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View Full Version : Tuesday Card Debate - 12.02.2013 - Chaos Imp



Aza404
02-12-2013, 10:34 AM
Dear Champions,

Today's Tuesday Card Debate is an interesting one. We would like to get your feedback on the Chaos Imp creature card from the inferno faction.

http://static2.cdn.ubi.com/fr/games/mmdoc/ChaosImp.png

Tell us what you think of this card: do you use it? What do you like about it? Why do you hate it?

Best,
Aza

Uraxor
02-12-2013, 10:39 AM
Give this card "Immune to Hero abilities." and I might consider playing it.
This way it has several counters in 85% of decks - not worth playing at all.
(Fireball, EQ,IS, Nergal, Ishuma, Sunburst .. all much cheaper than him. Even Bridge or Shadow Image will net the opponent an advantage...)

The artwork is pretty though - but unfortunately, we ask more from our cards, than just that...

Ipwnfour
02-12-2013, 10:56 AM
Chaos Imp can have a great impact on a game. It has to be dealt with immediatly and nearly always comes at the cost of an extra card.

However like Uraxor said, nearly every hand has a way to deal with Chaos Imp immedaitly at a low(er) cost, so playing the Chaos Imp will practically lose you a turn.


I wish somehow Chaos Imp would be more playable.

efikus
02-12-2013, 12:17 PM
Chaos imp its nice creature.

However like Uraxor said.

Give this card "Immune to Hero abilities." and I might consider playing it.
This way it has several counters in 85% of decks - not worth playing at all.
(Fireball, EQ,IS, Nergal, Ishuma, Sunburst .. all much cheaper than him. Even Bridge or Shadow Image will net the opponent an advantage...)

Disable ability Imumne to retaliation. Attack change to 0. Give him Magic shield even at the cost of increased price (for example 4/1/0 or 3/2/0).

psychobabble.
02-12-2013, 12:29 PM
He's terrible, i've seen him lose more games for its owner (through shadow image or puppet master shenanigans) than i've seen him win. And something I didn't realise for ages either, his ability is a penalty, not a cost. ie. it doesn't say "for your opponent to play a card, he must first discard a card". As it's worded, you can still play a card without discarding if it's your only card in hand which means simply playing out all of your cards is a way to completely neutralise it.

very disappointing card, especially for an epic.

N4rc1ss
02-12-2013, 12:31 PM
Chaos imp its nice creature.

However like Uraxor said.

Disable ability Imumne to retaliation. Attack change to 0. Give him Magic shield even at the cost of increased price (for example 4/1/0 or 3/2/0).

Magic shield is too much... I agree with Uraxor, at least give him immunity to hero abilities (ishuma, nergal), even so, im sure it is not enough...

ioulios
02-12-2013, 05:45 PM
good card but unplayable due to all the above reasons

zenithale
02-12-2013, 06:27 PM
Need 3 HP instead of 1.

r3tsa
02-12-2013, 06:56 PM
Yeah 3 hp and you're gonna see Inferno all over the place.

N4rc1ss
02-13-2013, 01:11 AM
Just some suggestion....

Remove:
- Retaliation immunity
- Chaos imp damage

And add :

When chaos imp died, until your next turn, opponent cannot use creature/spell/fortune cards

Uraxor
02-13-2013, 01:52 AM
Just some suggestion....

Remove:
- Retaliation immunity
- Chaos imp damage

And add :

When chaos imp died, until your next turn, opponent cannot use creature/spell/fortune cards

That's just 'funkier' version of Wasteland.
Isn't Imp hated enough already? Are you trying to make him even worse or what? :D

WalkingHawking
02-13-2013, 04:28 AM
It's a game winning card when played correctly, there are many ways to deal with it for almost every deck(otherwise it'd be an autowin card), but when you don't have a way to deal with it, you're screwed. Even when the Chaos Imp is instantaneously killed it takes a card with him 90% of the times, so... imo, the card is perfectly balanced.

Mryth01
02-14-2013, 10:47 AM
Add to him the ability of Path of Ancestor (immunity to target, even for a single turn would be ok) and it might just be enough to see him in play, or at very least, a more viable option.

