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View Full Version : Concerns With the Way Story is Handled [spoilers]



Shingram
11-27-2012, 08:51 PM
The way this game ends is extremely abrupt and does not take the series in a new direction at all! So we are left with no real conclusion or resolution because everything in that world remains status quo. When we next pick up an AC game the world will be pretty much in the same spot it was in when AC1 started. There's a threat of enslavement and a group trying to prevent it. We've gone off the same basic plot for over 6 games now so when you say you were coming out with a conclusive ending and when fans say they are completely pissed off thats why. We just exchanged the name Desmond for some future as of now nameless character. That is NOT a real conclusive ending.


Much of the tension that was building throughout these games does not meet with any payoff because the direction the storyline takes trivializes what used to be a major plot issue without actually resolving it. The character of Desmond is wracked with guilt and anger over being forced to kill Lucy and there is some mystery person he must go through the gate with! If you didnt download DLC then Desmond never talks about guilt or anger. if you didn't dl the DLC then the first thing you find out about it really is in a side convo with rebecca where he off hand mentions "Nbd she was a double agent I saw it in my head." He never questions whether it was bs or an illusion or trick of some kind he just trusts the magic hologram that denounces all of mankind and murders her. Seems legit. Oh and the "mystery person" well this was never ever CLOSE to being addressed in the game. Also I'm pretty sure "the truth" and "Eve" were portrayed as MAJOR plot points in AC2. They are never ever ever brought up...ever. A major plot point just wholly ignored in not one (BH) not two (RV) but THREE III 3 games including the game that promised a conclusive ending!

The whole "find various temples" schtick was apparently completely forgotten. The abstergo satellite likewise is apparently completely forgotten. Look you story writers at ubisoft clearly failed miserably to think this through. Every games story was designed to extend the series main storyline. It's pretty clear that this is just a disturbing trend in the industry in general. Stick with what works...a storyline with desmond works? Ok stick with that and keep pushing that storyline in handhelds, AC1,2,BH,RV,3 keep that story going and going and going so we can sell merch.


But the problem is Desmonds story is ending (wont say how). it's ended now but that is seemingly the ONLY thing that ended. AThe entire AC storyline is not even affected at all. How could the main character of 5+ games finish his story and apparently have no discernible impact? He got a Sophie's Choice where either choice accomplishes roughly the same thing hence no discernible impact. And you guys have this horrible company policy of releasing major plot points in DLC without advertising at all that it's in there

Thats what led me to make this post because this is an absolutely horrible business practice. You are pruposely witholding content from your main games so that you can add it to side merch? You are literally taking content out of your main games and reducing the quality of these games so that you can add to DLC or handheld games! This is why after loving the AC series I am done with your company. I will watch playthroughs on youtube and read on wiki sites b/c honestly thats where I've recieved most of the info on your AC universe anyway because you hide all of the story details in DLC and side merch.

But you guys aren't the only ones engaging in awful business practices:

4. Final Fantasy XIII-2
Imagine spending over sixty hours playing a game without getting any closure at the end. 'To be continued' is the last thing you want to hear when finishing up Final Fantasy thirteen-two. And Square Enix promising to sell other endings as DLC in the future is just plain wrong.
3. Asura's Wrath
Asura's Wrath is another offender of making you buy the 'true ending'. The game ends poorly but gamers are able to buy four additional 'ending episodes' as DLC. It's a cheap way to grab some extra cash and a giant middle finger in the face of gamers.

People want to continue to buy and support this practice fine. The gameplay is still rewarding but the fact is i got sucked into the storyline and now I feel like my interest is being taken advantage of without being rewarded. Borderlands had no storyline but I was fine spending 60 on the next one with NO expectation of story. In this game the story was a big part of my motivation for buying. The giant advertised battles were another (Didn't have that in the game either unless you count sneaking around in the trees and running from rock to rock). I don't support companies that falsely advertise and lie to their customers

Poodle_of_Doom
11-27-2012, 09:09 PM
Thank You!!! I love this post. It sums up most of my major complaints!!

Lightpex
11-27-2012, 09:10 PM
"The gameplay is still rewarding but the fact is i got sucked into the storyline and now I feel like my interest is being taken advantage of without being rewarded."

I agree with this. I was very much hoping for grand, conclusive final with an epic "end" feeling in it as I prepared myself to watch Desmond make make a decision of some sort and close the ark.
What did I get? Your typical AC ending. Now don't get me wrong, I loved the AC endings. The left you speechless and eager for more. However, Ubisoft made it a point to say "We wanted to reward the players with more story and have all their hard work going through the story pay off." You did not do this. For that, I feel cheated, and the ending was a major let-down. I am probably one of Assassin's Crred's biggest fans, owning every game, back book, apparel, and fan stuff in general. Was I looking forward to the ending of ACIII? Hell yeah! Was I disappointed with the utter lack of climax the ending possessed? Yes, yes I was.

Shingram
11-27-2012, 09:17 PM
I should have split this into two threads. The lack of payoff is one complaint. The nonsensical actions and conradictions I think is a completely different issue and this time travel can of worms really is worthy of a novel it's so poorly concieved and planned. You can tell they never planned on any of this or they just have very terrible writers.

montagemik
11-27-2012, 09:20 PM
Dude - we were promised an end to Desmond as the protagonist as i understood it . THAT'S WHAT WE GOT !

I Never expected a conclusion to the saga with a neat little bow wrapped around it - The story was always bigger than just Desmond's journey or his role in it.
(which i'm not convinced is completely over - only his role as main protagonist is final from what i was shown ).
You want the holy grail - the answer to everything - ALL EXPLAINED .
Maybe in time we'll get that , but if you truly understood the previous games or the main story arc & concept of the AC saga - You had to know it wasn't going to end with desmond pressing some magical cure for all the world's problems. Seriously.
And i'm not sure what 'Major plotlines as DLC only' you keep reffering to . :confused:
Some interesting plotline fillers perhaps - but nothing that the whole story literally hangs on is DLC only .
Your mystery person never explained to us ---------The story isn't finished YET.

TWCB had to do things exactly how they did things - They'd already seen the future coming , altering what lead to that future could ultimately unravel any & all plans they had for it or mankind.
Everything had to lead to Desmond's final moments. That's why they left any clues in the first place.

Sorry if you were expecting some kind of Harry potter type plotline here - But AC Story is far from over & much deeper than it seems you thought it was.
The best is yet to come - & in a sense we've only just finished our induction process.

You can't have the END - UNTIL THE END
True story bro - seriously.

Lightpex
11-27-2012, 09:24 PM
Dude - we were promised an end to Desmond as the protagonist as i understood it . THAT'S WHAT WE GOT !
True story bro - seriously.

Yes, I agree with this also. Not EVERYTHING, but most, should have been explained. I personally thought that Ubi should have given us more like they promised. That is really my only complaint. The ending should have been more climactic, giving us much more information after taking 5 games to do it.

Shingram
11-27-2012, 09:31 PM
Dude - we were promised an end to Desmond as the protagonist as i understood it . THAT'S WHAT WE GOT !

I Never expected a conclusion to the saga with a neat little bow wrapped around it - The story was always bigger than just Desmond's journey or his role in it.
(which i'm not convinced is completely over - only his role as main protagonist is final from what i was shown ).
You want the holy grail - the answer to everything - ALL EXPLAINED .
Maybe in time we'll get that , but if you truly understood the previous games or the main story arc & concept of the AC saga - You had to know it wasn't going to end with desmond pressing some magical cure for all the world's problems. Seriously.
And i'm not sure what 'Major plotlines as DLC only' you keep reffering to . :confused:
Some interesting plotline fillers perhaps - but nothing that the whole story literally hangs on is DLC only .
Your mystery person never explained to us ---------The story isn't finished YET.

TWCB had to do things exactly how they did things - They'd already seen the future coming , altering what lead to that future could ultimately unravel any & all plans they had for it or mankind.
Everything had to lead to Desmond's final moments. That's why they left any clues in the first place.

Sorry if you were expecting some kind of Harry potter type plotline here - But AC Story is far from over & much deeper than it seems you thought it was.
The best is yet to come - & in a sense we've only just finished our induction process.

You can't have the END - UNTIL THE END
True story bro - seriously.

Your entire post shows a severe inability to comprehend and your tone is that of a complete troll. learn how to discuss things or dont waste your time posting b/c I wont bother responding to this illogical mess of a post. Bro-seriously learn to read. "I dunno what DLC you're referring to" it's right there in the post bro learn to read. But maybe thats the point "you dont know". "Sorry if you were expecting some Harry potter blah blah blah " pretty sure I never said anything about harry potter or happy ends. Advice if you want to be an adult and have a rational discussion don't try to make inferences and put words in people's mouths especially when you're 100% wrong.

In the previous game they mention Desmond "walking through the gate" with someone...well if Desmonds story is OVER as they promised and we didnt see any mystery person go through the gate with him then hmmmmmmmmmm. See where I'm going with this now that I've pracitcally spelt it out for you?

Here lemme help you again "The way this game ends is extremely abrupt and does not take the series in a new direction at all! So we are left with no real conclusion or resolution because everything in that world remains status quo. When we next pick up an AC game the world will be pretty much in the same spot it was in when AC1 started. There's a threat of enslavement and a group trying to prevent it. "

Where does that say i need a happy ending? What it says is im tired of the same basic story when they promised a conclusive ending. Also it should be common sense but apparently for you it isn't. After spending COUNTLESS HOURS playing these AC games I want to feel like my actions have meaning. What this quote indicates is that everything is completely status quo which indicates my actions have had a negligible impact at best. My actions throughout all the games feels even more meaningless because the finale of AC3 is rendered to a Sophies choice a choice which I can't even make! Sorry but after all of these hours having everything stay status quo is lazy writing and unacceptable.

The satellite, finding Eve, saving the world from enslavement, find various temples, the truth. The annihilation of the assassin's in the colony. These are major plot points all ignored or not resolved. Unacceptable. Two major plot points that are concluded are what roles will Cross and Desmond play? And in BOTH cases the payoffs flat out SUCKED

Grandmaster_Z
11-27-2012, 09:40 PM
Thank You!!! I love this post. It sums up most of my major complaints!!

word

montagemik
11-27-2012, 09:45 PM
I Understood your thread / novel .
I Also understood the AC Saga we've seen so far .We saw 3 people walk through the gate with him - there full role is yet not fully explained.
My expectations were realistic & AS for TROLLING , you're the only one turning this 'discussion' you want into personal namecalling ironically on the first person who disagrees with you.

You form your opinions & be dissapointed - I'll play - watch - digest- understand & form my own , with the realisation .....This story is just beginning .

Now glad you got your insults out of your system - & as you won't be buying anymore of this AC Nonsense - It shouldn't be a problem for you for much longer .
Thanks.

zhengyingli
11-27-2012, 09:48 PM
Your entire post shows a severe inability to comprehend and your tone is that of a complete troll.
How can anyone take you seriously when you call what seems to be a legitimate counterpoint's originator a troll?

montagemik
11-27-2012, 09:51 PM
How can anyone take you seriously when you call what seems to be a legitimate counterpoint's originator a troll?

Let him rant - i disagreed is the only problem he has.

Shingram
11-27-2012, 09:52 PM
I Understood your thread / novel .
I Also understood the AC Saga we've seen so far .
My expectations were realistic & AS for TROLLING , you're the only one turning this 'discussion' you want into personal namecalling ironically on the first person who disagrees with you.

You form your opinions & be dissapointed - I'll play - watch - digest- understand & form my own , with the realisation .....This story is just beginning .

Now glad you got your insults out of your system - & as you won't be buying anymore of this AC Nonsense - It shouldn't be a problem for you for much longer .
Thanks.

Actually you started it with your stupid Harry potter happy ending references or are you too ignorant to realize how combative and accusatory you were being? Grow up and learn to talk like an adult or people will go back at you. Start a confrontation and then cry about how you're not causing a problem lol. Like I said if people wnt to spend on this thats fine I say nothing bad about that. I said nothing bad about if you personally enjoyed the story. What you did was come here and dismiss all of the legitamate issues with your own poor explanations (some which make no sense) and then you put words in my mouth. At that point you are being nothing more than a troll whether on purpose or accidentally out of your unintended ignorance

You apparently didn;t understand the AC story much at all if you made all of these false assumptions

"You form your opinions to be dissappointed" again this is just your own lack of knowledge coming out here and leading you to make inferences that are not only untrue but nonsensical as well. I greatly enjoyed the AC series for over 5 games now and I still speak highly of the gameplay. I am displeased and concerned with the obvious plot failures because they seem to be driven by greed. I am also concerned about how the quality of the main games is being subtracted from so that DLC can be made more important. Your inability to understand this speaks volumes about you as a person. I'm embarassed by my response to you not because it was overly harsh or anything but because you are clearly someone incapable of understanding and I should have realized I was wasting my time

montagemik
11-27-2012, 09:54 PM
Actually you started it with your stupid Harry potter happy ending references or are you too ignorant to realize how combative and accusatory you were being? Grow up and learn to talk like an adult or people will go back at you. Start a confrontation and then cry about how you're not causing a problem lol. Like I said if people wnt to spend on this thats fine I say nothing bad about that. I said nothing bad about if you personally enjoyed the story. What you did was come here and dismiss all of the legitamate issues with your own poor explanations (some which make no sense) and then you put words in my mouth. At that point you are being nothing more than a troll whether on purpose or accidentally out of your unintended ignorance

Again you're back at me only with further insults ..............Feel better yet ???


How about now ? - oh well , give it time.

The end of a story comes at the end , not before . However many points you thought were unanswered . It isn't over yet.

