PDA

View Full Version : Southpaws...UNITE!



XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 04:14 PM
As many of you know, I have been on a crusade to find the best Flight-sim input setup for quite some time. I have contacted all of the big names and have come to the conclusion that we (as a community) actually CAN have some input as to what the R&D and marketing departments produce.

The best reception I got was from CH Products. If you are interested in a high quality HOTAS (or similar) setup that caters to the left-handed community, you can send a polite and professional request to the Marketing/Sales Manager for CH Products, Debby McDowell, at this address: debby@chproducts.com

One voice is a quiet whimper...but a united front can be formiddable!

TB

http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg


Message Edited on 10/04/0304:26PM by Thunderbolt56

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 04:14 PM
As many of you know, I have been on a crusade to find the best Flight-sim input setup for quite some time. I have contacted all of the big names and have come to the conclusion that we (as a community) actually CAN have some input as to what the R&D and marketing departments produce.

The best reception I got was from CH Products. If you are interested in a high quality HOTAS (or similar) setup that caters to the left-handed community, you can send a polite and professional request to the Marketing/Sales Manager for CH Products, Debby McDowell, at this address: debby@chproducts.com

One voice is a quiet whimper...but a united front can be formiddable!

TB

http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg


Message Edited on 10/04/0304:26PM by Thunderbolt56

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 04:30 PM
Thunderbolt56 'GLO' Good looking out! A polite note is on the way to Debbie.

<center>
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/151sig.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat/
JOIN OUR SQUAD TODAY!
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/1banner.gif

http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/il2homepage.html

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 04:53 PM
Thanks, and yes its obvious a lot of folks need to make the effort. I've mentioned this before with a little flaming in a previous post, I've never understood why the manufacturers don't reverse the mold. If they hope to profit making joy stick setups there's an entire community of users they've apparently turned their faces on.

One big exception of cource...thank goodness for Saitek.

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 04:56 PM
Not trying to be a smartarse or anything, but considering the real fighter aircraft did, and do, have the throttle on the left hand, stick on the right, would it not be realistic to just keep the righty setup? like I said, it's an honest question.

Hope not to offend any of you southpaws outhere.

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 05:21 PM
Farkitt wrote:
- Not trying to be a smartarse or anything, but
- considering the real fighter aircraft did, and do,
- have the throttle on the left hand, stick on the
- right, would it not be realistic to just keep the
- righty setup? like I said, it's an honest question.
-
- Hope not to offend any of you southpaws outhere.

This is not a flame but, I am a little defensive about the arrogant attitude of alot of right handed folks. There will always be folks that think that lefties should just learn to do many things right handed. We live everyday with this arrogance and its get a little tired sometimes.


Consider this, how would a right handed person feel having to earn to, tie their shoes, write and 'handwrite', throw a baseball, eat with a fork, cut food with a knife, etc... from a left handed teacher? Hmm, kind of like us left handers. If you were left handed I know you would understand what I am saying. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Left handers have to adopt to everything in a right handed world and we handle it well IMHO. However, if this company is compassionate enough to make it I will buy it.

As far as realism goes I guess it is a matter of preference. I personally don't take that too seriously when it comes to trying to level the field when it comes to flying against the majority populous that has a HOTAS setup. For me, playing a 'game' on a computer is where I draw the line. I want comfort over 'realism' regarding thi issue any day.

<center>
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/151sig.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat/
JOIN OUR SQUAD TODAY!
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/1banner.gif

http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/il2homepage.html

Message Edited on 10/04/0309:22AM by UCLANUPE

adlabs6
10-04-2003, 05:28 PM
Hey there,

I left handed also, but this world is built by and for right handed people. I've just learned to do everything right handed, heck I even learned to play the guitar right handed! About the only thing I do left handed these days is write, eat, drink, and use the PC mouse, but still I click with the right handed button arrangement! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I'll see about dropping a note to that address for the sake of the cause though. Who knows, I may just like what they build!

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/sigtemp.JPG (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 05:32 PM
well I apologise for my "Arrogance" then.