Harmbringer
02-14-2013, 10:50 AM
Add to him the ability of Path of Ancestor (immunity to target, even for a single turn would be ok) and it might just be enough to see him in play, or at very least, a more viable option.

And why donīt use the existing Event you meantioned???

Mryth01
02-14-2013, 11:48 AM
And why donīt use the existing Event you meantioned???

I hope that the sole notion of making a card better by making it less reliable on other cards therefore solid on it's own is not too shocking for You harmbringer, that You needed to express yourself with triple question mark.

Non-targetable Chaos-Imp would mean You could spend those 4 action point in the exact time You want/can/benefits You to play him on the board, not when Your path of ancestor comes up.
Yes it would die to all aoe's, non-targetable effects and teleport or even deathseeker (if unguarded) just as easy as currenlty.

Still Imp would be no Banshee in terms of usefulness, but at least he would become more playable epic.

Well that's my 3 cent's to debate.

Harmbringer
02-14-2013, 03:40 PM
well it shocked me because of two facts:
- Balance is relied on other cards! This counts for all cards ingame and if i came up with this I should realize this, this brings me to the second fact...
- I never thought of using an Imp with this event...

So thanks for that input!
Hereīs an one-minute-thought-about-it-deck, and honestly I will try it!
http://www.mmdoc.net/show_deck/644/

This card is epic because it has an unique effect on the game (no itīs not a house of madness, itīs an ONGOING house of madness). If the opoonent looses 2 cards because of it, it was worth the cost. There are plenty more worse Epics out there.

Mryth01
02-14-2013, 06:19 PM
Well, from my experience and testing the biggest issue was immidiate removal of Imp, from firebolts, sunbusts, hero skills (nergal, kelthor, ishuma, kalazar) the list go on and on. Almost all the time Imp get's removed instantly and his biggest weakness is not being immune to targeting. Yes Path of Ancestor helps, but still it doesn't necessary come when needed. It would be best if he has ongoing immunity to targeting, he would still suffer from many counters, but not all of them.

And if You think that if he gets 1:2 trade - so that Your opponent will lose 2 cards to get rid of him, remember that House of Madness produces the same effect, if opponent plays just 1 card, he uses 2 in total while You use 1 and in addition it's far harder to get rid of than chaos imp.

Also the moment I realized how game-winning well placed Pit of Hate is, I already dropped any idea of chaos imp-oriented deck.

Harmbringer
02-15-2013, 10:00 AM
House of Madness does not remove a direct damage spell from opponents hand (unless he chooses one). The Imp will remove one as they are needed to ge rid of him. Removing a Pao and an additional card is totally worth it.

Mryth01
02-15-2013, 09:13 PM
That is a very warped point of view and pretty unstable argument. The is no guarantee that playing imp would benefit You in terms of "luring out" some damage spells.
OTK's could easily get rid of him with throne and lock him out of the field with cards like wasteland.
Spell-aligned both heavy and lighly decks can deal with him with any damaging spells.
Fortune-aligned decks are so fast that the most important turns are the early ones. Fourt onward means way less to them, thus limiting Imp's usefulness.
Also in some cases, Imp will just suffer to popular aoe's such as Insect Swarm/Word of Light/Sunburst/Firestorm/Armageddon and so on, adding nothing more than that 1 discard from opponent's hand.

Playing Imp so that it get's rid of one removal for you is... weird, becouse it doesn't make you come any closer to win condition directly, unlike playing cards such as Dark Assasin who threatens to deal a lot of damage very fast and has a tendency of directing a lot of damaging spells his way.

I understand that Chaos Imp has a very powerful and potentially devastating ability that should be tampered with very carefully, but there is a reason he sees almost no competetive play, which is a shame.

WalkingHawking
02-16-2013, 02:40 AM
I understand that Chaos Imp has a very powerful and potentially devastating ability that should be tampered with very carefully, but there is a reason he sees almost no competetive play, which is a shame.