Lowly Assassin
11-27-2012, 09:58 PM
Lots of people at saying the story ended really quickly and the ending was rubbish
I wonder how many of these people exited the animus every sequence to get all the extra dialog from bill, Shaun, Rebecca and Juno


And also the end of the game was not the end of the story
The entire game was the end of the story and the way every extra email and bit of dialog /cut scene Desmond had really helped in ending desmonds story
I feal happy with the way it ended but real it could also be expanded or rebooted if ubi feel the need

mustash
11-27-2012, 10:00 PM
Actually you started it with your stupid Harry potter happy ending references or are you too ignorant to realize how combative and accusatory you were being? Grow up and learn to talk like an adult or people will go back at you. Start a confrontation and then cry about how you're not causing a problem lol. Like I said if people wnt to spend on this thats fine I say nothing bad about that. I said nothing bad about if you personally enjoyed the story. What you did was come here and dismiss all of the legitamate issues with your own poor explanations (some which make no sense) and then you put words in my mouth. At that point you are being nothing more than a troll whether on purpose or accidentally out of your unintended ignorance

Look, you are both wasting your time getting into a feud. Misunderstanding or deliberate trolling aside (from either party) is completely besides the point of your topic.

I happen to agree with you Shing, I feel like they have used the story to string me along in playing the games (which themselves are fantastic) whilst dropping key plot points in DLC (such as the location of the Grand Temple (which to be fair was expanded upon in Revelations) or Lucy being a traitor (which was then sorta expanded upon in AC3).

I can understand the reasoning for this because not everyone is going to catch the glypths, or buy the DLC's but the practise itself of sticking what could be argued as critical story content into side missions or DLC is indeed, questionable. Adding insult to injury in this case, is when they promise to resolve plot archs 5 games long, they merely gloss over that resolution in favour of future sequels.

I mean, it was fascinating through most of the game, getting little glimpses of the meta arch involving TWCB, Desmond in the present, etc. It's the resolution or lack there of that concerns me. Vidic, Cross? Dead. Did we get a final speech from Vidic, the first antagonist you are introduced to in the Assassin's Creed saga? Nope. How about Cross? The only details you get on him are optional dialogues which I guess most players will miss, therefore missing just how important this guy was to the Templars.

All in all, this game did a poor job at resolving any of the lingering threads.

zhengyingli
11-27-2012, 10:01 PM
Actually you started it with your stupid Harry potter happy ending references or are you too ignorant to realize how combative and accusatory you were being? Grow up and learn to talk like an adult or people will go back at you. Start a confrontation and then cry about how you're not causing a problem lol. Like I said if people wnt to spend on this thats fine I say nothing bad about that. I said nothing bad about if you personally enjoyed the story. What you did was come here and dismiss all of the legitamate issues with your own poor explanations (some which make no sense) and then you put words in my mouth. At that point you are being nothing more than a troll whether on purpose or accidentally out of your unintended ignorance

You apparently didn;t understand the AC story much at all if you made all of these false assumptions

"You form your opinions to be dissappointed" again this is just your own lack of knowledge coming out here and leading you to make inferences that are not only untrue but nonsensical as well. I greatly enjoyed the AC series for over 5 games now and I still speak highly of the gameplay. I am displeased and concerned with the obvious plot failures because they seem to be driven by greed. I am also concerned about how the quality of the main games is being subtracted from so that DLC can be made more important. Your inability to understand this speaks volumes about you as a person. I'm embarassed by my response to you not because it was overly harsh or anything but because you are clearly someone incapable of understanding and I should have realized I was wasting my time
Dude, just argue the points presented by him instead of getting personal. He questioned the reasoning behind your story preference, so prove him wrong!

Shingram
11-27-2012, 10:01 PM
[QUOTE=zhengyingli;8738907]How can anyone take you seriously when you call what seems to be a legitimate counterpoint's originator a troll?[/QUOTE
Hopefully this is clarified by my next post. The troll part is when he talks about harry potter happy endings, puts words in my mouth and dismisses some of my legitamate issues by saying "I don't know..." or by offering an explanation that actually is nonsensical. Trolls often post nonsense that is so unbelievably foolish that it incites anger and response.

Shingram
11-27-2012, 10:02 PM
Again you're back at me only with further insults ..............Feel better yet ???


How about now ? - oh well , give it time.

The end of a story comes at the end , not before . However many points you thought were unanswered . It isn't over yet.


Stating facts (which you then ignore) is not insulting you unless you dislike facts about yourself but thats hardly my problem.

zhengyingli
11-27-2012, 10:02 PM
[QUOTE=zhengyingli;8738907]How can anyone take you seriously when you call what seems to be a legitimate counterpoint's originator a troll?[/QUOTE
Hopefully this is clarified by my next post. The troll part is when he talks about harry potter happy endings, puts words in my mouth and dismisses some of my legitamate issues by saying "I don't know..." or by offering an explanation that actually is nonsensical. Trolls often post nonsense that is so unbelievably foolish that it incites anger and response.

That is not trolling.

Shingram
11-27-2012, 10:02 PM
Dude, just argue the points presented by him instead of getting personal. He questioned the reasoning behind your story preference, so prove him wrong!

Here i'll say it nicer. Could you just mind your own business?

Lowly Assassin
11-27-2012, 10:03 PM
On a double post side observation
It has been said many times and in different ways something like
As long as there has been humans
There has been assassins fighting templars
And it will never end
Therefore we can assume there will always be the opportunity of making assassin's creed games

Shingram
11-27-2012, 10:03 PM
[QUOTE=Shingram;8738958]

That is not trolling.

Yea actually it is. Putting words in peoples mouths and misquoting them in a misleading way sorry but you are old enough to know better. Regardless if you actually read you'd realize like I said from the beginning he is either posting froma position of extreme ignorance OR is a troll. it was actually a choice of two things so maybe you're right and he isn't a troll (which I said from the beginning) and maybe is just that ignorant

zhengyingli
11-27-2012, 10:05 PM
On a double post side observation
It has been said many times and in different ways something like
As long as there has been humans
There has been assassins fighting templars
And it will never end
Therefore we can assume there will always be the opportunity of making assassin's creed games
I'm worried by the OP saying Desmond's end had no discernible consequences. He saved the world, and unleashed Juno. Bad presentation or not, that's a lot of **** going down.

mustash
11-27-2012, 10:07 PM
I'm worried by the OP saying Desmond's end had no discernible consequences. He saved the world, and unleashed Juno. Bad presentation or not, that's a lot of **** going down.

The OP meant it in regards to what the conflict has been about. We've gone from enemy A wanting control over humanity to enemy B wanting control of humanity. All that's truly changed is who is leading the charge and not the nature of the fight. That was his beef.

psf22
11-27-2012, 10:08 PM
I think in a way the ending is supposed to come off like everything you (we, whether desmond, ancestors) did was 'literally' for nothing. Or status-quo as OP calls it.

I'm not going into discussion about the other details, because to me half of it was more of a plot device to further/broaden the story or i simply forgot about it, or just found it irrelevant to the main plot which basically is; everything was a huge distraction in order to be had.

My gripe with the handling of the story is mostly the execution of the ending, as it felt a bit lackluster.

Iamsosobad
11-27-2012, 10:09 PM
It felt like Ubisoft had a lot of big ideas, but then they didn't have the time or creative ability to flesh them out and then wrap them up in one game, so they just basically ignored them and made us get sidetracked once again with a whole new plot.

Shingram
11-27-2012, 10:10 PM
Look, you are both wasting your time getting into a feud. Misunderstanding or deliberate trolling aside (from either party) is completely besides the point of your topic.

I happen to agree with you Shing, I feel like they have used the story to string me along in playing the games (which themselves are fantastic) whilst dropping key plot points in DLC (such as the location of the Grand Temple (which to be fair was expanded upon in Revelations) or Lucy being a traitor (which was then sorta expanded upon in AC3).

I can understand the reasoning for this because not everyone is going to catch the glypths, or buy the DLC's but the practise itself of sticking what could be argued as critical story content into side missions or DLC is indeed, questionable. Adding insult to injury in this case, is when they promise to resolve plot archs 5 games long, they merely gloss over that resolution in favour of future sequels.

I mean, it was fascinating through most of the game, getting little glimpses of the meta arch involving TWCB, Desmond in the present, etc. It's the resolution or lack there of that concerns me. Vidic, Cross? Dead. Did we get a final speech from Vidic, the first antagonist you are introduced to in the Assassin's Creed saga? Nope. How about Cross? The only details you get on him are optional dialogues which I guess most players will miss, therefore missing just how important this guy was to the Templars.

All in all, this game did a poor job at resolving any of the lingering threads.

Exactly it is NOT about giving me a happy harry potter ending it is about resolving plot points in something resembling a well written conclusion. Arlington Road is a movie with an ending where the "bad guy wins" totally and yet I loved watching it. In Man on Fire the protagonist flat out dies but I LOVE that movie because it was a satisfying well written story where the protagonist at least seemed to effect a meaningful outcome. In AC3 the actions of the protagonist and therefore the player are rendered almost entirely useless.

Shingram
11-27-2012, 10:12 PM
The OP meant it in regards to what the conflict has been about. We've gone from enemy A wanting control over humanity to enemy B wanting control of humanity. All that's truly changed is who is leading the charge and not the nature of the fight. That was his beef.

Thanks I literally had to quote that twice and he still didnt get it lol he also doesn't seem to know what spoilers are when i took great care to avoid them

Lowly Assassin
11-27-2012, 10:16 PM
Without spoiling anything the Desmond scenes actually provided a lot of answers from previous games
The only questions I have not seen a direct answer too
But the reasons can be easily figured out or inferred
Are
Why did Lucy have too die (otherwise the cell would not have got a break from vidic / cross and eliminating the need for the acr multiplayer story, and would not have been able to reach the temple in ac3)
Also who is eve?
Are we to believe eve means the first woman
Is the Minerva
Or Juno (my personal opinion is that eve refers to Juno being the first woman not necessarily first human)
Or is that the plot opener for ac4 (really unlikely as desmond-s story is over therefore Desmond can not find eve)

mustash
11-27-2012, 10:17 PM
Exactly it is NOT about giving me a happy harry potter ending it is about resolving plot points in something resembling a well written conclusion. Arlington Road is a movie with an ending where the "bad guy wins" totally and yet I loved watching it. In Man on Fire the protagonist flat out dies but I LOVE that movie because it was a satisfying well written story where the protagonist at least seemed to effect a meaningful outcome. In AC3 the actions of the protagonist and therefore the player are rendered almost entirely useless.

And not just Desmond, in fact, the entire conflict since AC2 is rendered mute because apparently it's all too late to save the world. Whether from the solar flare or Juno. Which sounds cool on paper, but it also means that everything you did with Ezio (such as passing on Minervas message, hiding the apple and sending another message on from Jupiter) was meaningless. Connor to by extension, his fight to save his people was a ruse orchestrated/influenced by Juno in order to get a key (what is it with the past couple of AC's and keys!) for the inner door of the temple.

There just isn't any satisfaction in the meta story playing these games now (AC2-AC:R), when it was apparently already too late to have done anything.
Altair's struggle
Desmonds struggle
Ezios struggle
Connors struggle.
What was it all for? I remember Ezio speaking to Desmond in AC:R saying "Maybe you will be the one to make all this suffering worth something in the end"....turns out? Nope.

So theres that, but say you are of the camp that likes the idea that it was all for nothing, the least they could have done is honoured the characters it had created.

Shingram
11-27-2012, 10:24 PM
So theres that, but say you are of the camp that likes the idea that it was all for nothing, the least they could have done is honoured the characters it had created.

Yup

Shingram
11-27-2012, 10:25 PM
Let him rant - i disagreed is the only problem he has.

Unfortuntely this was another thing I never said that you ignorantly and incorrectly assumed. I'll let what I actually said in this thread speak for me. Thnx for the attempted derail though

zhengyingli
11-27-2012, 10:27 PM
Thanks I literally had to quote that twice and he still didnt get it lol he also doesn't seem to know what spoilers are when i took great care to avoid them
I got what you were saying, just disagreed how there was a lack of consequences in regarding to Desmond's action, including the nature of the fight. The history of the Assassins and Templar's attempted allegiance in the past was sprinkled throughout the story, and I simply don't see how Juno's presence wouldn't change any of the two Order's animosity against one another.

montagemik
11-27-2012, 10:29 PM
Unfortuntely this was another thing I never said that you ignorantly and incorrectly assumed. I'll let what I actually said in this thread speak for me. Thnx for the attempted derail though

Half this thread is you losing it bud. Only being happy with the people who agree with you .
Great discussion - 1 sided- but great.

dchil279
11-27-2012, 10:32 PM
It felt like Ubisoft had a lot of big ideas, but then they didn't have the time or creative ability to flesh them out and then wrap them up in one game, so they just basically ignored them and made us get sidetracked once again with a whole new plot.
this is what happened. The multiplayer probably added to this.

Layytez
11-27-2012, 10:36 PM
I find it weird how the end of ACR had more drama when that was when the world ended before. You would think such a ending would be a lot more entertaining then some words and a few pics. I wanted to see some bridges fall apart. Skyscrapers come crashing down and cars falling intro cracks in the ground. I felt no suspense at all which is something that is key in situations like this.

mustash
11-27-2012, 10:41 PM
I find it weird how the end of ACR had more drama when that was when the world ended before. You would think such a ending would be a lot more entertaining then some words and a few pics. I wanted to see some bridges fall apart. Skyscrapers come crashing down and cars falling intro cracks in the ground. I felt no suspense at all which is something that is key in situations like this.

