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brefcourte
10-30-2012, 02:33 PM
Who is Eve, where is Eden, have we found her at this place?
In addition, do you really think the AC-storyline has been planed since the first game?

POP1Fan
10-30-2012, 03:33 PM
Who is Eve, where is Eden, have we found her at this place?
In addition, do you really think the AC-storyline has been planed since the first game?

I haven't played the game so I might be very wrong. From what I understood, "Eve" was the key they had to find to open the Temple.
And yes, I really think the AC3 storyline was planned from the beggining, everything I have seen in AC3 seems to point at it.

Layytez
10-30-2012, 05:21 PM
Remember the "She is to accompany you through the gate but she does not lie within our site" ? Thats Juno i think. Eve was not explained, Eden was not explained, the truth video in AC2 had no purpose in the later games, "the sun...YOUR SON" was not explained,why Desmonds high first civ dna was important was not shown, everything we done before the grand temple was basically pointless and how we saved the world was cheap.

Nightmare8767
10-30-2012, 05:41 PM
Ehh... Desmond having big amount of First Civ DNA was explained in Revelations. Otherwise you can't activate the Apple.

Eurostar7
10-30-2012, 05:42 PM
Remember the "She is to accompany you through the gate but she does not lie within our site" ? Thats Juno i think. Eve was not explained, Eden was not explained, the truth video in AC2 had no purpose in the later games, "the sun...YOUR SON" was not explained,why Desmonds high first civ dna was important was not shown, everything we done before the grand temple was basically pointless and how we saved the world was cheap.

+1 to this. Everything we did in the previous games was pointless. I dont know if it was the horrible writing of the story or if they wanted TOWCB to screw everything up on purpose. But even that wouldnt make sense because they can travel through time so they know what would happen.

Layytez
10-30-2012, 05:57 PM
Ehh... Desmond having big amount of First Civ DNA was explained in Revelations. Otherwise you can't activate the Apple.
In fact in Brotherhood it kind of was. When he first got the apple his dna communed with it. So that may explain it little but we dnt know if that was required in order to open the door. I dont understand how we were centuries late when they could have said that in the flipping synch nexus. We were centuries too late to save the world when you were the ones who decided to talk to us that far in time. If they didnt know how things will end in our time how did they know what Juno was doing as soon as we went through the door...

Nightmare8767
10-30-2012, 06:04 PM
I believe that the Vault/Sync Nexus messages were actually holograms, while when Minerva and Juno appeared those were them really.

Layytez
10-30-2012, 06:17 PM
I believe that the Vault/Sync Nexus messages were actually holograms, while when Minerva and Juno appeared those were them really.

Holograms that actually acknowledged Desmond was there ?

POP1Fan
10-30-2012, 06:18 PM
I believe that the Vault/Sync Nexus messages were actually holograms, while when Minerva and Juno appeared those were them really.

You are right.

Eurostar7
10-30-2012, 06:21 PM
In fact in Brotherhood it kind of was. When he first got the apple his dna communed with it. So that may explain it little but we dnt know if that was required in order to open the door. I dont understand how we were centuries late when they could have said that in the flipping synch nexus. We were centuries too late to save the world when you were the ones who decided to talk to us that far in time. If they didnt know how things will end in our time how did they know what Juno was doing as soon as we went through the door...

They knew how things would end. In AC3 they said they could time travel and they went back and forth trying out a few possibilities.

Layytez
10-30-2012, 06:25 PM
They knew how things would end. In AC3 they said they could time travel and they went back and forth trying out a few possibilities.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2mdxGQb2OI

Skip to 11:45.

Eurostar7
10-30-2012, 06:48 PM
Ehh... Desmond having big amount of First Civ DNA was explained in Revelations. Otherwise you can't activate the Apple.

ALL Assassins have a large amount of First Civ DNA, not only Desmond.......The First Civ said that they procreated with the humans and thus creating the Assassins. Either Juno or Minerva fell in love with a human, and created a prehistoric Animus and put him in it but his mind was destroyed.

Eurostar7
10-30-2012, 06:56 PM
The Hollow, i know that, i completed every AC game 100%.

AC3's ending contradicts what was said on 11:45 in the video you posted. When TOWCB said they could time travel and see the fate of the world on Dec 21st 2012, some things that were said in previous games no longer made sense.

Layytez
10-30-2012, 06:58 PM
The Hollow, i know that, i completed every AC game 100%.

AC3's ending contradicts what was said on 11:45 in the video you posted. When TOWCB said they could time travel and see the fate of the world on Dec 21st 2012, some things that were said in previous games no longer made sense.

