PDA

View Full Version : What do you think your primary ride will be



Maj_Death
08-23-2004, 03:43 PM
I'm curious as to what ride people think will be their primary mount. I know that many will change their minds once they get PF but I'm certain that atleast some will stick with it. I think my primary ride will be the F4U Corsair. She should be fast, difficult to fly and very unforgiving, just like my wonderful Fw-190's. I have also thought about going the JAAF route with the Ki-43 and Ki-61. Those types of planes were amoung my favorites way back in the days of Aces of the Pacific. Planes I'll probebly stay away from include the F6F, brit stuff and Zero's, mainly cause I just never really cared for those.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

Maj_Death here, I/JG1_Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VWF and may join other online wars in the future. I am currently the acting CO, if you are interested in joining please PM me here or page me in HL.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

Maj_Death
08-23-2004, 03:43 PM
I'm curious as to what ride people think will be their primary mount. I know that many will change their minds once they get PF but I'm certain that atleast some will stick with it. I think my primary ride will be the F4U Corsair. She should be fast, difficult to fly and very unforgiving, just like my wonderful Fw-190's. I have also thought about going the JAAF route with the Ki-43 and Ki-61. Those types of planes were amoung my favorites way back in the days of Aces of the Pacific. Planes I'll probebly stay away from include the F6F, brit stuff and Zero's, mainly cause I just never really cared for those.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

Maj_Death here, I/JG1_Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VWF and may join other online wars in the future. I am currently the acting CO, if you are interested in joining please PM me here or page me in HL.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

VFA-195 Snacky
08-23-2004, 03:51 PM
Hellcat and hopefully the Avenger at some point.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/b_a_presidential_first.jpg
"Navy1, Call the Ball- Roger Ball."

berg417448
08-23-2004, 03:55 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Maj_Death:
I'm curious as to what ride people think will be their primary mount. I know that many will change their minds once they get PF but I'm certain that atleast some will stick with it. I think my primary ride will be the F4U Corsair. She should be fast, difficult to fly and very unforgiving, just like my wonderful Fw-190's."



It is interesting how different people feel about some planes. I recall that when the US NAVY tested the FW-190 they said it was easy to fly in combat.

http://ubbxforums-de.ubi.com/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=59010161&f=388104122&m=594101645


I agree with you though...I find it a bit harder than average in this game.

xTHRUDx
08-23-2004, 03:56 PM
anything with more than one engine. hopefully a PBY

VFA-195 Snacky
08-23-2004, 04:03 PM
If your expecting the Corsair to be like the 190 I think your in for a surprise. The Corsair only had problems when it was wheels down. Once you cleaned it up and got in the air it was supposed to be a very nice plane to fly and required little effort.
It was called the Ensign eliminator because of initial carrier ops, not because it was hard to fly in combat.
I would expect the Corsair to handle much like what the P47D-27 does now in AEP with the Corsair having slightly better turn and roll ability. Same wasp engine for both aircraft.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/b_a_presidential_first.jpg
"Navy1, Call the Ball- Roger Ball."

Maj_Death
08-23-2004, 04:34 PM
I never specified where it was unforgiving. I'm also no noob to flight sims, I liked the F4U in both AotP and Pacific Air War. I think I have a pretty good idea of what to expect. And BTW the Fw-190 isn't all that different from the P-47 when it comes to flying and fighting in it.

With the F4U I expect something that is fast, good handling at high speed, and relatively difficult to takeoff and land. I also expect a sweet looking skin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

Maj_Death here, I/JG1_Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VWF and may join other online wars in the future. I am currently the acting CO, if you are interested in joining please PM me here or page me in HL.
http://www.bestanimations.com/Humans/Skulls/Skull-06.gif

Future-
08-23-2004, 04:40 PM
Fighters: Corsair

Bombers: B-25, B-29


Corsair has to be fully flyable, otherwise I won't touch it.
In case of the bombers, I don't care much if they are fully flyable or ai, as long as they are mostly correct modelled, with some descent loadout options.

Bombs away!
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/sonar.gif

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

wickedpenguin
08-23-2004, 07:41 PM
Fighters: Corsair, just because I've read so much about her. Also, any twin engine fighters - Japanese Ki, US P-38, etc.

Bombers: Avenger for sure - I've been wanting to fly a dedicated torpedo plane forever. And definitely the B-25J or H - I'm looking forward to wreaking havoc with 8 .50's and a 75mm. Really, who needs bombs???

Squadrons/Bases: I'd love to be an honorary member of the Cactus Air Force. Mud and leeches, here we come!

"Fear is the mindkiller"
- Dune
----------------------------------
Wicked Penguin Corporation
Web - Flash - Multimedia - DVD Authoring

Nimits
08-23-2004, 07:59 PM
TBD for bombers (if they ver make it flyable) otherwise TBF

P-40B for fighters.

chris455
08-23-2004, 08:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snacky_195th:

"I would expect the Corsair to handle much like what the P47D-27 does now in AEP with the Corsair having slightly better turn and roll ability. Same wasp engine for both aircraft".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I agree, except for turn rate. IIRC, the F4U was the worst turning single in the US arsenal,
even the stately Jug could outturn it. Other than that, it was pure death. Whistling death.

I will almost certainly stay faithful to my Jug, except for specific missions (like the Yamamoto shootdown mission I'm salivating to create in FMB when PF comes out!) wherein I will choose the mighty Lightning.

I'm reading "Kearby's Thunderbolts: the Story of the 348th Fighter Group in WWII" and am pleased to learn there will be many SWPA historical missions for the P-47 available when PF arrives.
Chris



http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p47n2.jpg

heywooood
08-23-2004, 08:10 PM
Wildcat first...


BtW - does anyone know whether the skinners will get the new PF planes' skin blanks ahead of the release date so they can make some templates and skins for 'em ...you know...ahead of time?... like was done with the B-25's before the last patch.



http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Bull_dog_
08-23-2004, 08:12 PM
F4U for fighter...a little Hellcat action but mostly the bentwing bird...Spit Mk VIII if we get one...

For bombers...I'm really looking forward to the Beaufighter and A-20.

You know, with the Mossie done, it could make it into PF if Oleg wanted it to...in 1943, Mossie Mk VI fighter Bombers went to Burma...I just don't know if we'll get a map or not to compliment or warrent its inclusion. If that took place, I'd be in a Mossie for sure.

chris455
08-23-2004, 08:17 PM
Heywood,
Speaking of the F4F, I'm happy for you that you finally get to have your favorite mount. You've waited a long time and you deserve it. And a sweet looking thang she is too judging from the dev updates! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p47n2.jpg

heywooood
08-23-2004, 08:37 PM
Yep - its a Grumman thang, bro.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h97000/h97485.jpg

.,,and cruisin' with the top down...
http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/g380000/g384058.jpg

sorry dial-uppers http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif


http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"Check your guns"

Gunny124
08-23-2004, 08:46 PM
Corsair. VMF-124 was a Corsair squadron.

Tater-SW-
08-23-2004, 09:04 PM
F4F. I flew F4Fs almost to the exclusion of any other type in WarBirds.

