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View Full Version : Chase Charles Lee "How did something this awful wind up in AC3?"



pacmanate
12-11-2012, 08:11 PM
http://kotaku.com/5967220/assassins-creed-iiis-final-chase-sequence-was-the-worst-thing-i-played-all-year?utm_campaign=Socialflow_Kotaku_Twitter&utm_source=Kotaku_Twitter&utm_medium=Socialflow

^^ read

pirate1802
12-11-2012, 08:18 PM
I didn't have any problem with that chase.. But I heard it was a pain in the arse pre-patch.

Vex_Assassin
12-11-2012, 08:20 PM
I agree with him on the fact that this mission could've been done better, but dying 28 times? Keeping on trying to run through fire? He must be a total idiot.

shobhit7777777
12-11-2012, 08:22 PM
Aaaahh....AC3 Bane...we meet again.

That mission is an excellent example of everything that is wrong with the franchise. Someone in the design dept. at the AC3 studio needs to wake the **** up....

Deadlysyns666
12-11-2012, 08:23 PM
Soo much fire how did it start and why not get some water from the ocean

pacmanate
12-11-2012, 08:24 PM
Haha, it had the most stupid 100% sync things aswell. Same with the one where you have to tackle the guard that runs away by using an air tackle.

HisSpiritLives
12-11-2012, 08:25 PM
Shame on Ubisoft that they didnt optimaze game for IDIOTS. lol

Norcent31
12-11-2012, 08:26 PM
After watching that video, I just kept thinking...

Vaas from Far Cry 3:
"Have I told you about the definition of insanity?, doing the same thing over, over, over again, expecting a different result"

He kept going left.

pacmanate
12-11-2012, 08:28 PM
After watching that video, I just kept thinking...

Vaas from Far Cry 3:
"Have I told you about the definition of insanity?, doing the same thing over, over, over again, expecting a different result"

He kept going left.

Granted 28 times is excessive but this mission was stupid haha.

Grandmaster_Z
12-11-2012, 08:34 PM
chase seen was easy if youre not worried about full sync. i can understand if youre trying to do 100% sync, i tried many times but couldnt do it until the patch.

pirate1802
12-11-2012, 08:38 PM
Good thing then that I played it after the patch. I was able to full sync in my 3rd try.. :D

Free_Hidings
12-11-2012, 08:39 PM
Sounds to me like this guy wanted everything spoon fed to him and yet complained that he was basically in an interactive cutscene... In other words he appears to be something of an idiot.

The optional objectives were great on this, had a heap of fun with this mission. I failed multiple times (not nearly 28, wtf) but I really enjoyed it, and strangely I didn't have any trouble with the ship part.

pirate1802
12-11-2012, 08:39 PM
Soo much fire how did it start and why not get some water from the ocean

As you go into the ship you hear someone screaming "Don't go in there there has been an accident!"

Deadlysyns666
12-11-2012, 08:40 PM
As you go into the ship you hear someone screaming "Don't go in there there has been an accident!" and no one trys to put it out plus freaking Lee runs fast for an old man considering he outruns connor

xboxauditore
12-11-2012, 08:42 PM
I agree with everything, this mission had me screaming in Satanic tongues

pirate1802
12-11-2012, 08:47 PM
and no one trys to put it out plus freaking Lee runs fast for an old man considering he outruns connor

There has just* been an accident, I forgot to put that in. Maybe they were about to help.. who knows.

Rugterwyper32
12-11-2012, 08:49 PM
I managed to beat this mission on my second try pre-patch and it took me 6 times to get full sync post-patch. Honestly, I don't get what people found so hard about this. Figure out a route, get it done. I will admit it was annoying to get full sync, but still, it was never too bad.
The comments there are just sad, really. If people found this frustrating I'd love for them to go back to some old NES/SNES/Genesis games. Maybe then they'd learn.

Ancient Attero
12-11-2012, 08:50 PM
I hate Kotaku. Its obvious that he is challenged enough that he doesn't know the right path, so instead of figuring it out, he tries the same thing over and over blaming the Devs when it doesn't work. Let alone that he ignores the segway context action of cutting the rope to quickly get up the boat.

Or that Charles Lee is the one who fires at the barrel.

BK-110
12-11-2012, 09:26 PM
It took me quite a while to figure it out (pre-patch), but when I did, it was actually easy enough. The solution was really simple too, I just didn't see it...

who-can-i-be
12-11-2012, 09:45 PM
I managed to beat this mission on my second try pre-patch and it took me 6 times to get full sync post-patch. Honestly, I don't get what people found so hard about this. Figure out a route, get it done. I will admit it was annoying to get full sync, but still, it was never too bad.
The comments there are just sad, really. If people found this frustrating I'd love for them to go back to some old NES/SNES/Genesis games. Maybe then they'd learn.

This.

pacmanate
12-11-2012, 09:51 PM
Wait, what was patched?

UrDeviant1
12-11-2012, 10:00 PM
He should put going left 28! times down to his own stupidity. As for the rest, yeah It was kinds difficult, but there Is a way to do It. Avoid the barrels by staying left, cutting corners etc. And worse piece of gameplay he'd played all year? Sounds like he's still butthurt from the stupid amount of failures HE MADE.