Any kind of modern days consequences would have been nice to see. Like, at all. I mean, you are out and about in the present day world 3 times yet the impending solar flare and events have no consequences on your mission. You know the solar flare event is coming but there aren't any modern day ramifications. Supposing it was coming in increasing waves of solar flares, then there would have been a greater sense of urgency because you could see how the world was getting affected by the event. Instead, we get a few snippets of audio where it's just "some satelittles are failing" or right at the end, a pan around the world whilst the global aurora is happening. I don't know about you, but it made me feel disconnected from the supposed saving the world Desmond just did.

Layytez
11-27-2012, 10:49 PM
Any kind of modern days consequences would have been nice to see. Like, at all. I mean, you are out and about in the present day world 3 times yet the impending solar flare and events have no consequences on your mission. You know the solar flare event is coming but there aren't any modern day ramifications. Supposing it was coming in increasing waves of solar flares, then there would have been a greater sense of urgency because you could see how the world was getting affected by the event. Instead, we get a few snippets of audio where it's just "some satelittles are failing" or right at the end, a pan around the world whilst the global aurora is happening. I don't know about you, but it made me feel disconnected from the supposed saving the world Desmond just did.

That's exactly how I feel. You feel no actual sense of urgency in saving the world. I wanted people to run around and panic. I wanted to see tv broadcasts with people that are terrified. Everything was way too convenient especially when they were about the put the key in. If Juno planned everything so that they saved the world at the last second why were the so calm ? I'm also wondering why Desmond just agreed to Junos method without actually knowing what the **** she did. He blindly agreed without any actual evidence of how the world will be saved. Could have at least explained how his end will bring back Juno and how she saved the world.

Torvaldesq
11-27-2012, 11:13 PM
Lucy did not feel well-handled. At the end of Brotherhood, it was a big shock to see her get killed. I thought there'd be a good explanation behind it. But no... apparently she was a traitor. I played through the DLC's, saw the Subject 16 bits and pieces showing it. It felt shoehorned in. Like someone came up with the bright idea that she should be a traitor after they had decided on having her killed, even though previous to that there was nothing pointing in that direction.

Remember using Eagle Vision at the tail end of AC 1 and seeing her with a blue (allied) aura? Funny. Eagle vision is supposed to be this legacy of an extra sense that your lineage is able to use to discern things like the intent of people (friendly is blue, red is hostile) or to hone in on the person you are seeking (yellow aura). At the end of AC 1, that little Eagle Vision was just one more reminder (the game had already revealed it to you) that Lucy was loyal to the Assassins, not the Templars. Of course there were other things that made Lucy's turn even more ham-fisted. Remember Leila Marino? Probably not. A friend of Lucy whose death she investigated. Abstergo listed her death as a suicide, Lucy clearly didn't believe that was the true story, but was warned away from investigating her friend's death with a threat that if she didn't stop, she might end up like her friend. Of course, this is clearly the kind of thing that wins over loyalty, so Lucy obviously had to join the Templars.

I'm not saying they didn't make an effort to try and make it fit. But it really really came across as an idea that originated after AC 2, not something they had planned all along. When you're having a person who was a shocking traitor, you're always better off if it's planned from the start, so there can be little hints along way.

I was also disappointed in the lack of an explanation for how Juno is able to save the world. They weren't able to save their own people, they tried six methods that all failed. Yet Juno figured out how to what? Make method 1 or 2 work? Something else? The writers had a bit of a task in front of them, I know. ACR had told us that six methods were tried and failed. We knew that in the end of AC 3, something would have to succeed, and there would have to be a reason it was available now yet wasn't used by the first civilization. They were able to come up with six ideas that failed, but completely left the biggest, most important question a blank - what succeeded, and why was it available now? It is pretty clear at the end that Juno is coming back because she is using method 6, but method 6 was about avoiding death rather than preventing the sun's devastation, so there has to be a different explanation as to why the sun hasn't wiped the floor with the Earth.

It's even more irritating, given that Minerva is looking into the future to send a message to go to the Temple. The message she gives to Ezio mentions Desmond - so she's aware enough of the future to know the guy getting the message is Desmond, someone living in 2012. Yet it was too late to save the world in the way she wanted when Desmond reaches that place? She makes a snide comment about the Templars and Assassin's fighting too much over technology. She says, "You have wasted centuries." Well then what the hell was the point of your first message?! Why give a task to a guy who barely had any time to avert disaster when you know it's a task that needs a lot more time.

xx-pyro
11-27-2012, 11:18 PM
Eve was brought up in Liberations. The Templar satellite launch was not skipped, they didn't have the apple therefore they couldn't launch it, a simple logical progression there. Can't be bothered to see if those have been answered considering that all this thread consists of is OP ranting at people who don't agree with him/her. They promised to end Desmond's story, they did just that. No more, no less. Could it have had a better presentation? Certainly, I agree it wasn't presented well, but the narrative itself was fine.

D.I.D.
11-27-2012, 11:19 PM
But AC Story is far from over & much deeper than it seems you thought it was.
The best is yet to come - & in a sense we've only just finished our induction process.



Awww. You think AC's story is deep, bless your heart.

The "best" is not yet to come. The end is yet to come. It's never going to be good unless they bring in proper writers. If this was a TV show, it would have been canned ages ago.

We're in this uncomfortable middle ground between "it's only a game, so the story doesn't have to be great or well written" and "it's more like interactive fiction than a game, so it doesn't matter than the gameplay is getting worse". If the latter is true, then the writing needs to be top notch and it's nowhere near that right now. With the amount of money riding on this series, you'd think hiring competent writers would be an easy addition to a well-made game that's fun to play.

I suspect that the ending was meant to be different to this, and that Ubi's moves towards AC movies has changed that. We were supposed to see an end to Desmond's story, but that's not exactly what's happened. It's almost as though the Hollywood partners expressed surprise that they would be expected to cast a big name lead actor in a finite role, and asked if it could be open. It feels like Ubi is playing the same line as it is with Connor, that he might appear in more games if the audience wants it. Perhaps Ubi thinks the game audience would soften to Desmond during AC3?

The structure of AC's story reminds me of bloated software. A company will be tempted to play it safe by adding shell upon shell of their successful product, despite worsening quality. It takes guts to start from scratch. Anybody with any sense would consider a reboot at this point. The modern day story is an albatross, and should be used sparingly, if at all or it will ruin the whole series. It does not need to be in every game. Some games could just be set in a point in history, with no animus and no 2013 calamity: maybe even no PoE from time to time. Just make a tight political story in history, and make mission design lead the narrative.

AC3 provided a beautiful world this year, certainly the most enjoyable game world I've ever played in terms of exploration. I can happily enjoy a big game world even if the gameplay is lacking; I wouldn't necessarily recommend Fable III if I was reviewing it, but I did enjoy it nonetheless, and AC3 was considerably better than that. However, as a game about being an assassin, Dishonored kicked Assassin's Creed to pieces this year.

mustash
11-27-2012, 11:32 PM
Lucy did not feel well-handled. At the end of Brotherhood, it was a big shock to see her get killed. I thought there'd be a good explanation behind it. But no... apparently she was a traitor. I played through the DLC's, saw the Subject 16 bits and pieces showing it. It felt shoehorned in. Like someone came up with the bright idea that she should be a traitor after they had decided on having her killed, even though previous to that there was nothing pointing in that direction.

Remember using Eagle Vision at the tail end of AC 1 and seeing her with a blue (allied) aura? Funny. Eagle vision is supposed to be this legacy of an extra sense that your lineage is able to use to discern things like the intent of people (friendly is blue, red is hostile) or to hone in on the person you are seeking (yellow aura). At the end of AC 1, that little Eagle Vision was just one more reminder (the game had already revealed it to you) that Lucy was loyal to the Assassins, not the Templars. Of course there were other things that made Lucy's turn even more ham-fisted. Remember Leila Marino? Probably not. A friend of Lucy whose death she investigated. Abstergo listed her death as a suicide, Lucy clearly didn't believe that was the true story, but was warned away from investigating her friend's death with a threat that if she didn't stop, she might end up like her friend. Of course, this is clearly the kind of thing that wins over loyalty, so Lucy obviously had to join the Templars.

I'm not saying they didn't make an effort to try and make it fit. But it really really came across as an idea that originated after AC 2, not something they had planned all along. When you're having a person who was a shocking traitor, you're always better off if it's planned from the start, so there can be little hints along way.

I was also disappointed in the lack of an explanation for how Juno is able to save the world. They weren't able to save their own people, they tried six methods that all failed. Yet Juno figured out how to what? Make method 1 or 2 work? Something else? The writers had a bit of a task in front of them, I know. ACR had told us that six methods were tried and failed. We knew that in the end of AC 3, something would have to succeed, and there would have to be a reason it was available now yet wasn't used by the first civilization. They were able to come up with six ideas that failed, but completely left the biggest, most important question a blank - what succeeded, and why was it available now? It is pretty clear at the end that Juno is coming back because she is using method 6, but method 6 was about avoiding death rather than preventing the sun's devastation, so there has to be a different explanation as to why the sun hasn't wiped the floor with the Earth.

It's even more irritating, given that Minerva is looking into the future to send a message to go to the Temple. The message she gives to Ezio mentions Desmond - so she's aware enough of the future to know the guy getting the message is Desmond, someone living in 2012. Yet it was too late to save the world in the way she wanted when Desmond reaches that place? She makes a snide comment about the Templars and Assassin's fighting too much over technology. She says, "You have wasted centuries." Well then what the hell was the point of your first message?! Why give a task to a guy who barely had any time to avert disaster when you know it's a task that needs a lot more time.

This, a thousand times this. So many inconsistencies, retcons and wonky story explanations for things that were set up in past games. It's nothing new of course for this series post AC2 but there you go. Writing any kind of sprawling fiction must be hard to keep track of, but it seems that the fans know it well enough and they have a wiki to consult made by the fans themselves that ought to have helped them when it came to resolving lingering plot threads.

TWCB used to be this cool plot point, whereby mythological gods of antiquety were confirmed to have been this race of advanced sentient beings. They have since devolved into a bumbling collective of highly convoluted nonsense. Minerva, a being who can predict the future to the point she can see a man that wouldn't be born for 75,000 years, can seen that the end of the world is coming again, fails to convey to Ezio or Desmond that they didn't have time to waste nor that Juno was still alive (in some form). Jupiter, who apparently can't do math, also doesn't inform Desmond it's too late to save the world and sends him right into the arms of Juno. He tells him to pass words from his head into his hands to open the way, when Juno tells him that someone will accompany Desmond through the gate. The conflicting messages from the triad thus far have provided me nothing but frustration and turned an otherwise cool story backdrop into something that feels almost tacked on or forced.

mustash
11-27-2012, 11:45 PM
Sorry if you were expecting some kind of Harry potter type plotline here - But AC Story is far from over & much deeper than it seems you thought it was.
The best is yet to come - & in a sense we've only just finished our induction process.

You can't have the END - UNTIL THE END
True story bro - seriously.

We haven't just finished our induction process, we are 5 games into the series now, with numerous comic books, a film coming, novelisations and more out there. We are so far passed anything that could be called a beginning it's silly. The game universe itself has long since been set up and fleshed out. What we ought to have been getting at this stage is lots of story resolution and instead thanks to the high success of the series, we're getting a stalling effect with how things progress. It should be obvious to anyone that the story, the meta story anyway, has been prolonged. Corey May when asked about what he thought about the Ezio saga and the story in general, said it got "deeper" which is his way of saying without putting words in his mouth, extended beyond his original vision.

At this stage however, i'm used to the story getting more convoluted and unresolved with each game that goes by. They wanted to refresh the AC experience (according to the marketting anyway) with AC3 and what I feel we have instead is more of the same (as far as the overarching narrative is concerned)

psf22
11-27-2012, 11:50 PM
Awww. You think AC's story is deep, bless your heart.

The "best" is not yet to come. The end is yet to come. It's never going to be good unless they bring in proper writers. If this was a TV show, it would have been canned ages ago.

We're in this uncomfortable middle ground between "it's only a game, so the story doesn't have to be great or well written" and "it's more like interactive fiction than a game, so it doesn't matter than the gameplay is getting worse". If the latter is true, then the writing needs to be top notch and it's nowhere near that right now. With the amount of money riding on this series, you'd think hiring competent writers would be an easy addition to a well-made game that's fun to play.



So by 'your logic' we should compare it to TV series Lost?
Wait, Lost wasn't canceled, nevermind. (The rest should speak for itself)

Gameplay > Story

rocketxsurgeon
11-27-2012, 11:53 PM
Lucy did not feel well-handled. At the end of Brotherhood, it was a big shock to see her get killed. I thought there'd be a good explanation behind it. But no... apparently she was a traitor. I played through the DLC's, saw the Subject 16 bits and pieces showing it. It felt shoehorned in. Like someone came up with the bright idea that she should be a traitor after they had decided on having her killed, even though previous to that there was nothing pointing in that direction.

Remember using Eagle Vision at the tail end of AC 1 and seeing her with a blue (allied) aura? Funny. Eagle vision is supposed to be this legacy of an extra sense that your lineage is able to use to discern things like the intent of people (friendly is blue, red is hostile) or to hone in on the person you are seeking (yellow aura). At the end of AC 1, that little Eagle Vision was just one more reminder (the game had already revealed it to you) that Lucy was loyal to the Assassins, not the Templars. Of course there were other things that made Lucy's turn even more ham-fisted. Remember Leila Marino? Probably not. A friend of Lucy whose death she investigated. Abstergo listed her death as a suicide, Lucy clearly didn't believe that was the true story, but was warned away from investigating her friend's death with a threat that if she didn't stop, she might end up like her friend. Of course, this is clearly the kind of thing that wins over loyalty, so Lucy obviously had to join the Templars.

