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View Full Version : [Article] Interview of David Footman in spong.com



LuckyBide
10-02-2012, 01:43 PM
Spong has interviewed David Footman about the game:
http://spong.com/feature/10110804/Interview-Splinter-Cell-Blacklist

FrankieSatt
10-02-2012, 01:54 PM
The game is definitely broader and deeper than any other Splinter Cell, and there’s definitely a huge stealth component to it. It’s just that nobody’s seen it yet.

THAN SHOW US THE FREAKING STEALTH!!!!!!!

Is it REALLY that hard to do ?

coltcat
10-02-2012, 04:04 PM
As you can see, it’s a progression. There’s definitely a lot more action in Blacklist, but I think it’s also just a different game. Nowadays, all the AAA titles are going towards ‘monster games’. It’s like the Hollywood blockbusters of the summer - if you’re not big, you’re not going to make it.
so? being huge doesn't means it's good.
Bay's Transformers are blockbusters, Mann's Heat is not, and anyone with half a brain can tells which film is better.

Jazz117Volkov
10-02-2012, 04:15 PM
Ubisoft's marketing has plot-holes.

Knot3D
10-02-2012, 04:26 PM
* and not to have too much stuff at night.

* but from the metrics that I read a lot of the hardcore fans were excited about Conviction and thought it was a good balance.

* Itís just that nobodyís seen it yet.


ff-ing brilliant stuff !

Metrics beats Imperial every time :o

SCCUser1978
10-02-2012, 04:39 PM
THAN SHOW US THE FREAKING STEALTH!!!!!!!

Is it REALLY that hard to do ?

Like you said ^^^^ . I agree with you but......maybe they will show us the "FREAKING STEALTH" when the game gets closer to the release.

Om4zd
10-02-2012, 05:14 PM
^^ +1

Frankie patience isn't really your thing is it? XD

SCCUser1978
10-02-2012, 05:23 PM
"I think that our choice with Eric Johnson is a fantastic one. I think he’s a really great Fisher. People just have to give him a chance. You’re going to be really surprised how quickly you get involved with the new character, with our new premise and new story. It’s still Sam Fisher, and I’m not worried at all."

I don't think the choice is a fantastic on at all, a lot of people. a lot of people are TICKED off about the change.

SolidSage
10-02-2012, 05:34 PM
"And, if you make scripted events all about that, no-one’s going to want to skip through them. Everyone’s going to want to watch them. Having said that, as many cinematics as we have, most of them happen during gameplay anyway.But generally, there’s far more minutes of gameplay than story scenes. Where we’re going, it’s nowhere near turning a game into a movies. It’s definitely all interactive, and supporting that experience."

Are you serious??? He honestly NEEDED to say that?? There had better be more game play than scenes IT"S A FLIPPING GAME!!

Oh no, I'm unraveling here.
I want to be positive and I have high hopes for this game but when I hear "we didn't want there to be many night maps" and "you'll be able to do them in stealth AS WELL" and "GENERALLY there's far more minutes of gameplay than story scenes"....it just starts to contradict all the reassurances that have been made to the community.

Stop doing it. I feel like I've been bitten by the negativity Zombie and I'm losing my connection to humanity.

coltcat
10-02-2012, 05:54 PM
"And, if you make scripted events all about that, no-one’s going to want to skip through them. Everyone’s going to want to watch them. Having said that, as many cinematics as we have, most of them happen during gameplay anyway.But generally, there’s far more minutes of gameplay than story scenes. Where we’re going, it’s nowhere near turning a game into a movies. It’s definitely all interactive, and supporting that experience."

I didn't read the entire article through first, now I see it...................... but wait, Whaaat?
Have this gay actually play a game with cutscenes before? NO one wants to watch them after 2nd or 3rd time play through.

SolidSage
10-02-2012, 06:03 PM
I'm just worried about the "generally" part. Please let that be a poor choice of word. PLEASE!

coltcat
10-02-2012, 06:10 PM
I'm just worried about the "generally" part. Please let that be a poor choice of word. PLEASE!
oh yes, forgive me for quoting before fully reads your post.

it's just the fact that Footman thinks Everyone Love to have cutscenes/script events totally shook me. it sounds Sooo out of touch with gaming world.

SolidSage
10-02-2012, 06:15 PM
^ I do like some movies in my game but not every time I play it. They need to be skippable. And I too don't want to play 5 minutes and then watch 5 minutes, repeat, repeat. AC does it good because you can play as long as you like before you initiate the next movie scene. Too many forced sequences is going to be exactly the thing that this community has being complaining about. And he just made it sound like that's how it IS going to be.

I agree that he's out of touch thinking 'everyone' loves cut scenes. It makes him sound like he's either not paying attention or is privy to classified statistical data. Movies ARE good, but movies cutting into play time are not. No one wants to sit down for a quick 30 minutes of game time and have to waste 15 of it on movies.

newhenpal
10-02-2012, 06:18 PM
Footman may get in trouble if he and the boys and girls at Toronto don't shape up. Critics have been pretty harsh on Resident Evil 6 for its heavy focus on set pieces and Capcom's self-assurance that people will totally like them by meddling with the game so you won't ever miss out on their scripted events.

I think the age of quote-unquote "cinematic" games may be coming to an end. Gamers and quite possibly critics are beginning to tire of the propensity of big budget games to one-up Michael Bay.

generalbrown20
10-02-2012, 06:24 PM
I'd be interested in seeing the metrics, I'd be be curious to see how they measured "hardcore" fans. I get the data-driven approach, in fact if there is good data to say that this is the best approach for Splinter Cell, then Ubisoft has my blessing (though, not my money. They'll have to get that from the "other" demographics that they are banking on). Still, I've been in enough project management situations to know that data is often interpreted t to serve a pre-determined agenda...And, I've worked with enough "creative people" to know that this group has an overwhelming tendency to place more emphasis on their own sense of "vision" and artistic expression, than on trying to deliver to what the consumers actually want.

This interview is a mixed bag, though ultimately I'd like to give Mr. Footman credit for at least being more forthcoming than anyone else. Sure, he promted the game, but he was at least willing to directly acknowledge that the game is taking a different course, that the focus is on action over stealth (at least this was clearly and directly implied), even though they will have maps that lend to a stealth approach - suggesting likewise that there will be maps that won't! Additionally, he made clear that the focus was to be story driven. I expect the game to do exactly what Beland and other's have said before, and to take some cues from Uncharted. Personally I enjoy Uncharted, but it is an interactive movie, and that works I think for an India Jones style of game/story. I'm not so sure that it works for Splinter Cell, at least that would be my opinion from the back of room. Lastly, while they may get some consulting from a Clancy writer, I am confident that the Clancy-esq-ness of the story comes as a final priority at the bottom of the writers hierarchy. In other words, they are saying that the story is only "approved" by someone who was licensed to write for the Clancy franchise over the ten year period since Old Tom has sold his brand. To put a finer point on it, since Ubisoft already owns the Clancy brand and can do whatever they want with it, they are appealing to the lowest possibly strained standard of what could pass as a Tom Clancy inspired product. Seriously, Conviction had Steven Seagall all over it, not Clancy. Blacklist has only presented us with a few snippets of similar Hollywood crap dialogue, and only a little bit about the terrorist threat, and a myriad of combat scenes that would never find their way into a Clancy book. Let's not forget, Clancy had to cave in on the original Splinter Cell, on the faux realism of Sam's goggles having both NV and Thermal Vision capabilites. His stories generally followed a moderately realistic expectation on technology and various military/espionage tactics (this is why Sam was so cool). The one man army in the video we have seen would not be even close to real world, and would not be endorsed by Clancy.