As for bombers? B-25s and A-20s. Kates will be fun too, if somewhat dangerous &lt;G&gt;.

tater

chris455
08-23-2004, 09:31 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by heywooood:
Yep - its a Grumman thang, bro.

RE: 2nd photo: I didn't realize the F4F was still being used in the PTO as late as '44. Learn sumthin every day! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

LEXX_Luthor
08-23-2004, 09:59 PM
Gibbage's Ki~43

I can't wait to see heywooood groaning and cranking that WildCat landing gear handle round 33 times or so--little beads of Water breaking out on that foooorhead as that Zero dives on him with that gear cranked up only half way.

Hades_Dragon
08-23-2004, 10:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>the F4U was the worst turning single in the US arsenal,
even the stately Jug could outturn it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not true. The F4U was very agile for its size, and very agile overall. It was no Zero or Oscar as far as low speed manuveribility, but yet nothing really was. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It was more manuverable than a P-51 and could out manuver a 190 even easier. Not to mention most pilots describe it as having a very light stick force and extremely responsive.

[This message was edited by Hades_Dragon on Mon August 23 2004 at 09:24 PM.]

310th Falcon
08-23-2004, 10:11 PM
Not sure which mount yet...I'm leaning forward the Hellcat. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
It has some very nice lines...F4U would be second.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> In case of the bombers, I don't care much if they are fully flyable or ai, as long as they are mostly correct modelled, with some descent loadout options.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
For the moviemaking side..it is very cool and important that we get at least a couple of flyable bombers. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Able to make better movies with inside cockpit shots in the bombers. Flyable B-25, B-29 , or a B-17 would be real nice. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Well it is a nice dream anyway. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif


Best Regards http://www.cup.com/kobayashi-dojo/english/aisatsu.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/michaejlt/FalconSig.gif

Charlie901
08-23-2004, 11:45 PM
HE-111 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fehler
08-23-2004, 11:52 PM
Well, I will probably stick with axis aircraft. After all, we all know who won the war, so what fun is it flying a side that you know is supposed to win? For me, it kind of takes the challenge out of it.

I still like the Ki-84 A and B because it's sort of a Japanese 190 with better turn.

At least I wont have difficulty locating targets since most of you guys will be flying US/Brit... heh

The Wildcat would be my American ride for sure.. it's so ugly it's handsome!

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

The_Ant
08-24-2004, 02:04 AM
Anything that can destroy an american plane : )

problably will be flying ki 61 and (ki 100 if its in the game)and the zero models of course.

[Si Vis Pacem,Para Bellum = If you wish for peace, prepare for war.]

Yellonet
08-24-2004, 03:12 AM
B-25 probably.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/yellonet/Yellonet_sig.jpg

WOLFMondo
08-24-2004, 04:11 AM
I'll probably stick to whatever P47's we get but for a long while the Beaufighter will be my ride for ground attack and anti shipping.

I'll definatly give every plane a try though. Not sure which IJN plane to pick to start with though.

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

VFA-195 Snacky
08-24-2004, 07:10 AM
Hey Chris, I found this.
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html

Give it a read, very interesting stuff. I will say that comparing aircraft depends on who you ask, but there is some very good info here with sources given.
Corsair seemed to be more manuverable than people think. Logic says it had to be to compete against planes like the KI84 and A6M. Of course this article says the P38 could out turn any aircraft in Europe! I wouldn't even think about trying that in a P38 in FB.LOL

One thing is for sure. If the Corsair is "Off" from everything that is printed about it in the books people here are not going to let it go.lol You think folks whine now? lol if they don't get the Corsair right this place will explode.lol

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snacky_195th:

"I would expect the Corsair to handle much like what the P47D-27 does now in AEP with the Corsair having slightly better turn and roll ability. Same wasp engine for both aircraft".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I agree, except for turn rate. IIRC, the F4U was the worst turning single in the US arsenal,
even the stately Jug could outturn it. Other than that, it was pure death. Whistling death.

I will almost certainly stay faithful to my Jug, except for specific missions (like the Yamamoto shootdown mission I'm salivating to create in FMB when PF comes out!) wherein I will choose the mighty Lightning.

I'm reading "Kearby's Thunderbolts: the Story of the 348th Fighter Group in WWII" and am pleased to learn there will be many SWPA historical missions for the P-47 available when PF arrives.
Chris



http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p47n2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/b_a_presidential_first.jpg
"Navy1, Call the Ball- Roger Ball."

xanty
08-24-2004, 07:58 AM
I am looking forward to many planes. I like variety, and PF won't be an exception.

Fighters: Ki-43 and A6M for sure, as well as F4F Wildcats and F2A Buffaloes. Maybe the P-400 too.

Bombers: so many... Vals and Kates, as well as the Avenger and SBD. The Beaufighter, A-20 and G4M Betty for sure. I hope we get some more flyable as well! Will fly them all.

Also, maybe in some patch we will get "utility" planes like seaplanes or reconnaisance..

Online, I'm unsure yet, maybe the Wildcat and the Hayabusa.

Would love: Beaufort, TBD and Ki-21/Ki-48

http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_sig.jpg

KaRaYa-X
08-24-2004, 08:07 AM
early-war: Wildcat AND Zero... just can't wait to fly both

mid-war: Ki-61 and Ki43 - I'm eager to know how these birds will perform

late-war: very difficult decision - well, probably all of them; the F4U, the F6F, the Ki84, the Ki100, etc.

--= flying online as JG52&lt;Karaya-X =--

JG7_Rall
08-24-2004, 08:10 AM
Fighters: F4F, F6F, F4U. Navy birds for me, baby http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I do plan on flying the P-40B a bit however.

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/16502.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

geetarman
08-24-2004, 08:26 AM
Earlier P-38's, if we get them. I want to recreate the Rabaul missions.

F4F for the Navy stuff.

Not as interested in the late war match-ups.

Japanese - the Tony!

chris455
08-24-2004, 08:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hades_Dragon:

Not true. The F4U was very agile for its size, and very agile overall. It was no Zero or Oscar as far as low speed manuveribility, but yet nothing really was. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif It was more manuverable than a P-51 and could out manuver a 190 even easier. Not to mention most pilots describe it as having a very light stick force and extremely responsive.

[This message was edited by Hades_Dragon on Mon August 23 2004 at 09:24 PM.]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The FM2 Wildcat was the tightest turning of the major US types in WWII, the F4U was the worst turner behind P-38 and P-47, this according to AHT, if I recall correctly. If someone has a copy of Americas' Hundred Thousand they can verify. I'm talking about turn rate, specifically. We all know the Corsair was a great fighting aircraft.

Chris

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p47n2.jpg

GerritJ9
08-24-2004, 09:52 AM
KNIL Brewster B339D with 1200 hp Cyclone of course http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ........ though I will also try the CW21B to see if it's any good.

Chuck_Older
08-24-2004, 10:21 AM
F3F, anyone?

I will look forward to the Maddox treatment of the F4F and F4U as well. I can still remember taking on 4 Zekes at 50 feet and winning in CFS2...something had to be wrong...

Any Naval aircraft should be quite an interesting aircraft to fly off of and onto a carrier...and maybe some non-Navy ones, too. I'm sure I can put a P-51 down on a large carrier. I think.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Scarn3
08-24-2004, 10:26 AM
That will be a tough decsion for me.
My three favorite aircraft will be there.