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 05:55 PM
I'm glad a joystick manufacturer is finally thinking of us left-handers, but for many it's probably too late now.

I for one have got used to using the left-hand throttle - right-hand stick arrangment, it's been a case of having to or not being able to play games - simple as that.

I also use the mouse with my left hand, but in the right-hand configuration.

I also play golf right-handed because that's the way it was taught by our instructor when I was a teenager (damn, it's all his fault...).

Anyway - all you lefties out there (me included), remember this - it's been 'scientifically-proven' that the left-handed people are in the top 10% of the population who have the highest IQ's.

;-)

Phoenix....

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 05:59 PM
This is starting to seem like a Social Science prodject from high school. lol
Pitng the Left handed minority aginst the right handed majority. i allways hated those things. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Why can't we all just get along /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif
lol


<CENTER>http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p837.jpg
<CENTER>><FONT COLOR="blue">Please visit the 310thVF/BS Online at our NEW web site @:
<CENTER><FONT COLOR="orange"> http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron/
<CENTER>A proud member Squadron of IL-2 vUSAAF
<CENTER>310th VF/BS Public forum:
<CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW"> http://invisionfree.com/forums/310th_VFBG/
<CENTER><CENTER><FONT COLOR="YELLOW">
Proud Sponsor of IL-2 Hangar Forums
<CENTER> Visit the Hangar at:
http://srm.racesimcentral.com/il2.shtml
http://www.brunching.com/images/hellweather.gif (http://www.brunching.com/toys/hellweather.html)
<FONT COLOR="Green">Slainte Mhath- Good Health to you!

Hawgdog
10-04-2003, 06:24 PM
UCLANUPE wrote:
- This is not a flame but, I am a little defensive
- about the arrogant attitude of alot of right handed
- folks.

bwa haa haaa, INDEED!!!
I know what you mean. I'm a left-handed shooter, its hell to find good LH firearms.
Funny considering the low number of lefties in the real world and just how high the number of lefties in "hand-eye coordinated" sports, you'd think they'd offer more.
Saitek is the only one I'm aware of.
I'd buy a CH LH stick similar to those trim-sliding cheaters like...well, you know who.
I'll forward to the FIVE LH fliers I know in FB alone And send an email on. who knows...we can hope
And dam good point on RH attitudes!
Like a black man trying to tell a white man "what its like" there aint no knowing until you walk in those shoes! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<center></script>Hoping for a new tone at these forums
Welcome new fliers!
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 07:05 PM
This is mostly directed at since Thunderbolt56 since he started the thread, but I'm interested in any southpaw's opinon: How much extra would you be willing to pay for a left-handed joystick? For example, the CH Fighterstick USB is a right-handed stick that sells for about $100 US. How much would you lefties be willing to pay for a stick that is identical in every respect (number of buttons, programmability, etc) except for being a mirror image? 20% more? 50% more? I'm asking because I assume the reason that you don't see left-handed hardware is that they can't sell enough of them to justify the extra costs: i.e. the extra tooling for left handed grips, the RMAs ("I bought the wrong one..."), etc. So if the companies were to pass those costs on to you guys, how much would you be willing to pay?

I'm honestly curious, no flames or arrogance intended.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When my brother and I built and flew the first man-carrying flying machine, we thought that we were introducing into the world an invention which would make further wars impossible..."

Orville Wright, 1917

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 07:12 PM
Well, I'm left-handed and right eye dominant. Because of this I've been able to do many things in a right-handed configuration. I was a switch hitter all the way through college. I play golf righty (with a 4 handicap I might add) and shoot most shoulder arms right handed also.

My point is the same as was posted earlier by someone else (don't remember who...sorry). The wiring, base and tooling would require little if any alteration. The only thing that is needed is to "mirror" the current models.

There is NOT a high-end input device that caters to the left-handed community and the first one to the table with a legitimate device will likely realize a substantial increase in market share. This in a market where 5% is quite a bit!

Once the market is saturated (2 years or so) it would probably cease production until the controllers wore out or enough new users entered the market.

If it matters...send the letter.

