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View Full Version : Why do you guys think Connor is not a "True" assassin



TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 10:11 PM
Just something, i've been hearing about. just wanna know exactly what explanation there is to support this belief.

KOM_95
12-12-2012, 10:29 PM
I think he is. He was trained by the Assassin Mentor, expert at parkour, efficent at killing.
I think people say he is not a "true" Assassin is because he does alot of other suff as well. Captains a ship, hunting, brawling etc.

TOMatXL
12-12-2012, 10:31 PM
I think it looks that way because Connor's story was more a personal matter. Seems like he searched the Assassins guilt himself having heard not too much about it and was solely trained by the old guy. (last man standing??) Seemed to me Connor did not know what he was doing representing it, and was only told the value it once represented.

Ezio on the other hand went trough an even greater massacre with half of the family wiped out but that personal matter was quickly shoved aside (too rushed imo) and so it were the Assassins who rang the bells and made him the leader for the greater cause.

So I guess the big difference lies here ... AC 1 up to Revelations was all about the assassins, AC3 was a personal story.

Then the question suddenly comes up in my mind: Connor chose to be an Assassin as the son of a templar... how does this fit in with Desmond and the bloodline of Ancestors..? For him to be able to 'possess' Connor, doesn't he need to be in the bloodline? And doesn't it mean that Connor should have been a descendant of Ezio? Oh well, perhaps somewhere down the road one chose to head over to the other camp...

Just confused I think, it's been a long day ... ;)

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 10:39 PM
just so we are all clear. Ezio didn't become an assassin till almost the last part of the game in AC2...

TheBearJew32
12-12-2012, 10:44 PM
Maybe it's because Conner didn't really know what the assassins represented, there was hardly any mentions of the creed or rules or whatever. It wasn't explained to him as in depth as it should have been. Achilles said something like "you think you can just put those on and call yourself an assassin?" yet that's sorta how it went down. idk maybe im talking (typing?) out of my butt but i see ezio and altair as assassins, but conner is just conner. He thinks for himself idk

TOMatXL
12-12-2012, 10:47 PM
just so we are all clear. Ezio didn't become an assassin till almost the last part of the game in AC2...

True, The show began just after his father was captured and hanged, but before that it was more of an introduction and background story in his early years I guess.

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-12-2012, 10:49 PM
I agree. Altair was always in the order for the sake of being in it. Ezio joined up for revenge but at the end of the second game became an Assassin and dedicated to the order for reasons other than revenge. Connor, who I think is great as a character, doesn't seem like an assassin to ME. This is because he joined more or less to avenge his village and mother and whatnot correct? From that point on he only wants to kill Templars and whatever to lead him to the man he wants. There is never this "greater war" going on like in the other games. However this could also be due to the order almost being non existent at this point, right? I'm not sure. Anyway, I feel like Connor never had that moment of doing what he was doing for something greater than himself and for nothing but dedication to the order which is why, although I love him, I feel like he is not a "true" assassin. Again, all opinions though.

ACfan443
12-12-2012, 10:50 PM
I didn't know people thought he wasn't a "true assassin". But my thoughts are that with the game being called "Assassin's Creed" it's ironic that there's no mention of the creed, he's also not inducted into the order properly - no finger branding/chopping, ceremony etc. I also felt that there wasn't a sense of an assassin order, it was just Connor walking around on his own in this uniform.

Deadlysyns666
12-12-2012, 10:51 PM
True, The show began just after his father was captured and hanged, but before that it was more of an introduction and background story in his early years I guess. he doesn't become an Assassin until Venice dude after he gets the Apple. There was also no Ceremony anymore. Achilles says that they used to have a Ceremony and say some things but that time is passed. AC fan listen to Achilles he says the days of the Ceremony are over its becoming more like the Assassins Desmond joined

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 10:54 PM
Ezio joined out of revenge. Connor joined so he'd have the power to protect his villiage.
You guys don't understand, that Connor didn't seek out achillies to kill charles lee. Charles lee just so happened to be one of the people achillies said he needed to kill.

TheBearJew32
12-12-2012, 10:56 PM
"However this could also be due to the order almost being non existent at this point, right? I'm not sure."
yeah what's up with this part? why was there no clues or explanations given as to why there was only Achilles? did ze emperor execute order 66 again to kill off all the jed... ( I ) mean assassins?

TrueAssassin77
12-12-2012, 10:58 PM
"However this could also be due to the order almost being non existent at this point, right? I'm not sure."
yeah what's up with this part? why was there no clues or explanations given as to why there was only Achilles? did ze emperor execute order 66 again to kill off all the jed... ( I ) mean assassins?

haytham caused it. he caused the destruction of the american brotherhood

Deadlysyns666
12-12-2012, 11:03 PM
haytham caused it. he caused the destruction of the american brotherhood either way The days of Ezio are gone and its becoming more like it is in Desmonds time no ceremony etc.

Rugterwyper32
12-12-2012, 11:06 PM
I didn't know people thought he wasn't a "true assassin". But my thoughts are that with the game being called "Assassin's Creed" it's ironic that there's no mention of the creed, he's also not inducted into the order properly - no finger branding/chopping, ceremony etc. I also felt that there wasn't a sense of an assassin order, it was just Connor walking around on his own in this uniform.

Then again, as Achilles said, neither of them were fit for ceremonies and honestly, there wasn't much of a brotherhood by that point. Just like the Templars in the Ezio trilogy felt more like power-crazed maniacs, the assassins in this game didn't really feel like assassins but as something else, which makes sense. From what I can tell, we've seen both orders at their lowest point.

SkiesSeven
12-12-2012, 11:13 PM
Connor is not just an assassin, he's also a hunter, a community leader, and sometimes a mail man.

TOMatXL
12-12-2012, 11:14 PM
he doesn't become an Assassin until Venice dude after he gets the Apple. There was also no Ceremony anymore. Achilles says that they used to have a Ceremony and say some things but that time is passed. AC fan listen to Achilles he says the days of the Ceremony are over its becoming more like the Assassins Desmond joined

I know but he did got the outfit from his fathers chest at the time, that wasn't all that late in the game wasn't it?

Deadlysyns666
12-12-2012, 11:16 PM
I know but he did got the outfit from his fathers chest at the time, that wasn't all that late in the game wasn't it?
The clothes don't make the Man

DavisP92
12-12-2012, 11:23 PM
I think it looks that way because Connor's story was more a personal matter. Seems like he searched the Assassins guilt himself having heard not too much about it and was solely trained by the old guy. (last man standing??) Seemed to me Connor did not know what he was doing representing it, and was only told the value it once represented.

Ezio on the other hand went trough an even greater massacre with half of the family wiped out but that personal matter was quickly shoved aside (too rushed imo) and so it were the Assassins who rang the bells and made him the leader for the greater cause.

So I guess the big difference lies here ... AC 1 up to Revelations was all about the assassins, AC3 was a personal story.

Then the question suddenly comes up in my mind: Connor chose to be an Assassin as the son of a templar... how does this fit in with Desmond and the bloodline of Ancestors..? For him to be able to 'possess' Connor, doesn't he need to be in the bloodline? And doesn't it mean that Connor should have been a descendant of Ezio? Oh well, perhaps somewhere down the road one chose to head over to the other camp...