Give it more power and there will be 4x Chaos Imp in every single Inferno deck.
Btw, i disagree in almost every point, but i'm tired and i don't want to elaborate an answer ;P

Silverace2012
02-16-2013, 08:59 AM
He is devastating if u play 2 or more copies!

Medium High cost for high effect, the only very counters are nergal or ishuma! Every other card u play u must use 2 cards, when u put He in board he become the target of all spell of you opponent and your other creatures are safe and combo with house of madness only for one turn can be devastating

Note: pao counter? who play it without firs line protection? XD

MamuzShah
02-28-2013, 03:57 PM
If players prefer to kill the Chaos Imp before any other creatures, i guess it's a good threat by definition.
In a massive discard deck with a full set of twist of fate (and maybe a full set of halls of amnesia, too), i think Chaos Imp can really shine (does someone already try ?).

For me, the biggest disadvantage of Chaos Imp is that it exists hero's abilities like the Nergal's one. Maybe, that's why Chaos Imp is not popular (*) : its purpose is to discard but it exists non-negligeable possibility to kill it in one turn with 0 card played. It's really not what the Chaos Imp's player want, for sure.

By the end, my conclusion is that i'd like to have a full set to try it in a massive discard deck, because it has one of the strongest ability in the game in my opinion (**).

(*) : However, how many player have a full set to try him correctly ?
(**) : With 3 life point, he should appear in each inferno deck. With the immunity to be targeted, i guess he would become really too strong.

Uraxor
02-28-2013, 05:57 PM
If players prefer to kill the Chaos Imp before any other creatures, i guess it's a good threat by definition.
In a massive discard deck with a full set of twist of fate (and maybe a full set of halls of amnesia, too), i think Chaos Imp can really shine (does someone already try ?).

For me, the biggest disadvantage of Chaos Imp is that it exists hero's abilities like the Nergal's one. Maybe, that's why Chaos Imp is not popular (*) : its purpose is to discard but it exists non-negligeable possibility to kill it in one turn with 0 card played. It's really not what the Chaos Imp's player want, for sure.

By the end, my conclusion is that i'd like to have a full set to try it in a massive discard deck, because it has one of the strongest ability in the game in my opinion (**).

(*) : However, how many player have a full set to try him correctly ?
(**) : With 3 life point, he should appear in each inferno deck. With the immunity to be targeted, i guess he would become really too strong.

The problem is, by the time you can control his hand, you're already overrun (unless it's some silly otk, obviously).
Imp costs 4, today's rushes kill on 5th turn, 7th if you put up a bit of defense (creatures, not trying to pick cards out of their hand). And the deck with Imps couldn't afford better..

(Yes, I have 4 of 'em. No, I never saw point trying it.)

It seriously needs immunity to heroes' abilities. That's make it balanced. This way, too many of the strongest heroes just laugh at it.

MamuzShah
03-01-2013, 02:44 PM
On the paper, it seems good. But, i've not enough experience in this game to know exactly. Ans you seems have experience (and a full set of Chaos Imp ! ;) ...)
What you said seems ok (immunity to hero's abilities only). I think immunity to targeting is a bit too much too much.

Fakirbocko
03-04-2013, 12:30 PM
weird card, depend of deck against you play can be best or worst. But i have question/observation, my opponent play this new turn i have ONLY magic academy in hand, i play it find spell, BUT when i put taht spell in hand imp discard it, how is that posible ? and did is desing that way ?

Uraxor
03-04-2013, 01:34 PM
weird card, depend of deck against you play can be best or worst. But i have question/observation, my opponent play this new turn i have ONLY magic academy in hand, i play it find spell, BUT when i put taht spell in hand imp discard it, how is that posible ? and did is desing that way ?

