvantage online?

Thanks in advance for your response

http://img56.photobucket.com/albums/v172/Flame_Out/planes2.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
04-20-2004, 12:02 PM
To the advantage question - no. The thing you'll be missing though is the P38 and the spitfires and the p63.

The P39 is my favorite all-round dogfighter. It does everything well but does not have alot of raw engine power - it does have very greasy aerodynamics however and if you manage your e well it is certainly a match for any plane in the game - depending, of course, on tactics. Anymore it's the one I fly when I want to relax a little and maybe do a little more turnfighting. Otherwise I prefer the p38.

BpGemini
04-20-2004, 12:17 PM
The P-39 is a good pick.

The cannon is your friend. I accept head on challenges because of it. I like to set the cannon convergence to 100-150m to decrease the lob effect it has at mid to long range convergences.

Taking less fuel increases your maneuverability, taking more fuel increases your gunnery accuracy. Unless there's a need for more I like to take 25% because experience earns accuracy as well.

Make the P-39 stalls your friend, learn the controlled stall maneuver for emergencies or just to get that "edge".

One main point of being efficient is learning the aircraft you don't fly, know your enemy.

The P-39 is an energy fighter. Not only are you fighting against an enemy but against your own energy, keep supplying your source and maintain an efficient amount of energy (speed + altitude = energy). Learn when to gain speed and when to gain altitude.

Learn to land fast. It'll help online and the P-39 can be good at it.

Learn to anticipate your opponent's future position. There's a lot of planes faster than the P-39 so you have to make the better decisions in strategy.

I tend to use the MGs to wear a nimble/fast enemy down and I use the 37mm as my sniper rifle or kill shot. Don't expect consistent miracles from your MGs you may end up disappointed. They can be a very effective tool though so don't forget them.

I like the N1 and Q1 versions of the P-39 the best.
If you know what you're up against then you can chose the best version for the task.
For example;
N1: Bomber intercept (Including IL-2s and P-47s), Early year and/or sluggish fighters (most FW-190s).
Q1: In between.
Q10: Yak-3s, La-7s

I prefer the N1 versus just about everything and the Q1 against the late war aircraft (Yak3, La-7).

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faustnik
04-20-2004, 12:30 PM
I agree with Nagual and Gemini on everything except I prefer the Q10. It is the fastest P-39 model and a good B&Z a/c.

Get close with that cannon!

Scratch and claw for every inch of altitude. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Prof.Wizard
04-20-2004, 12:31 PM
Yes the P-39 is nice model. And I like your idea of sticking with one plane and becoming proficient. I'm doing the same with the Me-163 and when that not available with the Ta-152.

-----------------------------
Me-163's HWK 109-509 Rocket Engine
www.mihailidis.com/images/HWK109509.jpg

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-20-2004, 12:33 PM
Growing up I always thought the P-39 was kind of ugly. I wanted to like it, really I did, but just found it too difficult. After flying it in Il2 and later in FB, I can honestly say it is the most rewarding mount for a few reasons. BpGemini is an accomplished cobra jockey and his advice is spot-on. I found it to be challenging to learn, difficult to master (not that I have, despite some measurable success) and ultimately rewarding once you've done some semblence of either.

Honestly, the view sucks, the .50's are anemic and the "big" gun is a laugh at times (FW's routinely taking three hits from it), but it is the quickest from start to airborn and fighting than any other bird in the game (use landing flaps and learn to ride a wheelie to about 130 kph before liftoff) and its turnfighting skills can make or break you.

Learn its strengths (and your enemies as Gem said) and fly smart and you'll soon be having a blast.



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civildog
04-20-2004, 02:40 PM
The 39-Q-10 is the preferred mount of the WannaBee's. It may be a little unforgiving if you handle it rough: it's not a yank n' bank plane, but once you learn it's quirks it's a great all-around fighter.

Learn to ride the edge of a blackout, too. Getting this plane to turn means graying out and using the combat flaps to keep your AOA high so you can keep that turn going a wee bit longer than otherwise.

I set the MG's to 200 and the cannon to 150. I agree with BPGemini: the MG's wear the target down (or at worst get his attention) and the cannon kills him. Dunno why anyone would complain about a 37mm shell not doing enough: an IL2M3 will be blown in half by one hitting it a couple times in the wingroot. 190's and 109's vaporize in one hit if you aim for the wingroot or cowling. If not they are so damaged as to not be much of a threat anymore.

Guess it just depends on where you aim, and since I'm a better shot than a pilot I try to place my shots in vulnerable areas if possible.

The cannon has 30 rounds that can be popped off one at a time and the .50's are good for about 20 seconds of sustained fire. More than enough ammo to spread plenty of hate and discontent.

Love the beast, the P-63 too, can't say enough about them.