Thanks,

TB



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

adlabs6
10-04-2003, 07:14 PM
There shouldn't be any extra cost for the joystick to be designed from the beginning for use by either hand. Mind you, theres no way such a stick is going to look like a traditional HOTAS, but then, thats part of the problem. With a little thought something could be worked out. Look at that CH joystick with the buttons and hats arranged so they are the same from either grip position. The same could be done with a throttle unit. In fact, the throttle quadrants in most aircraft can be operated easily from both the left and right seats.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/sigtemp.JPG (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 07:21 PM
I'm also a lefty who flies right-handed. It's been so long I'm not sure I could fly the other way around. I think lefties are generally stuck having to adapt to the right handed world, but hey as a result I can shoot pool with either hand!

DangerForward

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 07:48 PM
They need a throttle assembly that can swap between left and right hand setups by say, flipping the control column over. Itd be pretty simple IMO, if you put your head to it.

Look at the P-47's control stick for an example, that stick appears to be able to fit both right and left hands with no trouble.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Hawgdog
10-04-2003, 09:46 PM
Leadfinger_71 wrote:
- This is mostly directed at since Thunderbolt56 since
- he started the thread, but I'm interested in any
- southpaw's opinon: How much extra would you be
- willing to pay for a left-handed joystick?

20%

Saitek has a stick that can be adjusted for LH or RH handed fliers.
Same cost.

<center></script>Hoping for a new tone at these forums
Welcome new fliers!
When you get to hell, tell 'em Hawgdog sent you
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:23 PM
Go TB! I have submitted in writing to the Aircraft Design Bureau OKB-301 and S. Lavochkin himself that a special run of La5-L's with the throttle quadrant moved to the right hand side be produced from our newly moved GAZ No 21 production facility. I have also requested that a ashtray be installed as in our Yak fighters so you may not be inconvenianced by cigarette ash on the floor of your new fighter.

Best Regards,
Lunix (Wingy)

<div align='center'>
<a href='http://greatergreen.com/il2/'>
http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg
</a>
</div>

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 12:02 AM
LOL Lunix! I appreciate your vote to the AC manufacturers.

In regards to Leadfinger71's question about price, I would be willing to pay double the price if I could get the same thing the right-handers have. I am fortunate that I don't have to worry too much about the relative cost of my computer peripherals as I have already justified through spreadsheets the "value" and return on investment I get from having this as a hobby as opposed to RL flying and 2 rounds of golf each week. (btw, I AM a pilot and golfer)

On a more realistic level for most others, I think price may be more of a concern. I for one wouldn't be buying one every few months though so the cost is almost irrelevant.

Mrs. TB sometimes questions my reasoning, but always comes through in the end. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg


Message Edited on 10/05/0312:12AM by Thunderbolt56

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 01:34 AM
The sad truth is nothing is right handed or left handed. I'm left handed, but I do everything right handed. It's being ambidextrous.

It all started when my dad refused to let me wear my baseball glove on my right hand. He also refused to let me shoot right handed. It's funny though I can draw a schematic with my right hand, and a picture of someones face with my left.

I believe saitek or somebody makes a joystick that can be adjusted for right or left handers. I fly left handed half the time with a right handed joystick because I track much better with the mouse than the hat switch.

Every take-off is optional, but every landing is mandatory!

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 04:16 AM
MODERATORS !

PLEASE BAN THESE FREAKS OF NATURE !

THEY ARE A DANGER TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS !

thankyou.



Lixma,

Blitzpig.

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 07:13 AM
I used to like you Lixma...

Now, back to the subject. The most important item would actually be the throttle as there are a number of "ambi" sticks. A throttle would be a start.

Send the letter! ( you too Lixma...your penance is to get on board!)



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 07:47 AM
Lixma wrote:
- MODERATORS !
-
- PLEASE BAN THESE FREAKS OF NATURE !
-
- THEY ARE A DANGER TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS !
-
- thankyou.
-
- Lixma,
-
- Blitzpig.
-

?????????????????

<center>
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/151sig.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat/
JOIN OUR SQUAD TODAY!
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/1banner.gif

http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/il2homepage.html

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 07:53 AM
It's interesting to find out just how many left-handed people are flying this sim.

