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Jetdoc_5th
07-18-2004, 04:32 PM
there is a rumor that there will be hugh patch coming out soon with the Flyable Bombers in it.I know that the Cockpit for the JU-88 is completed and there has been talk of the B-17 being finished and that the B-25's are completed. Will someone once and for all tell us when and where I don't care if it's another pay pack like Ace's I will buy it quicker then I bought Aces. There are more Bomber Pilots out here then you know that are chomping at the bit,that will at least give us something to look forward to


Commanding Officer
345th Bomber Group
Col. Jetdoc
5th Airforce

Jetdoc_5th
07-18-2004, 04:32 PM
there is a rumor that there will be hugh patch coming out soon with the Flyable Bombers in it.I know that the Cockpit for the JU-88 is completed and there has been talk of the B-17 being finished and that the B-25's are completed. Will someone once and for all tell us when and where I don't care if it's another pay pack like Ace's I will buy it quicker then I bought Aces. There are more Bomber Pilots out here then you know that are chomping at the bit,that will at least give us something to look forward to


Commanding Officer
345th Bomber Group
Col. Jetdoc
5th Airforce

Obi_Kwiet
07-18-2004, 06:13 PM
A B-17 cockpit wouldrock like none other.

Alexander_Seil
07-18-2004, 07:15 PM
Ehh, not to suggest that B17 or B25 would be bad or anything (hell, it would rock...), but what's up with no mention of the Ostfront? Finns could use a flyable Blenheim or two, plus something more modern than TB-3 (which is the coolest plane in the game, but the most impractical http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ) for the USSR that is not Pe2/Pe3 would be nice (Pe-8 comes to mind...). Anyway, if the rumor of that patch is true, I'm waiting, download manager in hand http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bomber-Burn
07-18-2004, 07:24 PM
I completely agree with you!!! We need flyable bombers in this game. Some update or information on this patch would be good, if there is still a patch coming or the only thing coming is Pacific Fighters. The last patch was a bit dissappointing with no flyable bombers, no new maps, only 1 german plane, but there was time to include 10 different variations of spitfires and Yak-9's
I hope the upcoming patch makes up for this! with flyable B-25's, Ju-88, B-17, Pe-2 and hopefully some unexpected surprizes. I'd gladly wait an extra couple of weeks for a great patch or would spend money for a bomber expansion pack.
I'm tired of only hearing about Pacific Fighter we still want to be updated about this patch that should becoming before PF.
I appreiciate all your hard work on everything, but remember: FLYABLE BOMBERS-WORTH THE TIME-EVERY TIME!!!!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Alexander_Seil
07-18-2004, 07:30 PM
Don't underestimate the selling power of heavy bombers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I never considered purchasing the original Il-2. Why? NO BOMBERS. Every year a dozen (worthless, mostly) different flight sims come out, and they all feature the same old fighters, fighter-bombers, etc. It's not even that I'm, a newbie to flight sims, going to fly bombers all the time (although I plan to once I get a good hang of things) Of course not. But the sheer fact that the option exists exercised so much influence on my gaming priorities that I went out and bought FB...so please, don't ignore the bombers.

TheJoyStick
07-18-2004, 09:07 PM
Yeah.. I hated IL2 because there were no bombers, no twin engine fighters (110, or p38), and only like 5 or 6 different planes.. The graphics were cool, though, and that's why I stuck around.. I quit, and waited for FB after a while, and FB hasn't let me down. I do wish that some minor things were left in/taken out, or made better all together, but it's a worthy compromise.

PE_Sushi
07-19-2004, 06:25 AM
IMHO, once we got the Ju88 and the PE-2, which is an attack plane and not a "classical bomber" like the Ju88 for example, the most important Eastern front medium bombers missing in the game will be the Do-17Z (even AI) and, for VVS side, the IL-4
the IL-4 and the SB2 were the most widely used medium bombers used by VVS, the PE-8 was very rare and its a very long range bomber, like the B17 and the map we got now are not suited for flyable B-17

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 12:09 PM
The distance at which B17s conducted some of their raids wasn't that much larger than the distance from, say, Helsinki to Petersburg. Besides, Pe-8 is just too damn cool not to be included...

Gibbage1
07-19-2004, 12:42 PM
There are many bombers complete. Oleg mentioned in the post the Ju-88 and TU-2. There are others, but they may be destined for PF. But I know for a fact that the TU-2 and Ju-88 will make its way into IL2 but not in this upcomming patch.