That's what i'm saying. What we done in the previous games was pointless if we are already late in saving the world.

Eurostar7
10-30-2012, 07:10 PM
In previous games they said 'Desmond, you can save the world!' but in AC3, they said "You are centuries too late." If that isnt horrible writing, i dont know what is.

They didnt do a good job with AC3 Desmond story. They did a horrible job actually. Remember in ACB the red footprints outside of monterggioni for example? That was supposed to be Lucy going to 'get supplies' instead going out, getting into a car to talk to Abstergo agents, that explains why the footprints stopped suddenly. The developers tried to hide it in interviews saying it was just for players to find Auditore mansion easily (that was BS lol) then in ACR DLC, BAM! We find out Lucy was a Templar. This was good writing. Made you think, you automatically invest in the story and search deeper for clues, replayability of the game increases. AC3 seems like they didnt think things through.

Maybe i will change my mind after playing this. Its still a few days away to get this, i will thoroughly play it and get 100% on it and try to find any hidden things then i will speculate some more. I really hope they hid information somewhere that the leaked videos didnt show.

Layytez
10-30-2012, 07:14 PM
I hope we get a cannon dlc that actually explains at least something related to adam and eve.

brefcourte
10-31-2012, 08:35 PM
i'd really like to know, further ideas?

BUS DR1V3R
10-31-2012, 10:05 PM
Here are a couple questions that I have off the top of my head.


***SPOILERS BELOW***


Brotherhood
What about the whole "awaken the 6th" thing? Only "she" remains? Did I miss where the "6th" was awakened and "she" was found?

Revalations
In the end cut-scene Desmond has some glowing glyphs on his right arm(the same one used to touch the orb at the end of this III). What was that about. Also when TOWCB say, "Pass my words into your hand, that's how you'll gain entry", what does that mean? Entry to what? The Apple was used to get into the temple, and the key was used to get to the orb.

III
It seemed to imply that Minerva's interests were aligned with the Templars'. How could this be if Assassins were descendants of TOWCB? How could TOWCB create an Animus that didn't work if humans could? How are you left playing as Conner at the end of the game if Desmond is dead and not in the Animus?

I have to say that I feel completely cheated after cultivating this character[Desmond] to be an assassin for 4 games and then getting to use him for 3 or 4 missions(that weren't even good missions). This ending, much like the rest of the game, felt incredibly rushed didn't feel like a complete thought. The ease with which they disposed of Desmond leaves a bad taste in my mouth and has turned me away from the series, unless I missed something drastic somewhere.

Nightmare8767
10-31-2012, 10:41 PM
BUS, I believe you get something wrong in this. Can't comment on Brotherhood's since I'm still trying to make it have some sense (although they did try 6 methods of saving the world), but on the rest:

-That was First Civilization DNA activated.
-We know the Apple opened the Temple, but perhaps only Desmond could activate the Apple in the right way. A key has to be turned to a side, god knows what an Apple of Eden might have to do!

III:
-Minerva didn't want at all having Juno free and running around the world. She'd enslave Humanity and try to take over the world. She insists that after she abandoned her work, she did give a last look into the Future to see what would happen (that horrible cutscene. Those humans :P). She thought there was absolutely no way to have some peace in the world. In other words: For her, it was clear: Whatever Desmond did, it doomed mankind.
-TWCB didn't create an Animus. Abstergo did, they simply based it off First Civilization machines.
-Someone's hacked into the Animus trying to connect it to a network...

BUS DR1V3R
10-31-2012, 11:51 PM
BUS, I believe you get something wrong in this. Can't comment on Brotherhood's since I'm still trying to make it have some sense (although they did try 6 methods of saving the world), but on the rest:

-That was First Civilization DNA activated.
-We know the Apple opened the Temple, but perhaps only Desmond could activate the Apple in the right way. A key has to be turned to a side, god knows what an Apple of Eden might have to do!

How does DNA activate? The rest of the game is based around science [fiction I know], and not "magic", but DNA activating seems like magic to me.



III:
-Minerva didn't want at all having Juno free and running around the world. She'd enslave Humanity and try to take over the world. She insists that after she abandoned her work, she did give a last look into the Future to see what would happen (that horrible cutscene. Those humans :P). She thought there was absolutely no way to have some peace in the world. In other words: For her, it was clear: Whatever Desmond did, it doomed mankind.
-TWCB didn't create an Animus. Abstergo did, they simply based it off First Civilization machines.
-Someone's hacked into the Animus trying to connect it to a network...