I'm not saying they didn't make an effort to try and make it fit. But it really really came across as an idea that originated after AC 2, not something they had planned all along. When you're having a person who was a shocking traitor, you're always better off if it's planned from the start, so there can be little hints along way.

I was also disappointed in the lack of an explanation for how Juno is able to save the world. They weren't able to save their own people, they tried six methods that all failed. Yet Juno figured out how to what? Make method 1 or 2 work? Something else? The writers had a bit of a task in front of them, I know. ACR had told us that six methods were tried and failed. We knew that in the end of AC 3, something would have to succeed, and there would have to be a reason it was available now yet wasn't used by the first civilization. They were able to come up with six ideas that failed, but completely left the biggest, most important question a blank - what succeeded, and why was it available now? It is pretty clear at the end that Juno is coming back because she is using method 6, but method 6 was about avoiding death rather than preventing the sun's devastation, so there has to be a different explanation as to why the sun hasn't wiped the floor with the Earth.

It's even more irritating, given that Minerva is looking into the future to send a message to go to the Temple. The message she gives to Ezio mentions Desmond - so she's aware enough of the future to know the guy getting the message is Desmond, someone living in 2012. Yet it was too late to save the world in the way she wanted when Desmond reaches that place? She makes a snide comment about the Templars and Assassin's fighting too much over technology. She says, "You have wasted centuries." Well then what the hell was the point of your first message?! Why give a task to a guy who barely had any time to avert disaster when you know it's a task that needs a lot more time.

I really like this post, i agree with it completely.
What really irritated me was the way Lucy's death was handled. Game after game, i waited to know more about what happened, but nothing.
No explanation.

There are a lot of loose ends still to tie up.
And given that i've finished AC3 (an ending to trilogy) i am still waiting on answers.
I'm pretty sure that shouldn't be the case.

mustash
11-28-2012, 12:02 AM
So by 'your logic' we should compare it to TV series Lost?
Wait, Lost wasn't canceled, nevermind. (The rest should speak for itself)

Gameplay > Story

If we are going to compare LOST with Assassin's Creed in terms of story, LOST actually has the upper hand. (incoming unpopular opinion)

LOST had a sprawling, in depth mythology that was answered both inside the show and extended, outside the show in other things (such as commentaries, featurettes on DVD's/Blu-Rays, etc). But supposing you didn't like the answers and felt it was too convuluted, they at least honoured the characters and resolved their relationships in a satisfying way. In this way, LOST (so far) has the upper hand.

Asassin's Creed has an in depth backstory and meta story, that spans not only the games but comics, novels and soon a film. There has been partial answers to mythological questions but some of the key figures involved in that mythology have been neglected, retconned or dealt with without sufficient "screen time". The main focus of the story is done very well (that of the ancestors) but it's meta-story and any characters involved in that meta-story is sorely lacking in resolution of any kind.

D.I.D.
11-28-2012, 12:03 AM
So by 'your logic' we should compare it to TV series Lost?
Wait, Lost wasn't canceled, nevermind. (The rest should speak for itself)

Gameplay > Story

People enjoyed the writing and performances on Lost. It didn't push my buttons, but I could see why it kept going - they were piling on more intrigue, not simply more... stuff. Dozens of other shows got canned much more quickly, and it's easy to forget they even happened because it happens so much. Nobody will recall 666 Park Avenue in five years time, maybe less. If you want an analogy for AC, Dollhouse would be a good comparison - a secret society story involving a young protag plugged into a mind altering machine, killed during season two.

As I explained in my post, I also think gameplay is more important than story, if push comes to shove. That's why I say Dishonored beat AC at its own game this year, and why I said AC's gameplay is getting worse. However, AC's makers clearly think story is more important than gameplay, but they're not managing to fulfil that approach either. The potential is there for AC to be a so-so game but an amazing game experience, if the writing is significantly improved and Ubi has the will to hire better people rather than sticking with the people who have captained the ship so far. It'll still be worth playing even if they continue with the quite high (but hamstrung) standards of AC3, but it would be a shame if they settled for that.

rocketxsurgeon
11-28-2012, 12:18 AM
So by 'your logic' we should compare it to TV series Lost?
Wait, Lost wasn't canceled, nevermind. (The rest should speak for itself)

Gameplay > Story

I think it really depends on the individual.
Some people just want to play the game for the mechanics, but some people like to connect to the characters and become involved in the story.
It's difficult to please everyone though.
Depends what you're looking for from a game.

psf22
11-28-2012, 12:54 AM
I think it really depends on the individual.
Some people just want to play the game for the mechanics, but some people like to connect to the characters and become involved in the story.
It's difficult to please everyone though.
Depends what you're looking for from a game.

^^That's my point.







To me games are still about immersion, entertainment, mechanics aka gameplay

Poodle_of_Doom
11-28-2012, 05:30 AM
For me, and I think many other fans, it was never about the game. It was about the story line, and the characters. I always loved the depth of it all. Being able to hold a conversation about a great many things far beyound my scope of intelect. That said, I feel that they always left me with more questions than answers, and it has long been time to wrap things up. This was the time to make it happen. They could of wrapped everything up, and still ended it with Juno turned loose on the world, yet they didn't. This series has quickly devolved into a hack and slash game.

D.I.D.
11-28-2012, 05:48 AM
For me, and I think many other fans, it was never about the game. It was about the story line, and the characters. I always loved the depth of it all. Being able to hold a conversation about a great many things far beyound my scope of intelect. That said, I feel that they always left me with more questions than answers, and it has long been time to wrap things up. This was the time to make it happen. They could of wrapped everything up, and still ended it with Juno turned loose on the world, yet they didn't. This series has quickly devolved into a hack and slash game.

It doesn't need to be a straight choice between one thing or the other, but most games don't have this kind of budget.

There is a technique used in comics writing which is credited to one of the big DC Comics writers (I think Paul Levitz, but I'm not 100% on that). It's a system that was designed for writing huge sprawling stories involving lots of characters and plotlines. You could use it to make a Pulp Fiction-style plot, but it was intended to make perpetual stories like Superman work, and still provide arcs and payoff within it. It's partly a conceptual idea, but can also be plotted as a diagram of overlapping long bricks of story, several of which can be pulled to end together when necessary while leaving others to continue.

That's the illusion AC desperately needs, because I don't think many people believe in the existence of a solid pre-planned overarching story at this point. The modern day thing is only there to make AC[next] happen, and that's okay, but that's transparently clear now to an uncomfortable degree. It's badly structured, and it's nothing but cliffhanger.

Poodle_of_Doom
11-28-2012, 06:13 AM
I really think that they need to do something like they did with the Heroes TV series, which sounds similar to what your describing.

vulgarhythms
11-28-2012, 07:48 AM
I dunno. I felt like the ending to this kind of matched up my feelings with the endings of the other three. That kind of feeling where it's like, "Oh, God. I have to have more," while simultaneously thinking, "...So what just happened anyway?" Remember AC1? End of the game, you're left stuck in a room staring at symbols a dead guy left on the walls in his own blood. Same vibe here--except on a more global scale, apparently.

Poodle_of_Doom
11-28-2012, 08:05 AM
But the problem lies in the fact that with the present story line, we should have an answer for the majority of our questions. It's okay to have some for the story as it is going forward, but the current storyline should be done with.

Assassin_M
11-28-2012, 08:06 AM
But the problem lies in the fact that with the present story line, we should have an answer for the majority of our questions. It's okay to have some for the story as it is going forward, but the current storyline should be done with.
It`s not done with ??

Poodle_of_Doom
11-28-2012, 08:07 AM
I'm sure they'll be making more games.

Assassin_M
11-28-2012, 08:09 AM
I'm sure they'll be making more games.
I know that..

But that was not my question.. I was asking this: what was not answered ??

Poodle_of_Doom
11-28-2012, 08:14 AM
Well... aside from what we saw S16 do for Desmond in the Animus, what was his role in things? What great mystery was he supposed to reveal? What was with the glyphs, and the whole thing about Adam and Eve? How about the speech about "...the sun, your son"? What was that?

twenty_glyphs
11-28-2012, 08:20 AM
I think it really depends on the individual.
Some people just want to play the game for the mechanics, but some people like to connect to the characters and become involved in the story.
It's difficult to please everyone though.
Depends what you're looking for from a game.

Considering this was the fifth game in an established franchise that had gained lots of dedicated fans based on how its gameplay tied into its characters, story and premise, I was kind of looking for that same element in Assassin's Creed 3. Call me crazy, but I expected the franchise to keep doing what it's always done in fresh and interesting ways, not suddenly treat the story and modern-day plot as an afterthought. It's not just difficult to please everyone, it's impossible. That's why I think a successful franchise should continue to do things that made it successful in the first place. They should focus on what they were doing well instead of trying to cater to everyone. By treating the story as an afterthought and making my time with it over the past few years feel like a waste, they've alienated the former huge fan in me.

I play games mainly for the gameplay, but the ones I enjoy, remember and connect with the most are the ones that tie their gameplay to a story or premise really well. That's what immerses me in a game, not just the game mechanics. Assassin's Creed did this increasingly well through the first three games, then started to falter with Revelations and finally fell off a cliff in AC3. In contrast, Portal 2, the Batman Arkham games, and Alan Wake all sucked me into their gameplay more and more because of their stories, environments and characters. I just think without the same kind of attention to the story, Assassin's Creed's gameplay is not enough to hold it up as a great experience anymore, and it just becomes a very generic action-adventure game.

@DoubleclickFT: Excellent point about comic book story plots. That's the perfect concept to fit what Assassin's Creed should be doing since they obviously intend to bleed it dry. Comic series go on for decades, yet story arcs always have real endings and some kind of resolution, even if it's only temporary. Then they move on to the next story arc the next month. They are also constantly setting up new plot points and mysteries that may develop into huge stories months later or may just fizzle out. AC3 should have concluded the current story while setting up the future stories in the background, and maybe teasing them just a bit in an epilogue. Instead, it feels like I just finished part 5 of a 10 part story, and it still hasn't gotten off the ground.

Assassin_M
11-28-2012, 08:26 AM
Well... aside from what we saw S16 do for Desmond in the Animus, what was his role in things? What great mystery was he supposed to reveal? What was with the glyphs, and the whole thing about Adam and Eve? How about the speech about "...the sun, your son"? What was that?
Well 16 acted as a tangible guide to the non-tangible direction pointed to by Juno..Clay was just another Pawn in Juno`s plan for Vindication.

The Glyphs and rifts were simply a catalogue of History about the war between the Assassins and Templars. this was a result of Clay`s hacking into Abstergo Mainframes and gathering Information, but that is just in part, the other part is that Clay explored the lives of dozens of his Ancestors, so his Information was from probably there as well. The truth video at the end was a continuation of the Glyphs; revealing what started the Human-First Civ War, again, History.

Now that Speech. You do not have to believe anything I might say or even be convinced, but this is my take on it...It`s all completely bogus:p I mean seriously, Clay was a mess. His speech made no sense..

Just my take on it

Poodle_of_Doom
11-28-2012, 08:49 AM
I don't know about that though, because he seemed pretty with it when we were trapped in the animus. At that, don't you find it kind of odd that the woman with the baby in the cut scenes shown to us by Jupiter happens to look remarkably like Eve.... Which brings me to the next question. Why would Eve steal a POE, and end up starting the war?

Assassin_M
11-28-2012, 08:53 AM
I don't know about that though, because he seemed pretty with it when we were trapped in the animus. At that, don't you find it kind of odd that the woman with the baby in the cut scenes shown to us by Jupiter happens to look remarkably like Eve.... Which brings me to the next question. Why would Eve steal a POE, and end up starting the war?
you`re putting too much thought on things that probably are not very important..

Also, and I know this is a point of conflict, Judging by the ending of AC III Liberation, the War seems to have been set up by Minerva, Juno and Jupiter (Juno broke away from them later, though)

pirate1802
11-28-2012, 12:17 PM
Also, and I know this is a point of conflict, Judging by the ending of AC III Liberation, the War seems to have been set up by Minerva, Juno and Jupiter (Juno broke away from them later, though)

So you mean these three wanted to free the humans?

twenty_glyphs
11-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Now that Speech. You do not have to believe anything I might say or even be convinced, but this is my take on it...It`s all completely bogus:p I mean seriously, Clay was a mess. His speech made no sense..

This is looking more and more likely, and it is incredibly dishonest storytelling if that's the case. So our reward for finishing all the Rifts in ACB was this really cool, atmospheric Virtual Reality climbing puzzle where we got to meet Subject 16 himself, who seemed to be trying to tell Desmond something really important. Not only that, what he was saying referenced mysteries explored and revealed in the previous game. And all along, they just meant for it to be the crazy ravings of a madman with absolutely no intentions of providing some sort of payoff? "Sorry, that big interesting mystery was just a lie! How d'ya like them apples?" Why would I ever be interested in any new mysteries they tease after being treated that way?

SteelCity999
11-28-2012, 05:26 PM
This is looking more and more likely, and it is incredibly dishonest storytelling if that's the case. So our reward for finishing all the Rifts in ACB was this really cool, atmospheric Virtual Reality climbing puzzle where we got to meet Subject 16 himself, who seemed to be trying to tell Desmond something really important. Not only that, what he was saying referenced mysteries explored and revealed in the previous game. And all along, they just meant for it to be the crazy ravings of a madman with absolutely no intentions of providing some sort of payoff? "Sorry, that big interesting mystery was just a lie! How d'ya like them apples?" Why would I ever be interested in any new mysteries they tease after being treated that way?