SolidSage
10-02-2012, 06:27 PM
There just doesn't seem to be a need to shoehorn them into every 15 minutes of game play. There are too many games that get by pretty well without doing it like that. I'm not opposed to movies at the start and end of levels even, but in the middle of the game play itself, more than a couple of times just completely detracts from the entire purpose of playing games.

I like that we get games AND movies but I don't want a movie that has some game play in it.

Knot3D
10-02-2012, 06:49 PM
First off :

* cinematic director for the game, David Footman

The Creative Director for the game is Maxime Beland of course. Maxime is all about the gameplay.

* "that creates a nice composition for fun gameplay. I don’t come from that background, but I understand dramatic structure".

I think this clarifies why his statements look off base to us. It's understandable, but that doesn't make statements like "uninformed fans & kneejerk reactions" any less ahhum ahhum.


there was a sequence that we planned to record and I ended up scrapping it because it would end up being better as a gameplay segment.

This can unfold in 2 ways ; either it will really flow with the gameplay or it will play out like the 'interactive cutscene' at Price Airfield. If it's like the latter and we can't skip it.... oh boy oh boy...

AJ_Wings
10-02-2012, 07:00 PM
So this is what you get when you bring in a guy who's job is to design fancy cutscenes to talk about actual gameplay. No offense to Mr. Footman, but let Beland or Redding do the talking next time. (And I don't even agree with those guys most of the time.)

shobhit7777777
10-02-2012, 07:11 PM
and not to have too much stuff at night

No

I feel you Sage. That one line shook me up.


From the gist of it (I did read it thoroughly though) Footman is of the thinking that the game would play out like a movie with fixed levels oriented towards either stealth or action...like a rollercoaster ride to provide a focused narrative and cinematic experience...which is fine....for a MOVIE!

Fortunately, Max B (CREATIVE director,as Knot pointed out) has a more positive tone when it comes to supporting the 3 player archetypes.

I DO NOT want "Stealth Only" or "Action Only" maps or missions. "Deus Ex Style" would be perfect, thank you very much.

IMO the action would be a few scripted sequences of bombastic boom booms....between them Stealthy goodness.

Also I want to clarify one thing:


Yeah. I think... there’s been a lot of blowback because the origins of Splinter Cell is very stealth-oriented. That was before Conviction added a little more action to it. I think some were a little uncomfortable and surprised, but from the metrics that I read a lot of the hardcore fans were excited aboutConviction and thought it was a good balance.

No.

THIS Hardcore SC fan loved Conviction for the tactical stealth elements brought in by the Aggro Stealth gameplay loop. I loved the sneaky Panther gameplay, and the inherent fluidity and empowerment. I loved the Predator gameplay of picking the AI off. I loved the Aggro Stealth gameplay of silently wiping out 10 guys in a systematic manner without even a hint of an alarm.

I did not, under ANY circumstances, enjoy, appreciate or like the inclusion of scripted firefights and all out action segments. I ****ing hated the Iraq level.

I did not love Conviction because it added "Action". I loved it because of the gameplay system that added the possibility of playing Aggro Stealth.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
10-02-2012, 07:56 PM
from the metrics that I read a lot of the hardcore fans were excited about Conviction and thought it was a good balance.

Ummmmm......not really. Any of the hardcore fans who enjoyed Conviction generally didn't think it was a good balance -- seeing as there was MORE action and LESS stealth. Blacklist MIGHT be a good balance but Conviction most certainly wasn't. Perhaps a fun game in its own right, perhaps even a fairly good stealth game but definitely NOT a good balance of new and classic gameplay. I know Sage and anyone who shares his opinions (or similar opinions) may disagree with me but you can't honestly say it was a nice balance of Chaos Theory and aggro stealth can you? You couldn't even pick up bodies for christ's sake IN A STEALTH GAME.


One of the aspects of these ‘monster games’ is that there’s lots of different types of gameplay, with lots of modes.

Correct me if I'm wrong but....isn't Uncharted more or less purely an action adventure game? With cinematic things like every minute? And isn't Halo just a shooter where you can use vehicles? What about CoD -- they've been rehashing the same thing for years now...giving you a bunch of guns, claiming it's war, and then EXPLOSIONS YAY!

So tell me....which monster games aside from games like Skyrim which is a god**** RPG!!! have lots of different types of gameplay or lots of modes? The way I see it....even Assassins Creed -- their OWN MONSTER game...is pretty much one type of gameplay really. It may have some small portions of different types of gameplay but those are like...little branches from the whole tree trunk. Their focus is still the same AC gameplay. What about Blacklist? Shouldn't the tree trunk be stealth with small branches of other things coming off the sides? Rather than be one of those threes that almost kind of have multiple trunks, those trunks being 'ghost', 'panther', and 'action' --? Ugh. But I guess all the MONSTER games are full of action. Hurray. This has brought me so MUCH faith in Blacklist now.


The game is definitely broader and deeper than any other Splinter Cell, and there’s definitely a huge stealth component to it. It’s just that nobody’s seen it yet.

Broader and deeper? So there won't be any forced action sequences and instead we can choose how to go about the mission in any way at ANY time? Oh wait....no you guys already confirmed that unlike CT which had almost no forced action sequences -- your game will.... Mmk. But SAR had that too. That's fine. How deep is the variable speed? 5 speeds again? Well that would only make it AS deep as the Legacy games.... so....7 speeds? Holy sh*t! THREE speeds. Whew...who knew that having less freedom while crouched makes the game DEEPER -- take my money now!

There's a huge stealth COMPONENT...? What the f*ck??? A COMPONENT. First of all....it shouldn't be A component...it should be THE entire BASE of the game. Secondly, if it's there. SHOW US. Prove us wrong then. Don't complain that we criticize the game because all you choose to show is action.


Having stealth elements can actually be married quite well with a heavy action-oriented structure.

So action is the structure...not stealth. That quote should be "Having action elements can actually be married quite well with a heavy stealth-oriented structure...you know....like Chaos Theory."

I can't.


We have a very action-oriented extra personal conflict at the beginning of this game as an exciting incident. It’s huge. So it requires great action to equalise the world and bring the world back into balance. It’s a classic arc plot - a very explosive beginning, and the premise demands certain actions from our hero - from Sam Fisher.