I'm left-handed also. In grade school I used my left hand to learn to write cursive. I just copied how it was "supposed to be done" with my left hand instead of my right. I was lucky because my parents and teachers never tried to "change" my left-handedness. However I learned to do many things right-handed, like play the guitar. I've found that if you've never done something before, however you're taught at the outset defines how you continue to do it in the future. Of course I'm somewhat ambedextrious so I'm sure that helps. I tried baseball and golf right- handed but found that unless I used my left hand I did not have the same corordination.

Like many of you I fly right-handed, and it feels natural, even though my current joystick (Saitek X7-38) is ambedextrious in handle design. But I was forced to use it right-handed because of the throttle being on the left side of the base. I tried to switch but now it feels "unnatural". Next week when my new X-45 arrives I'll be set to use it right-handed.

And, like many of you, I use the mouse with my left hand but with a right-handed configuration. I've learned to do this because at work I have to share PC's with my fellow employees.

As for a price difference if a left-handed HOTAS was produced...no more than 25%. I understand that for most manufacturers making a left-handed model would cost money in re-tooling. (Most left-handed guitars cost 20-30% more for this reason).

But like I've always said, (and it was the sig line of my previous handle)

"Only left handed people are in their right minds."

<center>Beebop-ProudBirds-VFW<center>http://www.uploadit.org/files/230903-Beebop%20Sig.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 09:27 AM
If you are interested in a high quality Moderator that will cater to disgruntled rightys, you can send a polite and professional request to Ubi.com.. If enough folks join the effort you may have the long overdue change and finally...Lixma can take over.

One voice is a grumpy wimp...but a united front will be down right obnoxious!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

disgruntled lefty

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 10:20 AM
I'm lefthanded also. Funny thing is that my folks believed it was a right handed world out there and forced me to write with my right hand, I also fly right handed but do other things lefthanded (open for jokes about this /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ). Wierd huh.....

P.S bump this thread......I'll write a polite note when I get back from sea.


<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 10:53 AM
Lefty's are Sinister........./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

(as sinister comes from the latin "Sinestra", meaning left handed)

But you would have thought something would have been sorted out for (or by) them as their numbers haven't changed (23%) in 10,000 years....

http://www.pubs.royalsoc.ac.uk/biol_lett/abstracts/faurie.html

Surely almost 1/4 of the population is a pretty good market....

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 11:49 AM
So we right-handed people have cars with manual transmission and the gear-stick in our right hand and left-handed buy automatic or move to states with left-side-of-the-road-driving?? Na, that's not correct, even today, most pilots are taught to fly an aircraft from the left seat and in most aircrafts that means that you control the throttle with your right hand and the yoke with your left and guess what? I do the same, but when flying FB I use the right hand for the stick and left for the throttle. It's all about learning.

rgds

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 01:37 PM
jmmoric wrote:
- So we right-handed people have cars with manual
- transmission and the gear-stick in our right hand
- and left-handed buy automatic or move to states with
- left-side-of-the-road-driving??



No No No.......A right handed car has the gearstick on the left handside..As we have in Gods country

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


<center><img src= "http://homepage.ntlworld.com/n.bulger/Emil_Bug.jpg">

AKA JG5_Emil

"I wish we all had the courage to confine our defence to three simple words....LICK MY A*S!" Herman Goering

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 01:49 PM
adlabs6 wrote:
- There shouldn't be any extra cost for the joystick
- to be designed from the beginning for use by either
- hand. Mind you, theres no way such a stick is going
- to look like a traditional HOTAS, but then, thats
- part of the problem. With a little thought something
- could be worked out. Look at that CH joystick with
- the buttons and hats arranged so they are the same
- from either grip position. The same could be done
- with a throttle unit. In fact, the throttle
- quadrants in most aircraft can be operated easily
- from both the left and right seats.

I disagree..... Look at that Saitek stick.... If they just designed a throttle that was more of a T than a upside down L OR one that could simply be unscrewed at the handle and turned around it shouldnt be too hard. I am righty BTW but my Mom is lefty and my son is ambidextrous..he writes with his left, throws with his right, catches and draws with either......