Just confused I think, it's been a long day ... ;)

The only true assassin was Altair, Ezio wasn't really a assassin more just a brute, just like Connor. How can you say AC3 was a personal story but AC2, ACB, and ACR weren't. AC2 was all about revenge up till the very last moment. Then ACB was all about revenge again. And ACR was mainly about, "Oh i'm falling in love". AC2-R was more personal then AC3.

AC1 was actually a war between assassin and templars, AC2 was a battle between a man looking for revenge and 15 templars, ACB was a fight between a older man wanting revenge and 4 templars, ACR was a scuffle between a really old man wanting to find love and 3 templars. AC3 was a war between a used toy (Connor) and templars.

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-12-2012, 11:33 PM
haytham caused it. he caused the destruction of the american brotherhood
He did? O.o sorry it's been a while since I've hopped in the game. I'm still not sure... I feel like Connor still didn't have any devotion to the Order. Even those small remnants of it. You know what I mean? I feel like, it was almost a tool he used to be able to take down the men he wanted to kill. Again my memory of the story is foggy so correct/remind me if I'm missing some points.

Deadlysyns666
12-12-2012, 11:38 PM
He did? O.o sorry it's been a while since I've hopped in the game. I'm still not sure... I feel like Connor still didn't have any devotion to the Order. Even those small remnants of it. You know what I mean? I feel like, it was almost a tool he used to be able to take down the men he wanted to kill. Again my memory of the story is foggy so correct/remind me if I'm missing some points.

Devotion to the order has become about one thing only killing Templars it was the same in AC 2

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-12-2012, 11:46 PM
Devotion to the order has become about one thing only killing Templars it was the same in AC 2
Hmm...I guess you are right. I don't know though...I feel like it was a coincidence that the men Connor wanted to kill were Templars. Like, he didn't kill them because they were templars, but because they would lead him to his ultimate goal of Lee, not simply because they were Templars and he wanted to fight the war of a dying Order. That's just how I remember feeling after the endgame.

D.I.D.
12-12-2012, 11:54 PM
If there's a difference, I guess it would be that Altair and Ezio were all about the contract. Ezio had specific people he wanted to hit, but other people told him he had to strike others first.

Another thing is about where the characters feel most comfortable. Altair and Ezio seemed at ease crouched on urban rooftops, so they seemed like they had some kind of kinship with the eagles roosting up there. Connor's equivalent is the Frontier landscape itself, where he's got the trees and the bushes as cover. Everyone else walking through a city feels like prey to Ezio and Altair, whereas for Connor that's everyone who walks in his forest.

That's good though. It'd be a shame if every assassin was the same.

Deadlysyns666
12-13-2012, 12:01 AM
Hmm...I guess you are right. I don't know though...I feel like it was a coincidence that the men Connor wanted to kill were Templars. Like, he didn't kill them because they were templars, but because they would lead him to his ultimate goal of Lee, not simply because they were Templars and he wanted to fight the war of a dying Order. That's just how I remember feeling after the endgame.
Connor was protecting his Villiage as told to by Juno

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-13-2012, 12:09 AM
Right right, I remember the whole scene with flying as the eagle and everything now. OK, i gotchya.

Deadlysyns666
12-13-2012, 12:12 AM
Right right, I remember the whole scene with flying as the eagle and everything now. OK, i gotchya. it does seem he is obsessed with Killing Lee but honestly its better then him being obsessed with him killing his Father who has done him no wrong

Rugterwyper32
12-13-2012, 12:16 AM
Connor killed them because they were Templars and Juno's vision showed him what would happen if he let them succeed. And then he got Achilles' explanation of things.
Killing Lee was a mix of duty with something deeply personal in there, and from all I can tell he would have done nothing to his father until they fought and he had no option left. He still hoped for them to come to peace and join forces, as he saw the possibility of an alliance for once.

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-13-2012, 12:34 AM
Thanks for reminding me^ :) and I feel like some of my "non assassin" feelings torwards Connor may go away if we see him in an add on sort of game like ACB.

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-13-2012, 12:34 AM
I didnt mean to say ACB was an add on....more like an extension...I hope you guys know what I meant lol

Deadlysyns666
12-13-2012, 12:36 AM
I didnt mean to say ACB was an add on....more like an extension...I hope you guys know what I meant lol
yeah it was an expansion i don't consider it a different game

Rugterwyper32
12-13-2012, 12:39 AM
Yeah, I get it. I love Connor as a character, but I feel he can grow as an assassin now and now that he's gotten his personal fight out of the way, he can focus on the brotherhood itself. Part of my idea for a reason for him to go to France, to learn from the Brotherhood in a continent where it's very much alive and standing strong and he can learn from them to use that knowledge to rebuild the North American brotherhood.

Deadlysyns666
12-13-2012, 12:40 AM
Yeah, I get it. I love Connor as a character, but I feel he can grow as an assassin now and now that he's gotten his personal fight out of the way, he can focus on the brotherhood itself. Part of my idea for a reason for him to go to France, to learn from the Brotherhood in a continent where it's very much alive and standing strong and he can learn from them to use that knowledge to rebuild the North American brotherhood.
The Brotherhood is changing

LoyalACFan
12-13-2012, 12:54 AM
Connor's not a "true" Assassin because for once, the Brotherhood is depicted as being wrong. The final scenes of the game, in the epilogue, were among my favorite moments in the series; Connor smiles faintly as the Patriots jeer the Redcoats evacuating New York, then the smile disappears as he turns and sees a slave auction in the distance. Then, upon arriving in his village, he finds it deserted with no trace of his people. You can't help but wonder if things might have turned out for the better if people like Johnson and Pitcairn had been allowed to live.

zMrFahrenheit
12-13-2012, 12:59 AM
He is a Assassin, because when Achilles explained him what the Templars and the Assassins want, Connor decided he wanted to hunt the Templars. And he remained faithful to the Order, therefore...

dxsxhxcx
12-13-2012, 01:04 AM
just so we are all clear. Ezio didn't become an assassin till almost the last part of the game in AC2...do you think Ezio just blindly followed Mario's instructions until the day they made a ceremony to make him an Assassin per se without knowing a single thing about his father's work (as an Assassin)?! Mario certainly told Ezio what his father used to do as an Assassin and then Ezio realizing that the source of his and the Assassins problems were the same decided to help his uncle instead of run away with the rest of his family, the ceremony was (and is) a mere formality. IMO Ezio and Connor joined the Order for the same reasons, because they wanted to keep the people they loved safe, the difference is that in AC3 this reason was more evident than in AC2.

austin128
12-13-2012, 02:47 AM
I said this on another thread:
-I think a problem with AssCreeThree's story is that there seems (to me) to be less of a focus on the "secret societies pulling the strings" aspect of it. The moments when the ideologies of the Templars and Assassins are argued are the most intriguing to me. I miss Glyphs!
-Another thing is that Connor just doesn't seem as much of an Assassin as Altair and Ezio. The Assassins from the 1700's don't seem to be as organized about their goals. The Creed doesn't seem to matter to Connor as much, and the Assassins are not so much an organization but more like two dudes, one that's old and frail and another that lets his emotions control him and that does whatever he wants. The emotions thing isn't always bad, as I think the stuff they lead him to in Sequences 9 and on are great. But I wish Connor was balanced out with the type of organized, serious, and determined Brotherhood we're used to seeing.

Edit: And the Assassins you recruit don't seem to know anything about what they're fighting for (if you talk to them in the bars after you recruit them).