Are you f*cking kidding me? I bolded the most important words but WOW. What can I even say about how BRAIN DEAD this B-movie plot sounds and how BRAIN DEAD Footman is if he thinks making comments like THAT and then saying we're having "KNEEJERK" and "UNINFORMED" opinions about that game is 1. a good marketing policy and 2. makes any amount of sense.

-talks about how AWESOME and ACTIONY plot is with it's ACTION-ORIENTED structure with some stealth elements on top
-fans criticize the more action-oriented approach
-calls us uninformed

OKAY Foot Man.


I think it really comes down to the kind of story we wanted to tell, and how we wanted to capture it.

Okay, avoid the question.


At times, you’d have these disconnected, strange performances

No. I can't remember a single time the performance of any of the characters felt disconnected or strange. Lambert, Grim, and Sam all had brilliant interactions and amazing chemistry and I mean even in the cutscenes of Chaos Theory where they're together, not just when they're talking to him remotely. So shut the f*ck up Footman about that because it's not a valid excuse. Did he leave himself or didn't he? IF he did? Fine then. If he didn't? Hire him back.


it’s super-challenging for him

He's Michael Ironside. He can do anything. It wasn't that it was challenging or even SUPER-challenging for him. He either didn't want to do it or would have done it.


The idea is we go from action-oriented gameplay to action-over-dialogue performances, resulting in cinematics that blend back into gameplay. So we never stop, we’re always moving. There’s action, shooting, loading clips

But guys! There's still stealth! Trust us!


we weren’t able to have him do all the elite things...

THIS GAME IS GONNA BE SO 1337 'CAUSE PERFORMANCE CAPTURE AND SHIEEEEETTTT!!!! YEAH! Oh hold on....my good friend Michael Bay is calling...


It was the same thing with Ironside - we could have used Ironside, but it would have had to have been a different story.

AHHHHH So you COULD have used Ironside. It would have been different? Yeah, it would've been better. I mean you may have had to actually slow down gameplay a tad and bring back slower and more methodical movements. What a SHAME that would have been.


I understand how the fans have reacted - no-one likes change, he has a very iconic voice... but all kinds of franchises are doing this now, like Batman and Superman.

Then act like IO, pull your big boy pants and bring him back. Wait....the Batman movies from the late 80's to 90's? And the Superman films that were in the 70's and 80's and then Superman Returns from the 2000's? You mean a movie series about 20 years old from the last (TERRIBLE) installment is 'NOW'...? And a movie series which had a huge hiatus until the early 2000's had a different actor??? NO WAY! I thought they'd just get Christopher Reeve to play the part while he WAS IN A WHEELCHAIR 20 YEARS LATER!!!!

Because nowadays...it seems that unless the film is a reboot...they keep the same actors as much as they can. And only drop them when hey just smply can't. You, on the other hand, have just admitted you had a choice. So screw you.


It’s still Sam Fisher, and I’m not worried at all.

No it's not and of course you're not. You're the guy who thinks discussing how action-oriented the game is and how it's awesome to include stealth on an action base equates to classic stealth.


And, if you make scripted events all about that, no-one’s going to want to skip through them. Everyone’s going to want to watch them. Having said that, as many cinematics as we have, most of them happen during gameplay anyway. But generally, there’s far more minutes of gameplay than story scenes.

But we should still be able to skip them if we want unlike Conviction. Not everyone will, not every time at least. AS MANY as you have? F*cking beautiful. Most of them happen DURING gameplay?? Oh my gosh, Footman! How do you do it? See...I was under the impression that due to large fan outcry that you'd save the cinematics mostly for in between the missions and then leave the mission open for gameplay without cluttering it ful of cinematics! Boy...sure glad you decided to go a different way. I see now that the E3 demo won't be an isolated incident and the rest of the game will be broken up with 3 cutscenes every 7 minutes! AWESOME! There are more MINUTES of gameplay than story? Well how many minutes are we talking here? Like....5 more minutes of gameplay than story scenes? 10? ONE?

See because I feel like the Legacy games had...idk...like...a couple hours more of gameplay than story scenes. Then again...those games weren't MONSTER hits or whatever.

Good job Foot Man! I can see, based on your name, that there's a phrase that perfectly sums up your entire involvement with the game: putting your foot in your mouth. (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/put+foot+in+mouth)

Particularly the part "to say something stupid, insulting, or hurtful" because saying we're uninformed and having kneejerk reactions when all you talk about is how amazing the action-packed, action-oriented, blockbuster game of yours is stupid, insulting to the fans who have been with the series from the start, and hurtful.

Ubisoft -- you'd do well to keep Foot Man from discussing the game further. With one article he has basically destroyed my faith in this game and undid all of the things Zack built up.

Good job Foot Man! I'm now back to square one with this game. Definitely a NOT BUY unless Ubisoft can pull a rabbit out of it's a$$ and completely blow me away but I feel that Foot Man and the rest may believe I want to see a bunch of explosions due to my poor choice of words regarding being "blown away" which sounds like "blow up" -- poor choice of words. Foot Man can relate.

KevinPDZ0916
10-02-2012, 08:39 PM
I am also very disappointed with Footman's comments. And I agree with some of you that everything that Zack built up about stealth has now been flushed down the toilet.

I had already hypothesized that action was their main focus based on all the gameplay / trailers they've shown, it's just disappointing for Footman to really confirm it in this interview.

I don't doubt there will be stealth, but there won't be much of it. IF anything it might be like Chaos Theory in terms of mechanics and gadgets, but that's about it. To me it will be Conviction + a little bit of Chaos Theory = Blacklist.

I hated his comment about "not many night missions". That is what Splinter Cell is about. I was hoping we would get more, honestly. But seeing how the E3 level and the bonus pre-roder co-op map, Arial Sea, both are in the daytime, I can see why there may be not as many night missions.

I don't understand why they do not show stealth. Footman claims it is in there and deeper than ever. He even says they haven't shown that stuff yet. Well, Ubisoft, I'll give you an answer. Show it already. How has this forum community not stressed this enough? If the community of fans is "uniformed" about the game, then it would be wise for Ubisoft to re-think their marketing strategy and get their act together.

One more thing:

Blacklist was revealed at E3, around June 6th with the explosive daytime mission. We got interviews from June through August. In August we got the E3 extended demo. Then we got the Ghost playthrough of the same E3 demo. Then around September 22nd, we got a new trailer. Most of that trailer contained rehashed E3 gameplay from the same daytime mission with only glimpses of the new nighttime stuff and possibly other locations. Now it is the beginning of October. The game is expected to come out around March 2013.

Stealth, nighttime gameplay, co-op, and SvM are yet to be revealed. I know Ubisoft does not want to reveal everything at once. I'm not asking that. What I am asking is that they show stealth on a nighttime mission now. There is no absolutely no reason for this delay. We have waited over 4 months now.

I probably sound impatient. I probably am, but that is because the devs keep promising and promising all these features and then they make statements that contradict what they say. I am sick of it.

coltcat
10-02-2012, 09:08 PM
Come to think about it, why does Ubisoft letting the cinematic director doing the exposition work?
could this be one of those unexpected interview so Footman didn't prepare some decent speech for the response?
cuz I can't remember anytime a gaming media interviews a cinematic director for a game, Maybe, JUST MAYBE that would be the case.
(maybe Kitamura Ryuhei form MGSTS was seriously interviewed, idk, but even so it's only becuz he IS a somewhat interesting/famous cult movie director. not someone who have worked on masterpiece such as...... The day after tomorrow....)

