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View Full Version : Assassin's creed debate thread [spoilers]



scooper121s
11-25-2012, 04:58 AM
This is where all us die hard Assassin's creed fans can debate the history, lore, character developments, weapons, and more things in the Assassin's creed Universe.

Rules to follow while debating-
-No Trolling, do not try to intentionally ruin Assassin's creed for someone.
-No flame-wars, these can cause a thread to be locked, and I have no wish for this thread to be locked.
-No overuse of bad language, this can also cause a thread to be locked

First Debate topic-
Haytham, is he good or bad, or a bit off both?
My thoughts- a bit of both, if you read forsaken you learn his story, and this has made me see the in-game world in his eyes.

XxFEARLESSEINxX
11-25-2012, 05:35 AM
This is where all us die hard Assassin's creed fans can debate the history, lore, character developments, weapons, and more things in the Assassin's creed Universe.

Rules to follow while debating-
-No Trolling, do not try to intentionally ruin Assassin's creed for someone.
-No flame-wars, these can cause a thread to be locked, and I have no wish for this thread to be locked.
-No overuse of bad language, this can also cause a thread to be locked

First Debate topic-
Haytham, is he good or bad, or a bit off both?
My thoughts- a bit of both, if you read forsaken you learn his story, and this has made me see the in-game world in his eyes.


I really wish they didn't make books for Assassin's Creed.
I tried at least finding the first book but the publication dates and authors are all over the place.

From what I can tell Hatham is a bad guy. He tried to kill his son for god sakes I don't think that's grounds for being a 'good guy'.

But then again I don't think the Assassin's are 'good guy's' either. They're more like vigilante's but with a cause bigger than themselves.
After all Connor really had no interest in the revolution, his main goal is to keep his people safe and he did whatever he could to ensure that. Unfortunately there was only so much he could do.
It's still undetermined if he is really is for the Assassin cause. This game, for Connor at least, was him getting revenge and saving his people. Those goals conveniently tied in to the Assassin cause.

Assassin_M
11-25-2012, 05:37 AM
I really wish they didn't make books for Assassin's Creed.
I tried at least finding the first book but the publication dates and authors are all over the place.

From what I can tell Hatham is a bad guy. He tried to kill his son for god sakes I don't think that's grounds for being a 'good guy'.

But then again I don't think the Assassin's are 'good guy's' either. They're more like vigilante's but with a cause bigger than themselves.
After all Connor really had no interest in the revolution, his main goal is to keep his people safe and he did whatever he could to ensure that. Unfortunately there was only so much he could do.
It's still undetermined if he is really is for the Assassin cause. This game, for Connor at least, was him getting revenge and saving his people. Those goals conveniently tied in to the Assassin cause.
And Connor totally didn't try to kill his Dad...Yeah

XxFEARLESSEINxX
11-25-2012, 05:41 AM
And Connor totally didn't try to kill his Dad...Yeah

I think it was a harder decision for Connor than it was for Hatham.

TrueAssassin77
11-25-2012, 05:42 AM
Connor> Haytham

Assassin_M
11-25-2012, 05:44 AM
I think it was a harder decision for Connor than it was for Hatham.
Right....Haytham who actually spared his Son...Sure;)

XxFEARLESSEINxX
11-25-2012, 05:48 AM
Right....Haytham who actually spared his Son...Sure;)

Haytham would've never been able to find Church without Connor.
Plus Haytham starts the fight in the fort.
Need I elaborate?

scooper121s
11-25-2012, 05:51 AM
Haytham's life was screwed up since he was around 9-10 when he killed a man going to kill his mother, and several minutes later saw has father die, who was an assassin btw, and then his sister kidnapped by a trusted member of the kenway household. Furthermore he was then inducted into the Templar order (He did not find out about his fathers aligance to later on) by reginald birch, who he killed several decades later; he has a right to be screwed up.