If the world was doomed no matter what he did wouldn't she have known her plea would have been in vein?

It showed Juno creating a device for her husband that was described as being very similar to the animus, but it did not work because it made his mind "fragile to the touch". So it would seem that the humans were smarter than TOWCB in that respect.

Someone has hacked into the animus? It would still need Desmond's DNA to interact with Conner, unless someone else in his family tree is connected to the Animus.

I get what your saying with these answers, but in all honesty they are all still speculation. I would expect these "visions" to carry more weight in the game. They make a point to tell Desmond what he needs to do, but then it just kinda gets pushed aside without any concrete events that highlight what they have "foretold". There are just a bunch of events that could be loosely interpreted as the events spoken about.

When the players have to try to make sense of events from 2 or 3 games ago still something is wrong with the story telling.

Nightmare8767
10-31-2012, 11:58 PM
How does DNA activate? The rest of the game is based around science [fiction I know], and not "magic", but DNA activating seems like magic to me.



If the world was doomed no matter what he did wouldn't she have known her plea would have been in vein?

It showed Juno creating a device for her husband that was described as being very similar to the animus, but it did not work because it made his mind "fragile to the touch". So it would seem that the humans were smarter than TOWCB in that respect.

Someone has hacked into the animus? It would still need Desmond's DNA to interact with Conner, unless someone else in his family tree is connected to the Animus.

That's the point: Abstergo has had more time to work on it. Anyways, what they tried to do wasn't an Animus, but a machine to traspass their minds into software/conciousness in a computer. And you see how bad Sixteen ended up, so...

On the DNA part, not quite. What I mean is that the DNA reacts and makes the First Civ genes effects "active". Basically it means Desmond could use the Apple correctly.

Eurostar7
11-01-2012, 12:10 AM
BUS, I believe you get something wrong in this. Can't comment on Brotherhood's since I'm still trying to make it have some sense (although they did try 6 methods of saving the world), but on the rest:

-That was First Civilization DNA activated.
-We know the Apple opened the Temple, but perhaps only Desmond could activate the Apple in the right way. A key has to be turned to a side, god knows what an Apple of Eden might have to do!

III:
-Minerva didn't want at all having Juno free and running around the world. She'd enslave Humanity and try to take over the world. She insists that after she abandoned her work, she did give a last look into the Future to see what would happen (that horrible cutscene. Those humans :P). She thought there was absolutely no way to have some peace in the world. In other words: For her, it was clear: Whatever Desmond did, it doomed mankind.
-TWCB didn't create an Animus. Abstergo did, they simply based it off First Civilization machines.
-Someone's hacked into the Animus trying to connect it to a network...

TWCB did create an Animus. I think Juno or Minerva said she fell in love with a human and created an Animus for some reason i cannot remember, but it destroyed his mind.

Eurostar7
11-01-2012, 12:13 AM
BUS DR1V3R,

TWCB should have known the world was doomed, one of them time travelled and witnessed Dec 21st. They tried multiple ways to manipulate and change what happened on Dec 21st but the end still resulted in the end of the world. They knew EXACTLY what would happen in the future and everything they did failed. I guess going after Desmond was another failed attempt, but they should have known that already.

My guess is that TWCB gave the Templars the Animus technology. They manipulated humankind's decisions behind the scenes, to find a way to save the world. One of them said they even allowed the Templars to launch the satellite and it failed so they went BACK in time and tried something else, that something was Desmond is what i am guessing.

I just think the writing in AC3 was horrible, Alex Hutchinson should NOT have allowed such things to have occured, he is the director his job was to make a great product.

Nightmare8767
11-01-2012, 12:25 AM
Darn it Eurostar, take a look at some vid at Youtube to refresh your memory :P

-Juno states that her husband, Aita, tried their theory of traspassing the electric impulses of his mind, AKA conciousness to the machine so that they could last forever. That didn't turn out well, and he had to die. However she did continue investigating on it, and ended up taking over the Eye.

-Minerva hasn't fast travelled anywhere. All they attempted to do, was AFTER the first catastrophe. All the messages were recorded AFTER the first catastrophe too.

BUS DR1V3R
11-01-2012, 12:39 AM
That's the point: Abstergo has had more time to work on it. Anyways, what they tried to do wasn't an Animus, but a machine to traspass their minds into software/conciousness in a computer. And you see how bad Sixteen ended up, so...

On the DNA part, not quite. What I mean is that the DNA reacts and makes the First Civ genes effects "active". Basically it means Desmond could use the Apple correctly.