The P-40B, The Wildcat and the Hellcat. I guess it will depend upon the server restrictions if any.

Tooz_69GIAP
08-24-2004, 10:46 AM
Probably the B-25 and/or A-20 (in russkie colours http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif )

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
Executive Officer, 69th GIAP
Za Rodinu!
Petition to stop the M3 motorway through the Tara-Skryne Valley in Co. Meath, Ireland (http://www.petitiononline.com/hilltara/petition.html)

AlexDavies
08-24-2004, 11:02 AM
dutch buffalo

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/grayal/alexcopy.jpg

LEXX_Luthor
08-24-2004, 11:51 AM
Also, Ki~43 with combat flap and gear down, then disable those controls, and we have kinda Flyable Ki~27 to join up with AI Ki~27 formations. The Open Canopy feature will help.

--or maybe as A5M if we can figure a way to let Ki~43 down on carrier.

Ki~61 for 1940 He~100D missions and 1941 Moscow escort missions (Britain and USSR lose by Default http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).

Don't know which carrier bomber to use for Su~2 campaign.

Maybe Devastator for R~10.

And, Yak~1 as Spit~1 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DIRTY-MAC
08-24-2004, 02:06 PM
the Curtiss CW-21B DEMON

unseen84
08-24-2004, 02:09 PM
Any dive-bomber or torpedo-bomber I can get my hands on, for both sides.

As for fighters, probably the F4F and Oscar or Tony. I'm curious to fly the Rufe as well.

Baco-ECV56
08-24-2004, 02:51 PM
I Like in FB/AEP, will be a jack of all tradeshttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
My favorites are of course the B-25, and I am dying to try that A-20...
I love multi engines of course so I´ll stick to wahtever version of P-38 I can get.
NAVY: all of them of course, but primarilly Wildcats.. Top me its teh most representative of all, adn I prefre the earlly years of the war.

Now If my fears are rigth, and people get the Corsair they want instead of teh Corsair that was, I won´t fly it at all.

Since I hate to fly all mighty planes. I don´t fly LA 7,s or Spits in FB becouse of that reason.

Don´t botehr to tell me that the Spit this or that, I don´t like to fly a plane that has all the aces in its sleave wether realistic or not.

And if the so much anticipated Corsair gets the "Maddox treatment" I most certenlly will not fly it.

And the srry part is that if it doesn´t this site will indeed explode.

Sorry don´t mean to attack the gorgeous plane or my fellow forum mates. Its just the way I feel.
I just don´t like to fly a plane that was striped of its realistic limitations.

Don´t get me wrong I know the Corsiar was a bad mothe##" and could chew everithing that encoutered in the PTO, but no plane can turn good, climb good, don´t loose any energy or recover it instantaneouslly, all at the same time. Its just a phisics problem http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. You could either have an energy fighter or a turning fighter, tehre is no fighter that was the best at both things at the same time.

Ankanor
08-24-2004, 03:43 PM
Grumman Ironworks all the way http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/11.gif
F4F, F6F, Avenger, maybe Dauntless and Kate, just for the fun

O, how I want to hold you,
To feel your breath
And hear your laughter in my ears.
To look into your eyes
And see myself in there.
Caress you with my lips.
To hold your hands in mine
And find the hidden smile in your dimple
That makes you irresistible
And stops the breathing in my chest.
To be with you when you are weeping,
To wipe away the tears and take away the sorrow.
To watch you while you are sleeping
Like there is no tomorrow.

And with a tender kiss to wake you up.

Essen,23.02.2004 20:53

PBNA-Boosher
08-24-2004, 03:59 PM
Without a doubt, SBD Dauntless, P-40B, B-25's, A-20's, and F4F's.

Boosher
_____________________________
"So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you..."
-Gandalf

VMF-214_HaVoK
08-24-2004, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VFA-195 Snacky:
If your expecting the Corsair to be like the 190 I think your in for a surprise. The Corsair only had problems when it was wheels down. Once you cleaned it up and got in the air it was supposed to be a very nice plane to fly and required little effort.
It was called the Ensign eliminator because of initial carrier ops, not because it was hard to fly in combat.
I would expect the Corsair to handle much like what the P47D-27 does now in AEP with the Corsair having slightly better turn and roll ability. Same wasp engine for both aircraft.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/b_a_presidential_first.jpg
"Navy1, Call the Ball- Roger Ball."



<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Corsair easily outturns the FW outdives it and can also outclimb it. There is no manuver the FW could do that the Corsair couldnt easily follow. But the same is not true for the FW. The Corsair's rollrate is pretty much on par with the FW, only a few degrees slower.

So like you I dont expect it to fly like a FW but I dont expect it to fly like a JUG either. I expect it to be a good deal better.

=S=

http://www.flightsuits.com/images/patches/patch_vmf214a.jpg

www.vmf-214.net (http://www.vmf-214.net)
(The Original BlackSheep Squadron of IL-2/FB/AEP/PF)

joberrick
08-24-2004, 05:29 PM
SBD and F4U all the way!

tagTaken2
08-24-2004, 08:54 PM
The cherry blossom suicide machine.

Hell, every plane I fly becomes a manned suicide attack aircraft. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

VMF-214_Pappy
08-24-2004, 10:13 PM
No brainer here for me. I think ill stick with good ole USMC F4u Corsair, even it is a pig and modeled like orginal FB 1.0 P47D. Been waiting for this plane for 4 years, and our member VMF-214_Snopipe designed the model of the aircraft.

http://www.flightjournal.com/images/plane_profiles/corsair/history.jpg

www.vmf-214.net (http://www.vmf-214.net)
Semper Fi
(The Original BlackSheep Squadron of IL-2/FB/AEP/PF)

Chuck_Older
08-25-2004, 08:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Baco-ECV56:


Now If my fears are rigth, and people get the Corsair they want instead of teh Corsair that was, I won´t fly it at all.



And if the so much anticipated Corsair gets the "Maddox treatment" I most certenlly will not fly it.

And the srry part is that if it doesn´t this site will indeed explode.

Sorry don´t mean to attack the gorgeous plane or my fellow forum mates. Its just the way I feel.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're coming across as very elitist and snobbish- you fly intriguing, difficult to master aircraft because it is a challenge for you, but the lickspittle slobs that make up the rest of the PF population will have their Xwing Corsair and drool on themselves in a daze of ecstasy as they reminisce about their lobotomies.

It is clear you disagree with the way 1C:Maddox models their aircraft. May I suggest you find a sim or game you like?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/BBB3.jpg
Killers in America work seven days a week~
Clash

Zeke52c
08-25-2004, 11:23 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Spitfire V111

" I can feel that Merlin just purrin'

I can hear that 20 mil. talkin' wham, wham.

I can see that green Oscar burnin' "

Luvly Jubly!

Baco-ECV56
08-25-2004, 01:55 PM
Chuck, you got me wrong. I was not trying to sound elitist or snoobish. Sorry if I did.

I LOVE IL-2 FB series. I just can´t get enough of it.

And by the way I am a terrible virtual pilot, I am average at best And I am shot down even on LA-7s or Spitfires.