Rugterwyper32
12-11-2012, 10:12 PM
Wait, what was patched?

The chase was made easier with the Thanksgiving patch. Lee doesn't seem to have the headstart he had prior to the patch, as far as I've noticed. Not sure if they changed anything else.

xboxauditore
12-11-2012, 10:12 PM
That part where the door frame collapses and you jump through the frame next to it always got me, Never noticed it.

rileypoole1234
12-11-2012, 10:18 PM
I beat the chase easily...

pacmanate
12-11-2012, 10:47 PM
I beat the chase easily...

The chase was easy, the 100% wasnt

kuled2012
12-11-2012, 10:52 PM
Jesus, it wasn't so difficult..even without the patch. This is like the Hickey mission, it's not that hard people..just think before just mindlessly running through like a mad man if you're so desperate for full sync. If you keep on doing the same thing over and over again why do you think there will be different results? I got full sync after about my 3rd attempt.

zMrFahrenheit
12-11-2012, 10:55 PM
One mission that has bugged me is one where you have to destroy the powder reserves in some fragates in order to achieve full sync, but my Achilla was fully upgraded, therefore, when I "ran over" the boat to show the powder reservation, it kept destroying the ship. I started yelling and yelling, and the neighbor called to see if was everything alright...

austin128
12-11-2012, 10:58 PM
All you had to do was jump right before you reached a group of guards and you would jump right past them.

NyxCrab
12-11-2012, 11:08 PM
This mission was annoying, but dying 30 times? And he never figured out what to do until after that... Sounds like he is more at fault here than Ubisoft.

Aphex_Tim
12-11-2012, 11:10 PM
What he's doing is basically like running into a wall 28 times and then complain that he can't run through it.

D.I.D.
12-11-2012, 11:12 PM
Sounds to me like this guy wanted everything spoon fed to him and yet complained that he was basically in an interactive cutscene... In other words he appears to be something of an idiot.

The optional objectives were great on this, had a heap of fun with this mission. I failed multiple times (not nearly 28, wtf) but I really enjoyed it, and strangely I didn't have any trouble with the ship part.

Seriously? You had a heap of fun? This was good mission design to you? And do you seriously think that writer is an idiot? Read more of his articles.

This is part of the problem with AC3, I think. It has so few missions that are nicely laid out that it lulls people into thinking bad things are decent.

It's overall a pretty rewarding title and I think it was worth the money I paid (especially since I got 30% off the PC price, thanks to GMG), but it boggles my mind to see the things people will tell themselves about the writing or the design being good. The world is beautifully built, absolutely, and there are many fantastic touches and details, but it is a long way from perfect.

D.I.D.
12-11-2012, 11:14 PM
What he's doing is basically like running into a wall 28 times and then complain that he can't run through it.

OK, but people are missing the point if they keep focusing on that one thing to the exclusion of all the other points he's making.

Aphex_Tim
12-11-2012, 11:23 PM
OK, but people are missing the point if they keep focusing on that one thing to the exclusion of all the other points he's making.

Still, this mission can only be frustrating if you're going for full sync. Otherwise it's pretty easy.
The obstacles at the start are avoidable and at the burning boat part i can understand jumping into the wrong direction two or three times but 28 times?
Isn't is pretty obvious after three tries that he's not going in the right direction? And instead of looking for other options he just looks for a guide online, which sounds pretty hypocritical to me seeing as elsewhere in the article he's complaining about playing through a "scripted cutscene".
With this article it's almost like he's looking for stuff to complain about. "Why did the barrels explode?", to me it was pretty obvious that Lee shot them. You can even see it in the .gif he included.

InfectedNation
12-11-2012, 11:28 PM
God this writer is pathetic.... He was clearly just playing dumb to get more views on his article or he actually is dumb. The 100% sync isn't supposed to be obtainable by everyone on their first playthrough, and the chase is so easy if you use your brain to avoid things - eg: going to the lower platform to evade the barrel.

CalgaryJay
12-11-2012, 11:28 PM
Maybe I just got lucky, but I don't even have the patch and I got it by my 3rd try. Just go around to the boat during the chase.

joaomuas
12-11-2012, 11:33 PM
I deleted my original reply because I was afraid they'd ban me. So let's make this simple:

1. Lee shoots the barrels with the gun. Clearly. You can dodge the explosion without slowing down.

2. The guys are really easy to get past through. Pretty obvious, actually.

3. Games are supposed to challenge you with obstacles, not just give it all to you.

4. The optional objectives are, of course, optional, and are just supposed to add some very needed level of difficulty to the game.

5. The blocked pathway is in every action movie, video game and book. It doesn't make it annoying just because of that. It's there to complicate things, stopping it from being a repetitive chase.

6. Just because a roof collapses again it doesn't mean you get past it the same way. Otherwise, there's no variety.

The only thing I agree with you in is the fact that Lee is standing there waiting for you, and I believe that is getting patched. That makes it 6-1. The rest is there to make you think and make the chase harder, otherwise it's just another first-try easy chase. But this is the last one! It has to be challenging! DUDE, SERIOUSLY?