Assassin_M
11-25-2012, 05:52 AM
Haytham would've never been able to find Church without Connor.
Plus Haytham starts the fight in the fort.
Need I elaborate?
Haytham had no Idea Connor was after Church before meeting him in the Abandoned Church (Haa)..

Haytham could`v killed him, but he chose non-lethal means...It`s actually Connor who starts using lethal weaponry in that fight;)

scooper121s
11-25-2012, 05:53 AM
Haytham had no Idea Connor was after Church before meeting him in the Abandoned Church (Haa)..

Haytham could`v killed him, but he chose non-lethal means...It`s actually Connor who starts using lethal weaponry in that fight;)
precisely

montagemik
11-25-2012, 05:54 AM
Haytham is determined & efficient in his actions - But not completely heartless .
He did seem genuinely dismayed for a moment- When connor tells him what happened to his village.

He's .........Complex - But will not let his personal feelings prevent or hinder his objectives. So Both i'd say.
Where as LEE is a bad guy without question or remorse .

Connor on the other hand - can let his emotions overule his purpose at times .

Shades of grey on both sides to some extent .

XxFEARLESSEINxX
11-25-2012, 05:57 AM
Haytham had no Idea Connor was after Church before meeting him in the Abandoned Church (Haa)..

Haytham could`v killed him, but he chose non-lethal means...It`s actually Connor who starts using lethal weaponry in that fight;)

Whut?

Haytham is on top of Connor with his blade about to stab him in the throat.
Connor has to kill him in order to survive.
Haytham liked Lee better than Connor anyways.


Haytham's life was screwed up since he was around 9-10 when he killed a man going to kill his mother, and several minutes later saw has father die, who was an assassin btw, and then his sister kidnapped by a trusted member of the kenway household. Furthermore he was then inducted into the Templar order (He did not find out about his fathers aligance to later on) by reginald birch, who he killed several decades later; he has a right to be screwed up.


Enlighten me on why Haytham became a Templar?
And even after finding out what his father was continued to be a Templar?

jamgamerforever
11-25-2012, 06:00 AM
When you're asking whether Haytham is "good", you're really asking if the Templar ideal is "good".

No, it's not. But neither are the Assassins.

The Assassins wish to provide true freedom, which is naive. True freedom would, just as Haytham says, lead to death and darkness. However, total control does not better humanity, as the Templars profess. It actually removes our humanity.

There's a common ground between freedom and control, both are necessary in society.

Assassin_M
11-25-2012, 06:08 AM
Whut?

Haytham is on top of Connor with his blade about to stab him in the throat.
Connor has to kill him in order to survive.
Haytham liked Lee better than Connor anyways.

Err I`m talking about the start of that fight. Haytham punches Connor, gives him an elbow to the back. Connor then proceeds to hold his father and gets his blade and stabs his father`s arm..

Assuming of course we`re talking about the final fight..

XxFEARLESSEINxX
11-25-2012, 06:12 AM
Err I`m talking about the start of that fight. Haytham punches Connor, gives him an elbow to the back. Connor then proceeds to hold his father and gets his blade and stabs his father`s arm..

Assuming of course we`re talking about the final fight..

We are indeed talking about the final fight.
I'm pretty sure that Haytham pulls out his sword then Connor stabs him.

Assassin_M
11-25-2012, 06:15 AM
We are indeed talking about the final fight.
I'm pretty sure that Haytham pulls out his sword then Connor stabs him.
No...It`s Connor who draws the Dagger first... (Take my word for it)

scooper121s
11-25-2012, 06:19 AM
thier fight starts at 7:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOk8WVDaP_w

XxFEARLESSEINxX
11-25-2012, 06:28 AM
thier fight starts at 7:55

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOk8WVDaP_w

They're both equally responsible for the fight.

scooper121s
11-25-2012, 06:29 AM
Haytham used non-lethal means rendering your argument mute

Assassin_M
11-25-2012, 06:31 AM
Haytham used non-lethal means rendering your argument mute
This..

I did not say "Oh Haytham loved his son" They`re both *****s :P