ROSHKO_69.GIAP
04-20-2004, 03:24 PM
I love the P-39 too, I've seen multiple hits from the cannon apparantly not do anything - but when I look closer (like in a track) it DOES make holes big enough to seriously challenge the victim.

I'd like to ask Gemini - what is your controlled stall maneuver like ?

BTW Flame_out - the figher section of the 69.GIAP focuses on the P-39. If you're looking for an online squad, swing by http://giap.webhop.info and say hello to us on our forum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C!

Roshko

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mcplkelly
04-20-2004, 03:47 PM
I always love how the better and newer models of the P-39, and many other planes, lose guns. For example, the Me 109 (Bf109) goes from two 20mm cannons and two 7.62mm to one 15mm cannon and two 7.62mm guns. The P-39 goes from a pretty good armament to one with two .50's and a 30mm (i think). I know its to increase speed, but i'll take the slower plane for better power.

BuzzU
04-20-2004, 03:51 PM
You can see when you taxi. That's got to be worth something.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Buzz
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BpGemini
04-20-2004, 03:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ROSHKO_69.GIAP:
I'd like to ask Gemini - what is your controlled stall maneuver like ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


First you have to learn and maintain a grasp of the P-39's stall. A lot of people try to avoid the stall instead of learning to master it. With each add-on or patch tweak you have to get used to the P-39s new parameters. In the end you want to accomplish the ability to stall on purpose and remain in control of the stall to pull the plane into the position you want (i.e. onto the six of the bandit that just overshot you). Start by stalling on purpose, each time learning to stay in control for the duration. Once you've mastered staying in control for the entire stall you can add the controlled stall to your arsenal. Like most maneuvers it's like the crossover dribble in basketball, it can be really effective when used at the right time but don't over use it.

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http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

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Hunde_3.JG51
04-20-2004, 03:54 PM
I agree with Gemini, the FW-190 is "sluggish." Which is funny since almost every piece of literature I have ever read says the 190 was fast and agile http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

I'm not really being serious here, but still...

Btw, I think all of the P-39's are good, capable, all-around machines that maintain energy extremely well. I prefer the Q-10 for its speed and the 2 .50's are enough to wound/cripple for an experienced pilot. Well, maybe not now but with patch coming things will change for most planes.

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ROSHKO_69.GIAP
04-20-2004, 04:00 PM
Rgr that Gemini, you're telling me 'go ahead and do it and learn to deal with it'. I appreciate that advise - 'cause it's the best goddam advice there is, no matter the situation !

I'll do just that - but I won't mind admitting I waaaas fishing for some more concrete thoughts on the matter though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif You know a chance to banter with fellow Cobra nerds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'll also admit that I try to avoid stalling at all costs, I HATE paying the E that it costs, and if your attacker is any good he'll just zoom away and u're even more fooked, so I'd regard a controlled stall an absolute last ditch maneuver.

The thought is intriguing though - if you can hit with that cannon - it IS mighty effective, and if the bugger keeps climbing away from you and refuses to sacrifice his E, that stall thing might be your best chance of getting a good shot at him.

I'll be stalling around for a while - see how it fits http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

C!

Roshko

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_roshko.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

BpGemini
04-20-2004, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ROSHKO_69.GIAP:
Rgr that Gemini, you're telling me 'go ahead and do it and learn to deal with it'. I appreciate that advise - 'cause it's the best goddam advice there is, no matter the situation !

I'll do just that - but I won't mind admitting I waaaas fishing for some more concrete thoughts on the matter though http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif You know a chance to banter with fellow Cobra nerds http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I'll also admit that I try to avoid stalling at all costs, I HATE paying the E that it costs, and if your attacker is any good he'll just zoom away and u're even more fooked, so I'd regard a controlled stall an absolute last ditch maneuver.

The thought is intriguing though - if you can hit with that cannon - it IS mighty effective, and if the bugger keeps climbing away from you and refuses to sacrifice his E, that stall thing might be your best chance of getting a good shot at him.

I'll be stalling around for a while - see how it fits http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah you don't want to lose much E in the process so it's risky and tricky but can be greatly effective. The trick is not to sustain a long stall. Stall just enough (less than a second) to have the bandits speed carry him past you but gives you time and leaves enough energy to position yourself nose up into his **** end with a 37mm warmed up and ready to deliver.

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http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

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Flame_Out
04-20-2004, 04:46 PM
Great posts guys. Im feeling confident that I made a good choice in the P-39.

Another question, Does trim have any purpose in a fight. I try to use it to line up my shots better but Im generally moving to fast and the trim is slow. So does anyone use trim effectively in a fight or is it just good for straight and level flight?

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civildog
04-20-2004, 05:05 PM
Because trimming the plane means balancing it aerodynamically it will help make the plane more responsive in manuevering during a fight. For example...a trimmed plane will feel more "bouncy" and climb and dive quicker. You won't have to fight the stick as much when lining up shots or making small corrections in angle.