CamberGreber
10-02-2012, 09:08 PM
Can't they at least show some Concept Art for some of these stealth oriented enviroments, gadgets (NVG), and Animations......I mean there just concept art.

CamberGreber
10-02-2012, 09:12 PM
^ I do like some movies in my game but not every time I play it. They need to be skippable. And I too don't want to play 5 minutes and then watch 5 minutes, repeat, repeat. AC does it good because you can play as long as you like before you initiate the next movie scene. Too many forced sequences is going to be exactly the thing that this community has being complaining about. And he just made it sound like that's how it IS going to be.

I agree that he's out of touch thinking 'everyone' loves cut scenes. It makes him sound like he's either not paying attention or is privy to classified statistical data. Movies ARE good, but movies cutting into play time are not. No one wants to sit down for a quick 30 minutes of game time and have to waste 15 of it on movies.

One of the things I feel alot of Amercian Developers think when they look at MGS is that they did alot of Cutescenes and they sold a **** load of copies why can't we.
What I feel they fail to realize is they are not Kojima and can not pull of what Kojima can in terms of cutescenes they are just fooling themselves if they think that. Those crafty Japanese are born directors. :)

CamberGreber
10-02-2012, 09:24 PM
Ummmmm......not really. Any of the hardcore fans who enjoyed Conviction generally didn't think it was a good balance -- seeing as there was MORE action and LESS stealth. Blacklist MIGHT be a good balance but Conviction most certainly wasn't. Perhaps a fun game in its own right, perhaps even a fairly good stealth game but definitely NOT a good balance of new and classic gameplay. I know Sage and anyone who shares his opinions (or similar opinions) may disagree with me but you can't honestly say it was a nice balance of Chaos Theory and aggro stealth can you? You couldn't even pick up bodies for christ's sake IN A STEALTH GAME.



Correct me if I'm wrong but....isn't Uncharted more or less purely an action adventure game? With cinematic things like every minute? And isn't Halo just a shooter where you can use vehicles? What about CoD -- they've been rehashing the same thing for years now...giving you a bunch of guns, claiming it's war, and then EXPLOSIONS YAY!

So tell me....which monster games aside from games like Skyrim which is a god**** RPG!!! have lots of different types of gameplay or lots of modes? The way I see it....even Assassins Creed -- their OWN MONSTER game...is pretty much one type of gameplay really. It may have some small portions of different types of gameplay but those are like...little branches from the whole tree trunk. Their focus is still the same AC gameplay. What about Blacklist? Shouldn't the tree trunk be stealth with small branches of other things coming off the sides? Rather than be one of those threes that almost kind of have multiple trunks, those trunks being 'ghost', 'panther', and 'action' --? Ugh. But I guess all the MONSTER games are full of action. Hurray. This has brought me so MUCH faith in Blacklist now.



Broader and deeper? So there won't be any forced action sequences and instead we can choose how to go about the mission in any way at ANY time? Oh wait....no you guys already confirmed that unlike CT which had almost no forced action sequences -- your game will.... Mmk. But SAR had that too. That's fine. How deep is the variable speed? 5 speeds again? Well that would only make it AS deep as the Legacy games.... so....7 speeds? Holy sh*t! THREE speeds. Whew...who knew that having less freedom while crouched makes the game DEEPER -- take my money now!

There's a huge stealth COMPONENT...? What the f*ck??? A COMPONENT. First of all....it shouldn't be A component...it should be THE entire BASE of the game. Secondly, if it's there. SHOW US. Prove us wrong then. Don't complain that we criticize the game because all you choose to show is action.



So action is the structure...not stealth. That quote should be "Having action elements can actually be married quite well with a heavy stealth-oriented structure...you know....like Chaos Theory."

I can't.



Are you f*cking kidding me? I bolded the most important words but WOW. What can I even say about how BRAIN DEAD this B-movie plot sounds and how BRAIN DEAD Footman is if he thinks making comments like THAT and then saying we're having "KNEEJERK" and "UNINFORMED" opinions about that game is 1. a good marketing policy and 2. makes any amount of sense.

-talks about how AWESOME and ACTIONY plot is with it's ACTION-ORIENTED structure with some stealth elements on top
-fans criticize the more action-oriented approach
-calls us uninformed

OKAY Foot Man.



Okay, avoid the question.



No. I can't remember a single time the performance of any of the characters felt disconnected or strange. Lambert, Grim, and Sam all had brilliant interactions and amazing chemistry and I mean even in the cutscenes of Chaos Theory where they're together, not just when they're talking to him remotely. So shut the f*ck up Footman about that because it's not a valid excuse. Did he leave himself or didn't he? IF he did? Fine then. If he didn't? Hire him back.



He's Michael Ironside. He can do anything. It wasn't that it was challenging or even SUPER-challenging for him. He either didn't want to do it or would have done it.



But guys! There's still stealth! Trust us!



THIS GAME IS GONNA BE SO 1337 'CAUSE PERFORMANCE CAPTURE AND SHIEEEEETTTT!!!! YEAH! Oh hold on....my good friend Michael Bay is calling...



AHHHHH So you COULD have used Ironside. It would have been different? Yeah, it would've been better. I mean you may have had to actually slow down gameplay a tad and bring back slower and more methodical movements. What a SHAME that would have been.



Then act like IO, pull your big boy pants and bring him back. Wait....the Batman movies from the late 80's to 90's? And the Superman films that were in the 70's and 80's and then Superman Returns from the 2000's? You mean a movie series about 20 years old from the last (TERRIBLE) installment is 'NOW'...? And a movie series which had a huge hiatus until the early 2000's had a different actor??? NO WAY! I thought they'd just get Christopher Reeve to play the part while he WAS IN A WHEELCHAIR 20 YEARS LATER!!!!

Because nowadays...it seems that unless the film is a reboot...they keep the same actors as much as they can. And only drop them when hey just smply can't. You, on the other hand, have just admitted you had a choice. So screw you.



No it's not and of course you're not. You're the guy who thinks discussing how action-oriented the game is and how it's awesome to include stealth on an action base equates to classic stealth.



But we should still be able to skip them if we want unlike Conviction. Not everyone will, not every time at least. AS MANY as you have? F*cking beautiful. Most of them happen DURING gameplay?? Oh my gosh, Footman! How do you do it? See...I was under the impression that due to large fan outcry that you'd save the cinematics mostly for in between the missions and then leave the mission open for gameplay without cluttering it ful of cinematics! Boy...sure glad you decided to go a different way. I see now that the E3 demo won't be an isolated incident and the rest of the game will be broken up with 3 cutscenes every 7 minutes! AWESOME! There are more MINUTES of gameplay than story? Well how many minutes are we talking here? Like....5 more minutes of gameplay than story scenes? 10? ONE?