I think the only way to salvage the story is if they spend the next series of games exploring what S16 was talking about, specifically the memories he saw, as a way of defeating Juno (assuming she is really up to no good). I didn't mind the ending of AC3 per say, but I think the entire game's problem and now the series problem is the fact that they have left so many dots unconnected to each other, the story looks like a two year old scribbling on scratch paper. We are left with having to assume to many things and for there to be so many differing opinions on the forums is proof that they failed as storytellers in making a cohesive story. If this was truly a finale for Desmond, we should all be able to agree on what happened with all of the various plot drivers. Yes we can argue motivations and such but there are way too many holes and way too many leaps of faith to take in the story.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a series of games delving into what S16 saw in order to defeat Juno. If they had any descency, this is probably the only option they have to make the series makes sense. Otherwise, like you say, it just dishonest, lazy and overall bad storytelling.

I almost feel like the "dream team" for the AC series is just gone. They may have alot of good quality people working there who are good at what they do but I think some of the key people who kept the franchise together and made it coherent, added the magic so to speak, are not there anymore. AC1, AC2 and AC:B were all coherent and connected. They made sense in every aspect of being and the franchise has been straying ever since. Yeah, the gameplay wasn't perfect but you could tell they were a game, a bunch of pieces purposefully put together in a specific way to get a wel thought out complete whole. Even when you take the three games separately and then add them together, you feel like they are a whole. AC3 feels more like someone went into the kitchen and just started throwing in ingredients wih the bigger is better mentallity, not caring for the what the end result tastes like. It definitely does not fit together with the others.

Of course, I need to add, there is alot of good things they did and the game is not bad. BUT they squandered ALOT and I think they are taking things for granted now with the franchise.

Poodle_of_Doom
11-28-2012, 06:20 PM
I have to agree with the above two posts, particularly with Twenty Glyphs. There are so many loose ends, that it seems unlikely that I've over thinking them. I imagine they all had a point at one time or another, but just didn't get tied up.

twenty_glyphs
11-28-2012, 06:58 PM
I think the only way to salvage the story is if they spend the next series of games exploring what S16 was talking about, specifically the memories he saw, as a way of defeating Juno (assuming she is really up to no good). I didn't mind the ending of AC3 per say, but I think the entire game's problem and now the series problem is the fact that they have left so many dots unconnected to each other, the story looks like a two year old scribbling on scratch paper. We are left with having to assume to many things and for there to be so many differing opinions on the forums is proof that they failed as storytellers in making a cohesive story. If this was truly a finale for Desmond, we should all be able to agree on what happened with all of the various plot drivers. Yes we can argue motivations and such but there are way too many holes and way too many leaps of faith to take in the story.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind seeing a series of games delving into what S16 saw in order to defeat Juno. If they had any descency, this is probably the only option they have to make the series makes sense. Otherwise, like you say, it just dishonest, lazy and overall bad storytelling.

I almost feel like the "dream team" for the AC series is just gone. They may have alot of good quality people working there who are good at what they do but I think some of the key people who kept the franchise together and made it coherent, added the magic so to speak, are not there anymore. AC1, AC2 and AC:B were all coherent and connected. They made sense in every aspect of being and the franchise has been straying ever since. Yeah, the gameplay wasn't perfect but you could tell they were a game, a bunch of pieces purposefully put together in a specific way to get a wel thought out complete whole. Even when you take the three games separately and then add them together, you feel like they are a whole. AC3 feels more like someone went into the kitchen and just started throwing in ingredients wih the bigger is better mentallity, not caring for the what the end result tastes like. It definitely does not fit together with the others.

Of course, I need to add, there is alot of good things they did and the game is not bad. BUT they squandered ALOT and I think they are taking things for granted now with the franchise.

Your analogy of dots that aren't connected is perfect for what has happened to the story. A good mystery will throw out a lot of dots, but in the end they will draw lines that connect a lot of those dots to the ending or some kind of climax. Then the audience should be able to say "I should have seen that coming!", even if there weren't really enough clues for that to have been possible. I don't expect every single dot to be connected, but enough of them should connect back to the climax that you can see it and understand them. Unconnected dots should be side elements and other mysteries that fans can debate about, but should not be central elements of the plot. They can even be seeds for future stories, as long as they're not presented as being centrally important to the current story. You're right that the fact that we're debating what has even happened in the story is a huge indicator that they have failed at telling a cohesive story. We should be debating the meaning of things and character motivations, not struggling to fit the pieces of the story together ourselves after 5 games.

I completely agree that I don't really mind the ending to AC3 on paper, but because so many of the elements of the story feel so unconnected, it came off very bad. It also just wasn't explored enough and rushed through. I would like to see a good exploration of what Subject 16 saw and how it might help defeat Juno. If it can start connecting the dots in the story and even open up new mysteries and directions, it would be fun. I'm not hopeful though, because they seem to have tossed him aside with Revelations.

I completely agree that a lot of the dream team of the series is gone. Sure, Corey May is still there, but we have no way of knowing how much he was really responsible for. I think it was really Patrice's baby, and he's gone now, likely along with the heart and soul of the series. For all we know, he could have been the one pushing the central premise of the series, and the writers took that and ran with it to create the cohesion of the first 3 games. I also know other people have moved on to other projects within Ubisoft, like Patrick Plourde and Jeffrey Yohalem to Far Cry 3. It really irks me that Far Cry 3 looks amazing and that a lot of that team could have really helped make AC3 the game it should have been.

infamous_ezio
11-28-2012, 07:08 PM
If they completely forget about everything 16 said, then no doubt they will use the excuse "yeah he was crazy, forget what he said"... But if clay was actually trying to tell desmond about eve and juno's allegiance, why wouldn't he just say this when desmond was in his coma?

They have made their story way too convenient and at the same time failed to connect the dots... this story is actually so silly...

The ending wasn't bad, but it was just very underwhelming. my reaction was literally "that's it...? 5 years and that's what i get?"

Assassin_M
11-28-2012, 10:14 PM
So you mean these three wanted to free the humans?
Yes..

It is hinted at in AC III when Minerva says "Our gift to them" and confirmed with the final Cutscene in AC III:L.

It`s probably like this. There was a driving force for them to free the Humans (My guessing would be that it was a part of their plan to save the world) so that instead of one effort to stop it, they`d have more than one and that second effort would be the Humans.

Juno; however, initially conflicts this and probably pleads that Humans are Animals (or some other derogatory term) but in time she feigns agreement with Minerva and Jupiter. So at this time they`d already discovered that the earth would have a second disaster after this one and also, their effort to free humanity was most likely a desperate one, as in AFTER their solutions had failed and had been abandoned.

Now what caused Human Victory ? How can a slave race outnumber its creator ? the 4th Solution. Juno explained that If many Humans, using the Piece of Eden, think the same thing, it`ll be a reality. So they sought to create more Humans to ensure this succeeds, but it does not so they create more Humans and in time, the Humans outnumbered their creators and so the trio of Minerva, Juno and Tinia formulated the Plan of war to free the Human race with an assured result of Human Victory.

twenty_glyphs
11-29-2012, 01:11 AM
Yes..

It is hinted at in AC III when Minerva says "Our gift to them" and confirmed with the final Cutscene in AC III:L.

It`s probably like this. There was a driving force for them to free the Humans (My guessing would be that it was a part of their plan to save the world) so that instead of one effort to stop it, they`d have more than one and that second effort would be the Humans.

Juno; however, initially conflicts this and probably pleads that Humans are Animals (or some other derogatory term) but in time she feigns agreement with Minerva and Jupiter. So at this time they`d already discovered that the earth would have a second disaster after this one and also, their effort to free humanity was most likely a desperate one, as in AFTER their solutions had failed and had been abandoned.

Now what caused Human Victory ? How can a slave race outnumber its creator ? the 4th Solution. Juno explained that If many Humans, using the Piece of Eden, think the same thing, it`ll be a reality. So they sought to create more Humans to ensure this succeeds, but it does not so they create more Humans and in time, the Humans outnumbered their creators and so the trio of Minerva, Juno and Tinia formulated the Plan of war to free the Human race with an assured result of Human Victory.

Yeah, Juno said the world had known nothing but heartache since their kind left, and Minerva said "Our gift to them.", as if to mean the freedom for humanity to choose for themselves. The problem with freeing humans as part of a plan to save the world from the solar flare is that Minerva already said in AC2 that they were so busy with earthly concerns that they failed to look to the heavens and notice the flare until it was too late to stop it. Everything has lead us to believe that the reason TWCB couldn't save themselves was because they were preoccupied with the war against humanity and got a late start on stopping the catastrophe.

It's looking more and more like a member of TWCB (the serpent from the Biblical Garden of Eden) gave Eve the Apple she had in the Truth video and helped to set humanity free. It's even possible they specifically engineered her and/or Adam's DNA to cross-breed them with TWCB so they would be more likely to survive and lead humanity to victory. I'm still pissed the hint at this comes in a game for the Vita instead of in the proper game.

Assassin_M
11-29-2012, 01:50 AM
Yeah, Juno said the world had known nothing but heartache since their kind left, and Minerva said "Our gift to them.", as if to mean the freedom for humanity to choose for themselves. The problem with freeing humans as part of a plan to save the world from the solar flare is that Minerva already said in AC2 that they were so busy with earthly concerns that they failed to look to the heavens and notice the flare until it was too late to stop it. Everything has lead us to believe that the reason TWCB couldn't save themselves was because they were preoccupied with the war against humanity and got a late start on stopping the catastrophe.

It's looking more and more like a member of TWCB (the serpent from the Biblical Garden of Eden) gave Eve the Apple she had in the Truth video and helped to set humanity free. It's even possible they specifically engineered her and/or Adam's DNA to cross-breed them with TWCB so they would be more likely to survive and lead humanity to victory. I'm still pissed the hint at this comes in a game for the Vita instead of in the proper game.
No, the hint for all of this comes in AC III, the confirmation comes in the Vita..

Still have a right to be pissed, though..

Poodle_of_Doom
11-29-2012, 05:37 AM
How so? Could you explain it for those of us who haven't played the Vita game?

Assassin_M
11-29-2012, 05:40 AM
How so? Could you explain it for those of us who haven't played the Vita game?
The Final Scene of the Vita game shows Aveline activating a TWCB Disk that she obtained earlier.. The Disk shows a Hologram of Tinia, Juno and Minerva discussing how the Humans will be free and they then choose Eve as the one who will lead them through..

twenty_glyphs
11-29-2012, 07:13 AM
The Final Scene of the Vita game shows Aveline activating a TWCB Disk that she obtained earlier.. The Disk shows a Hologram of Tinia, Juno and Minerva discussing how the Humans will be free and they then choose Eve as the one who will lead them through..

I'm not so sure the First Civilization people shown in Liberation's end are Tinia, Juno and Minerva. There are three of them, but you can't see their faces and they all appear to be women wearing the same basic dress/gown. The female voice sounds sort of like Juno, but not exactly to me. There is a male voice in the video, but it sounds absolutely nothing like Tinia from Revelations — it's much higher-pitched.

Assassin_M
11-29-2012, 07:15 AM
I'm not so sure the First Civilization people shown in Liberation's end are Tinia, Juno and Minerva. There are three of them, but you can't see their faces and they all appear to be women wearing the same basic dress/gown. The female voice sounds sort of like Juno, but not exactly to me. There is a male voice in the video, but it sounds absolutely nothing like Tinia from Revelations — it's much higher-pitched.
If you pay more attention you`d see that it`s Tinia..

And changing voices...Really ?? Come now. Clay, Altair, William...need I go on ? and That could`v been a Younger Tinia, really..

Poodle_of_Doom
11-29-2012, 07:37 AM
The Final Scene of the Vita game shows Aveline activating a TWCB Disk that she obtained earlier.. The Disk shows a Hologram of Tinia, Juno and Minerva discussing how the Humans will be free and they then choose Eve as the one who will lead them through..

And, if you don't mind me asking, who is Aveline?

Assassin_M
11-29-2012, 07:45 AM
And, if you don't mind me asking, who is Aveline?
The Protagonist of Assassins Creed III: Liberation

twenty_glyphs
11-29-2012, 04:58 PM
If you pay more attention you`d see that it`s Tinia..

And changing voices...Really ?? Come now. Clay, Altair, William...need I go on ? and That could`v been a Younger Tinia, really..

So a younger adult still has a much higher pitched voice than the booming voice Tinia had in Revelations? But you are right, they've been changing voices AND faces willy-nilly for the past 2 games now. I seriously doubt they put as much thought into the voice as you just did if the voice in Liberation is supposed to be Tinia. But this just confirms how poorly they've been handling everything. The story's a convoluted mess, and I can't even expect characters to look or sound the same from one game to the next, so how am I supposed to keep up with them? I'm done trying.

Poodle_of_Doom
11-29-2012, 05:23 PM
So a younger adult still has a much higher pitched voice than the booming voice Tinia had in Revelations? But you are right, they've been changing voices AND faces willy-nilly for the past 2 games now. I seriously doubt they put as much thought into the voice as you just did if the voice in Liberation is supposed to be Tinia. But this just confirms how poorly they've been handling everything. The story's a convoluted mess, and I can't even expect characters to look or sound the same from one game to the next, so how am I supposed to keep up with them? I'm done trying.

So let me ask you this. If they got the original AC team togethor to create one last AC game that they guarenteed would tie everything togethor, and clean up all the loose ends, would you buy it?

twenty_glyphs
11-29-2012, 06:25 PM
So let me ask you this. If they got the original AC team togethor to create one last AC game that they guarenteed would tie everything togethor, and clean up all the loose ends, would you buy it?