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 03:35 PM
Thunderbolt56 wrote:
- LOL Lunix! I appreciate your vote to the AC
- manufacturers.
-
- In regards to Leadfinger71's question about price, I
- would be willing to pay double the price if I could
- get the same thing the right-handers have. I am
- fortunate that I don't have to worry too much about
- the relative cost of my computer peripherals as I
- have already justified through spreadsheets the
- "value" and return on investment I get from having
- this as a hobby as opposed to RL flying and 2 rounds
- of golf each week. (btw, I AM a pilot and golfer)


Thanks TB and the rest who commented on my question on price.

Here is something you might want to suggest to the companies you contact. Why not ask them to produce left handed grips that are available for purchase separately from the stick directly through the manufacturer? The internals of the CH hardware for example is anything but complicated, so you ought to be able to take the stick apart, remove all of the hat switches and buttons and remount them into a left handed handle. Though this wouldn't solve the problem of having the throttle wheel on the wrong side (that would require a new base and new gimbals) it would at least give you a left handed grip. I don't know if taking apart the stick voids your warranty under normal circumstances (I doubt it), but if it does, perhaps they would make an exception if you had one of these left handed handles installed.

By having the handles purchased separately and directly through the manufacturer, you elminate the cost of "oops" returns (you're not going to accidentally buy something like that) and you don't have the costs associated with putting a left handed joystick in the retail market (changing the boxes, getting the retailers to stock them, etc). If a company like CH did this, the word would spread through the flight sim community all by itself, no real marketing would be needed other than a press release on the website.

From what I've heard, I think CH would be receptive to an idea like this.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When my brother and I built and flew the first man-carrying flying machine, we thought that we were introducing into the world an invention which would make further wars impossible..."

Orville Wright, 1917

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 09:10 PM
Im a lefty http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and Im willing to pay 20 to 30 percent more to be comfortable. I Spend alot of time shooting rifles and I pay around 100 bucks extra for a 500 to 600 dollar rifle ,,, think god for savage arms company they dont charge any extra for southpaws but they only run out a few batches of them a year so you have to wait.
RCAF_Hawk

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 04:01 AM
I'm a righty but use the CH yoke. It's awesome.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:50 PM
^

(keepin' the dream alive! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )





http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 12:49 AM
RCAF_Hawk2 wrote:
- Im a lefty /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif and Im willing to pay 20 to 30 percent
- more to be comfortable....they dont charge any extra for
- southpaws but they only run out a few batches of
- them a year so you have to wait.
- RCAF_Hawk
-
-

I'm willing to wait, but the wait would be so much easier if I knew they were being made!



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 02:09 AM
Didn't bother reading the whole thread, but, you would want a reversed HOTAS setup? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Before you say anything, I'm left handed too. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 03:25 AM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- Didn't bother reading the whole thread, but, you
- would want a reversed HOTAS setup?



Yep...throttle in right hand, stick in left. I currently use a MSFFB2 in my left hand and my CH Pro throttle upside down in my right with the axis reversed. It works, but could be SOOOO much better. I've learned to adapt (as I'm sure you can sympathise...fellow lefty /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )





http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

Hawgdog
10-07-2003, 09:13 PM
southpaw bump

<center></script>The Original HawgDog
Join the club! Enlist today!
Names similar still available- HogDawg (no hyphen) Hawg-Dog, HugDawg, HowgDog,Hawg-Dog (use hyphen), And I believe Hawg-Doggie(pending)
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 09:34 PM
Im a southpaw but almost an ambi because it is so much easier (and cheaper) to learn stuff right handed. I play bass lefty but I can swtich hit on batting, using a mouse, pucnhing, choking the bishop, fencing, use a fork or whatever needs doing.
I wonder how real life pilots handled this?