You are making assumptions with these statements. Abstergo had more time to work on it? How do you know? How long did it take Abstergo to build it? How long did it take Juno to build her failed attempt? Got sources for your info? Transferring the consciousness of the user into software is exactly what the Animus does(ie #16[Clay]), a negative side effect being that the consciousness gets "stuck" in the Animus when it fragments the users mind.

Al Mualim, Altair, and Ezio could use the Apple without thier DNA being activated by TOWCB. Saying otherwise is purely speculation and not pointed to anywhere in the actual story.

Layytez
11-01-2012, 12:50 AM
You are making assumptions with these statements. Abstergo had more time to work on it? How do you know? How long did it take Abstergo to build it? How long did it take Juno to build her failed attempt? Got sources for your info? Transferring the consciousness of the user into software is exactly what the Animus does(ie #16[Clay]), a negative side effect being that the consciousness gets "stuck" in the Animus when it fragments the users mind.

Al Mualim, Altair, and Ezio could use the Apple without thier DNA being activated by TOWCB. Saying otherwise is purely speculation and not pointed to anywhere in the actual story.

Minerva did something to Ezios apple in AC2. Desmond activated the apple in ACB. The activation of the apple was probably just to open the Grand Temple to ensure not just anyone with an apple could enter it.

BUS DR1V3R
11-01-2012, 12:54 AM
Minerva did something to Ezios apple in AC2. Desmond activated the apple in ACB. The activation of the apple was probably just to open the Grand Temple to ensure not just anyone with an apple could enter it.

Why would Minerva want him to get into the Grand Temple though? She didn't want him to save the world and unleash Juno. Either way this is still speculation, and examples of poor story logic, unless I'm missing something very big. I hope that I'm missing a chunk of the story somewhere because I was a huge fan of the series until this game. I found it to be difficult to enjoy in all aspects.

Layytez
11-01-2012, 12:55 AM
Why would Minerva want him to get into the Grand Temple though? She didn't want him to save the world and unleash Juno. Either way this is still speculation, and examples of poor story logic, unless I'm missing something very big.

You're not wrong about poor story logic. A waste of three games just be told you're too late.

xx-pyro
11-01-2012, 01:40 AM
Why would Minerva want him to get into the Grand Temple though? She didn't want him to save the world and unleash Juno. Either way this is still speculation, and examples of poor story logic, unless I'm missing something very big. I hope that I'm missing a chunk of the story somewhere because I was a huge fan of the series until this game. I found it to be difficult to enjoy in all aspects.

Minerva didn't know about Juno still being there. Had she not, Desmond COULD have saved the world without releasing her. THAT was Minerva's plan, Juno was an unexpected surprise that caused Minerva to say that he was too late now.

Layytez
11-01-2012, 01:45 AM
So if Juno wasn't there and didn't have the orb, what would have been there instead that would have saved the world ? Or would Minerva say the same thing ?

BUS DR1V3R
11-01-2012, 01:48 AM
Minerva didn't know about Juno still being there. Had she not, Desmond COULD have saved the world without releasing her. THAT was Minerva's plan, Juno was an unexpected surprise that caused Minerva to say that he was too late now.

Then when did Minerva figure out Juno's plan? Because she said they figured out Juno's plan before the Earth was destroyed the first time I thought. Otherwise how could she figure it out if she is dead?

xx-pyro
11-01-2012, 02:46 AM
Then when did Minerva figure out Juno's plan? Because she said they figured out Juno's plan before the Earth was destroyed the first time I thought. Otherwise how could she figure it out if she is dead?

Yes Minerva realized that Juno was trying to take over the world DURING THE TIME OF THE FIRST CIV. She DIDN'T know that Juno had formulated a plan to take it over in Desmond's time. Again, that's what I understood from the ending, I could be seriously mistaken.

BUS DR1V3R
11-01-2012, 03:10 AM
Yes Minerva realized that Juno was trying to take over the world DURING THE TIME OF THE FIRST CIV. She DIDN'T know that Juno had formulated a plan to take it over in Desmond's time. Again, that's what I understood from the ending, I could be seriously mistaken.

It just seemed to me that the way Minerva talked at the end that she had known about it all along. This is another example of players having to fill in parts of the story with perception of super vague events. I was really hoping for way more from the end of Desmond's story than possibly the shortest ending in the series history with the quickest death scene of the series that had no impact on me as a player. Just Desmond saying that he has to do it, nobody disputes it, and he's dead. It was quite lackluster, and the player's are left trying to figure out how we got to this point without TOWCB knowing what was going to happen. I guess time travel isn't that useful after all if things like this can go unnoticed, speaking of Juno's trickery.