TheBearJew32
12-13-2012, 03:03 AM
I said this on another thread:
-I think a problem with AssCreeThree's story is that there seems (to me) to be less of a focus on the "secret societies pulling the strings" aspect of it. The moments when the ideologies of the Templars and Assassins are argued are the most intriguing to me. I miss Glyphs!
-Another thing is that Connor just doesn't seem as much of an Assassin as Altair and Ezio. The Assassins from the 1700's don't seem to be as organized about their goals. The Creed doesn't seem to matter to Connor as much, and the Assassins are not so much an organization but more like two dudes, one that's old and frail and another that lets his emotions control him and that does whatever he wants. The emotions thing isn't always bad, as I think the stuff they lead him to in Sequences 9 and on are great. But I wish Connor was balanced out with the type of organized, serious, and determined Brotherhood we're used to seeing.

Edit: And the Assassins you recruit don't seem to know anything about what they're fighting for (if you talk to them in the bars after you recruit them).

to add to this, this is the way i see it is this- if someone were to ask conner what the creed was or what assassins stood for, he wouldn't know...he would say "where is charles lee!! what would you have me do?" (kidding) However his story isn't over...Is he a true assassins now? No. Will he become one? Probably. They're pulling a star wars.

Assassin_M
12-13-2012, 03:07 AM
I thought Connor followed the creed as much as every protagonist did (A bit more even)

1-Stay your blade from the flesh of an Innocent (The ONLY Assassin protagonist to ever follow that. Ezio in Cappadocia and Altair in Jerusalem)
2-Hide in plain sight (Are you thomas Hickey ?? :|. I admit that was bad xD)
3-Never compromise the Brotherhood (There was no Brotherhood and he managed to hide his allegiance pretty well. also the fact that it is mentioned and asserted numerous times by Achilles "We do not go announcing conspiracies from rooftops")

Connor`s done pretty good in my eyes so far

User1Curtis
12-13-2012, 03:10 AM
Well he just was recruited in to the order till the end

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 03:18 AM
I thought Connor followed the creed as much as every protagonist did (A bit more even)

1-Stay your blade from the flesh of an Innocent (The ONLY Assassin protagonist to ever follow that. Ezio in Cappadocia and Altair in Jerusalem)
2-Hide in plain sight (Are you thomas Hickey ?? :|. I admit that was bad xD)
3-Never compromise the Brotherhood (There was no Brotherhood and he managed to hide his allegiance pretty well. also the fact that it is mentioned and asserted numerous times by Achilles "We do not go announcing conspiracies from rooftops")

Connor`s done pretty well in my eyes so far

LOL yep Ezio didn't do that at all, but what people did Altair kill? If you're talking about the first guy in the very beginning of the game then you're right but you can't really count that since that's when he was a dumbas* haha. Honestly, Ezio was the only one that wasn't a real assassin.

Assassin_M
12-13-2012, 03:22 AM
LOL yep Ezio didn't do that at all, but what people did Altair kill? If you're talking about the first guy in the very beginning of the game then you're right but you can't really count that since that's when he was a dumbas* haha. Honestly, Ezio was the only one that wasn't a real assassin.

If a ******* does something and then changes, you cant just erase it can you ?? It`s still a decision he was consciously aware of and should be held accountable for (Which happened):p

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 03:24 AM
If a ******* does something and then changes, you cant just erase it can you ?? It`s still a decision he was consciously aware of and should be held accountable for (Which happened):p

Well you have to look at it like this, he wasn't an assassin; a good assassin, in the beginning. And it was through the game he learned what he was doing was wrong and became a true assassin. While Ezio never was a real assassin till the end

Rugterwyper32
12-13-2012, 03:40 AM
LOL yep Ezio didn't do that at all, but what people did Altair kill? If you're talking about the first guy in the very beginning of the game then you're right but you can't really count that since that's when he was a dumbas* haha. Honestly, Ezio was the only one that wasn't a real assassin.

Altair caused a lot of deaths of innocents by proxy because of what he did at Solomon's Temple. Admittedly, he got a lot better by the end, but he managed to break all three tenets at once back at the very beginning and we saw that it didn't end up well.
Ezio wasn't much better, and Cappadoccia is a great show of that.
Connor was pretty bad at hiding in plain sight at many points (Hickey and Lee being prime examples) but he managed to overall stick to it pretty well.
So yeah, all of them have their shortcomings as assassins, admittedly. Some have made bigger blunders than others, but hey.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 04:03 AM
Altair caused a lot of deaths of innocents by proxy because of what he did at Solomon's Temple. Admittedly, he got a lot better by the end, but he managed to break all three tenets at once back at the very beginning and we saw that it didn't end up well.
Ezio wasn't much better, and Cappadoccia is a great show of that.
Connor was pretty bad at hiding in plain sight at many points (Hickey and Lee being prime examples) but he managed to overall stick to it pretty well.
So yeah, all of them have their shortcomings as assassins, admittedly. Some have made bigger blunders than others, but hey.


I only remember two deaths and that's it at the temple. If you mean as in he broke all three tenets in the beginning which yea i agree with. But remember that had to happen in the beginning. In the middle and at the end he was a true assassin.

But what you have to see is that from beginning to the end of Ezio's story he wasn't a true assassin, neither was Connor. But Altair was different, in the beginning he wasn't and he was punished. Learned from his mistakes and from the middle to the end of his story he stayed true to the three tenets, thus he is a true assassin. While the other 2 ended their stories with them not being true assassins.

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-13-2012, 04:05 AM
Is there even a clear cut definiton of "true" assassin? I dont think so xD so it all comes to down to how you view the order and Connor's motives and if they fit your vision of a true assassin. I feel like maybe the lack of the Brotherhood existing is probably one of the main reasons I feel Connor feels...different...than the other two in the sense of how devoted he was to the order itself in the end. However this took Ezio several games to accomplish so....who knows? Maybe when Connor returns we will see.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 04:10 AM
Is there even a clear cut definiton of "true" assassin? I dont think so xD so it all comes to down to how you view the order and Connor's motives and if they fit your vision of a true assassin. I feel like maybe the lack of the Brotherhood existing is probably one of the main reasons I feel Connor feels...different...than the other two in the sense of how devoted he was to the order itself in the end. However this took Ezio several games to accomplish so....who knows? Maybe when Connor returns we will see.

In the terms of the game, yes. To be an Hassassin (assassin) you have to follow the three tenets.... uh, you do know that Ezio was a horrible assassin as well, the only good one was Altair after he was punished.

GunnarGunderson
12-13-2012, 04:11 AM
Because he'd rather walk straight up to a target with war paint and his hood down than sneak up behind them and dome them with his tomahawk

austin128
12-13-2012, 04:17 AM
to add to this, this is the way i see it is this- if someone were to ask conner what the creed was or what assassins stood for, he wouldn't know...he would say "where is charles lee!! What would you have me do?" (kidding) however his story isn't over...is he a true assassins now? No. Will he become one? Probably. They're pulling a star wars.

haha!! XD

Edit: Also, I don't see how Ezio wasn't an Assassin. He expanded the Brotherhood immensely, held ceremonies, the whole 9 yards. The innocent guy he killed was an accident; the same can't be said for Altair. I'm not saying Connor wasn't an Assassin, I just don't think he just was as "Assassin-like" lol

Assassin_M
12-13-2012, 04:19 AM
Because he'd rather walk straight up to a target with war paint and his hood down than sneak up behind them and dome them with his tomahawk
He came with his hood up...The guards took it down....It was stupid actually...how they just caught him.