<img src=http://216.22.248.215/bp_caocao.gif>

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:11 PM
I know about adapting. It's what I did to use controls like they were in the real plane. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Like caocao I am really a mix, but say I'm left handed because it's what I use to eat, write and draw with. While I can "switch hit" with those things, it's not comfortable or easy. Just about everything else I can either use either hand/foot or am acclimated to using the right hand side.

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:33 PM
caocao666 wrote:
-
- I wonder how real life pilots handled this?

They got shot down? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I feel for you guys. I have trouble doing things with my right hand. Forget my left! (Uh, I am right handed. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

adlabs6
10-07-2003, 11:36 PM
BlitzPig_DDT wrote:
- I know about adapting. It's what I did to use
- controls like they were in the real plane.

I found that by putting my X45 stick between my knees, that the left right issue was diminished even more. It's pretty easy to switch to whatever hand you want when the stick centered rather than sitting to the right by default.

Yea, "ambidextrous". Hadn't used the term in a long while so I'd forgotten. I suppose left handed people are just more at ease using the wrong hand for a task, since they often have no choice. Always was funny in school, since I can write with both my left and right hands (left is nautural and better), I'd write with the left hand correctly (left to right), and write a perfect mirror image page with my right hand at the same time. Not only the words going right to left, but written in cursive backwards, so that a mirror is required to read it. No one else I demonstrated that to could do it.

<html>
<body>
<table cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" border="0" width="600" align="center">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#ffffff">
<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><font color="000000">adlabs<font color="#ff9900">6</font></font>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td valign="top" bgcolor="#42524e">
<div align="center"><font color="#999999">
http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/sigtemp.JPG (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skins_historical_adlabs6.htm)
<small><font color="#ff6600">NEW</font> at mudmovers! Click the pic to download my skins from mudmovers.com!</small>
</font>
Skinner's Guide at mudmovers (http://mudmovers.com/Sims/FB/fb_skinnersguide.htm) | Skinner's heaven (http://www.1java.org/sh) | IL2skins (http://www.il2skins.com)
<font color="#999999">
My Forgotten Battles Webpage (http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/index.html) Current Wallpaper: <font color="#999999">Bf-109 Morning Run</font></font>

<A HREF="http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zhiwg" TARGET=_blank>"Whirlwind Whiner"
The first of the few</A>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</body>
</html>

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 11:54 PM
Lefty here. Write left, eat left, bat left, throw a football left but a baseball right. The first flight controller I ever used was this no-name flight yoke with JetfighterII in the early 90's. Tried for years after to build a comfortable setup with flight sticks, HOTAS, and the Saitek X45. I finally gave up 3 years ago and have been happily using a CH Flight Yoke ever since /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Dennis

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:15 AM
Well, The fact is I was fully ambidextrous through high school. I actually got a write up in many Texas newspapers because I would roll right and throw righty and roll left and throw lefty (played QB btw). I was in a car accident that left me with 40% mobility in my right arm after it was reattached (yes...reattached). I used to bowl right or left-handed as well. Oh well.

I got a response from CH Products that I wanted to share.

Debby McDowell wrote:

Hi again,

Thank you for sending me the link. After reading the thread, I now understand why I've received so many emails lately regarding this.

Unfortunately, whereas the idea to offer a modification to our existing throttle is good, it is not something that CH Products can do. Manufacturing costs prohibits us from developing a product that will not sell well enough to break even. The main cost of developing a controller comes from the mold and tooling. Since CH Products manufactures everything in the United States, our manufacturing costs are much higher than those sent off shore. We simply are not willing to jeopardize the quality of our products to do so.

There may indeed be a substantial percentage of left-handers in the world, but that ratio does not necessarily reflect that of the flight sim community. I'm sorry to say that the chances of developing a specific throttle for lefties is slim to none.

I'm sorry I am not able to provide the answers you seek. Thank you!



Best Regards,

Debby McDowell
Director of Sales & Marketing

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
CH Products
a division of Joystick Technologies, Inc.
970 Park Center Drive
Vista, CA 92081

Email: Debby@chproducts.com
Tel: 760-598-2518
Fax: 760-598-2524

Click here to subscribe to our online newsletter
Newsletter subscription http://www.chproducts.com/retail/subscrib.html

Read recent reviews of CH Products' controllers at http://www.chproducts.com/retail/reviews.html

Media images: ftp://ftp.chproducts.com/pub/media/

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


So, I guess that's that. I won't stop trying though...I'm persistent if nothing else.