And Olegs Sims are the closest thing to reality we have. No doubt about that.

I onlly feel that some planes have no disadvantages so they are no fun to fly.

No, I am not a Masochist http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I just would like to feel that there is no unbeatable plane, and that every kite has its weak spot, even if very subttle...

Again sorry if it sounded the wrong way. And mi criticism refers onlly to very few planes, the IL-2 series is by far the best WWII simulation ever and it keeps getting better every day http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Edit: typing errors.

Jason Bourne
08-25-2004, 02:07 PM
bomber/heavy fighter: P-61 if i can, otherwise B-25

fighter: whatever works for me

...there followed one of those moments in history, the sort when the entire earth seemed to stop its spin, hearts paused, and even the people who'd been screaming their loyalty to a man already dead would remember only silence.

wickedpenguin
08-25-2004, 02:54 PM
P-61 = a big resounding "hell YES". Please bring this baby to life Oleg!

"Fear is the mindkiller"
- Dune
----------------------------------
[b]Wicked Penguin Corporation[/b[
Web - Flash - Multimedia - DVD Authoring

meh_cd
08-25-2004, 04:13 PM
Either the Wildcat or Hellcat for me, if no other reason than to flee the already huge Corsair bandwagon... Umm, other than that there are so many others that I can't choose.

JG7_Rall
08-25-2004, 11:28 PM
meh_cd

I find myself clicking on posts I see you replied to just to stare at your avatar....mmmmmmmmmmm

http://home.comcast.net/~nate.r5388/16502.jpg
"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!
Flying online as Hutch51

meh_cd
08-26-2004, 10:39 AM
Why thank you, it is nice to see someone else who likes Lindsay. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Rebel_Yell_21
08-26-2004, 12:09 PM
B-25 and A-20 (hopefully B-29 as well)

Anything that flies off a carrier!

http://www.303rdbga.com/art-ferris-fortress-S.jpg
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

meh_cd
08-26-2004, 12:30 PM
I can't wait to try and land bombers on a carrier. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
08-26-2004, 12:39 PM
P-47N. be sure http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/P-47N-318FG.JPG

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/ThreeEscorts.JPG

Your worst nightmare. P-47N, P-38L and P-51D http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

btw @ Lindsay http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/heart.gif

http://www.5thairforce.com/e107_files/public/p51darkj.jpg

"Notice how much larger the HL installed file is; this is because it contains powerful commands used on your machine via remote control" - Galen Thurber http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

EmbarkChief
08-26-2004, 01:15 PM
F4U all the way, even if its horribly porked. Not because its the best, coolest, or fastest, but for the simple fact its a Marine bird. Which for me, has personal meaning.

WUAF_Badsight
08-26-2004, 11:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:

Corsair easily outturns the FW outdives it and can also outclimb it. There is no manuver the FW could do that the Corsair couldnt easily follow. But the same is not true for the FW. The Corsair's rollrate is pretty much on par with the FW, only a few degrees slower.

So like you I dont expect it to fly like a FW but I dont expect it to fly like a JUG either. I expect it to be a good deal better.

=S=<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LIAR , LIAR PANTS ON FIRE

The older FW190 outran and outclimbed both of the Navy's brand new fighters despite the fact that they were using water injection (this caused the Corsair to even overheat in the test) while the Focke was not using boost or "erhote notleistung" if so equipped at all.

Also note that this test was done in 1944 against a FW190 Jabo that entered production at the autumn of 1942. By 1944 the Corsair and Hellcat would be facing 2100-2240hp FW190A-8, A-9s and even worse - the FW190D-9 - but probably not the crash-landed and repaired Jabo that this test was done against.

So a beat up Jabo version FW-190 out ran a Corsair with WEP cranked

The FW190 could easily out-roll the Corsair at most combat speeds (250-350 mph) and this is based on the British AFDU report directly comparing the roll rates of the Corsair with the FW190 in which the British warned the Navy/Vought about the 190 rate of roll.

The Corsair closes the gap at high speeds (around 350mph) but then falls back again as speed increases even more&gt; due to aileron imbalance at high speeds for the Corsair.

Here is what Cpt. Eric Brown, probably the only man in the world with significant stick time in both of these birds, said about a fight between them:

"Corsair II Versus Focke-Wulf 190A-4

This would be a contest between a heavyweight and a lightweight fighter, with virtually all the advantages on the side of the latter. Having flown both aircraft a lot, I have no doubt as to which I would rather fly. The Fw 190A-4 could not be bested by the Corsair.
The Fw-190A4 was arguably the best piston-engine fighter of World War II. It is a clear winner in combat with the Corsair."

From Duels in the Sky

*Edit* . . . i expect the Corsair (the second worst turning US Fighter) to fly a lot like the Jug is now in FB , just with slightly better turn & a lot better climb
.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

[This message was edited by WUAF_Badsight on Thu August 26 2004 at 10:56 PM.]

Giganoni
08-27-2004, 02:05 AM
The Ki-43, where when I shoot something down with 2 mgs, I'll get a better since of accomplishment (kinda like the G50) than wasting something with 8 mgs or four cannons. Of course I'll try everything, but if they come out with the Ki-45 someday that will become my main bird. Be fun to do anti-shipping and ground attack with the various armaments.

http://img74.photobucket.com/albums/v225/giganoni/IL2/giganoni2.jpg

Drone_44th
08-27-2004, 06:06 AM
Parachute...

WOLFMondo
08-27-2004, 06:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:

"Corsair II Versus Focke-Wulf 190A-4

This would be a contest between a heavyweight and a lightweight fighter, with virtually all the advantages on the side of the latter. Having flown both aircraft a lot, I have no doubt as to which I would rather fly. The Fw 190A-4 could not be bested by the Corsair.
The Fw-190A4 was arguably the best piston-engine fighter of World War II. It is a clear winner in combat with the Corsair."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't really argue with that.

OT: I wonder why he prefered the A4 to the A6?

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-27-2004, 06:49 AM
I'm looking forward to flying the Wildcat and the Corsair. Sadly, I suspect it will be like FB and in online rooms most people will want to do the same thing...regardless of what the odds are.

I flew Blue the other night on our server for no other reason than they were outnumbered 2:1 almost all night. Seems everyone wants to fly the Spits and Stangs and can't count past ten...go figure.

I like flying those ...erm...easiertofly, more forgiving planes myself now and again, but I'm not going to imbalance the server any more than it was. I only wish others would do the same.

I read many of the posts in this thread and haven't seen one single post extolling the virtues of the Zero despite it's superiority in the early years of the war. I hope this isn't a premonition.

TB


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

zuiho
08-27-2004, 07:08 AM
Fighter: first A6M2 model 21 (my super-favourite), seconds Ki-61 and Ki-84
Dive bomber: D3A Val
Torpedo bomber: B5N Kate
Medium bomber: first G4M Betty, second B-25 J machine-guns ship

GerritJ9
08-27-2004, 07:32 AM
The Zero WAS superior to nearly all opposing fighters in the early stages of the Pacific war.......... but I'm not so sure it was as superior as is widely assumed. I think the most important advantage the Japanese had at that time was the skill of the IJN pilots, whose training was without doubt of a far higher standard than that of their opponents (or arguably, ANY air arm in the world at that time). Add to that superiority in numbers (odds of 2 or 3 to 1 in IJN favour weren't uncommon) and it becomes clear why the Allies couldn't stop the IJNAF and IJAAF from sweeping the skies clean of all opponents.
The extremely high standard of training came at a price though: as combat losses mounted, the IJN training establishments had to dilute the quality of training for the sake of numbers- otherwise they simply could not even begin to meet the demand. Add to this growing Allied numbers, better training for their pilots and slowly but surely superior aircraft and by 1943 the picture was reversed.