GunnarGunderson
12-13-2012, 04:26 AM
He came with his hood up...The guards took it down....It was stupid actually...how they just caught him.

I was actually talking about the part at the long dock

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-13-2012, 04:29 AM
In the terms of the game, yes. To be an Hassassin (assassin) you have to follow the three tenets.... uh, you do know that Ezio was a horrible assassin as well, the only good one was Altair after he was punished.

Ok but every single one of the three have broken these rules. I feel as if, connor didnt feel like the other assassins because there was no grand order anymore. Now that I think about it, Altair obviously became a Master Assassin, as did Ezio, and since Connor was kind of this lone assassin with no order around him, it made him feel different to ME. But yes, in the strict sense one must obey the creed to be considered an assassin. My apologies. I am not saying Connor needs to become a master assassin to feel like an assasin, I just think that due to the order being absent and possibly even the more obvious personal story throught the entire plot made him feel differernt to myself. Does that make sense? :x

Assassin_M
12-13-2012, 04:30 AM
I was actually talking about the part at the long dock
You did not make that clear enough...My bad

Dagio12
12-13-2012, 04:33 AM
Connor's not a "true" Assassin because for once, the Brotherhood is depicted as being wrong. The final scenes of the game, in the epilogue, were among my favorite moments in the series; Connor smiles faintly as the Patriots jeer the Redcoats evacuating New York, then the smile disappears as he turn s and sees a slave auction in the distance. Then, upon arriving in his village, he finds it deserted with no trace of his people. You can't help but wonder if things might have turned out for the better if people like Johnson and Pitcairn had been allowed to live.

I think this is exactly something they wanted to stress in this entry. Which is why I think the story was really great.

I think Connor was just as much of an assassin as the rest. Just different. They all started for different reasons, yet the end result was the same. I'm glad for this, as the same cookie cutter character would just be boring. I appreciate all of them for different reasons... There good sides, and there shortcomings, its something not often done with main characters.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 04:40 AM
Ok but every single one of the three have broken these rules. I feel as if, connor didnt feel like the other assassins because there was no grand order anymore. Now that I think about it, Altair obviously became a Master Assassin, as did Ezio, and since Connor was kind of this lone assassin with no order around him, it made him feel different to ME. But yes, in the strict sense one must obey the creed to be considered an assassin. My apologies. I am not saying Connor needs to become a master assassin to feel like an assasin, I just think that due to the order being absent and possibly even the more obvious personal story throught the entire plot made him feel differernt to myself. Does that make sense? :x

you can't really say they are all on the same level of breaking the rules, Altair broke the rules in the very beginning of the game. If he didn't break them then the game would have been 100 times easier. It was for story, but even then he learned and ended the game keeping the rules in tact. While the other two broke the rules through out their story, even when they knew better. Ezio became a mentor and still broke the tenets, and Connor... he was trained by a mentor so he should know the rules as well.

Edit: throughout their story meaning at points in their story that they knew better

The biggest difference between Connor and the other assassins is, he's stupid. He's gullible and is too much of a push over. But i see where you're saying he felt different to you, and it makes sense. But in terms of the topic of true assassin Altair is the only one that fits the role.

Connor is again more of a brute with the skills and knowledge of an assassin but doesn't really use his brain :(, when i played as him i felt like i was using a character that had the intelligence of a 14 year old. Meaning he was too innocent and gullible, which was different. Don't get me wrong, i liked Connor :)

TrueAssassin77
12-13-2012, 04:46 AM
You know what pisses me off? When stupid people call connor stupid yet fail to provide evidence of why he's stupid....

vZ POiSoN vZ
12-13-2012, 04:58 AM
you can't really say they are all on the same level of breaking the rules, Altair broke the rules in the very beginning of the game. If he didn't break them then the game would have been 100 times easier. It was for story, but even then he learned and ended the game keeping the rules in tact. While the other two broke the rules through out their story, even when they knew better. Ezio became a mentor and still broke the tenets, and Connor... he was trained by a mentor so he should know the rules as well.

Edit: throughout their story meaning at points in their story that they knew better

The biggest difference between Connor and the other assassins is, he's stupid. He's gullible and is too much of a push over. But i see where you're saying he felt different to you, and it makes sense. But in terms of the topic of true assassin Altair is the only one that fits the role.

Connor is again more of a brute with the skills and knowledge of an assassin but doesn't really use his brain :(, when i played as him i felt like i was using a character that had the intelligence of a 14 year old. Meaning he was too innocent and gullible, which was different. Don't get me wrong, i liked Connor :)
As did I :) I liked his black and white sense of right and wrong. And I wouldnt say he is stupid, more like brash, or hm...I feel like he is very emotional and acts upon emotion very very quickly. He is also fairly young still I beleive so that might contribute to his bold and quick acts on raw emotion. But again, I loved the character and hope to see some more of him. :D

Jexx21
12-13-2012, 05:22 AM
A true Assassin is one who fights for freedoms of mind, speech, and basic human rights on the behalf of others, while being part of a group called the Assassin Brotherhood.

Altair, Ezio, Connor, Aveline, Desmond, Shaun, Rebecca... all are true Assassins.

shobhit7777777
12-13-2012, 05:35 AM
First of all I don't buy into this whole "true" Assassin archetype. There is no ideal type. Assassins thrive on diversity. They recruit everyone. It makes for a stronger organisation if it is built on various beliefs, faiths and cultures. Assassins are a pragmatic, reasonable and forwarded thinking group- their constitution reflects this.

Regarding Connor....I think he is a great Assassin....an yeah..he does seem more straightforward and even naive, but he does display intelligence and ambiguity. He was the only Assassin we know of who actually suggested an Assassin Templar alliance. Where Ezio and Altair saw the Templars from a single perspective Connor was the one who had seen both sides of the coin

And while he is a glorified errand boy thanks to the games narrative structure....I've never seen him readily follow orders...he does what he has to.

I feel that because he joined the Assassins as a means to an end, the end being the welfare of his people...people misconstrue this as not being a true assassin but the fact is that the order IS a means to an end! The goal is free will, preserving life and liberty and promoting the spread of knowledge and enlightenment. And that is EXACTLY what Connor is fighting for...and also why MANY have joined the order.

Think of all your recruits. People of various background united in their fight against a common evil. One may fight against an archaic religious order and one may fight against enslavement of a people...but the end goal is the same

After AC3 I feel that Connor will find his true calling as an Assassin....remember when he sees slave trading first hand?

pirate1802
12-13-2012, 05:47 AM
First of all I don't buy into this whole "true" Assassin archetype. There is no ideal type. Assassins thrive on diversity. They recruit everyone. It makes for a stronger organisation if it is built on various beliefs, faiths and cultures. Assassins are a pragmatic, reasonable and forwarded thinking group- their constitution reflects this.

Regarding Connor....I think he is a great Assassin....an yeah..he does seem more straightforward and even naive, but he does display intelligence and ambiguity. He was the only Assassin we know of who actually suggested an Assassin Templar alliance. Where Ezio and Altair saw the Templars from a single perspective Connor was the one who had seen both sides of the coin

And while he is a glorified errand boy thanks to the games narrative structure....I've never seen him readily follow orders...he does what he has to.