TB


http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:57 AM
Feck CH. ThrustMaster is and always has been the good. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Seriously, get a Cougar. Hang out at Cougar world and you can use the circuitry to build a custom throttle, and then build a handle for the stick itself, since it's removeable/replaceable (by same or different designs).

The most difficult thing would be engineering/building the handles for each side, but, it could certainly be done, even if you have to carve them our of wood. lol

Plus you get the benefit of 7 axes and 28 buttons in addition to the greatest progammability.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 12:58 AM
Well, thankyou for your efforts TB. Also, a bit of your extraordinary history.

I'm glad Debby responded, it was considerate, but it left me disappointed. If she did not include her second to last paragraph, it would have been easier for me to accept. How can she possibly assume the percentage of left-handed flight simmers does not equate with the norm?

At least she was prompt, and we have no false hopes.

XyZspineZyX
10-08-2003, 01:25 AM
Debbie was a busy beaver. Here is my letter and her response. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

At 08:50 AM 10/4/2003, you wrote:

I understand that your company may be considering making a Lefthanded HOTAS. I would just like to say this would be a GODSEND in a way for many left handed flyers in the PC sim community. I understand our numbers are woefully small in comparsion to the mainstream.

Not to be melodramtic, but it is not easy for the average lefthander to translate hand eye skills like those unique left handed fighter pilots in the real world. They are special. The average left handed simmer like me(ours numbers are small), just has too hard a time and has to use other methods like some of the multi buttion mouses with track balls and sliders. Our right handed brethren with you great HOTAS systems are at a distinct advantage

I just wanted to add my two cents to the discussion. Thank you for your time and consideration in the handling of this matter.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for taking the time to write to me with your interest in a left-handed HOTAS. Unfortunately, CH Products does not plan on developing such a product. We are, however, currently researching the development of a multi-lever Throttle Quadrant, that can be used on either side of you. Our target date on the Throttle Quadrant is late 2004.

For more information on our current offerings, please feel free to check our website at http://www.chproducts.com/retail/index.html. If you would like to subscribe to my online newsletter, please continue on to the media section of our site at http://www.chproducts.com/retail/subscrib.html.


<center>
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/151sig.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat/
JOIN OUR SQUAD TODAY!
http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/images/1banner.gif

http://sunstarentertainment.maddsites.com/il2homepage.html

Hawgdog
10-18-2003, 01:40 AM
bump

<center></script>The Original HawgDog
Join the club! Enlist today!
Names similar still available- HogDawg (no hyphen) Hawg-Dog, HugDawg, HowgDog,Hawg-Dog (use hyphen), And I believe Hawg-Doggie(pending)
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 01:59 AM
Interesting post!

I am a southpaw and i will have to agree with the righties on this one, if that is where the throttle is supposed to be, thats it, for me , end of story... i'm quite sure no govt ever produced planes custom built for their left handed pilots (i don't think even the U.S. govt would get that crazy on spending, lol).

But as for other input devices like mice and keyboards i set those up left handed, and prefer devices that are dexterity neutral. i use a logitech track ball mouse which is totally neutral and i re map my keyboard buttons a bit.

I play guitar and play hockey rightie ;-)

Major Troz

http://home.alltel.net/dhasso/Pics/bannerwork1f.jpg

Hawgdog
10-18-2003, 05:13 AM
UCLANUPE wrote:
- Debbie was a busy beaver. Here is my letter and her
- response.

Mine was lamer than that, "please try our blah blah, its ambidextrous"

pffffft

<center></script>The Original HawgDog
Join the club! Enlist today!
Names similar still available- HogDawg (no hyphen) Hawg-Dog, HugDawg, HowgDog,Hawg-Dog (use hyphen), And I believe Hawg-Doggie(pending)
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 01:59 PM
Hawgdog wrote:
-

- I know what you mean. I'm a left-handed shooter, its
- hell to find good LH firearms.

yes, I remember getting all too many shell casings from the M-16A1 in my face, on my arm etc etc...ouch! Fortunately, I mainly used the FN-FAL, which threw the casings on a lower arc.