D.I.D.
12-11-2012, 11:35 PM
Still, this mission can only be frustrating if you're going for full sync. Otherwise it's pretty easy.
The obstacles at the start are avoidable and at the burning boat part i can understand jumping into the wrong direction two or three times but 28 times?
Isn't is pretty obvious after three tries that he's not going in the right direction? And instead of looking for other options he just looks for a guide online, which sounds pretty hypocritical to me seeing as elsewhere in the article he's complaining about playing through a "scripted cutscene".
With this article it's almost like he's looking for stuff to complain about. "Why did the barrels explode?", to me it was pretty obvious that Lee shot them. You can even see it in the .gif he included.

Well I can't see Lee's shot in his gif, so maybe that's down to draw distance on whatever system he played it on.

I think the wider point is whether this was a rewarding, well-designed final stage in a long search for this guy, and it's much easier to argue that it wasn't than it is to say it was.

If you think of a well designed game, its final stage is going to involve some really fun examples of the best of the gameplay you've experienced up to that point. It's a test of how well you learned, and ideally it's going to give you some variety in your approach. It's not just going to throw crap in your way in a narrow corridor. This wasn't even up to the standards of side mission chases in Brotherhood, the last AC game to really care about design layout.

NekoKera
12-11-2012, 11:40 PM
I managed to get full sync pre-patch but it took me a good 10 or so times to figure out the predetermined path of least resistance. I found that when the chase starts to immediately go left and head for the stairs while staying close the wall. After a few seconds of running an explosion should occur throwing a person over the wall. Keep running until you get to the next road block of guards then immediately go right up some barrels. Once over the barrels, immediately turn back left onto the road. For the next road block you need to hop on a short pile of barrels on the left then jump over the guards heads. The next road block is easily avoidable by crossing the gap of water from jumping off the bridge to the walkway where Lee is getting away. After that it is a straight shot towards the burning structure. Getting through the fire is moderately easy if you follow the predetermined path. There is only one part that is tricky and that is when Lee escapes through a doorway and the doorway collapses in-front of Connor. There you will need to essentially jump through a small gap in the wood that is surrounded by fire. After that it should be smooth sailing.

I also tried reloading this specific mission post-patch to see if it was any easier and to my surprise I managed to full-sync in just one try, so apparently the difficulty was toned a bit down, but then again I did come across a strange bug where when I got to the burning structure cutscene, Lee decided to stop for no reason. I though I should try to take the opportunity to just assassinate him but Connor couldn't target or shoot him, he just stood there and stared at Connor. If I moved his head would follow me but he seemed stuck. What I did was continued to go up the structure without chasing Lee and when I arrived at the top the cutscene kicked in and everything continued. But as far as the chase sequence through the crowd, had no issues with post-patch.

Wh00ster
12-11-2012, 11:48 PM
I don't know about pre-patch, but I didn't have much issue with it. Went through the first time and got blown up by barrels...okay, redid it and just waiting for the barrels to explode before running through, then made logical choices about taking down guards, avoiding guards, etc, got to burning boat no problem. I got lost the next couple times since I couldn't find where to go, eventually figured out I should climb up wood to the right of me, and the rest of the chase was straightforward. I have no idea how someone can be as bad as Kirk in the game.

My only complaint is that the full sync should reward skilled players or lateral thinking, instead of just trial and error, since something like the barrel exploding is hard to see coming and from what the game has "taught" you previously, you have no way of seeing that coming. However that requires a lot more level design foresight, but that's a whole other issue.

edit: Also complaining about a pre-patch version of a game is pretty dumb unless you had no knowledge of a patch being out. It's like if I made a thread today complaining about Fallout 3 crashing on me all the time.

egriffin09
12-11-2012, 11:54 PM
It's amazing how much more fun AC3 is if you do missions not worrying about full sync. I still play as stealthy as I possible but I never really worry about full sync. It's not worth it, all you get is an achievement/trophy, a outfit, and raging on some missions trying to get 100% sync.

Turul.
12-12-2012, 12:00 AM
i had to same ****ing problems...

this mission was horrible

montagemik
12-12-2012, 12:03 AM
Pre-patch Full sync was a challenge on the Lee mission - people complained = So they nerfed the mission :nonchalance: (5-10 attempts is hardly impossible is it ? )

Now it's just a chase - in it's limited linear path . with a route everybody's memorised a 100 times. :nonchalance:

Which was more Fun ????

Wh00ster
12-12-2012, 12:05 AM
Jesus, it wasn't so difficult..even without the patch. This is like the Hickey mission, it's not that hard people..just think before just mindlessly running through like a mad man if you're so desperate for full sync. If you keep on doing the same thing over and over again why do you think there will be different results? I got full sync after about my 3rd attempt.

The Hickey chase (or 100%ing it) was weird for me because my timing didn't work for some reason with that part of the game. I would run up to a soldier and hit X to do a high profile assassination, but nothing would happen, after like 10 tries. So I just assumed that I couldn't do assassinations and had to enter combat which made it really difficult. BUT, if I held down RT and X and ran up to them then it would work fine and 100%ing it was easy :/. I was just used to the way it worked in the old games and it screwed me over. Small things like that....I don't know if that's my stupidity or the dev's fault.