I always get up to speed and trim the plane ASAP after takeoff. As in real life I notice the plane's trim changes as fuel and ordnance levels drop. Damage affects trim, too, but I have other worries then. I haven't notice the changes in trim require a lot of messing with in the timeframe and context of dogfighting, though. Just set the plane up before the fight and it'll be fine.

I don't mess with it during a fight, though. Too many more pressing matters at hand.

ROSHKO_69.GIAP
04-20-2004, 05:47 PM
in a high speed bounce - I always trim nose down excessively. It greatly helps my accuracy with the cannon that I have to pull rather than push the stick

C!

Roshko

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_roshko.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

civildog
04-20-2004, 06:36 PM
All the planes in the game have different trim responses and some take longer than others to settle down at the different speeds, trim settings, pitch, etc.

Another good thing about the Cobra is that it's not as fiddly with regards to trimming it as say, a 109.

BTW: I've read several times that real fighter pilots always set the trim at slightly up as a little insurance in case of blackouts or damage affecting the controls. That way the plane wants to pitch up if left on it's own.

I've never done that in the game though, the game has a "refly" button.

michapma
04-22-2004, 09:16 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you know what you're up against then you can chose the best version for the task.
For example;
N1: Bomber intercept (Including IL-2s and P-47s), Early year and/or sluggish fighters (most FW-190s).
Q1: In between.
Q10: Yak-3s, La-7s

I prefer the N1 versus just about everything and the Q1 against the late war aircraft (Yak3, La-7).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can kind of tell that Gemini is a dogfight-server pilot. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


I've made it into a habit to trim my aircraft on a regular basis. The HOTAS stick helps with that a great deal, it just takes a nudge with my thumb. Sometimes I'm too finicky with it and lose scanning time because I need to readjust the sensitivity in the middle and want to get it just right (for level flight). It does help my aim as well to adjust the trim for sniping.


I like the N-1 because it's what I've flown the most. My main problem with it is that doesn't easily perform speed-wise with its contemporaries, the G-2 and 190. It also doesn't blatantly outturn the G-2 down low and can't begin to climb with it. That usually leaves the Germans to dictate whether a fight will go on or not. (I'm talking online wars and other historically arranged combat.) High-alt performance is of course poor. Where the Cobra lacks in speed, acceleration (actually I don't know too much about how accelaration compares) and climb, it can make up for in armor and armament. Everyone knows how fragile the 109s can be, especially in the engine. The Cobra's engine often gets knocked out but rarely fails at once. The airframe does sometimes break up--typically the tail section or a wing will come off--but my impression is that it only does this when really appropriate, i.e., not easily. It can take a fair amount of wing damage and still limp home if not fight. Her armament makes her much more dangerous to try and zoom away from, especially an N-1 with a pilot who is a decent shot. The cannon is of course to be feared. I've found I seldom hit with single shots, and have started squeezing off 3-round "bursts". The ammo goes faster, but I get more hits. Of course, if you can lame your opponent with the heavy MGs, one shot is all it takes.

One thing that I used to consider the 39's Achille's heel is its poor elevator response at high speeds. Of course you can use trim, but I try to stick to more historic tactics. It is not very wise to try and follow a Messer or Fokker in a high-speed dive. This can be a bit of a nuisance in servers with full viewing difficulty, because that often means you will lose sight of your opponent--even if he is below you he will fairly easily be able to climb back up to your level. I have found ways to get around this--essentially just flying smarter. It's not necessary to go diving after enemies, especially in a historic engagement.

The inferior speed and climb rate demands that you be ready to fly aggresively. This is where Gemini's advice is handy, flying on the edge of the envelope. It's about mental preparedness to take the fight to the next guy fast and hard. This is something I struggle with, because I am not naturally aggressive--just ask Roshko. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif It's probably the second biggest reason I remain only a slightly above-average pilot (that's a purely qualitative statement mind you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif), the first being a lack of huge amounts of regular stick time honing my skills against live opponents.


For bomber busting and low-to-mid altitude escort the Airacobra is just a great fighter/interceptor. Any Jerry who scorns and dismisses it may soon change their minds if they go up against a practised pilot.

There is one other thing that springs to mind, and that is that you'd best be careful when outnumbered. You can't rely on your speed to carry you out of a fight, you can't easily dive away, and although you are not at any disadvantage when it comes to horizontal and vertical maneuverability (below very high speeds), you're not so much more maneuverable that you can easily avoid passes when outnumbered. Instead you should learn to be unpredictable--keep the enemy guessing and get them to expose themselves, even for a brief time, to those ravaging guns.

Oh, and I avoid head-ons with Fokkers like the plague. There's not much forward protection against all those heavy guns.

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