See because I feel like the Legacy games had...idk...like...a couple hours more of gameplay than story scenes. Then again...those games weren't MONSTER hits or whatever.

Good job Foot Man! I can see, based on your name, that there's a phrase that perfectly sums up your entire involvement with the game: putting your foot in your mouth. (http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/put+foot+in+mouth)

Particularly the part "to say something stupid, insulting, or hurtful" because saying we're uninformed and having kneejerk reactions when all you talk about is how amazing the action-packed, action-oriented, blockbuster game of yours is stupid, insulting to the fans who have been with the series from the start, and hurtful.

Ubisoft -- you'd do well to keep Foot Man from discussing the game further. With one article he has basically destroyed my faith in this game and undid all of the things Zack built up.

Good job Foot Man! I'm now back to square one with this game. Definitely a NOT BUY unless Ubisoft can pull a rabbit out of it's a$$ and completely blow me away but I feel that Foot Man and the rest may believe I want to see a bunch of explosions due to my poor choice of words regarding being "blown away" which sounds like "blow up" -- poor choice of words. Foot Man can relate.

YOU GO BoB...Right ON this is the most angry I have seen you......tottaly justified though. I am pissed too.
They should change his name to FootMouth.

FrankieSatt
10-02-2012, 09:30 PM
^^ +1

Frankie patience isn't really your thing is it? XD

Not when the series is supposed to be based on Stealth, we are told that the Stealth has not been shown yet we DO NOT have any assurances that we will even see another Stealth Video before the games release?

With everything that has been say by Footman they NEED to show Stealth and PROVE to us that stealth is in the game and will be viable. That first video isn't enough, we nee more and we need it soon.

sameer_monier
10-02-2012, 09:56 PM
I don't know if this is PR talk or what, but there are some worrying things that I don't like:

--- The directive from the beginning was to have a great variety of gameplay and locations, and not to have too much stuff at night.

well I thought we will have 2 day time missions out of 12 for example, not like 9 out of 12, I think most ((if not all)) of SC fans want more Night Time Missions, I know that not all operations are done in night times, but SC is all about Light and Shadow, and it doesn't really work well in Day Time Missions, I want more darkness to hide and sneaky by guards.

--- That was before Conviction added a little more action to it.

IMO SCC sucked as an action game, firing an AK-47 and Running n Gunning is not as fluid as say Uncharted or any other TPS, but the Agrro-Stealth was 2nd to non, that's where I wanted the series to go, to focus on Aggro & Passive stealth, rather than action, I hope we don't end up with Forced Acton Sequences like in GRFS.

--- As you can see, it’s a progression. There’s definitely a lot more action in Blacklist,

This is the last thing SC needs, especially if it is forced on the player, not to mention it may be Drone Scenes, Air Strikes Moments, and blown up buildings falling apart while we are running through them, not cool at all.

--- Having stealth elements can actually be married quite well with a heavy action-oriented structure. You can’t have a constant stream of fast-paced action scenes

Sadly that is exactly Call of Duty not Splinter Cell, in CoD you got tons of action missions then a mission or two with stealth elements, in SC we should get all stealth moments with very few action moments ((not missions)) where they can be done realistically rather than with a big explosions.

--- It’s a classic arc plot - a very explosive beginning, and the premise demands certain actions from our hero - from Sam Fisher.

Correct if I am wrong, but didn't every SC had a subtle beginning ?!, you will always there to prevent war from erupting, you were always there in a realistic manner rather than "oooh we are being attacked, call Sam Fisher", your mission was never about killing everyone in your way, it was about getting crucial intel about the enemies, so that you could protect the USA/4 Freedoms, and stop the enemy.


Also I am not going to comment on the whole Ironside issue, been there, done that, we know have Eric Fisher, I will deal with it, somehow


I am also worried about the whole Cinematic Experience the industry is going for, he says they are going for an interactive one, but I see otherwise, everything is fixed on me in a cinematic way, I may end up experiencing the same sequence over and over again the same way, just cause they made it interactive, rendering the experience rather cinematic where there is little control from me, press buttons here and there during a scene that could have been better as a cutscene doesn't count as an interactive experience.

Jazz117Volkov
10-02-2012, 10:05 PM
@ Sameer
I agree with you there. Pretty much everything.
Except Uncharted, because its gameplay sux. --__--

At the moment, I think my biggest concern is the day/night mission balance.
I would certainly like a few (read: FEW) daytime missions... but if it's gonna be 50/50, I don't think I'll be super impressed.
And if shadows get shafted... I'll be using the fifth freedom.

Also, for the most part I'm still pinning all this on the marketing department.
Remember all the stupid things Beland said during the Conviction promo?
I honestly don't think that was from the heart. Same deal here.
They're being paid to stick to a plan... unfortunately, the plan sux... bad.

AssassinDOA
10-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Well......that article just confirmed it.

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/539350_528712853821139_2115420569_n.jpg

sameer_monier
10-02-2012, 10:37 PM
@ Sameer
I agree with you there. Pretty much everything.
Except Uncharted, because its gameplay sux. --__--

haha different tastes I think :D


At the moment, I think my biggest concern is the day/night mission balance.
I would certainly like a few (read: FEW) daytime missions... but if it's gonna be 50/50, I don't think I'll be super impressed.
And if shadows get shafted... I'll be using the fifth freedom.
Agree but I am also worried about forced action sequences, how frequent they are, and to what to degree, cause there is a big difference between SAR style of forced action and BL style.


Also, for the most part I'm still pinning all this on the marketing department.
Remember all the stupid things Beland said during the Conviction promo?
I honestly don't think that was from the heart. Same deal here.
They're being paid to stick to a plan... unfortunately, the plan sux... bad.

But I am afraid if this PR talk is actually there in the game, like if all these bad things are going to be big in BL, and what doesn't make sense is how Footman is asked questions that should assure stealth fans, but he is rather assuring action fans and worrying stealth fans, I thought the footage were already targeting the action fans, now even the articles !!!.

I guess we won't find out till early 2013 where Ubi start showing alot of BL close to release like they did with GRFS.

SolidSage
10-02-2012, 10:44 PM
You know what guys, I'm going to pretend this article never happened. Too many people have put too much effort into assuring us that this is simply NOT going to be the case. One guy who obviously isn't very aware of the fan base, and therefore probably isn't very clued into the game itself, doing some random talk, probably doesn't have any real bearing on the facts at all.
So I am covering my eyes and singing "la la la" to this one.

Get me all worked up over nothing.



I did not, under ANY circumstances, enjoy, appreciate or like the inclusion of scripted firefights and all out action segments. I ****ing hated the Iraq level.

No, I f***ing hated that level! (from a game play perspective. I didn't mind the story :)).