I feel that because he joined the Assassins as a means to an end, the end being the welfare of his people...people misconstrue this as not being a true assassin but the fact is that the order IS a means to an end! The goal is free will, preserving life and liberty and promoting the spread of knowledge and enlightenment. And that is EXACTLY what Connor is fighting for...and also why MANY have joined the order.

Think of all your recruits. People of various background united in their fight against a common evil. One may fight against an archaic religious order and one may fight against enslavement of a people...but the end goal is the same

After AC3 I feel that Connor will find his true calling as an Assassin....remember when he sees slave trading first hand?

Batman is correct again. Him suggesting Assassin Templar alliance would always put him in a special place in my heart. Something Ezio and Altair never thought of. He has seen the other side of the coin. I wonder if it will have a further impact on his future course.

LoyalACFan
12-13-2012, 05:53 AM
Batman is correct again. Him suggesting Assassin Templar alliance would always put him in a special place in my heart. Something Ezio and Altair never thought of. He has seen the other side of the coin. I wonder if it will have a further impact on his future course.

To be fair, the Templars Ezio faced were complete bastards. No room for collaboration there.

pirate1802
12-13-2012, 06:01 AM
To be fair, the Templars Ezio faced were complete bastards. No room for collaboration there.

That's true. Circustances shape a man into what he is. Ezio's worldview was shaped by those bastard templars, Connor's, by the reasonable templars.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 06:16 AM
As did I :) I liked his black and white sense of right and wrong. And I wouldnt say he is stupid, more like brash, or hm...I feel like he is very emotional and acts upon emotion very very quickly. He is also fairly young still I beleive so that might contribute to his bold and quick acts on raw emotion. But again, I loved the character and hope to see some more of him. :D

When i say he's stupid I'm referring to the idea that he is way too gullible and is being used by everyone he talks to (Americans). And his entire fight was for nothing, but yea i'd like to see more.


A true Assassin is one who fights for freedoms of mind, speech, and basic human rights on the behalf of others, while being part of a group called the Assassin Brotherhood.

Altair, Ezio, Connor, Aveline, Desmond, Shaun, Rebecca... all are true Assassins.

No. Connor fought for freedom but then didn't fight for freedom. So he fights to help one race but then doesn't help another race even though he sees all races the same? No, the entire game was pointless, fight for freedom wise. And Ubisoft did that on purpose.

Also we are talking about true assassin based on the tenets, thus your comment on how the main cast are all true assassins are not true.


First of all I don't buy into this whole "true" Assassin archetype. There is no ideal type. Assassins thrive on diversity. They recruit everyone. It makes for a stronger organisation if it is built on various beliefs, faiths and cultures. Assassins are a pragmatic, reasonable and forwarded thinking group- their constitution reflects this.

Regarding Connor....I think he is a great Assassin....an yeah..he does seem more straightforward and even naive, but he does display intelligence and ambiguity. He was the only Assassin we know of who actually suggested an Assassin Templar alliance. Where Ezio and Altair saw the Templars from a single perspective Connor was the one who had seen both sides of the coin

And while he is a glorified errand boy thanks to the games narrative structure....I've never seen him readily follow orders...he does what he has to.

I feel that because he joined the Assassins as a means to an end, the end being the welfare of his people...people misconstrue this as not being a true assassin but the fact is that the order IS a means to an end! The goal is free will, preserving life and liberty and promoting the spread of knowledge and enlightenment. And that is EXACTLY what Connor is fighting for...and also why MANY have joined the order.

Think of all your recruits. People of various background united in their fight against a common evil. One may fight against an archaic religious order and one may fight against enslavement of a people...but the end goal is the same

After AC3 I feel that Connor will find his true calling as an Assassin....remember when he sees slave trading first hand?

They don't recruit everyone, they recruit people that have a view for freedom and justice. case in point why there are two different groups with the same end goal, but that is being nit picky.

Yes Connor is the first we've seen, not the first all together, that said lets work together with the templars. But then again he is the same guy that was used like a handy tissue paper after a 30 minute alone time session of a boy in puberty. Also if you walk up to your target wearing the assassin outfit and symbol and ask "hey are you this person" then you're not that great of an assassin .

Uh he follows orders left and right, "Go after him" "why me?" "Because I said so" "okay"

Yea he sees slave trading first hand and then just walks away, because he realized that everything he has done was for nothing. Idk Connor is not a great assassin, that's just how it is. He's a great character, great fighter, great free-runner, but at the moment. He is not a true assassin, one that follows the original tenets. To be a true assassin you have to follow those three tenets and be a member of the order of course :P

Assassin_M
12-13-2012, 06:44 AM
^This is why I stopped arguing with him...

He`ll just see it how he wants no matter what you tell him...

If he does not like someone then it`s DONE..he doesn't..

Everyone is like that...sure

TOMatXL
12-13-2012, 10:03 AM
The clothes don't make the Man

Depends, in meaning they don't but the AC games have been for a great part about the attires and so they do the man honour. (I doubt people are now walking around in the prison outfit Connor got :) )
When he got access to the gear chest it was time for him to walk that road .. reminds me also how good ACII was cause it was what AC1 needed to be... love the story from that part too.

TOMatXL
12-13-2012, 10:16 AM
The only true assassin was Altair, Ezio wasn't really a assassin more just a brute, just like Connor. How can you say AC3 was a personal story but AC2, ACB, and ACR weren't. AC2 was all about revenge up till the very last moment. Then ACB was all about revenge again. And ACR was mainly about, "Oh i'm falling in love". AC2-R was more personal then AC3.

AC1 was actually a war between assassin and templars, AC2 was a battle between a man looking for revenge and 15 templars, ACB was a fight between a older man wanting revenge and 4 templars, ACR was a scuffle between a really old man wanting to find love and 3 templars. AC3 was a war between a used toy (Connor) and templars.

Yes there's always been a personal story of course and some great ones even. But before AC3 those were how do I say this ... brought to light in an active Assassins framework. You can clearly see the difference with Connor's story where imo they could have easily left 'being an assassin' out of the story.

At some point I thought AC3 was made with connors story and major personal matters, the revolution with all the friends and foes nicely done and at the end they said like "Oh yes, and put these on, cause they expect you to be an assassin".

hadarm18
12-13-2012, 10:30 AM
Connor has become an assassin beacuse Juno told him to do so (not only to save his ppl like many of you are saying)
He believed that he must listen to the "spirit" and follow the sign of the assassin
Little did he know that Juno just manipulated him for a much darker deed

shobhit7777777
12-13-2012, 10:47 AM
They don't recruit everyone, they recruit people that have a view for freedom and justice. case in point why there are two different groups with the same end goal, but that is being nit picky.


Everyone has a view for freedom and justice. Hitler had a dream of a just and peaceful world....except it was run by Casper Van Dien clones. Point is they recruited from various backgrounds....recruits had their own motivations...it wasn't always "4 gret justis!!".

Anything else is flowery BS which dilutes the entire theme of the game


Yes Connor is the first we've seen, not the first all together, that said lets work together with the templars. But then again he is the same guy that was used like a handy tissue paper after a 30 minute alone time session of a boy in puberty. Also if you walk up to your target wearing the assassin outfit and symbol and ask "hey are you this person" then you're not that great of an assassin .

I agree...the narrative structure did paint him as a clueless moron. That doesn't cloud the fact that he did indeed have some great "character" moments which bring to light his duality.

