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ValerioB80
12-05-2012, 03:59 AM
I currently play Ariana and one of the decks that make me suffer the most is Shaar OTK (the other is Siegfried Prison ^_^). I find it very boring but since I recently picked up a Shaar from a pack I'd like to try a few duels with it. I'm not very experienced so I need your help. Here's the deck (currently 58 cards):

Hero: Shaar, Invoker Of The Skies

Events:
4x Week of Knowledge
1x Celebrations

Creatures:
4x Pao Deathseeker
2x Moonsilk Spider (have 3)
1x Enraged Cyclops (have 4)

Spells:
4x Stone Shield
1x Fog Veil (have 2)
1x Grounded (have 4)
4x Cyclone (have 4)
3x Earthquake (have 3)
4x Insect Swarm
2x Fireball (have 4)
2x Firestorm (have 4)
1x Father Sky Wrath (have 3)
1x Armageddon (have 1)
4x Inner Fire

Fortunes:
3x Altar of Shadows (just have 3)
3x Wasteland (just have 3)
2x Broken Bridge (have 4)
2x Blood Shaman Hut (have 4)
1x Kat's Grand Finale
3x Arena (have 4)
4x Stone Of Enlightenment

What should I change/remove (58 cards atm, I should remove 2)? I also have:

Creatures:
1x Dark Assassin
3x Jaguar Warrior
4x Panther Warrior
1x Helexian Librarian

Spells:
4x Fire Bolt
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Immolation
4x Chain Lightning

Fortunes:
4x Arcane Academy
4x Call To Duty
4x Observatory
2x Crystal Cave
4x Crystal Of Power
4x Campfire

Any help will be appreciated :-)

ValerioB80
12-15-2012, 02:54 AM
No one? With the upcoming necro nerf I will be playing this... can someone who use Shaar help me to modify mine? :-)

leonid1995927
12-15-2012, 03:20 AM
Grounded is gonna be a dead drop vs Inferno.

If you don't have 4 Deathseekers it's not gonna be as good. Maybe if you have Cyclops and Grand Finale you could switch to that. *shrugs*

Don't think you need 4 Cyclones. 2/3 is enough. If you get too many copies you won't get more important cards. Use 2 Fog Veils.

Dump the Chain Lightning and Fireball. Without monsters to stop them the opponents will position their stuff to avoid these.

Kind of iffy on the Father Sky for the same reason I'm iffy regarding grounded. Fog Veil covers 2/3 creature types, but Grounded and Father's cover just 1/3.

Since you don't have 4x Armageddon and only 3x Earthquakes, I would suggest putting in a few Crystals of Power.

Also, Campfires are a must in any 3 Fortune deck as-well as, in your particular deck- Goldpiles.

Edit.
You can't use both Kat's Finale and Pao burn as your win condition. If you get Kat's and Cyclops it's GG anyway.

If you decide to stick with Pao burn you'll need more Inner Fires in retrospect because you do not want to over-use cards like Blood Shaman Hut. They will kill your hand before you even know it, so Inner Fires are a good substitute before you have time to get an advantage.

If you decide to pick the variant with Kat's (which I personally think is more solid for the reasons above), you'll do well to get rid of them. If you do, know that you only need to have 3x Blood Shaman Huts in your hand to deal 20 damage and only 2x of them if the opponent is already past 16 HP, which is easy to get.

For that reason I would suggest changing your playstyle a little bit to use the Arenas to draw more instead of for burn.

ValerioB80
12-15-2012, 04:09 AM
Nice hints, thanks!

About Pao/Kat the problem is that you can have just 1 Kat in hte deck, and if someone make you discard it it's over. That's why I have Paos too...

Also I don't like much Capfires because of the many 4x Week Of Taxes decks around... same reason for I hate goldpiles. I could put Campfires anyway :-)

Last thing: I thought Shaman Hut gave you +2 for each card discarded... just a +2 in total is not that good, Inner Fires are better... or am I losing something?