Wh00ster
12-12-2012, 12:08 AM
Pre-patch Full sync was a challenge on the Lee mission - people complained = So they nerfed the mission :nonchalance: (5-10 attempts is hardly impossible is it ? )

Now it's just a chase - in it's limited linear path . with a route everybody's memorised a 100 times. :nonchalance:

Which was more Fun ????

Remember this:
http://kotaku.com/5847009/assassins-creed-needs-to-be-more-difficult
http://www.toptiertactics.com/12347/assassins-creed-3-needs-to-be-harder/

lol I feel for the devs
tho to be fair the level design could be better beyond just trial&error, yes

ACfan443
12-12-2012, 12:49 AM
Clicked on the article and read the author's name to find it was Kirk Hamilton - the writer at kotaku who loves to complain about nearly everything to do with AC3. The mission was stupid, but it's not as difficult as he makes it out to be. Over 28 failed attempts? Pfft..you just suck.

twenty_glyphs
12-12-2012, 01:11 AM
The frustrating thing about this mission and the Hickey chase in AC3 is not that they are hard, it's that the game gives you no real way to figure out the solution for yourself. There are no clever clues or established mechanics from games at large or within AC3 itself that hint at a solution. Then the game gives your chase target a head start and you get no time or opportunity to stop and try to plan a route. It just forces you to start running all-out immediately after a cutscene just to avoid desyncing and failing. This isn't about the lack of handholding, it's about the fact that the game often gives you no clue what it wants you to do during these linear missions, and it doesn't give you time to figure it out because of the chase failing so quickly.

The Charles Lee mission I managed to do on my first try because by that point I no longer cared about trying things on my own and just read the guide for advice. I've never gone back to replay it to try for 100% sync because it's just so frustrating. The Hickey chase was a similar exercise in futility for me though, and the turning point of the game. I never had time to figure out Hickey was running in circles because I was struggling in frustration just to keep up with him. I naturally kept trying to get onto the roofs to cut him off better, but that always resulted in a desync because he'd get too far away. The only reason I finished the Hickey mission with full sync was because he glitched and stopped running completely when he ran into a wagon. That was the turning point of the game where I realized how poorly designed and arbitrary its missions were.

And as a last mission, the Charles Lee chase is also horrible. The last mission in a game should ideally integrate gameplay aspects from your entire experience and force you to demonstrate your mastery of them to some degree. Assassin's Creed has never done this well, but AC3 was the absolute worst. Assassin's Creed 1 was criticized for having fun stealth gameplay and then throwing it all away for the last hour to force you to fight tons of soldiers on the way to a final boss fight, which I agree with. AC2's ending could have used more stealth, but I think it was the best ending mission of the series because it was fun to make your way to the Sistine Chapel along the walls of the city and then attempt to assassinate the final boss. The actual fight with Rodrigo was pretty unsatisfying. I was always irritated that the ending to Brotherhood didn't let you play stealthy. It really gives you no way to make it through the level without alerting tons of guards that you then have to fight off to progress to the next section. I always felt like that sequence would have been so epic if it would have let you manage to sneak through the battle and then climb around the castle and plan an actual assassination of Cesare. But it stands much higher than AC3's ending, which throws away any pretense of combat, social stealth and assassination in general to force you through a linear chase sequence that was bad enough in Sequence 8. Even Revelations' ending is just as bad from a gameplay standpoint, sending you into a wagon chase with Ezio hang-gliding behind. At least it was somewhat entertaining for me and not completely frustrating like AC3's end.

D.I.D.
12-12-2012, 01:38 AM
Clicked on the article and read the author's name to find it was Kirk Hamilton - the writer at kotaku who loves to complain about nearly everything to do with AC3. The mission was stupid, but it's not as difficult as he makes it out to be. Over 28 failed attempts? Pfft..you just suck.

Well that's just another "hater" fantasy. He's not on a vendetta against the game. Here are some of the Kirk Hamilton pieces which are positive about AC3:

http://kotaku.com/5965952/god-help-me-i-love-assassins-creed-iiis-lockpicking-minigame

http://kotaku.com/5965321/why-ubisofts-two-big-holiday-games-are-better-on-pc-hint-its-not-uplay

http://kotaku.com/5965305/a-more-immersive-way-to-run-around-assassins-creed-iii

So yes, he writes pieces about his gripes (http://kotaku.com/5958941/how-has-assassins-creed-iii-disappointed-me-let-me-count-the-ways); it's his job to make sure he lays out the problems, but he's not blindly spitting venom at all things AC.

zMrFahrenheit
12-12-2012, 01:46 AM
Actually, the guy started complaining and complaining, but, if he was so frustrated as he was, what he could do was simply go to www.youtube.com and see Assassins Creed 3 Chasing Lee Walkthrough and TA-DA! I actually managed to do the mission alone, but the point is : If you get so frustrated in a mission, why don't you simply go to youtube? Because it wasn't you who played? But that remembers me, as someone in this forum once said, what Vaas ( awesome character btw, my favorite from FC3 ) said "Insanity is doing the exact same fuc**** thing over and over again, waiting, for shi* to change"
Therefore, go online, don't keep doing the exact same thing.