Only after fan reaction to the game had confirmed that it did that in some form of satisfying way. I'm done believing big claims made by Ubisoft, especially when it comes to character/story development. Revelations made several big claims about its story too, and that fell pretty flat for me. I'll be following whatever the next AC game is for info and details to see what's up, but I certainly won't be pre-ordering. This franchise is now in wait and see mode when it comes to purchasing for me. It's not even the money that matters to me as much as the wasted time and disappointment.

tonerton
11-29-2012, 10:44 PM
Your entire post shows a severe inability to comprehend and your tone is that of a complete troll. learn how to discuss things or dont waste your time posting b/c I wont bother responding to this illogical mess of a post. Bro-seriously learn to read. "I dunno what DLC you're referring to" it's right there in the post bro learn to read. But maybe thats the point "you dont know". "Sorry if you were expecting some Harry potter blah blah blah " pretty sure I never said anything about harry potter or happy ends. Advice if you want to be an adult and have a rational discussion don't try to make inferences and put words in people's mouths especially when you're 100% wrong.

In the previous game they mention Desmond "walking through the gate" with someone...well if Desmonds story is OVER as they promised and we didnt see any mystery person go through the gate with him then hmmmmmmmmmm. See where I'm going with this now that I've pracitcally spelt it out for you?

Here lemme help you again "The way this game ends is extremely abrupt and does not take the series in a new direction at all! So we are left with no real conclusion or resolution because everything in that world remains status quo. When we next pick up an AC game the world will be pretty much in the same spot it was in when AC1 started. There's a threat of enslavement and a group trying to prevent it. "

Where does that say i need a happy ending? What it says is im tired of the same basic story when they promised a conclusive ending. Also it should be common sense but apparently for you it isn't. After spending COUNTLESS HOURS playing these AC games I want to feel like my actions have meaning. What this quote indicates is that everything is completely status quo which indicates my actions have had a negligible impact at best. My actions throughout all the games feels even more meaningless because the finale of AC3 is rendered to a Sophies choice a choice which I can't even make! Sorry but after all of these hours having everything stay status quo is lazy writing and unacceptable.

The satellite, finding Eve, saving the world from enslavement, find various temples, the truth. The annihilation of the assassin's in the colony. These are major plot points all ignored or not resolved. Unacceptable. Two major plot points that are concluded are what roles will Cross and Desmond play? And in BOTH cases the payoffs flat out SUCKED

I agree with this, montagemik is a troll... People who are loyal to the series like myself expected an EPIC ending, but Ubisoft didn't deliver, and personally I didn't want desmond to die, but if that is the case atleast make me choose between Juno or Minerva's proposals..Ubisoft really scratched the game with their ending, this shows that they value money first than their fans

Poodle_of_Doom
11-29-2012, 11:02 PM
Only after fan reaction to the game had confirmed that it did that in some form of satisfying way. I'm done believing big claims made by Ubisoft, especially when it comes to character/story development. Revelations made several big claims about its story too, and that fell pretty flat for me. I'll be following whatever the next AC game is for info and details to see what's up, but I certainly won't be pre-ordering. This franchise is now in wait and see mode when it comes to purchasing for me. It's not even the money that matters to me as much as the wasted time and disappointment.

Yeah,.... I was just kind of curious. I'm basically in the same boat. I'm very disappointed.


I agree with this, montagemik is a troll... People who are loyal to the series like myself expected an EPIC ending, but Ubisoft didn't deliver, and personally I didn't want desmond to die, but if that is the case atleast make me choose between Juno or Minerva's proposals..Ubisoft really scratched the game with their ending, this shows that they value money first than their fans

Yeah,... I found myself sitting there thinking "Holy Crap, they're actually going to make me choose an ending? And I have to play this twice?" To bad they couldn't of delivered that.

montagemik
11-30-2012, 04:08 AM
I agree with this, montagemik is a troll... People who are loyal to the series like myself expected an EPIC ending, but Ubisoft didn't deliver, and personally I didn't want desmond to die, but if that is the case atleast make me choose between Juno or Minerva's proposals..Ubisoft really scratched the game with their ending, this shows that they value money first than their fans

Personally i was promised an End to Desmond's Story 'as the main protagonist'........Not sure where you got your promise from .
And yeah before you retort - I've been loyal to the series since i pre-ordered AC 1, 2 months before that game was released.
I had no fantasy I'D personally be given the option of choosing the games conclusion myself - And i'll reserve Final judgement on the Games actual END - When the game series actually ENDS .

Sorry to offend such a loyal fan - & Congrats on nearly being a member for a whole month - You'll get a loyalty bonus soon. :nonchalance:

pirate1802
11-30-2012, 04:15 AM
Yeah,... I found myself sitting there thinking "Holy Crap, they're actually going to make me choose an ending? And I have to play this twice?" To bad they couldn't of delivered that.

So had they included a choice it would have been epic?

TrueAssassin77
11-30-2012, 04:24 AM
no. if they actually put time into it, it would have been epic. the same kind of time they put into the epilouge

pirate1802
11-30-2012, 04:46 AM
Personally i was promised an End to Desmond's Story 'as the main protagonist'........Not sure where you got your promise from .
And yeah before you retort - I've been loyal to the series since i pre-ordered AC 1, 2 months before that game was released.
I had no fantasy I'D personally be given the option of choosing the games conclusion myself - And i'll reserve Final judgement on the Games actual END - When the game series actually ENDS .

Sorry to offend such a loyal fan - & Congrats on nearly being a member for a whole month - You'll get a loyalty bonus soon. :nonchalance:

You are wrong. You have to be terribly offended to be considered a loyal fan. Otherwise you're just another fanboi/fangirl..

pirate1802
11-30-2012, 04:47 AM
no. if they actually put time into it, it would have been epic. the same kind of time they put into the epilouge

My question was not for you xD

Assassin_M
11-30-2012, 04:57 AM
You are wrong. You have to be terribly offended to be considered a loyal fan. Otherwise you're just another fanboi/fangirl..
You are not allowed to like the ending..

Poodle_of_Doom
11-30-2012, 05:15 AM
My question was not for you xD

But my answer would of been the same. If they had put as much effort into it as they claimed, it would have been epic. They didn't put three years into this game. They put in one, maybe. At that, if I were given the choice, it still wouldn't of been epic. Put simply, it would of been better. Just better.

pirate1802
11-30-2012, 05:48 AM
But my answer would of been the same. If they had put as much effort into it as they claimed, it would have been epic. They didn't put three years into this game. They put in one, maybe. At that, if I were given the choice, it still wouldn't of been epic. Put simply, it would of been better. Just better.

Ok, I just got that impression from your post. Anyway, glad you cleared that up.


You are not allowed to like the ending..

What saddens me is this whole business of denouncing each other's fan status over a freaking videogame ending. Its not enough to dislike the ending, I must go against those who like it, or even those who don't have a huge prove with it and prove they're not loyal or whatever. I saw that post-ME3, and I'm seeing it now.

Dracosaber
11-30-2012, 07:03 AM
I felt the game gave us what we were promised, which is an end to Desmond's story, and resolution to certain things. The developers never promised a total resolution to the entire story, or even to this arc. Why would they? They can make more games this way, and that way the story doesn't have to end. Why end such an amazing story? People are mad at the end because it is abrupt, you don't see it coming, Desmond dies, and you feel like everything you did was for nothing. But it wasn't for nothing, you save the world. Maybe the ending wasn't as epic as many were hoping, but the developers didn't promise such an epic climax. Those that hated the ending were victims of hype, much of which was self-created by the fans. The ending makes perfect sense when you look at the characters, especially Juno, who in mythology is not the kindest of beings. The ending brought a lot, it was epic, just perhaps not in the way people were expecting.

Anyone mad because this is not a total resolution of everything and complaining that Ubisoft is doing this just for more money needs to remember that it is a business, and a good story should never truly end. Games are not novels, they are games, and they have a better chance of continuing stories than novels, so game developers will use that chance.

In any case, I do wish they had done something with Eve and the mysterious person supposedly that would be with Desmond. That might have helped appease those that disliked the ending. However, looking at mythology and the AC story so far, I found the ending of the game to be pretty good. Again, the series isn't done, so don't expect total resolution anytime soon, that is wishful thinking, and no amount of complaining is going to change that. The gaming industry when it comes to story telling is a completely different beast then reading book or watching movies, because developers are almost always hoping for a sequel. It's sad, but not likely to change. The ending Ubisoft gave us was a close to perfect way of ending Desmond's arc, and keeping the series alive. I don't know about you, but I want the series to stay alive, these are great games.

montagemik
11-30-2012, 09:18 AM
You are wrong. You have to be terribly offended to be considered a loyal fan. Otherwise you're just another fanboi/fangirl..

No , i'm not wrong ...........It just seems that way from your perspective . And you're very far away from me. :p

People can give me any title they like , my understanding & acceptance of AC-3's final moments & story is based on what i saw throughout the series = What i heard , what was shown & many clues that were given throughout .

I Don't judge any story that interests me until it's finished ..........Only a fool would.

And AC is far from finished. i think many confuse what was 'promised' with what they expected or wanted. Which will usually lead to dissapointment.

pirate1802
11-30-2012, 10:55 AM
No , i'm not wrong ...........It just seems that way from your perspective . And you're very far away from me. :p

People can give me any title they like , my understanding & acceptance of AC-3's final moments & story is based on what i saw throughout the series = What i heard , what was shown & many clues that were given throughout .

I Don't judge any story that interests me until it's finished ..........Only a fool would.

And AC is far from finished. i think many confuse what was 'promised' with what they expected or wanted. Which will usually lead to dissapointment.

I was being sarcastic..?

psf22
11-30-2012, 12:01 PM
You are not allowed to like the ending..

Only you man LMAO

Dracosaber
11-30-2012, 04:19 PM
You are not allowed to like the ending..

But.........but......."everything is permitted"........XD

montagemik
11-30-2012, 05:06 PM
But.........but......."everything is permitted"........XD

Ahhh But nothing is True - including "everything is permitted" .............it's a catch 22 , meaning we that understand it are wrong - those that don't MUST be right. LOL

montagemik
11-30-2012, 05:08 PM
I was being sarcastic..?

Yes i know - hence my reply was a joke ( "No , i'm not wrong ...........It just seems that way from your perspective . And you're very far away from me. http://static5.cdn.ubi.com/u/ubiforums/20120411.419/images/smilies/tongue.png " )

SteelCity999
11-30-2012, 05:30 PM
Only after fan reaction to the game had confirmed that it did that in some form of satisfying way. I'm done believing big claims made by Ubisoft, especially when it comes to character/story development. Revelations made several big claims about its story too, and that fell pretty flat for me. I'll be following whatever the next AC game is for info and details to see what's up, but I certainly won't be pre-ordering. This franchise is now in wait and see mode when it comes to purchasing for me. It's not even the money that matters to me as much as the wasted time and disappointment.

I will be waiting along side of you. Revelations only really disappointed me for its length and amount of content. It was thrown together pretty hastily after they realized they could make it a full-fledged console game. In the back of my head, I knew AC3 was coming and could look past some of the deficiencies many voiced in the "revelations".

I was cautiously optimistic with AC3 but I still can't seem to accept the fit in relation to the rest of the franchise.


But my answer would of been the same. If they had put as much effort into it as they claimed, it would have been epic. They didn't put three years into this game. They put in one, maybe. At that, if I were given the choice, it still wouldn't of been epic. Put simply, it would of been better. Just better.

I can't help but think that they really didn't spend the amount of time they claim on AC3. If you listen to Alex's interviews over the course of AC3's marketing, you can hear his timetable descriptions get longer and longer before they got into production. I think he let it slip in one interview that they didn't start physically producing the game until 6 months into 2010. I hate to also say, that I really wonder if Alex was their first choice to be the CD - I'm not bashing the guy btw. It seems to me that there was quite possibly some turmoil in the office during the first part of the year and that was what led to Patrice leaving, along with a few others. Maybe this has something to do with how the end product came to be because, on a creative level, the team challanged with the story was never really put together properly or worked together in any fashion before. Chemistry is hard to come and when you are playing clean up, things can sometimes lose focus. To me, AC3 has no focus and I think there is much to the story we will never know except it did affect the final product.

zerocooll21
11-30-2012, 08:40 PM
Arlington Road is a movie with an ending where the "bad guy wins" .

I LOVE that movie! An your OP, I agree with most of it :)



Considering this was the fifth game in an established franchise that had gained lots of dedicated fans based on how its gameplay tied into its characters, story and premise, I was kind of looking for that same element in Assassin's Creed 3. Call me crazy, but I expected the franchise to keep doing what it's always done in fresh and interesting ways, not suddenly treat the story and modern-day plot as an afterthought. It's not just difficult to please everyone, it's impossible. That's why I think a successful franchise should continue to do things that made it successful in the first place. They should focus on what they were doing well instead of trying to cater to everyone. By treating the story as an afterthought and making my time with it over the past few years feel like a waste, they've alienated the former huge fan in me.

I play games mainly for the gameplay, but the ones I enjoy, remember and connect with the most are the ones that tie their gameplay to a story or premise really well. That's what immerses me in a game, not just the game mechanics. Assassin's Creed did this increasingly well through the first three games, then started to falter with Revelations and finally fell off a cliff in AC3. In contrast, Portal 2, the Batman Arkham games, and Alan Wake all sucked me into their gameplay more and more because of their stories, environments and characters. I just think without the same kind of attention to the story, Assassin's Creed's gameplay is not enough to hold it up as a great experience anymore, and it just becomes a very generic action-adventure game.

@DoubleclickFT: Excellent point about comic book story plots. That's the perfect concept to fit what Assassin's Creed should be doing since they obviously intend to bleed it dry. Comic series go on for decades, yet story arcs always have real endings and some kind of resolution, even if it's only temporary. Then they move on to the next story arc the next month. They are also constantly setting up new plot points and mysteries that may develop into huge stories months later or may just fizzle out. AC3 should have concluded the current story while setting up the future stories in the background, and maybe teasing them just a bit in an epilogue. Instead, it feels like I just finished part 5 of a 10 part story, and it still hasn't gotten off the ground.