Rea1SamF1sher
10-02-2012, 11:02 PM
The irony. If it's right what he said, they just pulled another Conviction 07 situation on Blacklist. The biggest reason it got scrapped is because it lost it's Light&Shadow concept. Having not as much nighttime missions and doing it just for the sake of having variation, which is in itself a bad justification for a Splinter Cell game, is just ridiculous. So you aren't able to have a lot of nighttime missions and a lot of variation throughout these levels? I said it in Conviction, I will say it again: Using poor justifications, like poor Story script or in this case variation, to justify more and more a direction that is going away from the core is really a bad thing.

I actually feel pretty bad now. Pulling another Conviction PR Campaign on the community is not really cool in my opinion. It makes it really hard to believe that the game is using the potential it would actually have. Saying it's deeper and bigger is a huge thing he needs to back up and I really mean it. They told us the same in Conviction (All the Stealth you love is there... NOT) which was not quite the case.

He is confirming something another developer confirmed in a German interview. Action being the focus and Stealth being just so much, so Stealth fans won't be disappointed... doesn't sound really great to me. Yes, maybe I am overreacting. But from Conviction 07 I have seen everything, so I think the reactions from the others and mine are justified.

You make Stealth games better in making Stealth accessible and not through putting Action in. That's just counterproductive.

generalbrown20
10-02-2012, 11:47 PM
"I am also worried about the whole Cinematic Experience the industry is going for, he says they are going for an interactive one, but I see otherwise, everything is fixed on me in a cinematic way, I may end up experiencing the same sequence over and over again the same way, just cause they made it interactive, rendering the experience rather cinematic where there is little control from me, press buttons here and there during a scene that could have been better as a cutscene doesn't count as an interactive experience."


The whole idea of "Cinematic Experience" is a complete failure of the video game industry to appreciate it's own potential. Jade Raymond was making headlines a few month's ago for some comments she made, suggesting that it was time for the industry to "mature". To explore more complex ideas, memes, morals, global/cultural issues, etc. I presume most people were inspired by this, and admittedly I agree with her points as well. Still, all of these things have been dealt with in other fixed mediums, such as literature (going back centuries, if not millenia) and cinema. Video games on the other hand have a far more interesting thing to offer to these issues, that of a dynamic enviroment in which to interact with these things. Granted, the technology isn't up to full snuff of literal artificial intelligence, but the technical landscape is on a forward trajectory of greater of capabilities.

In books, or in movies, the way we approach these complex issues, is from start to finish under the complete control of the author/writer. Creative author's will create a backdrop for the kind of story that they want to tell, that is simultaneously intrinisic to their world-view, and therefore facilitating the cause and effect relationships they have already determined. As a consumer of this material, I am to watch or read from the paradigm being presented, in order to follow the author to their conclusion. Now, of course I can also challenge those idea's as they are presented to me, but the story only allows the predetermined outcome. It's almost like calling into a talk radio program. I may get to voice my opinion, but the very nature of the system that I am engaging in gives precedence to the host's opinion/position, over my own. Contrast that with the potential of video games, where the story is relegated to an explanation of lead up even, an enviroment or space in which to interact, and then a set of decisions to make and act out. Not to any necessary path (action vs stealth), but to test the limits of an enviroment and scenario in a way that allows us to model hypothetical experiences, rather than simply characterizing them through fixed narrative.

For example, take a global issue like economics into consideration. The world is chalk full of rhetoric and predictions in economics, that are largely based on less than empirical ideologies. Is les affaires capitalism truly capitalism run amok, or is it contingent upon certain socio-cultural variables? Economics is after all a behavioral science, rather than a "hard-science", so could video games give us a landscape in which we could model this issue in a way that rhetorical economics never could????

How does this relate to Splinter Cell? I applaude Maxime Beland's idea of creating a game where the player is given control to play the game how they want. I really only dispute him on some of the contraints manifest in Blacklist's presentation thus far. But the ideal he is speaking about is laudable. But how do cut scenes serve this? The response is that they help move the story forward, as though presenting a cinematic story ought to be the end goal. What about an enviroment where an elite team must deal with challenges, the ethics (do the ends justify the means), and the constraints, given the availability of a given set of resources? How quickly and interestingly the story progresses ought to be left to the player, who can and should be given "artistic liberties" to carry out the experience according to their own creative license. In short, for a game like Splinter Cell, the choice to favor story too much is likely an act of selfishness on the part of the writers who are too focused on their own desire to express their interpretation at the expense of bearing the end user in mind. The higher road is to give the player a world to explore, rather than to provide a prescribed binary (pass/fail) "interacted sequence" with timed button execution. Cut scenes laced throughout the gameplay kill this!

sameer_monier
10-03-2012, 12:23 AM
You know what guys, I'm going to pretend this article never happened. Too many people have put too much effort into assuring us that this is simply NOT going to be the case. One guy who obviously isn't very aware of the fan base, and therefore probably isn't very clued into the game itself, doing some random talk, probably doesn't have any real bearing on the facts at all.
So I am covering my eyes and singing "la la la" to this one.

Get me all worked up over nothing.

I hope the game does the same, and be nothing like article :D

CamberGreber
10-03-2012, 12:40 AM
It is crazy after all the work Zack did to convince some of us that they where focusing on stealth this FootMouth had to come along and destroy that confidence.

UBI needs a new marketing team.

MerriIl
10-03-2012, 12:44 AM
It's times like this we need to hear from Zack

http://www.mtv.com/shared/media/news/images/f/Foo_Fighters/sq_dave_scream_times_these.jpg

Jazz117Volkov
10-03-2012, 12:51 AM
Hey guys, I know there's plenty of rage flowing around at the moment, but maybe dial back the finger pointing and name calling.
It was a great way to end one's membership back in 09. So try and keep it cool. :)

@ Merrill
Yeah, I hear ya man.
While I definitely still believe every word Zack has said, there's no denying that things are pretty dire at the moment.
This forum isn't really feeling the love right now.

MerriIl
10-03-2012, 02:40 AM
@ Merrill
Yeah, I hear ya man.
While I definitely still believe every word Zack has said, there's no denying that things are pretty dire at the moment.
This forum isn't really feeling the love right now.

Oh I'm sure no one wants to touch the microphone, so to speak, directly after Footman's rant. They're probably laying low until the flames burn out. I admit that it's a bit discouraging how little we've heard from the devs in the last week or so.

Jazz117Volkov
10-03-2012, 02:48 AM
@ Merrill
Yup, but it's not really the devs fault.
They don't get to speak their mind, or really talk about what they're doing.
They have a list of things to say, and they recite them throughout the ad campaign.

Always makes me think of the Joker.
Footman's rant was part of the plan. y'know?

noodlenerd
10-03-2012, 08:16 AM
"And, if you make scripted events all about that, no-oneís going to want to skip through them. Everyoneís going to want to watch them. Having said that, as many cinematics as we have, most of them happen during gameplay anyway.But generally, thereís far more minutes of gameplay than story scenes. Where weíre going, itís nowhere near turning a game into a movies. Itís definitely all interactive, and supporting that experience."

Are you serious??? He honestly NEEDED to say that?? There had better be more game play than scenes IT"S A FLIPPING GAME!!