Gi1t
12-12-2012, 02:34 AM
The frustrating thing about this mission and the Hickey chase in AC3 is not that they are hard, it's that the game gives you no real way to figure out the solution for yourself. There are no clever clues or established mechanics from games at large or within AC3 itself that hint at a solution. Then the game gives your chase target a head start and you get no time or opportunity to stop and try to plan a route. It just forces you to start running all-out immediately after a cutscene just to avoid desyncing and failing. This isn't about the lack of handholding, it's about the fact that the game often gives you no clue what it wants you to do during these linear missions, and it doesn't give you time to figure it out because of the chase failing so quickly.

The Charles Lee mission I managed to do on my first try because by that point I no longer cared about trying things on my own and just read the guide for advice. I've never gone back to replay it to try for 100% sync because it's just so frustrating. The Hickey chase was a similar exercise in futility for me though, and the turning point of the game. I never had time to figure out Hickey was running in circles because I was struggling in frustration just to keep up with him. I naturally kept trying to get onto the roofs to cut him off better, but that always resulted in a desync because he'd get too far away. The only reason I finished the Hickey mission with full sync was because he glitched and stopped running completely when he ran into a wagon. That was the turning point of the game where I realized how poorly designed and arbitrary its missions were.

And as a last mission, the Charles Lee chase is also horrible. The last mission in a game should ideally integrate gameplay aspects from your entire experience and force you to demonstrate your mastery of them to some degree. Assassin's Creed has never done this well, but AC3 was the absolute worst. Assassin's Creed 1 was criticized for having fun stealth gameplay and then throwing it all away for the last hour to force you to fight tons of soldiers on the way to a final boss fight, which I agree with. AC2's ending could have used more stealth, but I think it was the best ending mission of the series because it was fun to make your way to the Sistine Chapel along the walls of the city and then attempt to assassinate the final boss. The actual fight with Rodrigo was pretty unsatisfying. I was always irritated that the ending to Brotherhood didn't let you play stealthy. It really gives you no way to make it through the level without alerting tons of guards that you then have to fight off to progress to the next section. I always felt like that sequence would have been so epic if it would have let you manage to sneak through the battle and then climb around the castle and plan an actual assassination of Cesare. But it stands much higher than AC3's ending, which throws away any pretense of combat, social stealth and assassination in general to force you through a linear chase sequence that was bad enough in Sequence 8. Even Revelations' ending is just as bad from a gameplay standpoint, sending you into a wagon chase with Ezio hang-gliding behind. At least it was somewhat entertaining for me and not completely frustrating like AC3's end.

I've had occasional experiences like this too. It's not really a massive problem so much as it is that one slightly counterintuitive thing the designers expected the player to do that takes forever to figure out simply becuase that's not what you thought you were supposed to do. It's especially common in sequences where you're supposed to be in a hurry. If something doesn't catch the player's attention, they'll take the initiative and start looking for their own solutions immediately. There's also the question of whether or not it's a glitch. Sometimes games really don't work, and for that reason, people might actually try the same thing over just to see if it was a glitch the previous time. I'd say things like this are pretty minor errors despite how frustrating they can be at the time, but they're definitely mistakes, not just someting you can blame entirely on the player. Plenty of other games out there have sequences that don't have problems like this in them. Anyone could end up in the frustrated group simply by thinking they were supposed to do something else. It doesn't matter if you're smart or not, all you have to do is get the wrong idea into your head (or not have enough time to give it any thought before the game starts you over) and suddenly the solution is invisible.

I do agree on the endings, though I have to say I did find the last fight in AC2 to be fairly satisfying just because it's literally a fist fight with the Pope, and I found that hilarious. :)

C.U.B.A.I.N.E.
12-12-2012, 02:42 AM
Dying 28 times? Seriously? This mission is really easy... You just have to avoid the barrels and throw two smokebombs at the guards.

SixKeys
12-12-2012, 04:04 AM
Freaking hated this chase. His video of failing multiple times is pretty much my exact experience. I finally looked up what I had to do on YouTube and raged. The problem is that in ANY OTHER MISSION the game would consider the collapsed roof as an insurmountable object and approaching it would only make Connor lay his hands flat against it. I've come to recognize these types of invisible walls over 5 games in the series. Even if it looks like a normal person could probably squeeze through somewhere, the game acts like it's impossible, so you're supposed to find another route. It's only in THIS particular mission that they decided to deviate from the norm and allow the player to climb through a wall that normally looks like an unclimbable object. That's the infuriating part. It doesn't help that one of the objectives is "Don't take any fire damage", so when you're expected to JUMP THROUGH A BURNING WALL, is it any wonder most players would think that sounds like a stupid move?

Ugh. Bad mission design at its finest.

Assassin_M
12-12-2012, 04:12 AM
I did it after the first try...fully synced it on my second try..

The Chase was Awesome, but it needed more...more elements I mean. The final mission should`v included more. Like Rodrigo`s final fight in AC II...

Armed fight and then an Unarmed fight. or Almualim. Fight against guards, fight against illusions, fight against Almualims, fights against Almualim. More than just 1 dimension, but AC III... A chase and then a cutscene to end it...Wow..

It should`v been, Armed battle, Lee escapes, chase, unarmed combat one on one, Assassination and then scene...

No problem with the chase. That whole mission just needed more Ideas and depth

Rugterwyper32
12-12-2012, 04:26 AM
I did it after the first try...fully synced it on my second try..