Atomic_Marten
08-27-2004, 08:06 AM
I'll fly everything. But I figure primary would be Ki-43, Kate, and Wildcat.

Fly c****y http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
08-27-2004, 08:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GerritJ9:
The Zero WAS superior to nearly all opposing fighters in the early stages of the Pacific war.......... but I'm not so sure it was as superior as is widely assumed. I think the most important advantage the Japanese had at that time was the skill of the IJN pilots, whose training was without doubt of a far higher standard than that of their opponents (or arguably, ANY air arm in the world at that time).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hold the phone Kimosabe!
I must disagree here. The training administered by the Luftwaffe (and even the US for that matter) was easily comparable or even better than that given by the Japanese services. Their superiority was more in their experience and tactics.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Add to that superiority in numbers (odds of 2 or 3 to 1 in IJN favour weren't uncommon) and it becomes clear why the Allies couldn't stop the IJNAF and IJAAF from sweeping the skies clean of all opponents.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Except at Henderson field on the "canal". That was almost the Pacific version of malta. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

TB


Our FB server info: http://www.greatergreen.com/il2

WOLFMondo
08-27-2004, 08:40 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thunderbolt56:
I'm looking forward to flying the Wildcat and the Corsair. Sadly, I suspect it will be like FB and in online rooms most people will want to do the same thing...regardless of what the odds are.

I flew Blue the other night on our server for no other reason than they were outnumbered 2:1 almost all night. Seems everyone wants to fly the Spits and Stangs and can't count past ten...go figure.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As the RAF say, your not outnumbered, its a target rich environment.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://bill.nickdafish.com/sig/mondo.jpg
Wolfgaming.net. Where the Gameplay is teamplay (http://www.wolfgaming.net)
Home of WGNDedicated

Kartveli
08-27-2004, 10:59 AM
American? th eCorsir without a doubt...just hope it doesnt get mangled, ala P38FB, or ubered, ala La7FB....and Mossie, if it is in the game...

Japanese? almost al of em....but especially looking foward to the Ki43 Oscar...better turning than any zero, and excellent climb...I think 5,000ft/min to 20k...
and also, if PF wil lhave it, the Ki27 nick, and I would luv a A5m Claude....


I knew a man who was a mechanic, RAF in Burma...he said when they took over old IJA airbases with old planes abandoned there, they often found the tires of planes were stuffed with grass...lack of spares and rough strip conditions kept tires flat, so JP had to do something about it....

The_Gnat
08-27-2004, 12:23 PM
Ki-84. Behaves a little like my precious Fw 190.

And I have to say, there is something with P-40s.

http://hem.bredband.net/b232411/JG1yellow5FW190A8.jpg

meh_cd
08-27-2004, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Thunderbolt56:
I'm looking forward to flying the Wildcat and the Corsair. Sadly, I suspect it will be like FB and in online rooms most people will want to do the same thing...regardless of what the odds are.

I flew Blue the other night on our server for no other reason than they were outnumbered 2:1 almost all night. Seems everyone wants to fly the Spits and Stangs and can't count past ten...go figure.

I like flying those ...erm...easiertofly, more forgiving planes myself now and again, but I'm not going to imbalance the server any more than it was. I only wish others would do the same.

I read many of the posts in this thread and haven't seen one single post extolling the virtues of the Zero despite it's superiority in the early years of the war. I hope this isn't a premonition.

TB


_Our FB server info:_ http://www.greatergreen.com/il2
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmmm. I have experienced the opposite during the few times I have been on. I am almost always blue (LW), and I was quite surprised to see that most people switched to blue on the next map. Why? Instead of their Ponies or Spits they got to have the 262. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Oh, and I can't wait for the Wildcat or the Hellcat. The Wildcat with its canopy slid-back just looks AWESOME.

Reschke
09-05-2004, 10:22 PM
Gimme an F4U-1A with the VF-17 skin any day of the week and we will see who lives and who drops. Well that is once I get the hang of the PF flight model.

Lcdr. Reschke
CO VF-17 " The Jolly Rogers"
The Jolly Rogers (http://www.vf-17.org)

Snootles
09-06-2004, 12:27 AM
Everything and anything, but I'll probably end up flying dive-bombers, torpedo-bombers, and fighters with bomb and rocket loadouts the most. I love fighters but I suck at maneuver combat. I love big level bombers but I suck at operating those bombsights.

[This message was edited by Snootles on Mon September 06 2004 at 12:20 AM.]

heywooood
09-06-2004, 12:49 AM
http://www.nctd.com/sneakpreviews/06s-solstice-hero.jpg

everyone knows I will fly anything Grumman..

but my ride next November?..Pontiac Solstice http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v250/heywooood/ac_32_1.jpg
"check your puns"

Kuoster
09-06-2004, 12:55 AM
This is gunna sound PrEtTy dumb, but what flyable aircraft will be ingame? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v134/Kuoster/Sigs/KuostA.jpg

[A]lpha [N]ovember [D]elta [Y]ankee

Dagger_3
09-06-2004, 01:19 AM
Personnaly, I am a pro-Corsair persone, but when I get in a "turret" type of mood, then a B-17(preferably a F or G model) or B-25, or hell any thing with a tail gun would soot me fine.

As for carriers, (witch I have been dieing to try) starting at a wiledcat, then Hellcat and finnaly the corsair (witch I hear could be pretty *****y).

OldMan____
09-06-2004, 05:22 AM
FW190.. and will never change that! Anyway will be fun in some servers to attcal american carriers with Me262 :P

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

BigKahuna_GS
09-06-2004, 12:19 PM
S!



---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chriss---the F4U was the worst turning single in the US arsenal,
even the stately Jug could outturn it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------



Dragon---Not true. The F4U was very agile for its size, and very agile overall. It was no Zero or Oscar as far as low speed manuveribility, but yet nothing really was. It was more manuverable than a P-51 and could out manuver a 190 even easier. Not to mention most pilots describe it as having a very light stick force and extremely responsive.
[This message was edited by Hades_Dragon on Mon August 23 2004 at 09:24
__________________________________________________ _______________________



Well said dragon !



__________________________________________________ _________________________
Chris--The FM2 Wildcat was the tightest turning of the major US types in WWII, the F4U was the worst turner behind P-38 and P-47, this according to AHT, if I recall correctly. If someone has a copy of Americas' Hundred Thousand they can verify. I'm talking about turn rate, specifically. We all know the Corsair was a great fighting aircraft
__________________________________________________ __________________________


Yes the Wildcat turned very well, against the A6M2 it was inferior and needed team tactics to survive. Against the best turning japanese aircraft you needed speed to extend. I have AHT and yes in that one turn ranking it list the F4U last. I am not sure "how" this turn test was conducted becuase it goes against pilot reports of being able to outurn the P51 and P47 below 20,000ft.