Oh no, I'm unraveling here.
I want to be positive and I have high hopes for this game but when I hear "we didn't want there to be many night maps" and "you'll be able to do them in stealth AS WELL" and "GENERALLY there's far more minutes of gameplay than story scenes"....it just starts to contradict all the reassurances that have been made to the community.

Stop doing it. I feel like I've been bitten by the negativity Zombie and I'm losing my connection to humanity.


You know they messed up when Sage gets mad. :P



This interview truly rustled my jimmies, and I was even thinking of pre-ordering. If this is right, and this game is what Footman describes, then it will surely be my goodbye to the franchise. And that's coming from a guy who ordered the oldgen DA from another country, used (it's awesome btw).

MerriIl
10-03-2012, 08:51 AM
^ You ever play the bonus German level?

sameer_monier
10-03-2012, 08:52 AM
It is crazy after all the work Zack did to convince some of us that they where focusing on stealth this FootMouth had to come along and destroy that confidence.

UBI needs a new marketing team.

I vote for Zack to be the head of the new marketing team.

shobhit7777777
10-03-2012, 08:53 AM
Hey guys, I know there's plenty of rage flowing around at the moment, but maybe dial back the finger pointing and name calling.
It was a great way to end one's membership back in 09. So try and keep it cool. :)

@ Merrill
Yeah, I hear ya man.
While I definitely still believe every word Zack has said, there's no denying that things are pretty dire at the moment.
This forum isn't really feeling the love right now.

+1

Also, guys I don't think L/S stealth is gone or even reduced....I think they will have a couple of missions in Daylight, Dawn etc. but the meat of the game would be L/S. It just wouldn't make sense otherwise. IMO the "action-oriented" levels will be in broad daylight.

Jazz117Volkov
10-03-2012, 08:54 AM
And that's coming from a guy who ordered the oldgen DA from another country, used (it's awesome btw).Hah! Same here man.
I got a Spanish version. :D
(mine wasn't used though)

sameer_monier
10-03-2012, 10:30 AM
Here is an interesting comment from Resident Evil 6 Director Hiroyuki Kobayashi


Speaking with 1UP (http://www.1up.com/features/interview-resident-evil-6-masterminds), Kobayashi explained, “With Resident Evil, we’re trying to be as inclusive as possible. We’re trying to reach as many people as possible.”“That makes it hard to maintain a horror feel to it when you’re trying to be inclusive. It is a challenge. I’m not afraid to admit that. We’re trying to see what kind of action we can include in the game and still maintain the horror sensibilities. Trying to blend those together is not an easy thing to do.”
“I believe you can do it,” producer Yoshiaki Hirabayashi chipped in, “ You can make a horror game with mass appeal. But you’re looking at a sort of Venn diagram of people who really like horror and people who really like video games or Resident Evil.”
“Where that comes together… I think you can create a really great form of horror entertainment, but if this were the quintessential horror entertainment, it might not have mass appeal. It’ll have very niche appeal, unfortunately.”
“We’re making games and we need to have mass-market appeal in order to survive. How far do we go into horror before we lose the support of the average player? How far are we going to lessen the horror elements at the risk of losing core fans, including Resident Evil fans?”
“The challenge is trying to push it as close to the edge either way, so that we can satisfy both groups of people. I think we can do it, I really do like horror. I’m fine with pushing it up to 11 in terms of horror. But maybe that’s not what we can do and still be saleable.”
“For instance, if you have multiple scary stages, just one right after another, and you give that to a Resident Evil fan, they’ll be happy with it at first. But they’ll get inured to it after a while. It won’t be scary for them anymore. I think they would lose interest at that point.”
“It’s the same with casual players. They play this and it’s just too scary and they don’t want to keep going. It’s too much. It overwhelms them. In order to make and experience something that these two groups find enjoyable, you have to take a step back from that.”
“You can’t just bombard them with these horror elements. You have to mix in some stages that are more entertaining and fun than pure horror.”


and it is up to you to decide how you feel.

noodlenerd
10-03-2012, 12:57 PM
^ You ever play the bonus German level?


nah, sadly, I haven't. I heard there were two bonus mission, too bad I'll never get to play them. Haven't finished the game yet either, got it two days ago :)

MerriIl
10-03-2012, 05:21 PM
nah, sadly, I haven't. I heard there were two bonus mission, too bad I'll never get to play them. Haven't finished the game yet either, got it two days ago :)

Yes, two! Why wouldn't you be able to play them? Are they exclusive to a certain version?

noodlenerd
10-03-2012, 07:35 PM
Yes, two! Why wouldn't you be able to play them? Are they exclusive to a certain version?

I think there are two playstation 2 exclusive missions, one kidnapping ission and one drug mission. One of them might be a gamecube exclusive, not sure.

CamberGreber
10-03-2012, 09:16 PM
Here is an interesting comment from Resident Evil 6 Director Hiroyuki Kobayashi




and it is up to you to decide how you feel.

He acts as if Horror fans would get sick of constant suspense or Horror which is total bs or atleast a completly misinformed idea. RE fans loved suspense and horror loved dead space 1 and also loved RE2 most of all which is pretty much all horror. So WTF

sameer_monier
10-03-2012, 10:31 PM
He acts as if Horror fans would get sick of constant suspense or Horror which is total bs or atleast a completly misinformed idea. RE fans loved suspense and horror loved dead space 1 and also loved RE2 most of all which is pretty much all horror. So WTF

yup, if it was like what he said then why did we buy RE2, RE3, RE:CVX, all these titles had the same kinda of horror.

and the thing I wanted to bring to attention is how he want to put action in there to attract action fans, alot action for a matter of fact, which doesn't go well IMO with survival horror, a thing even Dead Space 2 is guilty of.

sgg847
10-03-2012, 10:35 PM
Maybe Footman is good but Bigfoot is better.

MerriIl
10-03-2012, 10:51 PM
I think there are two playstation 2 exclusive missions, one kidnapping ission and one drug mission. One of them might be a gamecube exclusive, not sure.

Yeah, there's a mission on a docked cargo ship where Sam has to rescue his daughter and there's a mission where Sam's on some kind of hallucinogen in a supposed German bunker ;)

sameer_monier
10-03-2012, 11:33 PM
Yeah, there's a mission on a docked cargo ship where Sam has to rescue his daughter and there's a mission where Sam's on some kind of hallucinogen in a supposed German bunker ;)

That was crazy, there was this sequence where you go through a door, your vision gets so distorted and there is an enemy right in front of you, he took me down too many times, till I noticed there was actually a pipe above me, Good times :D

SolidSage
10-03-2012, 11:43 PM
Seems like the consensus is Xbox360 for Old Gen DA then. Hope I can get my mitts on those extra levels.
Gonna have to go check Amazon soon.

MerriIl
10-03-2012, 11:49 PM
That was crazy, there was this sequence where you go through a door, your vision gets so distorted and there is an enemy right in front of you, he took me down too many times, till I noticed there was actually a pipe above me, Good times :D

It's a very fun level! I remember that part ;)


Seems like the consensus is Xbox360 for Old Gen DA then. Hope I can get my mitts on those extra levels.
Gonna have to go check Amazon soon.