I've said this once and I'll say it again...Connor is potentially a great character....AC3's overall narrative just likes to bury hatchets in his ***.


Uh he follows orders left and right, "Go after him" "why me?" "Because I said so" "okay"

I think you missed the entire point of the exchange


Yea he sees slave trading first hand and then just walks away, because he realized that everything he has done was for nothing. Idk Connor is not a great assassin, that's just how it is. He's a great character, great fighter, great free-runner, but at the moment.

Yup...and thats left open for future instalments. Can you say with certainty that Connor does nothing about it?


He is not a true assassin, one that follows the original tenets. To be a true assassin you have to follow those three tenets and be a member of the order of course :P

And therein lies the whole "Fail" within the "True Assassin" argument.
Original Tenets
They are guidelines born out of common sense....NOT definitive of an Assassin.

Don't kill civies - bad idea since its a PR nightmare and you need to move in their circles
Don't be too loud or draw too much attention - because stealth
Don't be a jackazz and spill secrets about the brotherhood - because "secret society" and also stealth

Its common sense...not a definition of the one true Assassin.

medavroog
12-13-2012, 11:06 AM
Just something, i've been hearing about. just wanna know exactly what explanation there is to support this belief.

BECAUSE...

With the storyline introduced so-far, we see Connor as a person who inherited the Sight from the DNA as well as trained in both the Amerindian and Assassin Ways, and yet, Connor seeks the benefit of His People at all costs whilst a True Assassin seeks the benefit of All People. Despite Connor is trained by a Master Assassin, despite Connor is an expert at parkour, despite Connor is efficent at assassinations...Connor is just using his skills nearly selfish at seeking benefits of His People...in so doing, Connor is no different from the Templars who seek benefits for Their Own. Unlike Ezio Auditore who eventually realised there is a Creed and a Greater Reason, Connor Kenway is just like his father - merely standing on different grounds, but both are selfish and self-centered.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 01:17 PM
^This is why I stopped arguing with him...

He`ll just see it how he wants no matter what you tell him...

If he does not like someone then it`s DONE..he doesn't..

Everyone is like that...sure

-.-


Yes there's always been a personal story of course and some great ones even. But before AC3 those were how do I say this ... brought to light in an active Assassins framework. You can clearly see the difference with Connor's story where imo they could have easily left 'being an assassin' out of the story.

At some point I thought AC3 was made with connors story and major personal matters, the revolution with all the friends and foes nicely done and at the end they said like "Oh yes, and put these on, cause they expect you to be an assassin".

yea, although i do see your point. Connor's personal story was more of the center of the game rather than the war between templars and assassins. Probably because there really wasn't anymore assassins in the Colonies.


Everyone has a view for freedom and justice. Hitler had a dream of a just and peaceful world....except it was run by Casper Van Dien clones. Point is they recruited from various backgrounds....recruits had their own motivations...it wasn't always "4 gret justis!!".

Anything else is flowery BS which dilutes the entire theme of the game



I agree...the narrative structure did paint him as a clueless moron. That doesn't cloud the fact that he did indeed have some great "character" moments which bring to light his duality.

I've said this once and I'll say it again...Connor is potentially a great character....AC3's overall narrative just likes to bury hatchets in his ***.



I think you missed the entire point of the exchange



Yup...and thats left open for future instalments. Can you say with certainty that Connor does nothing about it?



And therein lies the whole "Fail" within the "True Assassin" argument.
Original Tenets
They are guidelines born out of common sense....NOT definitive of an Assassin.

Don't kill civies - bad idea since its a PR nightmare and you need to move in their circles
Don't be too loud or draw too much attention - because stealth
Don't be a jackazz and spill secrets about the brotherhood - because "secret society" and also stealth

Its common sense...not a definition of the one true Assassin.

yea the narrative did, but i agree he was a great character.

The point of the exchange could have been something along the lines of a father telling his son what to do, but it still shows he ends up doing what he's told. Like how Sam Adams tells him we have to dumb the tea. He gets angry for a second but still does what they say. If there was another point to the exchange other than the father son relationship then I missed it.

Well in this installment, he doesn't. I think it may have been a character issue, where he has been fighting for years for freedom and justice. Helping the colonies, only when they win the war he sees that they are no better then the people he was fighting in the war. Slavery, murder, his entire fight was originally to protect his people and in the end he didn't really. (Protect and keep them living where they were). But in the next game it could be possible he'll do something about all of it.

Yea they were born out of common sense, but in the game's perspective those 3 rules were what made you an assassin, breaking them you were either punished, killed, or had to start over as a newbie. If you didn't stay with all three then the leader would have something thing the say and you would be frowned upon by the other assassins like Malak saw Altair. That's why i was saying that a true assassin has to follow those three tenets. In Connor's case, the three tenets weren't really alive for the assassins. He already had 2 of them installed in him, the citizens because he's about justice, and the don't put the brotherhood at harm. That would mean Achilles would be in danger and the townsfolk around him. Stealth wasn't a major part in his story, although i'm only looking at one point in the game. So i should probably count the times he was being stealth, this bad time may have been just a brain fart on him haha.

So maybe i should state my belief differently, Connor and Ezio were assassins, but they weren't ideal assassins like Altair was at the end of his journey. Not sure if that's better.

shobhit7777777
12-13-2012, 01:46 PM
Yea they were born out of common sense, but in the game's perspective those 3 rules were what made you an assassin, breaking them you were either punished, killed, or had to start over as a newbie. If you didn't stay with all three then the leader would have something thing the say and you would be frowned upon by the other assassins like Malak saw Altair. .

And that system, IIRC, was overhauled by Altair. If memory serves wasn't Altair the one who really made the Assassin order a more covert organisation (No more secret mountain strongholds) and employed measures to spread it's influence?

I never saw any major move by Connor or Ezio that majorly compromised the Brotherhood or deliberately killed innocent lives. Stealth is a different matter since it is tied to how people play the game.

Since the idea of an "Ideal" archetype is subjective.....I don't think we'll ever agree on an Ideal archetype (IMO it was ACR Ezio)


So maybe i should state my belief differently, Connor and Ezio were assassins, but they weren't ideal assassins like Altair was at the end of his journey. Not sure if that's better.

Fair enough


The point of the exchange could have been something along the lines of a father telling his son what to do, but it still shows he ends up doing what he's told. Like how Sam Adams tells him we have to dumb the tea. He gets angry for a second but still does what they say. If there was another point to the exchange other than the father son relationship then I missed it

The point of that exchange IMO was to establish a Father-Son dynamic between Haytham and Connor by infusing a bit of humor via patriarchal hierarchy. Its to show that Connor doesn't actually hate his father or sees him as the Templar that he really is. It also establishes that Connor longed for his father hence the obedience...he likes it. Its the closes he'll come to a "family" again. Its a fantastic moment which establishes the two characters in a father-son context that we all can relate to.

Comparing his obedience to apathetic involvement doesn't make sense. The tea dumping was something he just had to get through to obtain his real objective. He never shows any real interest in the politically charged climate...he is urgently on the lookout for the welfare of his people and he is willing to go to great lengths to do so.

ace3001
12-13-2012, 03:28 PM
Only "true Assassin" was Altair.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 05:57 PM
And that system, IIRC, was overhauled by Altair. If memory serves wasn't Altair the one who really made the Assassin order a more covert organisation (No more secret mountain strongholds) and employed measures to spread it's influence?