PE_Sushi
07-19-2004, 01:33 PM
Alex : that's my point, we could say more or less that the minimum "classical range" for B-17 equals the diagonal of the largest map we got in game...
however it's not like if we had to choose bewteen planes and I'd be happy with any new flyable bomber in the game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Gibbage : flyable TU-2 ! i didn't knew that, and I must say it's very good news http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jagdmailer
07-19-2004, 01:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PE_Sushi:
Alex : that's my point, we could say more or less that the minimum "classical range" for B-17 equals the diagonal of the largest map we got in game...
however it's not like if we had to choose bewteen planes and I'd be happy with any new flyable bomber in the game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Gibbage : flyable TU-2 ! i didn't knew that, and I must say it's very good news http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He was probably referring to Pe-2, not Tu-2. I have yet to see anything about the Tu-2 at this point in time.

As for other bombers, Luthier stole the A-20G & the Beaufighter for his PF deal. May or may not get cockpits/gun positions for the B-25 because of that too.....

JagdMailer

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 02:27 PM
I'd rather have them concentrate on German and Soviet bombers for FB. All you Anglos will get your share of bombers with PF http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Two bombers besides Pe-2/3 and Ju-88 that HAVE to be made are both Blenheims, though. Finland figures prominently in the game yet has only a fighter campaign...I'm amazed all the Finns didn't yet organize a pressure group for the inclusion of those.

As for long range bombers...taking off from Leningrad in Pe-8 to terror bomb Helsinki wouldn't take you from one end of the map to the other...neither city is quite on the "edge". Besides, it's the third largest plane in the game (after Me-323/1 and TB-3) and belongs to a major combatant. If there's even a rumor of including B-17 and B-25 as flyable, they should better be done with Pe-8 first...the meat of this game consists of German/Russian/Finnish/Hungarian/Slovak/Romanian campaigns/missions/planes. Brits and Americans will get their toys with PF...

Gibbage1
07-19-2004, 03:06 PM
From what I have heard from Oleg, there will never be a flyable Pe-8. Not enough referances. Not only for modeling, but flight. AI Pe-8 has a very basic FM.

As for B-25 flyable, VVS had many of them. Same with the A-20. They had very few B-17's.

But Alex. Please remember. Since FB and Aces, THIS IS NO LONGER A GERMAN VS RUSSIA SIM! We have Pacific maps, Normandy and so on. This is now a European war sim. Brits and Americans have there "toys" NOW!!! Its rather narrow minded to say that its still only a Western front game.

Gib

P.S. I think it is a Pe-2 no a Tu-2. My bad. But its looking amazing!

Troger
07-19-2004, 03:09 PM
Yes i think the B-17, B-25, Ju-88, and some other bombers like the TU, or Blenheims or Pe-2. Simply cannot forget the bombers.......... I had alot of fun flying the HE-111 on bombing runs and can only imagion the fun with the others

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 03:16 PM
Yes, quite unfortunately, this is now more than an Eastern Front sim. It's not me who's narrowminded, though, but rather Americans and Brits who just can't live without taking to the skies over Normandy one more time...I doubt there will be another Eastern Front fight sim for many, many years to come, but I'm sure that there will be an obligatory "Northwestern Europe '43-45" sim coming out every year. I may sound bitter, but it's a fact that the gaming public buys formulaic, "tried and true" games based on precedents.

[This message was edited by Alexander_Seil on Mon July 19 2004 at 02:26 PM.]

[This message was edited by Alexander_Seil on Mon July 19 2004 at 02:30 PM.]

609IAP_Recon
07-19-2004, 03:29 PM
I would pay more for a bomber addon than PF without blinking an eye.

The idea of a pe2, b25, and ju88 being flyable (I'd like to see the a20 as well) - is 3 times as exciting to me than a carrier.

Salute!

S!
17th_Gentile

Full Real Virtual Online War: Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com)

Gibbage1
07-19-2004, 03:58 PM
So your saying that now, because of the inclusion of the P-51 and Spit, the sim is "tainted" for you because of these aircraft? Here is news for you buddy. You dont need to fly them or fight them. You can still fly an IL2 mission and never see the likes of a P-38. Its rather narrow minded to say the game is now just anothe reastern front sim. All eastern front sims have ignored the western front. Now we have a game that includes all of Europ and thats a bad thing?

Here is news for you buddy. Oleg team modeled the P-51. Why? Because Oleg wanted to expand the product. This is no longer a western front sim, or a eastern front sim, but a European war sim! Get over it dude.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alexander_Seil:
Yes, quite unfortunately, this is now more than an Eastern Front sim. It's not me who's narrowminded, though, but rather Americans and Brits who just can't live without taking to the skies over Normandy one more time...I doubt there will be another Eastern Front fight sim for many, many years to come, but I'm sure that there will be an obligatory "Northwestern Europe '43-45" sim coming out every year. I may sound bitter, but it's a fact that the gaming public buys formulaic, "tried and true" games based on precedents.

[This message was edited by Alexander_Seil on Mon July 19 2004 at 02:26 PM.]