- Funny considering the low number of lefties in the
- real world and just how high the number of lefties
- in "hand-eye coordinated" sports, you'd think they'd
- offer more.

It's also interesting to consider that "lefties" have historically made up a disproportionately larger PC user group.

I'd have loved a LH joystick initially when I first started playing IL-2, but now I'm so used to mouse in left, joystick in right, I'm loath to change. I will however send off some email...I could always make the effort to change /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

cheers,
Tony
(flying as "wombat" on HL)


< !--image map -->
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~tonybirchill/sig.jpg
<map name="main">
<area shape="rect" coords="0,0,200,54" href="http://www.il2airracing.com/" alt="Il2 online air racing">
<area shape="rect" coords="200,0,400,54" href="http://pub82.ezboard.com/b1ejava" alt="skinners heaven">
</map>


oh yeah, and I'm a Whirlwind whiner too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hawgdog
10-18-2003, 02:57 PM
LOL, yeah had an empty hot case hit the bill of my hat, bounce up and land between my shooting glasses and forehead
Still have the scar....
backseatgunner wrote:
-
- Hawgdog wrote:
--
-
-
-- I know what you mean. I'm a left-handed shooter, its
-- hell to find good LH firearms.
-
- yes, I remember getting all too many shell casings
- from the M-16A1 in my face, on my arm etc
- etc...ouch! Fortunately, I mainly used the FN-FAL,
- which threw the casings on a lower arc.
-
-- Funny considering the low number of lefties in the
-- real world and just how high the number of lefties
-- in "hand-eye coordinated" sports, you'd think they'd
-- offer more.
-
- It's also interesting to consider that "lefties"
- have historically made up a disproportionately
- larger PC user group.
-
- I'd have loved a LH joystick initially when I first
- started playing IL-2, but now I'm so used to mouse
- in left, joystick in right, I'm loath to change. I
- will however send off some email...I could always
- make the effort to change /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
- cheers,
- Tony
- (flying as "wombat" on HL)
-
-
- < !--image map -->
- <img
- src="http://members.optusnet.com.au/~tonybirchill/
- sig.jpg" usemap="#main" border="0" WIDTH="400"
- HEIGHT="54">
- <map name="main">
- <area shape="rect" coords="0,0,200,54"
- href="http://www.il2airracing.com/" alt="Il2 online
- air racing">
-
- <area shape="rect" coords="200,0,400,54"
- href="http://pub82.ezboard.com/b1ejava"
- alt="skinners heaven">
-
- </map>
-
-

- oh yeah, and I'm a Whirlwind whiner too /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



<center></script>The Original HawgDog
Join the club! Enlist today!
Names similar still available- HogDawg (no hyphen) Hawg-Dog, HugDawg, HowgDog,Hawg-Dog (use hyphen), And I believe Hawg-Doggie(pending)
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif

Tully__
10-18-2003, 03:21 PM
I want a set of left handed rudder pedals.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center> ================================================== ========================= </center>

<center> <img src=http://members.optusnet.com.au/tully_78th/Corsair.jpg> </center>

<center> The "under performing planes" thread (http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=35;t=007540) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </center>
<center> Forum Terms of Use (http://www.ubi.com/US/Info/TermsOfUse.htm) </center>
<center> Sig size limits (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yzrgs)</center>
<center><font size="-2" color="#88aadd">IL2 Forums Moderator</font></center>


Salut
Tully

Hawgdog
10-18-2003, 03:49 PM
I've seen you fly! I thought you already had a set/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center></script>The Original HawgDog
Join the club! Enlist today!
Names similar still available- HogDawg (no hyphen) Hawg-Dog, HugDawg, HowgDog,Hawg-Dog (use hyphen), And I believe Hawg-Doggie(pending)
http://users.zoominternet.net/~cgatewood/assets/images/sharkdog.gif