What about this setup?

Hero: Shaar, Invoker Of The Skies

Events:
4x Week of Knowledge
1x Celebrations

Creatures:
4x Pao Deathseeker
1x Enraged Cyclops (have 4)

Spells:
4x Stone Shield
2x Fog Veil (have 2)
3x Cyclone (have 4)
3x Earthquake (have 3)
4x Insect Swarm
2x Firestorm (have 4)
1x Father Sky Wrath (have 3)
1x Armageddon (have 1)
4x Inner Fire

Fortunes:
3x Altar of Shadows (have 3)
3x Wasteland (have 3)
2x Broken Bridge (have 4)
1x Kat's Grand Finale
4x Arena
4x Stone Of Enlightenment
4x Crystal Of Power

What should I remove for Campfires (56 cards atm)? Maybe Crystals Of Power? What about Call To Duty/Observatory (to speed up the Kat combo)?

I still post the others I have:

Creatures:
1x Dark Assassin
3x Jaguar Warrior
4x Panther Warrior
1x Helexian Librarian
3x Moonsilk Spider

Spells:
4x Grounded
4x Fire Bolt
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Immolation
4x Chain Lightning
4x Fireball

Fortunes:
4x Arcane Academy
4x Call To Duty
4x Observatory
2x Crystal Cave
4x Blood Shaman Hut

leonid1995927
12-15-2012, 07:29 AM
I wouldn't use Call to Duty or Observatory in my own deck.

They have their place but they fit in better with dedicated Fortune based decks like Siegfried OTK, which use Crystal Caverns. They're also a critically dead card in your hand if you already have Kat's or Raging Cyclops. And to add to that, you won't be able to do much until you get the proper amount of Blood Shaman Huts, Resources, Burn on the opponent anyway.


The thing about mixing both win conditions is regarding min-maxing (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MinMaxing).

You won't be effective in either of them if you use both. If you plan on killing them with Paos and Arenas, those Finale's Combo cards are going to be dead in your hand. You may have gotten a life-saving Stone Shield instead of them, for example...

And if you're afraid of losing the Finale's Combo via opposition discard; just stick with the Pao variety.

They both have their benefits and shortcomings, but in the end they're gonna have less of the first and more of the latter if you use them both at once.

hydramarine
12-15-2012, 11:53 AM
I played quite a lot of Stronghold OTK in previous months when my collection was rather small, but I played with Kat, still dont have Shaar.

I used 2 Enraged Cyclops and 1 Smaller Cyclops in case of discard. Both can finish with x3 Blood Shaman Huts. If they discard your Epic Fortune, it is gg, but otherwise you become pretty solid against Discard this way.

Market of Shadows in 1 copies is good to activate Arena against other combo decks. Actually it becomes a race of Market of Shadows in some mirror matches, which is really funny.

x4 Shield and Altar of Shadows, x4 Campire and Stone of Enlightments are core. The rest is according to your collection. I had x1 Crystal of Power, but x4 in every Earth spell. Fog Veil is pretty good, Father Sky is undependable I found.

ValerioB80
12-16-2012, 01:48 AM
So what would you change in the 2nd version I posted above? What would be the Finale version and what the Pao one?

ValerioB80
12-16-2012, 02:01 AM
EDIT: old post, see below

ValerioB80
12-16-2012, 06:08 AM
Ok, this is my setup now:

Hero: Shaar, Invoker Of The Skies

Events:
4x Week of Knowledge
1x Celebrations

Creatures:
4x Pao Deathseeker
1x Jaguar Warrior (have 4) <= just in case a Garant's Purification will remove all 4 Paos

Spells:
4x Inner Fire
3x Earthquake (have 3)
2x Fog Veil (have 2)
4x Stone Shield
4x Insect Swarm
4x Cyclone
1x Firestorm (have 4) <= I will remove this for Armageddon if I find one more
1x Armageddon (have 1)

Fortunes:
4x Blood Shaman's Hut
3x Arena (have 4)
4x Altar Of Shadows (just found the 4th!)
4x Campfire
2x Crystal Of Power (have 4)
4x Stone Of Enlightenment
3x Wasteland (have 3) <= I want one moreeee! :-)

58 cards, but I found that this particular deck finishes cards sometimes so two more could be even a good thing. It works pretty well!! I lost some duels at the beginning cause I was unexperienced but now I'm winning a lot of them, almost all of them. Thanks for the help!!