The Chase was Awesome, but it needed more...more elements I mean. The final mission should`v included more. Like Rodrigo`s final fight in AC II...

Armed fight and then an Unarmed fight. or Almualim. Fight against guards, fight against illusions, fight against Almualims, fights against Almualim. More than just 1 dimension, but AC III... A chase and then a cutscene to end it...Wow..

It should`v been, Armed battle, Lee escapes, chase, unarmed combat one on one, Assassination and then scene...

No problem with the chase. That whole mission just needed more Ideas and depth

I can agree with that. Personally, my two problems with the chase were a. the location and b. the lack of more depth. I honestly was imagining running through the piers of Philadelphia, chasing after Charles Lee, and getting into a huge fight with thugs of his. He'd send tougher and tougher soldiers every time, and he'd be more scared as Connor went through them and realized he didn't stand a chance. Basically, chase-fight-chase-fight-chase, and I'd have ended it with a stealth section, approaching Charles Lee's final refuge which could be some sort of warehouse, and as Connor approaches Lee through a hatch above, the frail roof breaks, he falls, gets impaled and the last few scenes happen the same, but in different scenery.
In my eyes, that would have been just perfect.

Rogue-Eaglet
12-12-2012, 05:55 AM
Lol, after trying the exact same path thrice and seeing it fail every time, you should have the reflex of plotting a different course. I had issues passing that first duo of guards after the barrel, because I kept trying to leap to the right ontop the crates and that always ended up costing me distance. Figured I'd try that lower platform instead and bingo, I had no problem keeping the 50m distance objective. As for the boat, dude I got that on the second try and that's only because I was an idiot and ran smack into the flames while boarding the boat. And I'm positive on the boat, if you're good enough with the free-running mechanics, you have time to see whether there's a clearing in the debris or if you need to look for a round-about.

Still, I'll admit that chase was rather dull for a 'final' mission. I seriously was expecting more than a tag-game like chase through the bloody docks. Something like Rugterwyper32 mentioned would have been a neat concept, although I like the cinematic in the Frontier's tavern.

LoyalACFan
12-12-2012, 07:53 AM
People are blowing this way out of proportion... Yeah, that one burning wall thing was annoying, but did it really take you THAT long to see where you were supposed to go?

Ez_187
12-12-2012, 10:38 AM
I feel like the only one who had no problems with this mission... especially getting full sync they pretty much come hand in hand...

pirate1802
12-12-2012, 10:50 AM
I feel like the only one who had no problems with this mission... especially getting full sync they pretty much come hand in hand...

Me neither. But then I played post-patch. I got full-sync in y third try, it was pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

Death_Angel733
12-12-2012, 02:34 PM
I 100% sync this pre-patch. The technique to avoid being pushed down by the guards is to use smoke bombs. They're annoying since they block your way, but a well timed smoke bomb will get you done. Took me 4 tries and I felt like throwing my controller on the 3rd atttempt. Well the fire sequence, it took me 2 tries. Just learn to observee, don't just rush in.

The guy on the blog sucks anyway.

TreFacTor
12-12-2012, 05:10 PM
There are a number of scenes that had me shaking my head in disbelief in the game. This and the tackle from above chase were just a few. The game breaks to many segments up into small tasks, the chases being some of the worst. Your fleeing subject almost always had an insurmountable head start leading to an almost instant desync if you missed one step. In one instance, i could be within reach of the tackle animation only to not be able to do it no matter how many times I hit the button. This was because of the control changes though. For a game that boasted making all of these advancements, it really seemed to backfire. The fighting is slow, sluggish, boring and repetitive (probably because a UFC fighter did the fight scenes ..might as well had gone WWF for that matter). For a game with such potential it really missed the mark in a lot of ways. It was a good game, and the time frame interesting if not under developed. Sadly I think this is the last we'll see of Connor. I don't see how they can milk 2 or 3 more games out of the character like they did with Ezio.

MT4K
12-12-2012, 05:20 PM
I don't understand the complaints regarding the "tackle from above" thing... You follow the guy and basically run into the opportunity to do it by taking the ramp right on a bend. Am i missing something? Bcause to me it seemed literally right in my face the path to take for it :-/

As for the Charle's Lee chase.. I can't say much since i only played Post-Patch. But it seemed easy enough to do every part of it.

AdrianJacek
12-12-2012, 05:21 PM
You know, they wanted to make them more challenging. Less... like this. Does anyone remember that? Yeah, that was pathetic. I actailly really enjoy chases in AC3. I just had to... get better. :P

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiZ8UZtJnXQ&t=3m4s

Rugterwyper32
12-12-2012, 05:30 PM
^ I actually spent more time with that chase than any chase in this game, but for very different reasons. I got AC2 for PC (since I had just gotten a new laptop that could run stuff and the PC version was cheaper than the Xbox360 version when I got it, nevermind the time it takes to get from the US to Guatemala and the shipping and taxes and all that) and my mouse decided to start having some issues. I ended up having to try playing with my keyboard alone, and that drove me nuts.