"Flying the Old Planes" by Navy pilot Frank Tallman, Barret Tillmans Corsair book and "Aviation History Magazine" all have articales about the Navy F4U pilots conducting fly offs in the skys off the east coast vs Jug and Mustang drivers. After getting beaten by the Corsair, Jug and Pony drivers would point up to high alt--a smart Corsair pilot would stay below 20,000ft.



__________________________________________________ _________________________
Badsight--LIAR , LIAR PANTS ON FIRE
The older FW190 outran and outclimbed both of the Navy's brand new fighters despite the fact that they were using water injection (this caused the Corsair to even overheat in the test) while the Focke was not using boost or "erhote notleistung" if so equipped at all.
Also note that this test was done in 1944 against a FW190 Jabo that entered production at the autumn of 1942. By 1944 the Corsair and Hellcat would be facing 2100-2240hp FW190A-8, A-9s and even worse - the FW190D-9 - but probably not the crash-landed and repaired Jabo that this test was done against.
__________________________________________________ ______________________



This comparison between the F4U-1D & Hellcat vs 190A-5/U4 has been brought up many times.

http://web.cetlink.net/~howardds/id90.htm

http://web.cetlink.net/~howardds/28260b00.gif

While the FW190 and Corsiar are both excellent planes you left the meat out of the report.

The 190A-5/U4 was stripped and repainted, changed weight to the eqivelent of a fighter not a fighter bomber and was found to be in very good condition.

The Corsair F4U-1D had not had it's propeller changed out to the new advanced design for greater climbing ability and overall speed ehancement.

In horizontal speed the Corsair was a full 30kts faster on the deck over the 190.

SPEED CONVERSION
30 Miles (International, nautical) per hour equals 34.5234 Miles (statute) per hour. Not until about 25,00ft did the FW have a 6kt speed advantage.

Contrary to Capt.Brown, the Navy pilots rated the Hellcat & Corsair superior in overall combat ability. Top of pg.4 This was not the first time nor the last that US pilots strongly disagreed with Capt.Browns assesments of US aircraft performance.


Manueverability--pg4
The Hellcat and Corsair were able to easily out-turn and out-loop the 190 and had overall greater combat manueverability.

What you also have to remember is that the F4U's greater mass will equate into greater energy in the vertical, much like the P51 & P47 zoom climbs. The Corsair was known to retain it's energy quite well. While the 190 has greater firepower, I also like the idea that the Corsair can still hit hard and has the advantage in manueveability to evade if needed.

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html
http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Corsair2.jpg


______________________



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

BigKahuna_GS
09-06-2004, 01:38 PM
S!


Speed correction--the Corsair was 25kts faster on the deck over the 190:

SPEED CONVERSION
25 Miles (International, nautical) per hour equals 28.7695 Miles (statute) per hour.

SPEED CONVERSION
25 Miles (statute) per hour equals 40.2336 Kilometers per hour.

There is 5 pages to this report and it is good to read them all to get the comprehensive test results. It appears that the 190 stalled abruptly with no warning during many of these manuevering tests.

Note the wingloading of the 190 compared to the Hellcat and Corsair :

FW190=44.1/lbs, Hellcat=37.1/lbs, Corsair=38.1/lbs

The reason the Corsair was overheating was simply due to the fact that the fuel mixture was too lean. It would be nice to have the auto-rich fuel setting the US planes had for flying with higher power settings.
http://web.cetlink.net/~howardds/28060b00.gif


_____



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

BigKahuna_GS
09-06-2004, 02:00 PM
S!

Did it again --lol

The Corsair was 46.3kph faster than the 190 on the deck.

SPEED CONVERSION
28.7695 Miles (statute) per hour equals 46.3 Kilometers per hour

____



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

wuggle85
09-06-2004, 02:10 PM
my ride will be the hellcat with the face on the front of it

firehttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gifstarter

Dagger_3
09-06-2004, 07:26 PM
IM SO CONFUSED!!!!

Japan never used the Fw-190, let alone had them, unless I am mistaken. The JAAF 46' might have had a squdron of 262's they would have bilt from blueprints, but the Fw-190 as far as I know, was NEVER in the pacific theaeter!
Is the 190 in the game? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

icrash
09-06-2004, 08:07 PM
The B-25 with the big 75mm and the Kate.

Panelboy
09-06-2004, 09:54 PM
The chart in "America's Hundred Thousand" is being misrepresented by a number of people here - It is a relative minimun turn radius comparison at what looks like 3g stall speed for each aircraft. 118 kts for FM2, and 172 for F4U. It has nothing to do with turn rate and little to do with combat capability IMO.

A cessna 152 or Fokker triplane would handily beat the FM2 on that chart, so there must be more to it, lol.

BigKahuna_GS
09-07-2004, 05:52 AM
S!
__________________________________________________ _________________________
Panelboy posted 06-09-04 20:54
The chart in "America's Hundred Thousand" is being misrepresented by a number of people here - It is a relative minimun turn radius comparison at what looks like 3g stall speed for each aircraft. 118 kts for FM2, and 172 for F4U. It has nothing to do with turn rate and little to do with combat capability IMO.
A cessna 152 or Fokker triplane would handily beat the FM2 on that chart, so there must be more to it, lol.
__________________________________________________ __________________________



Thanks for shedding light on this subject. I will have to re-read the chart in AHT. It did not simply make sense as pilot accounts of the Corsair being more manueverable over the P51 & P47 below 20,000 was commonly known.

_______



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

jpatrick62
09-07-2004, 09:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by chris455:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snacky_195th:

"I would expect the Corsair to handle much like what the P47D-27 does now in AEP with the Corsair having slightly better turn and roll ability. Same wasp engine for both aircraft".
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree, except for turn rate. IIRC, the F4U was the worst turning single in the US arsenal,
even the stately Jug could outturn it. Other than that, it was pure death. Whistling death.

I will almost certainly stay faithful to my Jug, except for specific missions (like the Yamamoto shootdown mission I'm salivating to create in FMB when PF comes out!) wherein I will choose the mighty Lightning.

I'm reading "Kearby's Thunderbolts: the Story of the 348th Fighter Group in WWII" and am pleased to learn there will be many SWPA historical missions for the P-47 available when PF arrives.
Chris
http://members.cox.net/miataman1/p47n2.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Where ya getting that info from? The Corsair could easily out-turn the 47, P-38, and P51 in the horizontal plane, especially at low alts. It could out turn the Zero at higher alts and high speed. There's a lot of misinformation about WW2 fighter turn rates, thankfully fighter tests were performed and recorded to clear his up. Read the "Report of the 1944 Interservice fighetr conference" conducted at Patuxent Naval AIr Station. Over 40 pilots from Britain, the Navy, the Army, and manufactureres participated. The P51 was knocked by several aas having a poor turn rate, as was the P47 and P38. The F4U out turned all three with relative ease. Naval tests with the F6F, P51, and even the FW190 backed up these assertions as well.
Tests (http://www.geocities.com/slakergmb/id3.htm)

ZG77_Nagual
09-07-2004, 10:12 AM
I fly corsairs, p38s and some p39s. Eventually I'll probably focus on the p38 because the others are too easy. (finally tried a mustang online last week - good grief!)

r0bman
09-07-2004, 11:02 PM
i can't wait to fly me a p-40B in a perfectly accurate AVG skin... drooool

http://www.radford.edu/~rtommason/avatar.jpg
know your AVG history (http://flyingtigersavg.com)

WUAF_Badsight
09-08-2004, 12:13 AM
lol Kahuna

this test was done in 1944 against a FW190 Jabo that entered production at the autumn of 1942. By 1944 the Corsair and Hellcat would be facing 2100-2240hp FW190A-8, A-9s and even worse - the FW190D-9 - but probably not the crash-landed and repaired Jabo that this test was done against.