If you have any suggestion more I will be glat to hear :-)

leonid1995927
12-16-2012, 03:21 PM
Put in a 4th Arena.

I can't put my finger on in, but this seems to miss something, too.

You need to replace the 3x missing Armageddons with something.

ValerioB80
12-16-2012, 10:22 PM
Would you remove something or just add what you said? I don't think there's a valid replacement for missing Armageddon, I hope to find some soon, Swarm+Power works pretty well anyway :-)

psychobabble.
12-16-2012, 11:29 PM
No one? With the upcoming necro nerf I will be playing this... can someone who use Shaar help me to modify mine? :-)

There's an upcoming necro nerf? where did they announce this? I really hope they didn't give into the whingers and add a cost to nergal's ability, that ability isn't worth a card (which is the opportunity cost of a hero activation), it absolutely doesn't deserve to have a cost.

ValerioB80
12-16-2012, 11:38 PM
The ability deserve a 1 resource cost, but they are not going to nerf that, they are nerfing all the most useful creatures: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/738341-Release-Notes-December-18th-2012

psychobabble.
12-16-2012, 11:48 PM
The ability deserve a 1 resource cost, but they are not going to nerf that, they are nerfing all the most useful creatures: http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/738341-Release-Notes-December-18th-2012

can you justify that statement? In what sense is one poison counter worth a card? There isn't a single playable spell in the game that I can think of that is as weak as "put a poison counter on target creature". They're absolutely right to keep that at free cost.

I'll have to digest the creature changes, though.

ValerioB80
12-17-2012, 12:01 AM
I said 1 resource cost, not a card, I agree that a cart is far too much but 0 resource is too few considering that another hero discard a card to deal 2 damage (ok, 2 istant damage is better, but a poison counter can deal even more damage in time... 1 resource would be fair...).

psychobabble.
12-17-2012, 12:09 AM
I said 1 resource cost, not a card, I agree that a cart is far too much but 0 resource is too few considering that another hero discard a card to deal 2 damage (ok, 2 istant damage is better, but a poison counter can deal even more damage in time... 1 resource would be fair...).
but each activation of your hero IS using a card, because the opportunity cost of doing anything other than "pay 1 draw a card" with your hero is a card. Using nergal's activation ability is essentially saying "gain one resource, discard a card" even though the cost isn't explicit. If they costed it at one resource then the cost is exactly "discard a card" (without the +resources part) which isn't worth it.

ValerioB80
12-17-2012, 12:51 AM
It is like a 0 cost card wich put a poison counter on a creature. I think many people would play such a card... a card like "gain 1 resource, put a poison counter" would be overpowered :-)

psychobabble.
12-17-2012, 12:56 AM
It is like a 0 cost card wich put a poison counter on a creature.

Yep, I think that's right. And I think most people wouldn't play such a card if it cost 1. Which means the hero ability is costed about right :).

ValerioB80
12-17-2012, 02:59 AM
No because as you said you pay 1 resource with your hero for a card, so if you pay 1 resource for the ability too is counter for card, otherwise you keep 1 resource more :-)

Anyway it's not a problem atm, imho they yould have nerfed heros instead of creatures, this way: Nergal 1 resource cost ability (as said), Ariana's ability just kill poison countered creatures (instead of rage and anything else countered ones too). The creature nerf makes the necro creatures underpowered, and maybe damage Nergal decks even more than ability nerf (since now wih 1hp less they're easier to kill for inferno rushers and damage spells). But they decided this way and I don't complain: I just change deck :-)