I never saw any major move by Connor or Ezio that majorly compromised the Brotherhood or deliberately killed innocent lives. Stealth is a different matter since it is tied to how people play the game.

Since the idea of an "Ideal" archetype is subjective.....I don't think we'll ever agree on an Ideal archetype (IMO it was ACR Ezio)



Fair enough



The point of that exchange IMO was to establish a Father-Son dynamic between Haytham and Connor by infusing a bit of humor via patriarchal hierarchy. Its to show that Connor doesn't actually hate his father or sees him as the Templar that he really is. It also establishes that Connor longed for his father hence the obedience...he likes it. Its the closes he'll come to a "family" again. Its a fantastic moment which establishes the two characters in a father-son context that we all can relate to.

Comparing his obedience to apathetic involvement doesn't make sense. The tea dumping was something he just had to get through to obtain his real objective. He never shows any real interest in the politically charged climate...he is urgently on the lookout for the welfare of his people and he is willing to go to great lengths to do so.

Yea you're right, Altair did do that. With Connor when the templars thought that there were no more assassins, he showed the templars that the assassins, though few, still are in the colonies. Exposing not only himself before he attacked (breaking the blade in the crowd tenet) but also revealing that there are other assassins (compromising the brotherhood). Ezio killed 100s and 100s of people in the underground templar city. It was called a templar city but there were innocents there too.

Yea probably not, imo Ezio was great in fine until ACR where he killed those innocents by blowing up the city. i do wish that in the future AC games if they bring back armor. the npcs will pay more attention the more armor you wear.


yea so it was the father-son relationship, cool. As for the him dumbing the tea to obtain his real objective i think that doesn't make sense really. His original objective was to kill William, but then they told him if you dump the tea then you'll be fine. So he did it, and learned later that what he did was for nothing because William came back with the same goal.

He goal kinda changed throughout the story though, or it appeared that way. at first it was "I fight for my people", then "I fight for the Assassins", then "I fight for my people and the assassins" to "I fight for the colonies" etc. Connor is an odd character, innocent, with a child like mind, but still a Great character

pacmanate
12-13-2012, 06:02 PM
Not really. It was just coincidence that the people threatening his village were Templars, case closed.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 06:07 PM
Not really. It was just coincidence that the people threatening his village were Templars, case closed.

don't want to spoil the game for you but that's not what happened, if you haven't finished it then pay close attention to the haytham and Connor scenes.

pacmanate
12-13-2012, 07:08 PM
don't want to spoil the game for you but that's not what happened, if you haven't finished it then pay close attention to the haytham and Connor scenes.

I have finished the game and his motives all the way through was to save his land which coincidentally involved the Templars

dewgel
12-13-2012, 07:38 PM
Funny how you say it's something you've heard about with other people, yet True Assassin is your name.

Anyway, the reason I believe is due to them showing Assassins are not black and white. Connor was a true Assassin, however the Assassin's (and Templars) were not so literal in the near-modern era of AC3.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 07:57 PM
I have finished the game and his motives all the way through was to save his land which coincidentally involved the Templars

THIS POST WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS.

You said that it so happened that the people threatening his land and people were templars, but it actually was the colonist that started it. GW was the cause of Connor's mother dying, the cause of Connor pretty much killing his friend as well, and then they forced his people to leave at the end of it all

pacmanate
12-13-2012, 08:36 PM
THIS POST WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS.

You said that it so happened that the people threatening his land and people were templars, but it actually was the colonist that started it. GW was the cause of Connor's mother dying, the cause of Connor pretty much killing his friend as well, and then they forced his people to leave at the end of it all

It was Lee who ordered the first attack and Washington ordered the Second.

DavisP92
12-13-2012, 08:55 PM
It was Lee who ordered the first attack and Washington ordered the Second.

really, i remember reading in the database that it was Washington that did both. Also Haytham said that it was washington that attacked the village the first time too

UrDeviant1
12-13-2012, 11:55 PM
I'v never heard anyone say that Connor Isn't a real Assassin, only that his Introduction to the Assassin Brotherhood was very poor (which It was). I mean, why not have Achilles sit down with Connor and explain to him the history of the Brotherhood and let us witness It. I don't know If that's down to laziness, stupidity, or lack of time why that cut scene got skipped. I would have loved to hear Achilles telling Connor about Altair and Ezio, the struggles they went through and what they achieved.

Assassin_M
12-14-2012, 12:14 AM
I'v never heard anyone say that Connor Isn't a real Assassin, only that his Introduction to the Assassin Brotherhood was very poor (which It was). I mean, why not have Achilles sit down with Connor and explain to him the history of the Brotherhood and let us witness It. I don't know If that's down to laziness, stupidity, or lack of time why that cut scene got skipped. I would have loved to hear Achilles telling Connor about Altair and Ezio, the struggles they went through and what they achieved.

And risk geniuses like IGN making comments like "Why the **** do I have to hear something for 10 minutes that I already know ??" ?!

william.berry
12-14-2012, 01:04 AM
I think he isn't a proper assassin because he tries to avoid killing Templars when they are on the side of the Americans, and he's quite slash-happy when the Templars are wearing Red coats. So I'd say hes more of an Patriot/idiot than an assassin.

Assassin_M
12-14-2012, 01:31 AM
You wish...No

I think he isn't a proper assassin because he tries to avoid killing Templars when they are on the side of the Americans, and he's quite slash-happy when the Templars are wearing Red coats. So I'd say hes more of an Patriot/idiot than an assassin.

A very Intelligent analysis...Bravo..Completely agree with this..

DavisP92
12-14-2012, 01:32 AM
I'v never heard anyone say that Connor Isn't a real Assassin, only that his Introduction to the Assassin Brotherhood was very poor (which It was). I mean, why not have Achilles sit down with Connor and explain to him the history of the Brotherhood and let us witness It. I don't know If that's down to laziness, stupidity, or lack of time why that cut scene got skipped. I would have loved to hear Achilles telling Connor about Altair and Ezio, the struggles they went through and what they achieved.

I know what you're talking about, I was really looking forward to the part of the game where Connor learns about the Assassins. But they skip the whole learning/teaching experience. That sucked

r4inm4n1991
12-14-2012, 02:32 AM
I think Connor share the same basic idea of the Assassin's, reaching peace and stability. But in the game he actually follows hes ideas only, even when Achilles thinks otherwise. He had no luck with his village, he was naive, to much kind to people, and people(even the ones he killed) kept saying bad things to him about hes decisions, calling him a child and someone who dont understand whats going on, so i understand why he was so enraged and a "loner".

montagemik
12-14-2012, 02:33 AM
Not a real Assassin because ...............He doesn't have the Scar on the lip !! it's mandatory to have a cut lip. :cool:

Jexx21
12-14-2012, 02:45 AM
Lol, all of your arguments are sort of illogical, but whatever.

I fully believe that Connor is a true Assassin.

A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n
12-14-2012, 04:18 AM
It was Lee who ordered the first attack and Washington ordered the Second.

You are wrong. Washington orders both. That's not an opinion. That's a fact. And there's no more need to discuss this fact.