ACfan443
12-12-2012, 06:26 PM
Well that's just another "hater" fantasy. He's not on a vendetta against the game. Here are some of the Kirk Hamilton pieces which are positive about AC3:

http://kotaku.com/5965952/god-help-me-i-love-assassins-creed-iiis-lockpicking-minigame

http://kotaku.com/5965321/why-ubisofts-two-big-holiday-games-are-better-on-pc-hint-its-not-uplay

http://kotaku.com/5965305/a-more-immersive-way-to-run-around-assassins-creed-iii

So yes, he writes pieces about his gripes (http://kotaku.com/5958941/how-has-assassins-creed-iii-disappointed-me-let-me-count-the-ways); it's his job to make sure he lays out the problems, but he's not blindly spitting venom at all things AC.

The first one is just about lock picking - hardly complimenting the game
The second one has nothing to do with the game itself
The third is negative - suggesting running around in the world is not immersive (which I somewhat agree with)

I didn't call him a 'hater', l hate that term myself. I just said he likes to complain about it a lot.

TreFacTor
12-12-2012, 07:03 PM
I don't understand the complaints regarding the "tackle from above" thing... You follow the guy and basically run into the opportunity to do it by taking the ramp right on a bend. Am i missing something? Bcause to me it seemed literally right in my face the path to take for it :-/

As for the Charle's Lee chase.. I can't say much since i only played Post-Patch. But it seemed easy enough to do every part of it.
You didn't attempt to tackle him at any point before the steps? If not then I guess you wouldn't agree with some of the complaints. I tried to tackle him from a rope connecting two buildings, from the top of the steps, and even from a ledge. I tried locking on to him and then doing it, but for some odd reason Connor would never perform the tackle animation he would simply jump down. I actually couldn't tackle this guy until I was halfway up the steps hand rail just sitting there waiting for him to come past. Now if the sync requisite had mentioned the staricase I'm certain there would have been less confusion. As for the other chase, i had no problem prepatch or post so yeah I can agree about that one with the exception that you still couldn't miss one step or you would be out of range and miss full sync.

MT4K
12-12-2012, 07:07 PM
You didn't attempt to tackle him at any point before the steps? If not then I guess you wouldn't agree with some of the complaints. I tried to tackle him from a rope connecting two buildings, from the top of the steps, and even from a ledge. I tried locking on to him and then doing it, but for some odd reason Connor would never perform the tackle animation he would simply jump down. I actually couldn't tackle this guy until I was halfway up the steps hand rail just sitting there waiting for him to come past. Now if the sync requisite had mentioned the staricase I'm certain there would have been less confusion. As for the other chase, i had no problem prepatch or post so yeah I can agree about that one with the exception that you still couldn't miss one step or you would be out of range and miss full sync.

Not sure what you mean by steps.. Basically just as you exit an Alley there's a ramp to the right which you then free run over and use a sign that takes you around the next corner. I tackle from that area. Sorry if that's what you meant, but i'm not sure it is because i don't recall seeing any places to air tackle from before that? It's quite a short chase though. He runs down the street. Turns right and goes past a well. Then through an alley and makes the right turn where the ramp is that i use.

Edit: Just made a video to show what i'm refering to. Hopefully it'll help clear up some confusion lol :p.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZcH9oy4aQ

D.I.D.
12-12-2012, 07:18 PM
The first one is just about lock picking - hardly complimenting the game
The second one has nothing to do with the game itself
The third is negative - suggesting running around in the world is not immersive (which I somewhat agree with)

I didn't call him a 'hater', l hate that term myself. I just said he likes to complain about it a lot.

That's an odd reading of those four pieces, but okay then, look at all the positivity in his most negative piece:


I thought I was going to love Assassin's Creed III. From everything I'd seen, it seemed like Ubisoft was doing everything in their not-inconsiderable power to push their flagship series into brave new territory. Except… well, they didn't manage to pull it off.

[...]

Not everyone feels this way: The game has garnered plenty of positive criticism, including a mixed but generally positive review from our own Stephen Totilo (http://kotaku.com/5957510/assassins-creed-iii-the-kotaku-review?tag=assassinscreed). But try though I may, I just can't love Assassin's Creed III. Of course, that's not to say I hate it—I don't.

[...]

It's interesting, and often smart. The story is cool, and I'm one of the people who actually likes that twisty, silly Desmond meta-narrative. I love the sense of place, the meticulously researched history, and think that this time period is hugely underrepresented in video games. I like exploring.

[...]

Despite all the disappointments I just listed, I still don't hate Assassin's Creed III. It's a game worth playing, and its basic setup, setting, and story are strong enough to overcome even that laundry list of complaints. And hey, the naval combat really is as cool as everyone says.

If anything he really wants this game to be good, and still acknowledges that it's worth playing. The idea that has the knives out for AC and somehow enjoys damaging its reputation is way off.

Lightpex
12-12-2012, 07:22 PM
I died around 12 times, not easy, but not really hard either. Poorly done? Yes.

BATISTABUS
12-12-2012, 08:07 PM
...I actually agree with this article 100%. The stuff before the boat was annoying and scripted, but that falling pile of wood just completely ****ed me over. Horrible conveyance on that one. I managed to eventually figure it out through countless repeats, but goddammit that was an annoying level.

tcplotts
12-17-2012, 10:41 PM
Love these little clashes over who is stupid and who isn't, with everyone missing the bloody point.
There was an old rule in gaming that the original laws of the physical universe of the game were not to be violated. Ever. And in the rare exceptions that they were, there had to be ample setup so the gamer could play with eyes open. Anything else was either poor design or trickery. It wasn't a question of whether or not you could or could not do something--and I see this attitude is becoming dominant--it was a question of professional courtesy.