This is looking more and more likely, and it is incredibly dishonest storytelling if that's the case. So our reward for finishing all the Rifts in ACB was this really cool, atmospheric Virtual Reality climbing puzzle where we got to meet Subject 16 himself, who seemed to be trying to tell Desmond something really important. Not only that, what he was saying referenced mysteries explored and revealed in the previous game. And all along, they just meant for it to be the crazy ravings of a madman with absolutely no intentions of providing some sort of payoff? "Sorry, that big interesting mystery was just a lie! How d'ya like them apples?" Why would I ever be interested in any new mysteries they tease after being treated that way?


Only after fan reaction to the game had confirmed that it did that in some form of satisfying way. I'm done believing big claims made by Ubisoft, especially when it comes to character/story development. Revelations made several big claims about its story too, and that fell pretty flat for me. I'll be following whatever the next AC game is for info and details to see what's up, but I certainly won't be pre-ordering. This franchise is now in wait and see mode when it comes to purchasing for me. It's not even the money that matters to me as much as the wasted time and disappointment.

+1



no. if they actually put time into it, it would have been epic. the same kind of time they put into the epilouge

Haha, troof :p

Poodle_of_Doom
12-01-2012, 04:55 AM
I will be waiting along side of you. Revelations only really disappointed me for its length and amount of content. It was thrown together pretty hastily after they realized they could make it a full-fledged console game. In the back of my head, I knew AC3 was coming and could look past some of the deficiencies many voiced in the "revelations".

I was cautiously optimistic with AC3 but I still can't seem to accept the fit in relation to the rest of the franchise.



I can't help but think that they really didn't spend the amount of time they claim on AC3. If you listen to Alex's interviews over the course of AC3's marketing, you can hear his timetable descriptions get longer and longer before they got into production. I think he let it slip in one interview that they didn't start physically producing the game until 6 months into 2010. I hate to also say, that I really wonder if Alex was their first choice to be the CD - I'm not bashing the guy btw. It seems to me that there was quite possibly some turmoil in the office during the first part of the year and that was what led to Patrice leaving, along with a few others. Maybe this has something to do with how the end product came to be because, on a creative level, the team challanged with the story was never really put together properly or worked together in any fashion before. Chemistry is hard to come and when you are playing clean up, things can sometimes lose focus. To me, AC3 has no focus and I think there is much to the story we will never know except it did affect the final product.

It's complete BS.... Between this and the deal with the limited edition art book, Ubi has officially screwed up in my playbook. This series is dead. And not to me as an individual either. The whole thing has been circiling the drain for a while now. Hell, even Revelations was a better game than this....

BATISTABUS
12-01-2012, 05:00 AM
Despite everything that happens within the story, I think Ubisoft just wanted to move on for marketing purposes. They were probably sick of him and found a way to put it to an end, but above all, a large part of the market that is on the fence about buying AC games doesn't like him.

Poodle_of_Doom
12-01-2012, 06:48 AM
Who? Desmond? I think eveyone liked him. I just don't think there was enough of an oppertunity for everyone to warm up to him.

Assassin_M
12-01-2012, 08:10 AM
Hell, even Revelations was a better game than this....
I genuinely laughed...Thanks

Poodle_of_Doom
12-01-2012, 08:34 AM
I genuinely laughed...Thanks

I'm glad.

pirate1802
12-01-2012, 06:37 PM
Who? Desmond? I think eveyone liked him. I just don't think there was enough of an oppertunity for everyone to warm up to him.

The irony...

Poodle_of_Doom
12-02-2012, 04:39 AM
The irony...

Of?....

pirate1802
12-02-2012, 07:16 AM
Of?....

To say that "everybody" liked him, and follow it up by saying Ubi didn't give enough opportunity to warm up to him (AKA like him)..

psf22
12-02-2012, 07:46 AM
^^ Sharp

Poodle_of_Doom
12-02-2012, 07:48 AM
To say that "everybody" liked him, and follow it up by saying Ubi didn't give enough opportunity to warm up to him (AKA like him)..

Well, when you take it litterally, then perhaps. But you were supposed to read into it a bit. Point was that I don't think people disliked him. I think people simply prefered the other characters more due to their over exposure to them.

psf22
12-02-2012, 08:31 AM
Well, when you take it litterally, then perhaps. But you were supposed to read into it a bit. Point was that I don't think people disliked him. I think people simply prefered the other characters more due to their over exposure to them.

That's kind of obvious. Frankly speaking I don't give a crap about Desmond in the grand scheme of things. As in, I'd buy and play the game even if he wasn't so likeable due to over exposure. I've always seen him as just a plot device to make the story work.

pirate1802
12-02-2012, 08:33 AM
I've always seen him as just a plot device to make the story work not to particularly see him as THE hero.

I like this human.

psf22
12-02-2012, 08:52 AM
I like this world

TrueAssassin77
12-02-2012, 09:03 AM
to bad it ends Dec 22

pirate1802
12-02-2012, 09:04 AM
to bad it ends Dec 22

It would be beautiful..

psf22
12-02-2012, 09:44 AM
I like the misery

Sedres
12-02-2012, 09:48 AM
I got throught o page 6 of the topic, struggled to carry on from there :(

The OP made alot of sense to me, alot of the issues raised I've felt for a long time, that the AC series is simply being propagated to make money. It's the way of the world and how the world goes around and so is hard to avoid, it'd just be nice if Ubisoft didn't make it so blatantly obvious - "Haha, we're stinging you guys along, you know you're being strung along, but you still keep giving us money". The whole Lucy fiasco is such a testament to this, as someone wrote earlier. She was so clearly a love interest and then they go and rip her out of the story? She was written out of the story so, SO poorly, it just felt like a 3 in the morning decision, a decision that went like this:

"I don't like her anymore, let's kill her off and hope no one asks questions"

The next day...

"Why'd you kill Lucy?"
"Er..."

And now, apparently, someone from an ancient civilization, who's dead, can now, after dying, prevent a catastrophe that killed her to begin with. Someone else, from the same civilization, who's also dead, can see all that's going to happen, doesn't want a particular thing to happen, tries to stop this particular thing to happen, which then happens anyway.

...Wait, what?

It's all just gotten so convoluted and out of control, even the developers are admitting they don't know what to do anymore, with that survey they released recently.

"So, we ended Desmond's part of the story. Now answer this question: Would you be interested in another story with or without Desmond?"

I kinda wish we could see what'd happened if Brotherhood and Revelations had never happened now. Imagine if they hadn't opened that can of worms, and AC stayed as a "Triology" like the initially intended. Would they of killed off Lucy in AC3? Would Juno of even of made an appearence? Just what was their initial plan, anyway?

psf22
12-02-2012, 09:59 AM
In my opinion, the minute you (we?) started unlocking those glyphs and unlocked 'The Truth' you should've already known it was getting too convoluted. This is in AC II.

Poodle_of_Doom
12-02-2012, 05:45 PM
That's kind of obvious. Frankly speaking I don't give a crap about Desmond in the grand scheme of things. As in, I'd buy and play the game even if he wasn't so likeable due to over exposure. I've always seen him as just a plot device to make the story work.

Even if he wasn't so likable? I think we already established that he wasn't,....? Second of all, if it were so obvious, why was I being asked about it, at that, why was it even brought up that people don't like him? Because that's the actual perception...

D.I.D.
12-02-2012, 06:36 PM
I Also understood the AC Saga we've seen so far .We saw 3 people walk through the gate with him - there full role is yet not fully explained.

"She is not yet within our sight". So Rebecca was not the one.

Assassin_M
12-02-2012, 06:38 PM
"She is not yet within our sight". So Rebecca was not the one.
It`s William...

He`s Eve

D.I.D.
12-02-2012, 07:03 PM
It`s William...

He`s Eve

:D

Of course, although I laughed, that could actually be true. There's no reason why the person with the necessary DNA has to be the same gender as the ancestor, so there could be some truth in your joke.

Assassin_M
12-02-2012, 07:06 PM
:D

Of course, although I laughed, that could actually be true. There's no reason why the person with the necessary DNA has to be the same gender as the ancestor, so there could be some truth in your joke.
Ahh....Haha Of course >_>

Who said I was joking ?:p

D.I.D.
12-02-2012, 07:13 PM
ahh....haha of course >_>

who said i was joking ?:p

"NO... NOT YOU... WE WANT THE BEARDED LADY

YES. YOU. YOU, POlNTING AT YOURSELF. YES, STEP FORWARD, HAIRY MADAM"

Assassin_M
12-02-2012, 07:23 PM
"NO... NOT YOU... WE WANT THE BEARDED LADY

YES. YOU. YOU, POlNTING AT YOURSELF. YES, STEP FORWARD, HAIRY MADAM"
http://www.behindthevoiceactors.com/_img/chars/char_84186.jpg#.ULucb6xX3yA

g1real
12-02-2012, 10:58 PM
"Why'd you kill Lucy?"

Rumors have it her voice actor didn't want to voice act anymore, so they killed her off in a slight retcon.

So what about Desmond having eagle vision again? In the end he ends up doing nothing special with it, good job killing him off without him actually amounting to anything other than being plotfodder.

Poodle_of_Doom
12-02-2012, 11:21 PM
Actually, her voice actor only signed up for three games. Brotherhood was the third. Why she didn't renew her contract, we'll never know.

Farlander1991
12-03-2012, 07:08 AM
Well, she signed up for three games back in the day when there were supposed to be only three games. Some sources say that the idea to kill of Lucy originated during early development of AC2. So I suspect that they wanted to kill her off in AC3, and then when they decided to do AC:B (because, well, AC:B wasn't exactly a pre-planned game, as is the case with Revelations), killed her there instead. And I guess they thought that redeeming the contract for The Lost Archives DLC wasn't worth it.

People tend to overthink why something somewhere happened, I think that in this particular case, everything was pretty straightforward.

psf22
12-03-2012, 07:38 AM
Even if he wasn't so likable? I think we already established that he wasn't,....? Second of all, if it were so obvious, why was I being asked about it, at that, why was it even brought up that people don't like him? Because that's the actual perception...

I or (we?) didn't establish anything. I'm just saying that regardless of his small role or (bigger if it were the case) I didn't really care so much about liking or disliking him as to me he was merely a plot device.

Now what you were being asked and your or anyone else' opinion about it is something else. I just gave my input on why I think it's actually irrelevant how his role was portrayed (whether likeable or not including its exposure of it) in the grand scheme of things.

Poodle_of_Doom
12-03-2012, 05:15 PM
I or (we?) didn't establish anything. I'm just saying that regardless of his small role or (bigger if it were the case) I didn't really care so much about liking or disliking him as to me he was merely a plot device.

Now what you were being asked and your or anyone else' opinion about it is something else. I just gave my input on why I think it's actually irrelevant how his role was portrayed (whether likeable or not including its exposure of it) in the grand scheme of things.


Sounds like double speak to me.

Shad0wmancer1
12-03-2012, 07:01 PM
Thank You!!! I love this post. It sums up most of my major complaints!!

Yes, a big thanks for this post. It is a brilliant analysis. I am right there with you; I'm done with Ubisoft also and won't be buying any more of these games.

psf22
12-04-2012, 05:21 AM
Sounds like double speak to me.

Just to get my point across, since you missed it the first time ;)

Poodle_of_Doom
12-04-2012, 05:22 PM
Just to get my point across, since you missed it the first time ;)

Your an idiot. I tell you that you talk out of both sides of your moth, and you say it's to get your point across? No wonder I missed it.....

Seriously, you want to argue that he wasn't likeable but, to quote you:


Frankly speaking I don't give a crap about Desmond in the grand scheme of things.

But in the same breath say:


As in, I'd buy and play the game even if he wasn't so likeable due to over exposure.

At that, what you said contributed nothing to the subject at hand. To quote:


I or (we?) didn't establish anything.

Oh really? We didn't establish he was likable in your post? Okay Lets move on....


I'm just saying that regardless of his small role or (bigger if it were the case) I didn't really care so much about liking or disliking him as to me he was merely a plot device.

So,... why did we bring up how likable he is, and how you hated that about him not even two posts ago? Oh wait,.... we haven't established that have we?



Now what you were being asked and your or anyone else' opinion about it is something else. I just gave my input on why I think it's actually irrelevant how his role was portrayed (whether likeable or not including its exposure of it) in the grand scheme of things.

Okay.... I take it I missed something here. We're talking about how he's unlikable and under exposed. You start rambling about how he is likable due to over exposure. You tell me there's nothing to be established, or that nothing has, though we have to some degree. At that, the whole point of the discussion we were having was not how he was being used as a plot device, but how he was being perceived. Hell.... I think most of the characters here were plot devices.... technically.

psf22
12-05-2012, 05:36 AM
Your an idiot. I tell you that you talk out of both sides of your moth, and you say it's to get your point across? No wonder I missed it.....

Seriously, you want to argue that he wasn't likeable but, to quote you:



But in the same breath say:



At that, what you said contributed nothing to the subject at hand. To quote:



Oh really? We didn't establish he was likable in your post? Okay Lets move on....



So,... why did we bring up how likable he is, and how you hated that about him not even two posts ago? Oh wait,.... we haven't established that have we?




Okay.... I take it I missed something here. We're talking about how he's unlikable and under exposed. You start rambling about how he is likable due to over exposure. You tell me there's nothing to be established, or that nothing has, though we have to some degree. At that, the whole point of the discussion we were having was not how he was being used as a plot device, but how he was being perceived. Hell.... I think most of the characters here were plot devices.... technically.