So a beat up Jabo 1942 version FW-190 out ran a Corsair

what say you is apples were compared with apples ? . . . . . or do you expect everyone to believe a 2000Hp FW190 in brand new condition to have performed even worse ? ! ? ! hahahah

i expect the Corsair (the second worst turning US Fighter) to fly a lot like the Jug is now in FB , just with slightly better turn & a lot better climb

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BigKahuna_GS
09-10-2004, 01:33 AM
S!


Ok I'll try again :

While the FW190 and Corsiar are both excellent planes you left the meat out of the report.

__________________________________________________ _______________________
Badsight--So a beat up Jabo 1942 version FW-190 out ran a Corsair
__________________________________________________ _______________________



The 190A-5/U4 was stripped and repainted, changed weight to the eqivelent of a fighter not a fighter bomber and was found to be in very good condition.


Incorrect except for climb. The Corsair F4U-1D had not had it's propeller changed out to the new advanced design for greater climbing ability and overall speed ehancement. Overheating of the Corsair was simply caused by too lean a fuel mixture.

***In horizontal speed the Corsair was a full 25kts faster on the deck over the 190.

The Corsair was 46.3kph faster than the 190 on the deck.

SPEED CONVERSION
28.7695 Miles (statute) per hour equals 46.3 Kilometers per hour


Contrary to Capt.Brown, the Navy pilots rated the Hellcat & Corsair superior in overall combat ability. Top of pg.4 This was not the first time nor the last that US pilots strongly disagreed with Capt.Browns assesments of US aircraft performance.


Manueverability--pg4
The Hellcat and Corsair were able to easily out-turn and out-loop the 190 and had overall greater combat manueverability.



__________________________________________________ _________________________
Badsight--By 1944 the Corsair and Hellcat would be facing 2100-2240hp FW190A-8, A-9s and even worse - the FW190D-9 - but probably not the crash-landed and repaired Jabo that this test was done against.
what say you is apples were compared with apples ? . . . . . or do you expect everyone to believe a 2000Hp FW190 in brand new condition to have performed even worse ? ! ? ! hahahah
__________________________________________________ __________________________


As the 190 powerplants improved steadily so did the Corsair & Hellcat in both speed and manueverability. The 190 series continued their trend of even heavier wingloading and less manueverability in the late models.

The earlier model 190s were more manueverable than the late model 190s and both the Hellcat and Corsair easily out-turned & out-looped it. So I think the Hellcat and Corsair pilots would be more than happy to engage late model 190s, especially the F4U-4 vs 190D-9.

F4U-4 :

Maximum speed
F4U-1: 417 mph @ 19,900 ft.
F4U-4: 446 mph @ 26,200 ft.

The 4- displays a 29 mph speed advantage, but more importantly it does it a much greater altitude. The Corsair is actually 10 mph faster than the Mustang at the P51Ds best altitude.

Rate of climb:
F4U-1: 3250 fpm
F4U-4: 4170 fpm

The F4U-4 climbs at a rate 20% better than the P51D. This is due to a more efficient 4 bladed propeller and up-rated powerplant.



__________________________________________________ __________________________
Badsight--i expect the Corsair (the second worst turning US Fighter) to fly a lot like the Jug is now in FB , just with slightly better turn & a lot better climb
__________________________________________________ __________________________



Well your expecting the wrong F/M then.

The AH turn test was conducted at only 3Gs with very low air speed.

"In terms of maneuverability, all models of the Corsair were first rate. The FU4-4 was better than the FU4-1 series. Why? More power and better performance in the vertical. Very few fighters, even pure fighters such as the Yak 3 could hang with the F4U-4 maneuvering in the vertical. Its terrific climbing ability combined with very light and sensitive controls made for a hard fighter to beat anytime the fight went vertical.

Maneuverability:
The F4U-4 was one of the very best. According to Jeffrey Ethell: "Of all WW2 fighters, the Corsair was probably the finest in air to air combat for a balance of maneuverability and responsiveness. The -4, the last wartime version is considerd by many pilots that flew the entire line to be the best of them all. Indeed, the F4U-4 had few if any equals in the business of ACM (air combat maneuvering)"

Ease of Flight:
The Corsair was much less a handful than the P51D when flown into an accelerated stall, although it was not as forgiving as the Hellcat. Torque roll was no worse than it's comtemporaries.

Roll Rate:
The F4U also rolled well. When rolling in conjunction with powerplant torque, in other words rolling left,



http://web.cetlink.net/~howardds/28260b00.gif

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/F4U-4.html

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Corsair2.jpg



_______



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

WUAF_Badsight
09-10-2004, 02:15 AM
i think you going to be one dissapointed dude with Pacific Fighters

or more to the point , i think your going to be one dissapointed dude with the corsair in pacific fighters . . . . .

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

BigKahuna_GS
09-10-2004, 02:59 AM
S!
__________________________________________________ ______________________
Badsight--i think you going to be one dissapointed dude with Pacific Fighters or more to the point , i think your going to be one dissapointed dude with the corsair in pacific fighters . . . . .
__________________________________________________ _______________________


If you know something about the PF F/M of the Corsair--spill you guts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If they have turned the Corsair into a pig of a plane like the early FB P47--well that would just be very wrong.

It is written in many books and numerous pilot reports that the Corsair could out turn both the P51 and P47 below 20,000ft in mock dogfights. The Corsair flew more like a P51 just with a radial engine, but better handeling and lighter stick controls. My dad was one of those pilot reports. An USMC pilot for 30yrs, he served in WW2 in the PTO and flew F9F Panthers in Korea. He said while the Corsair could not turn with the Hellcat, the F4U was much faster and rolled better. He also confirmed what many before had already stated, the dogfighting capabilities of the F4U vs the P51D/P47D below 20k.