Believe it or not, there a lot of players who don't find the "lets' have him die a lot to extend playing time' school of thought especially customer friendly.

That said, the design of this game is sh*t. And mostly because of the constant violations of the rules of the universe which you train to play in and then have them dramatically altered for "challenge". That's a fake sort of challenge. The challenge should be in the game itself, not external to it (ie: control difficulty).

There's pretty much no way to reconcile the differences of opinion on this issue. For people like me, it' a matter of principle. FOr others, it's simply about the ability to complete a given task regardless of the rules. That's fine. But it helps to understand where other people are coming from. We're a pretty diverse lot of folks.


Edit: I forgot to add something pretty important to this specific chase scene. What I had problems with was with the slide under the wood wall during the U-turn sequence on the ship. I've had problems with the slide command all game (and several other commands as well). And I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who have trouble with this sequence might be having trouble with some of the control glitches/bugs that are known on the pc port. For me to slide, I can't run straight in. I have to stop or slow to a walk to get the slide properly, which in a timed chase, can be a problem. So in my case, the difficulty was really a problem with buggy controls and not pathfinding.

Oh yeah, and I thought this chase was awful myself...:) Yeah, I could figure it out, but that didn't make it not suck. Felt only relief when finishing, not the joy that comes with beating something.

ACfan443
12-17-2012, 10:48 PM
Not sure what you mean by steps.. Basically just as you exit an Alley there's a ramp to the right which you then free run over and use a sign that takes you around the next corner. I tackle from that area. Sorry if that's what you meant, but i'm not sure it is because i don't recall seeing any places to air tackle from before that? It's quite a short chase though. He runs down the street. Turns right and goes past a well. Then through an alley and makes the right turn where the ramp is that i use.

Edit: Just made a video to show what i'm refering to. Hopefully it'll help clear up some confusion lol :p.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZcH9oy4aQ

Wow, that was pretty good.
I decided to go down the stairs route, it seemed the easiest

Gynn Baderact
12-17-2012, 10:49 PM
What I found most frustrating was the lack of a satisfyingly difficult fight at the end of the game.

Avagantamoz
12-18-2012, 02:18 AM
So one of the final parts of the game was difficult? OMG HOW DARE UBISOFT! <sarcasm

Of all the things people complain about in this game and a final "boss" fight is suddenly a problem? Charles mother****ing Lee burned down Connors village and is responsible for a lot of the bad stuff that happened in this game. He's one of the 2 main antagonists of the game (next to Haytham). Saying that chase was hard is just a pathetic attempt to rip on a great game.

Pretty much all the obstacles in this chase can be avoided. You can simply walk to the left to avoid the barrels and the guards can be either assassinated while running or just simply parkour around/over them. The part with the burning boat is rather hard but it hardly justifies calling this game or specific part bad.

Maybe just stick to complaining about legit things like bugs?

Assassin_M
12-18-2012, 02:20 AM
^ Charles Lee did not burn Connor`s village.....just sayin`

BATISTABUS
12-19-2012, 06:22 PM
respecting laws of the physical universe of games
One million times this.

This has been a problem in AC for a while now. Even if the scenes look epic, game-play the game almost always suffers. I know the series already has lengthy cut-scenes, but I feel that these belong in that medium or not at all. I think AC1 is the only game in the franchise to avoid things like that all-together, and I never felt any lack of impact.

DeathTollDavid
12-19-2012, 06:50 PM
Pre-patch it was awful. After the patch everything went smooth.

shornby
12-19-2012, 09:34 PM
I agree with him on the fact that this mission could've been done better, but dying 28 times? Keeping on trying to run through fire? He must be a total idiot.

The dude's an editor for Kotaku, which is a pretty respectable gaming site.

Calling him an idiot is a little idiotic in itself - you probably didn't read through the details of his article.

Assassin_M
12-19-2012, 09:38 PM
The dude's an editor for Kotaku, which is a pretty respectable gaming site.

Calling him an idiot is a little idiotic in itself - you probably didn't read through the details of his article.

Not really, No...

Dying 28 times IS stupid....him being an editor for Kotaku does not exempt him from everything

Aphex_Tim
12-19-2012, 09:39 PM
Pre-patch it was awful. After the patch everything went smooth.

What exactly did the patch change? I didn't notice much difference other than that i seemed to get full sync on the second try.

cat_awsum
12-19-2012, 11:27 PM
I'm proud to say I full synched the entire game before the patch and without tutorial, though it did take numerous tries for some missions, mainly the air tackle mission and this chase scene. I figured out that at the first guards you can use your recruits and sometimes it will distract one of the guards allowing you to pass.

TangentialShark
12-20-2012, 12:36 AM
I had no problems with the inside of the ship but during the initial chase on the docks I was desynched about 10 times before being able to catch up to him. Did Shaun forget to mention that Lee was a track runner or what?