Even if, as in if that were the case (not saying it was, just IF) So no contradiction there. Why? Because You liked him right, so that is in direct assumption to/of what YOU said.

I said that I didn't establish anything because whether he was likeable or not due to the reasons you mentioned were irrelevant in MY POV, because I judge his situation/role (incl his exposure/likeability) differently than most (obviously seem) to do.

The latter might be a bit too ambiguous for you to comprehend, as was OBVIOUSLY my initial reply on the matter.

*Btw, I never claimed to not like or even hate Desmond. That's just something you assumed because I put it very blunt by saying (in the grand scheme of things) which is obviously a lot more ambiguous and more open for interpretation/context for ANYONE that reads that comment, not just you.
Others feel the same as I do, for probably the same or slightly altering reasons. Maybe you thought I was directing it to only you because I used your Quote in my reply. My apologies for that.

Poodle_of_Doom
12-05-2012, 05:10 PM
An ever changing story....

psf22
12-06-2012, 07:13 AM
An ever changing story....

You just didn't get the double meaning, it's ok. Nevermind.
At least someone else got it.

Dangerzone50
12-06-2012, 10:02 AM
*sigh* this will seem random at this point in the thread, but when is everyone finally going to wake up and realize that Ac is not a game anymore... its a tv show,

every episode gives as little as possible and comes to an abrupt end as soon as it was getting good, and not every episode is actually decent. the finales are even more frustrating cause they leave so much unresolved but introduce 100 new things to the series... and after running 4 seasons after the audience stopped caring, it eventually it will recieve a lackluster "final" chapter that will seem like it was thrown together last minute no matter how long in advance they "planned" it... and some time even later they will release an encyclopedia that holds all the answers to the burning questions instead of addressing them before the main series ended... then "reinvent" it 10 years later for our kids

Poodle_of_Doom
12-06-2012, 05:10 PM
You just didn't get the double meaning, it's ok. Nevermind.
At least someone else got it.

Oh yeah? Like who?


*sigh* this will seem random at this point in the thread, but when is everyone finally going to wake up and realize that Ac is not a game anymore... its a tv show,

every episode gives as little as possible and comes to an abrupt end as soon as it was getting good, and not every episode is actually decent. the finales are even more frustrating cause they leave so much unresolved but introduce 100 new things to the series... and after running 4 seasons after the audience stopped caring, it eventually it will recieve a lackluster "final" chapter that will seem like it was thrown together last minute no matter how long in advance they "planned" it... and some time even later they will release an encyclopedia that holds all the answers to the burning questions instead of addressing them before the main series ended... then "reinvent" it 10 years later for our kids

Good summary.

Dangerzone50
12-06-2012, 07:28 PM
yeah i am quickly noticing that AC is becoming the "LOST" of video games... Most fan boys already know how that one turned out

psf22
12-07-2012, 11:50 AM
Oh yeah? Like who?


Pirate1802

Poodle_of_Doom
12-07-2012, 06:02 PM
Pirate1802

Quote it.

psf22
12-08-2012, 08:54 AM
Quote it.

You can just scroll back if you care so much.

Poodle_of_Doom
12-08-2012, 09:16 AM
You can just scroll back if you care so much.

Maybe I have. Maybe I don't know what your talking about. Maybe your just pulling things out of thin air again. Or maybe,... just maybe... I'm to lazy to care.

psf22
12-08-2012, 10:00 AM
Maybe I have. Maybe I don't know what your talking about. Maybe your just pulling things out of thin air again. Or maybe,... just maybe... I'm to lazy to care.

Too bad.

Moving on

Poodle_of_Doom
12-08-2012, 05:49 PM
I like this human.

Are you talking about that? That's kind of generic, and had absolutly nothing to do with anything you specifically said. All he said was he likes you. Hell, for all I know, he likes you because you make awesome buttermilk pancakes. Maybe he's your brother, and likes you because of that. Maybe he just likes you because you share an intelect problem.

pirate1802
12-08-2012, 06:10 PM
Are you talking about that? That's kind of generic, and had absolutly nothing to do with anything you specifically said. All he said was he likes you. Hell, for all I know, he likes you because you make awesome buttermilk pancakes. Maybe he's your brother, and likes you because of that. Maybe he just likes you because you share an intelect problem.

I have not idea in hell why you suddenly quoted me from a million pages back.

Poodle_of_Doom
12-09-2012, 05:03 AM
I have not idea in hell why you suddenly quoted me from a million pages back.

This is the conversation that led to me quoting you:


You just didn't get the double meaning, it's ok. Nevermind.
At least someone else got it.


Oh yeah? Like who?



Pirate1802

He's being an idiot.... that's why.

pirate1802
12-09-2012, 05:58 AM
Lol.. I just agreed with him on his views on Desmond and the modern day story. I don't even have an idea what you two are fighting about!

Poodle_of_Doom
12-09-2012, 08:37 AM
Lol.. I just agreed with him on his views on Desmond and the modern day story. I don't even have an idea what you two are fighting about!

Start on page 11, and come forward. See if you can figure it out.

pirate1802
12-09-2012, 09:53 AM
I think what he meant is he would buy the games regardless of what happens to Desmond, whether he is made likable or not. Because to him, (and to me) he is merely a plot device. Apart fro that I can't make heads or tails of who said what..

zerocooll21
12-09-2012, 01:54 PM
srsly guys, my head hurts :p

psf22
12-09-2012, 05:39 PM
I think what he meant is he would buy the games regardless of what happens to Desmond, whether he is made likable or not. Because to him, (and to me) he is merely a plot device. Apart fro that I can't make heads or tails of who said what..

Thank you sir.

joaomuas
12-09-2012, 08:39 PM
The way this game ends is extremely abrupt and does not take the series in a new direction at all! So we are left with no real conclusion or resolution because everything in that world remains status quo. When we next pick up an AC game the world will be pretty much in the same spot it was in when AC1 started. There's a threat of enslavement and a group trying to prevent it. We've gone off the same basic plot for over 6 games now so when you say you were coming out with a conclusive ending and when fans say they are completely pissed off thats why. We just exchanged the name Desmond for some future as of now nameless character. That is NOT a real conclusive ending.


Much of the tension that was building throughout these games does not meet with any payoff because the direction the storyline takes trivializes what used to be a major plot issue without actually resolving it. The character of Desmond is wracked with guilt and anger over being forced to kill Lucy and there is some mystery person he must go through the gate with! If you didnt download DLC then Desmond never talks about guilt or anger. if you didn't dl the DLC then the first thing you find out about it really is in a side convo with rebecca where he off hand mentions "Nbd she was a double agent I saw it in my head." He never questions whether it was bs or an illusion or trick of some kind he just trusts the magic hologram that denounces all of mankind and murders her. Seems legit. Oh and the "mystery person" well this was never ever CLOSE to being addressed in the game. Also I'm pretty sure "the truth" and "Eve" were portrayed as MAJOR plot points in AC2. They are never ever ever brought up...ever. A major plot point just wholly ignored in not one (BH) not two (RV) but THREE III 3 games including the game that promised a conclusive ending!

The whole "find various temples" schtick was apparently completely forgotten. The abstergo satellite likewise is apparently completely forgotten. Look you story writers at ubisoft clearly failed miserably to think this through. Every games story was designed to extend the series main storyline. It's pretty clear that this is just a disturbing trend in the industry in general. Stick with what works...a storyline with desmond works? Ok stick with that and keep pushing that storyline in handhelds, AC1,2,BH,RV,3 keep that story going and going and going so we can sell merch.


But the problem is Desmonds story is ending (wont say how). it's ended now but that is seemingly the ONLY thing that ended. AThe entire AC storyline is not even affected at all. How could the main character of 5+ games finish his story and apparently have no discernible impact? He got a Sophie's Choice where either choice accomplishes roughly the same thing hence no discernible impact. And you guys have this horrible company policy of releasing major plot points in DLC without advertising at all that it's in there

Thats what led me to make this post because this is an absolutely horrible business practice. You are pruposely witholding content from your main games so that you can add it to side merch? You are literally taking content out of your main games and reducing the quality of these games so that you can add to DLC or handheld games! This is why after loving the AC series I am done with your company. I will watch playthroughs on youtube and read on wiki sites b/c honestly thats where I've recieved most of the info on your AC universe anyway because you hide all of the story details in DLC and side merch.

But you guys aren't the only ones engaging in awful business practices:

4. Final Fantasy XIII-2
Imagine spending over sixty hours playing a game without getting any closure at the end. 'To be continued' is the last thing you want to hear when finishing up Final Fantasy thirteen-two. And Square Enix promising to sell other endings as DLC in the future is just plain wrong.
3. Asura's Wrath
Asura's Wrath is another offender of making you buy the 'true ending'. The game ends poorly but gamers are able to buy four additional 'ending episodes' as DLC. It's a cheap way to grab some extra cash and a giant middle finger in the face of gamers.

People want to continue to buy and support this practice fine. The gameplay is still rewarding but the fact is i got sucked into the storyline and now I feel like my interest is being taken advantage of without being rewarded. Borderlands had no storyline but I was fine spending 60 on the next one with NO expectation of story. In this game the story was a big part of my motivation for buying. The giant advertised battles were another (Didn't have that in the game either unless you count sneaking around in the trees and running from rock to rock). I don't support companies that falsely advertise and lie to their customers

We were promised an ending to Desmond's story, not the whole franchise.

That DLC stuff is not that important.

"The Truth" was meant to show you how mankind escaped enslavement from TWCB and started the war with them before the "end of the world". As for that "find Eve" thing, that is probably going to be explored in further games. Why would you need to find her? Because, as "The Truth" shows, it was Adam and Eve who stole the POE and freed mankind, starting the war. Well, to escape Juno, you'll probably play as a new "Adam" and you'll need to find the new "Eve" to defeat Juno. Since the world isn't facing another threat thanks to Desmond (and how does preventing the world's end not have any impact at all?) the war won't be interrupted and mankind will [hopefully] win.

On the "find the various temples" matter, well, in ACR's ending you learn that all the power, resources, TWCB stuff or whatever was in all the temples were concentrated into the main one: the one in NY, from AC3.

As for Eye-Abstergo, read your e-mails dude...


The only thing I didn't like was the lack of stealth-assassination missions in modern-day, but that was only because I'd love to do them with Desmond as I really liked him as a character. These Abstergo and evil-corporation stuff will surely be in other games, just not with Desmond.

So, here it is. Am I the only one who loved the ending? I mean, I always knew it would be a "sacrifice for the greater good kind of thing"... Are you just upset for Desmond's death?

Poodle_of_Doom
12-10-2012, 04:53 AM
I think what he meant is he would buy the games regardless of what happens to Desmond, whether he is made likable or not. Because to him, (and to me) he is merely a plot device. Apart fro that I can't make heads or tails of who said what..

Oh no... I completely understand that. But at this point, he's trying to argue the likability of Desmond when there's no real need.

psf22
12-10-2012, 11:59 AM
@Pirate
He's just making up stuff to save face at this moment. Case n point: *"But at this point he's trying to argue.." Right after he says: "I completely understand it"
Although you clearly stated "Whether Desmond is made likeable or not .... plot device."

Pirate you think he got it completely?

If he understood it (before your reply), then why is/would he so obsessed with whether someone understood what I meant in particular you? It is because he initially did not understand it, and if he did than why bother involving you in the matter. See what I did there?

*Not to mention that everything I explained afterwards was all to explain the inital context of which the wording was used in/for (in my 'first reply' to extend conversation while putting in MY POV), because again he didn't understand it and/or was reading into it the 'wrong' way and actually calling me out for it while continuously using derogatory terms.

pirate1802
12-10-2012, 01:12 PM
Am I the only one who loved the ending?

Here in you are not allowed to like the ending! Or else you're a ubisoft fanboi!!

jk.. I liked the ending too, interms of the concept and what it brings to the series, I just wish it was executed a little better with lesser unanswered questions.



@Poodle_of_Doom: I think what he meant was that he'd buy the game even if they made Desmond so charming that every girl ran after him like those Axe Effect ads, or if he was made so morose that he develops a repulsive field around him. To which you said, that it is already established Desmond isn't charming. He didn't say Desmond was or wasn't charming, he just said its irrelevant to him. He said even supposing he is made super charming it'll still be irrelevant to him. He didn't establish that Desmond was charming, he just took an assumption on it and stated his views.

Its like me saying I'll eat that food no matter if its pizza or pancakes. I didn't establish if the food is definitely pizza or definitely pancakes, I'm just saying whether I'm given a pizza or a pancake I'll devour it. You both are correct in a way. :P

psf22
12-10-2012, 01:31 PM
Here in you are not allowed to like the ending! Or else you're a ubisoft fanboi!!

jk.. I liked the ending too, interms of the concept and what it brings to the series, I just wish it was executed a little better with lesser unanswered questions.



@Poodle_of_Doom: I think what he meant was that he'd buy the game even if they made Desmond so charming that every girl ran after him like those Axe Effect ads, or if he was made so morose that he develops a repulsive field around him. To which you said, that it is already established Desmond isn't charming. He didn't say Desmond was or wasn't charming, he just said its irrelevant to him. He said even supposing he is made super charming it'll still be irrelevant to him. He didn't establish that Desmond was charming, he just took an assumption on it and stated his views.

Its like me saying I'll eat that food no matter if its pizza or pancakes. I didn't establish if the food is definitely pizza or definitely pancakes, I'm just saying whether I'm given a pizza or a pancake I'll devour it. You both are correct in a way. :P

I thank you again, see it ain't so difficult :)

Pizza > Pancakes btw

Poodle_of_Doom
12-10-2012, 07:32 PM
Whatever....