I've had it for ps2 all these years but may get it for xbox for better graphics. I think the bonus levels are only ps2 though.

LuckyBide
10-04-2012, 04:16 PM
I think there are two playstation 2 exclusive missions, one kidnapping ission and one drug mission. One of them might be a gamecube exclusive, not sure.

Thanks for the information. I just found the game and bought it in a store of my town !
So excited to see those new levels :D

Knot3D
10-04-2012, 04:41 PM
Thanks for the information. I just found the game and bought it in a store of my town !
So excited to see those new levels :D
Srry, but imo those PS2 exclusive levels are so not worth it. THey're just not that good. Better pick up the Xbox version.

Rea1SamF1sher
10-04-2012, 04:41 PM
Here is an interesting comment from Resident Evil 6 Director Hiroyuki Kobayashi
and it is up to you to decide how you feel.
That's something a lot of people said is pretty much impossible. It's wrong to weaken the horror element in my opinion, because that's not making the game more accessible. It's just the easy way out and the easy way out for everyone seems to be weakening the core aspect and strengthen the action. There are only very few developers trying to make their core aspect accessible.

The way he describes it, make it sound like a schizophrenic game that doesn't know what it actually is supposed to be. That's the same with the vertical slice we got from SCB and pretty much misinformed "us" about what the game is all about. The reviews from RE6 are pretty much reflecting that. It doesn't have a clear direction at all and in my opinion you need to have a focus. The more you add, the more you are going to deliver a grey mish mash of something but not a clear vision.

In SCB they already said it got from a Stealth-Action game to a Stealth-Action-Adventure game. There were even news already that said there is no real genre of what SCB is actually which is actually quite worrying in my opinion. Action should be a possibility but not the way to make Stealth accessible since that's pretty much counterproductive and not really solving the issue. You make Stealth more accessible through broadening the range of Stealth itself. Core = L&S, then you add LoS. Two big Stealth stations where you can increase the ability of AI a lot and broadening up the range of Stealth.

It's also quite amusing how the so called "niche" games sold more then the games that are supposed to get the new audience on board. Uniqueness sells, grey mish mash not so much, because we have enough of that.

LuckyBide
10-04-2012, 04:58 PM
Srry, but imo those PS2 exclusive levels are so not worth it. THey're just not that good. Better pick up the Xbox version.

I already got the original XBOX version :p

Knot3D
10-04-2012, 05:02 PM
I already got the original XBOX version :p Ok, well have some fun then....but imo the levels felt like an afterthought... they start out kind of OK.... then at the end that prison goes totally weird... it feels like it tries to mimic Metal Gear Solid 2's Arsenal Gear weirdness....but then failing at it bigtime.

sameer_monier
10-04-2012, 05:52 PM
That's something a lot of people said is pretty much impossible. It's wrong to weaken the horror element in my opinion, because that's not making the game more accessible. It's just the easy way out and the easy way out for everyone seems to be weakening the core aspect and strengthen the action. There are only very few developers trying to make their core aspect accessible.

The way he describes it, make it sound like a schizophrenic game that doesn't know what it actually is supposed to be. That's the same with the vertical slice we got from SCB and pretty much misinformed "us" about what the game is all about. The reviews from RE6 are pretty much reflecting that. It doesn't have a clear direction at all and in my opinion you need to have a focus. The more you add, the more you are going to deliver a grey mish mash of something but not a clear vision.

In SCB they already said it got from a Stealth-Action game to a Stealth-Action-Adventure game. There were even news already that said there is no real genre of what SCB is actually which is actually quite worrying in my opinion. Action should be a possibility but not the way to make Stealth accessible since that's pretty much counterproductive and not really solving the issue. You make Stealth more accessible through broadening the range of Stealth itself. Core = L&S, then you add LoS. Two big Stealth stations where you can increase the ability of AI a lot and broadening up the range of Stealth.

It's also quite amusing how the so called "niche" games sold more then the games that are supposed to get the new audience on board. Uniqueness sells, grey mish mash not so much, because we have enough of that.


I totally see your point and agree for the most part, let me use RE6 example, you said there was no focus, and I agree, but TBH I believed it could work, but due to the gameplay having to be the same in the 3 scenarios it fell apart, I always imagined Leon's campaign as a Solo Campaign heavy on Survival Horror, Chris heavy on Action Horror, and Jake heavy on Melee Horror, but the game indeed giving the player more unneeded freedom, like how Leon can kick a zombie to his death, rendering his supposedly survival part very shallow ((based on the demo)).

Any game can have action moments, but as you said it has to have a clear vision, SAR had action moments, but it was a stealth game above all, RE3 had action moments but it was a survival horror above all, and thing about RE that it always delivered those action moments in a cool way, in the form of Boss Fights or enemies you need to deal with to advance, ..........etc.

As for BL we will see how that is, I share some of your fears though.

As for "Uniqueness sells, grey mish mash not so much, because we have enough of that.", I am afraid that is not really true, not according to This (http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/04/resident-evil-6-breaks-capcom-shipping-records), well it is shipment though, so we have no idea how it will end up like, but it seems people like those hybrid games ((sadly))

Rea1SamF1sher
10-04-2012, 06:15 PM
As for "Uniqueness sells, grey mish mash not so much, because we have enough of that.", I am afraid that is not really true, not according to This (http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/04/resident-evil-6-breaks-capcom-shipping-records), well it is shipment though, so we have no idea how it will end up like, but it seems people like those hybrid games ((sadly))
Resident Evil has also the Film Industry pushing the sales numbers of anything related to Resident Evil. It think it's rather being that successful because it's "famous". People know the name. Not necessarily because of the quality it delivers. I may be wrong though.

Splinter Cell on the other hand is a game a lot of people don't know about. The most known mission to people is a Stealth mission (CoD MW - Chernobyl) and is being viewed by a lot of people as the best mission of the whole gaming industry. I think that a Stealth game, advertised well, can get even more sales compared to RE.

sameer_monier
10-04-2012, 06:44 PM
Resident Evil has also the Film Industry pushing the sales numbers of anything related to Resident Evil. It think it's rather being that successful because it's "famous". People know the name. Not necessarily because of the quality it delivers. I may be wrong though.
you totally got a point, it introduced action fans to RE games I believe, and the devs went to add more action focus to appeal more to those. ((Wesker is so much like Alice))


Splinter Cell on the other hand is a game a lot of people don't know about. The most known mission to people is a Stealth mission (CoD MW - Chernobyl) and is being viewed by a lot of people as the best mission of the whole gaming industry. I think that a Stealth game, advertised well, can get even more sales compared to RE.

well I don't really know about that, I don't think we will ever get a stealth only game anymore, there will always be more choices, but what I want is Balance, really Balance can fix alot of issues, and like you always say, Narrative can help alot as well.

BoBwUzHeRe1138
10-05-2012, 05:48 AM
I'd like to apologize to Footman for my name calling and saying things like "screw you" -- I was just upset. I take back nothing from my criticisms except for the personal attacks.

Just throwing that out there.