Yeah, that's correct. If the imp gets you off guard, it's pretty annoying.

xlnt2new
04-10-2013, 11:57 AM
I have 1 copy, not sure if i'll play 2 if i had them, but...

the imp gets my opponent's attention the moment i play it - it gets removed ASAP and it is mostly 2 for 1 OR if events permit it - a turn for event (as events that give +1 attack are costly - well, 3 or 5 resource)

so i choose when and how to play it and it's a good card for me. I use 2x House of Madness - combined i often see the opponent just pass a turn and effectively timewalks his self instead of discarding 2 to play 1.

i'm also a 1001 +/-100 player, so don't take my word for it :)

JinhVindictus
04-20-2013, 08:54 PM
How about turning down the rarity of it ? Most people think its just an OK card and doing anything to it will make it Over powered.
So keep it as it it for "fun" decks but bring down the rareness of it. It wont "help" the card to be more competitive but then again have no idea if that's the path DoC is going for. To make all cards superb to play or also make cards that are fun to play with. As for me and other friends we make decks just to see how crazy they can be. Not necessary the best deck that wins the most but the most annoying deck to play against. And this imp as it is, is pretty annoying, but hard to come by unless you play alot or pay alot.

anyway just a thought from a gamer that just wants to have fun and not win more games that anyone can dream of :p

bbrunetti
04-22-2013, 09:59 PM
Chaos Imp is a very strong card if it is played in multiple copies on one turn.

However, I do have a suggestion, even though I LOATHE the card enough already...

Give Chaos Imp Fire Heal ability as it is the most common magic school for direct damage, AND give him 3 health... BUT, it still gets deployed with ONLY 1 health.

That would balance the card out, IMO.

ShimmerUK2
12-30-2013, 03:56 PM
Choas Imp can be a very Effective Card Best way I can think of using it is with a Imp Jester And maybe a Fortune Like Chamber of Dementia Or house of madness so if any card is used to try and kill it they will lose 2 cards.

But I have agree biggest Issue is how easy it is to kill with spells/Events like Hail Storm/Even fortunes like surprise attack/Sacrifice Altar

While I would normally think of this as a Issue as yes you got them to get rid of 2 cards but it has cost you 4 Resources to do so?

So is it worth the trade off?

I don't think you can give the imp Magic Shield That would be to strong cool but to strong

I thinking more in terms of the Heath increase like 3HP is a good number as that stop it being taken out by super cheap spells like a fireball but still be killed by a PAO or a Lightening bolt

Kinetic_42
12-30-2013, 04:35 PM
3 HP is too much, and would make this card really powerful. Frankly, I don't see the issue with smacking him with spot damage. This card SHOULD be able to be removed that way. The issue is his cost is prohibitive for his benefit.

I think he'd see more play if his requirements were adjusted. 4 might is way too high, and maybe even 4 resources. Drop his might requirement to 2 or 3, add a magic requirement of 1 or 2. Hell, make it a 1/3/0 or 1/3/1, and he'd see a LOT of play in his current form. I'd really like to see his resource cost dropped one as well. My Chaos Imp would be:

(3) 1/3/0 (or 3/1/0)
[1/0/1] Immune to Retaliation; When opponent plays a card, he must discard a card.

This way the card is still useful in its role as a control card, which is what he is, doesn't cost as much, is still relatively easy to remove, and isn't as difficult as it currently is to find a deck slot.

M0rw47h
12-30-2013, 04:37 PM
1/0/3 req would make him good enough

Kinetic_42
12-30-2013, 04:39 PM
1/0/3 req would make him good enough

Fortune requirements would make him overlap with the other Inferno fortunes that do the same thing. I think Might or Magic is the correct requirements for this creature.

sir_z
12-31-2013, 07:56 PM
As the card pool grows, the use for Chaos Imp will appear. It has amazing combo potential, we just don't have it's perfect pair yet.

If anything I would change the requirements to less might and some magic/fortune whatever. Decks that want 4 might are less likely to use a card like this and vise versa.

Valmarth
01-07-2014, 11:12 AM
I want to test a discard deck and it will obv in it.

I like 2 suggestions so far : make it uncommon or common, or make it 3 health.

what about reducing the cost to 3 ? Would it be too strong ?

Uraxor
01-07-2014, 02:42 PM
Give it immunity to Hero abilities. So long as Ishuma & Kelthor are killing ti for free, it's not worth looking at..

zandosgash
09-08-2014, 08:07 AM
4/0/0 requirements were better that 1/0/3 we have now :/