[This message was edited by Alexander_Seil on Mon July 19 2004 at 02:30 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 04:17 PM
All Eastern Front sims? You mean, like, Il-2 and...what else...Il-2: FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif At any rate, inclusion of American/British planes that didn't see much service on the Eastern Front and making a Normandy map takes away the focus from Eastern Front...which is what this game is supposed to be about. Face it, Western Front has had too much attention flight-sim wise. Must be balanced out somewhere...

What inclusion of that map and those planes does is make the dev team direct their efforts to patching those planes and issues related to them rather than patching/adding Eastern planes. Provided they balance it out (with more focus going to the Eastern Front), it would be good, but I'm afraid patching may be just cut off when PF comes out (I doubt Ubi Soft would bother to support the product after that, which would make it impossible for MG to do so).

[This message was edited by Alexander_Seil on Mon July 19 2004 at 03:28 PM.]

p1ngu666
07-19-2004, 04:32 PM
i think its cool that il2 is now worldwide, to a limited extent...
but its a shame that a world war took place...

anyways in PF i think we get a flyable b29, but im in NO way sure
a good late war heavy bomber finaly

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

Alexander_Seil
07-19-2004, 05:01 PM
Making PF without a flyable B-29 would be just too cruel...

Future-
07-19-2004, 07:58 PM
I clearly recall a posting by luthier where he mentioned that the B-25s will be available as flyables for BOTH FB and PF.

I would consider not doing so a major let-down. Not to mention the reduced trustworthyness.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

PE_Sushi
07-20-2004, 01:44 AM
I'm happy with any new plane, english, american, what if : 3rd party modellers choose what they like. I'd be more than happy to fly a B17 in FB

It's just that :
- at this point flyable bomber adds more to gameplay than another fighter, especially if it's both dive and level bomber (thx to Agamemnon and Jippo for incoming PE2 and JU88)

- for eastern front mission building with historical accuracy in mind, VVS has no medium bomber (you don't want to jump from TB3 to B25),thats the reason why flyable SB2 or IL-4 would be cool and these could fit well to the map size we got in game. (imagine the winter war mission we could have with flyable SB2 and AI/flyable Fokker DXXI !)

@Jagdmailer : not to forget the Do-17Z whose external model is almost completed but has no modeller left

jagdmailer
07-20-2004, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PE_Sushi:
I'm happy with any new plane, english, american, what if : 3rd party modellers choose what they like. I'd be more than happy to fly a B17 in FB

It's just that :
- at this point flyable bomber adds more to gameplay than another fighter, especially if it's both dive and level bomber (thx to Agamemnon and Jippo for incoming PE2 and JU88)

- for eastern front mission building with historical accuracy in mind, VVS has no medium bomber (you don't want to jump from TB3 to B25),thats the reason why flyable SB2 or IL-4 would be cool and these could fit well to the map size we got in game. (imagine the winter war mission we could have with flyable SB2 and AI/flyable Fokker DXXI !)

@Jagdmailer : not to forget the Do-17Z whose external model is almost completed but has no modeller left<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sushi,

I do not forget.....the model was the one I recuperated from the original modeller and that was abandonned....http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I brought it within the Omega Squad and then Luthier re-appeared out of nowhere, took away a bunch of 3D modellers - taking away several models that were being built for Il-2/FB for his PF project (Beaufighter, A-20, B-26....) in the process and collapsing Omega.....this is basically why the Do 17Z-2, Dornier 217s (many variants) and Heinkel 177 are still unfinished and will probably stay this way.

Just lovely.....

Jagd

PE_Sushi
07-20-2004, 11:16 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Do217 and He 177 were WIP and now abandoned ?! I didn't knew that !
this is heartbreaking news http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
but we got to respect modellers' decision to change project

maybe these bombers will come, along with Do17, in some western front oriented add on who knows...

I'm even more scared for soviet bombers because we won't see any other good eastern front sim before a looooooooong time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif

jagdmailer
07-20-2004, 11:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PE_Sushi:
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif Do217 and He 177 were WIP and now abandoned ?! I didn't knew that !
this is heartbreaking news http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
but we got to respect modellers' decision to change project

maybe these bombers will come, along with Do17, in some western front oriented add on who knows...

I'm even more scared for soviet bombers because we won't see any other good eastern front sim before a looooooooong time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/cry.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sushi, about the Dorniers & the heinkel - I said that they were unfinished and will probably stay this way - probably meaning that they may or may not get done. I think it all depends on what Oleg will do with AEP2.

If there is no AEP2, then they are basically gone. If there is an AEP2, this means that the modellers & texture artists involved with the Dornier 17/217s and Heinkel 177 will likely be done with their current PF projects shortly and in the case of a March 2005 AEP2 release, they would have ample time to complete those German bombers.

Cheers,

Jagd