TOMatXL
12-14-2012, 12:25 PM
Not a real Assassin because ...............He doesn't have the Scar on the lip !! it's mandatory to have a cut lip. :cool:

:D it certainly was THE most important thing for Ezio, for otherwise he could have never become the assassin leader ... How did he get it though? Perhaps caught a fishhook while faithfully leaping into the water...

dxsxhxcx
12-14-2012, 12:35 PM
I know what you're talking about, I was really looking forward to the part of the game where Connor learns about the Assassins. But they skip the whole learning/teaching experience. That sucked


if I'm not wrong they said they removed these parts because we already passed through them before, but IMO the part where we learn more about the Order locally and globally is one of the best moments of the game, a shame they thought it was pointless to add that again, I certainly would have loved to know more details about how the Order was during Achilles time.

pacmanate
12-14-2012, 01:30 PM
really, i remember reading in the database that it was Washington that did both. Also Haytham said that it was washington that attacked the village the first time too

When Connor said to Haytham in a cutscene that Charles Lee burned his village and watched his mother die. Then Haythams like "I ordered no such attack blah blah".

ProdiGurl
12-14-2012, 01:36 PM
When Connor said to Haytham in a cutscene that Charles Lee burned his village and watched his mother die. Then Haythams like "I ordered no such attack blah blah".
Very true - and at that point, the story got alot more interesting to me.

TOMatXL
12-14-2012, 01:47 PM
Very true - and at that point, the story got alot more interesting to me.

Okay so I'm not sure if i'm still on track here... So yes Washington ordered the whole shebang but why the h@ll is connor playing petanque with him like best buddies in NY??

william.berry
12-14-2012, 05:07 PM
Okay so I'm not sure if i'm still on track here... So yes Washington ordered the whole shebang but why the h@ll is connor playing petanque with him like best buddies in NY??

This bit of the story really disappointed me actually. Ubisoft missed out on an opportunity to show Connor learning that the Patriots weren't all magical freedom fighters that could do no wrong. Its a really poor bit of story-telling imo, especially since Connor started his whole campaign to kill the British because they were threatening his tribe, it makes no sense for him to not do the same to the patriots after learning about Washingtons plot.

DavisP92
12-14-2012, 05:25 PM
When Connor said to Haytham in a cutscene that Charles Lee burned his village and watched his mother die. Then Haythams like "I ordered no such attack blah blah".

After that Haytham and Connor meet GW, Haytham reads the letter saying that not only is GW attacking Connor's village now but he also did when Connor was a kid. Connor only assumed that it was the templars, but it wasn't. That was shown in the story and in the Database when it says the colonists attacked Connor's village and it was burned down. Then it mentioned also that GW was called the village burner.

TrueAssassin77
12-14-2012, 05:32 PM
The reason why he didn't go ape**** at Washington upon discovering his previous orders was 2 things:

1. To drill in the fact, that this is not a story of revenge. This isn't about killing the man who did him wrong. It's about killing the man that held significant threat to The Assassin Brotherhoods Ideals. G.W. Washington didn't oppose the ideal of freedom and speech, thus the reason for killing him was non-existent. Charles Lee opposed the Assassin Ideals. It was merely adding insult to injury that he also burned down ___________. Connor wasn't driven by revenge(or justice) as so many people believed. He was an almost blind follower of the Assassin Brotherhood ideology which is Freedom/Choice. Freedom in itself, is a completely naive concept. Is Connor not naive? It is also completely naive to think killing a few Templar is what's going to solve the worlds problems... Proof: Connor killed a few Templar, and the problems were not solved. Connor is almost The Assassin brotherhood Ideology given physical form

2. He can't actually kill Washington. It'd be historically inaccurate.



This is also why i think Connor is the Truest Assassin

william.berry
12-14-2012, 05:46 PM
2. He can't actually kill Washington. It'd be historically inaccurate.

And the rest of game is historically accurate? google the boston massacre and compare the historical events to the games' depiction. Also, he wouldn't actually have to kill GW, just either attempt to, or kill some of his lieutenants.

I just think that saying Connor is an assassin is like saying that Jack the Ripper was an assassin because one of the prositutes he killed happened to be a Templar. For both its pretty much coincidental.

TrueAssassin77
12-14-2012, 05:50 PM
And the rest of game is historically accurate? google the boston massacre and compare the historical events to the games' depiction. Also, he wouldn't actually have to kill GW, just either attempt to, or kill some of his lieutenants.

I just think that saying Connor is an assassin is like saying that Jack the Ripper was an assassin because one of the prositutes he killed happened to be a Templar. For both its pretty much coincidental.

you must be one of the blind haters. Blind because you obviously missed the majority of my post.
there is no point in trying to reason with the blind, so this is the first and last post in response to your stupidity, that you will get from me.:)

DavisP92
12-14-2012, 05:58 PM
you must be one of the blind haters. Blind because you obviously missed the majority of my post.
there is no point in trying to reason with the blind, so this is the first and last post in response to your stupidity, that you will get from me.:)

1: that was rude of you to say that to him/her.

2: he tried using reason and logic to argue your point, and did so well.

3: you reply, rather than with reason, with emotion. Horrible for arguments (arguments doesn't have to have a negative connotation to it)

However, I would say that Connor was and is an assassin just not the ideal assassin in my eyes. But this will always be a matter of opinion really

TrueAssassin77
12-14-2012, 06:04 PM
1: that was rude of you to say that to him/her.

2: he tried using reason and logic to argue your point, and did so well.

3: you reply, rather than with reason, with emotion. Horrible for arguments (arguments doesn't have to have a negative connotation to it)

However, I would say that Connor was and is an assassin just not the ideal assassin in my eyes. But this will always be a matter of opinion really

your right, im sorry. It just pissed me off, that he deliberately choose to ignore my stronger point made in the post. And simply attacked what i considered the tack on part of my post. he also didn't even counter it. he just attacked the opinion of the accuracy of the game and somehow used that to support his "Connors not a real assassin" mindset

shobhit7777777
12-14-2012, 06:05 PM
My ideal Assassin is Agent 47 :nonchalance:

40 of those guys would completely dismantle the Assassin's brotherhood...for a price ofcourse.

DavisP92
12-14-2012, 06:14 PM
your right, im sorry. It just pissed me off, that he deliberately choose to ignore my stronger point made in the post. And simply attacked what i considered the tack on part of my post. he also didn't even counter it. he just attacked the opinion of the accuracy of the game and somehow used that to support his "Connors not a real assassin" mindset

i understand that it can be frustrating but don't let it effect you and cause problems, just brush it off :). I'll reply to the other point that he didn't then.

I'm sorry, but some of what you said in the first point isn't true. Connor was more about justice, you said he wasn't. Connor wasn't a blind follower of the Assassins because some of his beliefs didn't match with them. He wanted to work with the templars, while Achilles said no. He didn't want to kill if he didn't have to, when Achilles said just kill. Also Connor wanted to kill the templars before even knowing that they were templars, it wasn't really about revenge but justice. He knew they were bad before he met the assassins and wanted to stop them from hurting others.

Also the templars didn't burn down his village and the guy that keeps on saying they did is wrong. I'm reading the database now and it says, "Well - that makes slightly more sens. It seems the Templars weren't behind the burning of Connor's village. You can thank George Washington for that. I'm guessing that part of Washington's military career didn't make it into your history books. But then, so many things didn't."

Proof that the Templars didn't burn down the village.

edit: I'm honestly surprised that people would argue against me on this point, it's told in the story and in the database. How can that be missed??