______________



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

WUAF_Badsight
09-10-2004, 03:53 AM
http://img71.exs.cx/img71/849/Corsairturning.jpg

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
09-10-2004, 03:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 609IAP_Kahuna:
If you know something about the PF F/M of the Corsair--spill you guts http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If they have turned the Corsair into a pig of a plane like the early FB P47--well that would just be very wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

whats up with you sig part of your posts being bigger than your response part ?

if the Corsair flys just like a FW-190 or a P-47 then it will be entirely correct

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
09-10-2004, 04:05 AM
note that this test was done in 1944 against a FW190 Jabo that entered production at the autumn of 1942

thus my apples with apples request

too which you replied:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 609IAP_Kahuna:
As the 190 powerplants improved steadily so did the Corsair & Hellcat in both speed and manueverability. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

F4U-4 WTF ? . . . was it tested against a F4U-4 ??!?!?!?!?

the F4U-1 had 2000 Hp , lets see if it could have repeated its test results against a 2000hp fw-190 ?

or do you expect everyone to believe a 2000Hp FW190 in brand new condition to have performed even worse than a old , crash landed abused Jabo A5 FW-190 !

in that test , generally speaking, the Fw climbed better at high speed, was outrun by the Corsair up to 15,000 ft, easily outturned by the Corsair, and roll was similar

At many altitudes the Corsair and Focke were really close(both were faster than the Hellcat) - not a bad showing for a used and abused Butcherbird

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

tigertalon
09-10-2004, 04:41 AM
Ki61 and Ki100 (hopefully) all the way.

regards, tt

Roast
09-10-2004, 06:17 AM
I think that I'll primarily fly Commonweath aircraft and/or colours in PF. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Fighters: Spitfire & Kiwi Corsair
Bombers: Beaufighter, Dutch Mitchell & Havoc

But I'll buy PF mainly as an add-on to FB/AEP, so that means Havoc & Matchell to bomb/strafe the **** out of the LW over Europe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

Roast

IKP_Cadd
09-10-2004, 07:00 AM
STRINGBAG!

Martlet
Firefly

Please please please

Retro.LNK.-
09-10-2004, 08:11 AM
I want to fly the Kate, Val, and Dauntless and Devastator. For fighters, I'm a huge Zero fan, but will fly a Hellcat for a while since we've had Zeros in AEP. Other than that I'll try out a Raiden.

LW_Black4

VFA-195 Snacky
09-10-2004, 08:41 AM
I'll fly whatever american aircraft badsight deams overmodelled just to tick him off.lol http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/b_a_presidential_first.jpg
"Navy1, Call the Ball- Roger Ball."

Arm_slinger
09-10-2004, 08:48 AM
Oh god where to start???

The Beaufighter, MkVIII,, seafire, B25 G, Havoc, corsair, hellcat... hell everything

I think the Beay will be the top choice though

242Sqn_Kye on HL

"Target for Tonight" the definitive night bombing simulation ever, featuring the RAF's Bomber Command.

www.nightbomber.com/forums (http://www.nightbomber.com/forums)
Also the home of 242 Squadron

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v371/Kyebromley/untitled4.bmp

BigKahuna_GS
09-10-2004, 11:40 AM
S!

__________________________________________________ ________________________
Badsight-if the Corsair flys just like a FW-190 or a P-47 then it will be entirely correct
__________________________________________________ ________________________



Incorrect !

Ok you are not reading the test report are you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Under K - General Opinon of the Corsair/Hellcat vs the 190 :

Contrary to Capt.Brown, the Navy pilots rated the Hellcat & Corsair superior in overall combat ability. Top of pg.4 This was not the first time nor the last that US pilots strongly disagreed with Capt.Browns assesments of US aircraft performance.


Under L - Suggested Tactics to use against the 190 :
Manueverability--pg4

The Hellcat and Corsair were able to easily out-turn and out-loop the 190 and had overall superior combat manueverability. If the 190 is attacked, the only way to evade is to roll and dive away. If the Corsair or Hellcat are attacked they can evade through either tight turning or looping maneuvers. The Corsair and Hellcat should make every effort to close with the 190 on both offense and defense.


I dont know how you got confused but this test was a F4U-1D vs 190A-5/U4.



The reason I brought up the F4U-4 was becuase you said "apples were compared with apples" ?


So compare the best 190D-9 (1945 model) vs F4U-4 both late model war planes.



I have Americas Hundred Thousand & Report of the Joint Fighter Confrence also--the turn chart if you read it again is at very low speed and only pulling 3G's. The Corsair out turned both the P51 and P47 below 20K -be sure.

__________________________________________________ _____________________
Panelboy posted 06-09-04 20:54
The chart in "America's Hundred Thousand" is being misrepresented by a number of people here - It is a relative minimun turn radius comparison at what looks like 3g stall speed for each aircraft. 118 kts for FM2, and 172 for F4U. It has nothing to do with turn rate and little to do with combat capability IMO.
A cessna 152 or Fokker triplane would handily beat the FM2 on that chart, so there must be more to it, lol.
__________________________________________________ _________________________



_____



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

Tvrdi
09-10-2004, 02:16 PM
Zero! cause its a f challenge for Il2 vet fighting in Zero in late war.....u know why hehe, but never mind i luv such disadvantage situations http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/icon_twisted.gif

BigKahuna_GS
09-14-2004, 12:12 AM
S!

This is from SimHQ on ACM :

http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_011b.html

Notice the turn rate of the F4U-1C vs P51D

Let's apply that logic to two new fighters, the Aces High F4U-1C and the F6F-5. Examination of Fig7 shows that the Hellcat is the angles fighter, while the Corsair is the energy fighter. It is also important to point out that those designations are relative, and can change depending on the opponent. For example, let's consider what would happen if we compared the F6F with the Spitfire, or the F4U with the P-51.

http://www.simhq.com/_air/images/air_011b_1.jpg


In the case of the F4U versus the P-51, its role has changed. Examination of the overlay shown in Fig8 reveals that the F4U is now the angles fighter, but the advantage is only around 1dps, not enough to make this an easy fight by any means. However, the P-51 doesn't have enough superiority at high speed to realize a significant energy advantage, so while the P-51 is the energy fighter in this case, the distinction is less clear. In this case, the P-51 can't allow the fight to get slow, but will also have difficulty employing energy tactics against the F4U. It is possible in situations like this, that other factors relating to roll rate, climb rate, stall characteristics, initial energy advantage, weapons effectiveness, or perhaps some difference in pilot skill, are more likely to have a greater influence on the outcome than pure maneuverability. Many pilots would approach a fight like this as if it were a similar aircraft engagement. However, if I were flying the P-51 against the F4U, I would be nervous of the combination of higher turn rate, smaller radius, and the mighty cannons of the 1C model, and make good use of that modest extra speed.

http://www.simhq.com/_air/images/air_011b_2.jpg



_____



"Aggressiveness was fundamental to success in air-to-air combat and if you ever caught a fighter pilot in a defensive mood you had him licked before you started shooting."
Cmdr. David McCampbell, USN

McCampbell's nine kills in 90 minutes set a record in aerial warfare history for a single mission that is believed to stand today. He is the nation's top Navy ace and fourth-leading ace, behind three Army Air Force pilots.
_______
http://www.militaryartgallery.com/Images_b/b-zero-fighter-sweep.jpg
"Angels of Okinawa"

actionhank1786
09-14-2004, 01:13 AM
I'm gonna have to learn the 3 us Staple fighters (Hellcat, Corsair, and Wildcat) for the squad fights. After that...i'm flying everything!!!!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/Actionhank/New-Tag.jpg

Actionhank
~Aaron White

Ketalar
09-16-2004, 05:58 PM
I'll try out all the newbies, especially the Corsair (since everyone's talking about it) and the two Cats. In the end though I'll stay faithful to the P-40 family. Wet or dry, low or high, I'll always love those birds. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif