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RAF74_Buzzsaw
05-15-2004, 02:52 PM
Salute

Royal Navy Carriers served from 1942 until the end of the war in the Pacific.

They were much more resistant to bomb damage than the unarmoured US or Japanese Carriers. The Royal Navy Carrier's armoured flight decks were able to withstand hits from 1000 lb bombs.

On several occasions late in the war Royal Navy Carriers were hit by Kamikazes directly on the Flight deck with nothing but scratches and surface damage. USN Carriers which took similar hits were seriously damaged, as evidenced by what occurred with the Franklin.

On a down side, due to the armouring, the Royal Navy Carriers only carried approx. 40 aircraft as compared to the 75-90 aircraft in a full size USN Carrier.

British Carriers operated the Seafire, Hellcat, Corsair, Dauntlas, Avenger and Helldiver.

RAF74_Buzzsaw
05-15-2004, 02:52 PM
Salute

Royal Navy Carriers served from 1942 until the end of the war in the Pacific.

They were much more resistant to bomb damage than the unarmoured US or Japanese Carriers. The Royal Navy Carrier's armoured flight decks were able to withstand hits from 1000 lb bombs.

On several occasions late in the war Royal Navy Carriers were hit by Kamikazes directly on the Flight deck with nothing but scratches and surface damage. USN Carriers which took similar hits were seriously damaged, as evidenced by what occurred with the Franklin.

On a down side, due to the armouring, the Royal Navy Carriers only carried approx. 40 aircraft as compared to the 75-90 aircraft in a full size USN Carrier.

British Carriers operated the Seafire, Hellcat, Corsair, Dauntlas, Avenger and Helldiver.

faustnik
05-15-2004, 03:21 PM
PF Forum (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=frm&s=400102&f=26310365)

Luthier frequents the above forum for Pacific Fighters ideas. You might want to try a post there. The Royal Navy certainly belongs in the Pacific sim.

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VW-IceFire
05-15-2004, 04:24 PM
There was mention of the Seafire in the press release.

So here's hoping.

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Harh
05-16-2004, 07:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=frm&s=400102&f=26310365

Luthier frequents the above forum for Pacific Fighters ideas. You might want to try a post there. The Royal Navy certainly belongs in the Pacific sim.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Soon all the OMR forum will redislocate to PF forum http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JTFM
05-16-2004, 09:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAF74BuzzsawXO:
Salute

Royal Navy Carriers served from 1942 until the end of the war in the Pacific.

They were much more resistant to bomb damage than the unarmoured US or Japanese Carriers. The Royal Navy Carrier's armoured flight decks were able to withstand hits from 1000 lb bombs.

On several occasions late in the war Royal Navy Carriers were hit by Kamikazes directly on the Flight deck with nothing but scratches and surface damage. USN Carriers which took similar hits were seriously damaged, as evidenced by what occurred with the Franklin.

On a down side, due to the armouring, the Royal Navy Carriers only carried approx. 40 aircraft as compared to the 75-90 aircraft in a full size USN Carrier.

British Carriers operated the Seafire, Hellcat, Corsair, Dauntlas, Avenger and Helldiver.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hello.

I am not disputing the accuracy of armored British flight decks effectively reducing bomb damage. I just want to comment that the Franklin's famous battle damage was not the result of a Kamikaze hit. Rather, she was hit by two bombs dropped from a low-flying Judy that suddenly appeared out of the clouds. These bombs penetrated the (unarmored, as you noted) flight deck and exploded in the hangar deck, touching off secondary explosions there and on the flight deck which caused the damage we've all seen in the photos.

I think it would be great to see some British aircraft carriers in the sim! Fine looking vessels. If they aren't included in the release, perhaps they will be in subsequent patches.

Aaron_GT
05-16-2004, 09:52 AM
Buzzsaw: they also operated the Firefly, don't forget. I am not sure if any Sea Hurricanes were operated in the Pacific (I don't think they were).

Latico
05-16-2004, 01:24 PM
The British carriers also flew Corsairs off of their decks.

LEXX_Luthor
05-16-2004, 09:32 PM
RN carriers would also face German and Italian planes in The Med (Italian planes coming soon in FB).

*---&gt; Another reason to talk to Luthier1 about making FP stand~alone Sim but "compatible" or work with FB planes, maps, and surface units.

heywooood
05-16-2004, 09:43 PM
I am still hoping for some clarity soon on the 9 different types of carriers!

not to be confused with just 9 different carriers... are we talking about 10-20 flattops

or 20-30?... there must be a Brit in there somewhere no?..

Giganoni
05-17-2004, 12:13 AM
I hope RAF carriers come into play, then they'll have to add the Ki-44 to defend against british carrier attacks. Well, I hope they would see that logic.

WOLFMondo
05-17-2004, 01:06 AM
If you look up the history of HMS Illustrious that will give a good idea of what a RN carrier was like in the Pacific. There were several Illustrious class carriers (Formidable and Victorious) there as well as other classes like Colossus (ironic they were small and fast and all had Barracudas on board). The RN even had a carrier flying US colours in a US fleet out there.

This link is quite helpful: http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/navy/rnfaa.htm

From that it looks like Avengers were flavour of the month for some time as well as corsairs, seafires, Barracudas, Hellcats etc.

Looks like the Spitfire XIV flew out of India only.

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[This message was edited by WOLFMondo on Mon May 17 2004 at 12:29 AM.]

Aaron_GT
05-17-2004, 02:04 AM
Did the Barrauda serve in the Pacific? Surely one of the contenders for ugliest plane of WW2, after the Skua and Roc, of course!

WOLFMondo
05-17-2004, 04:09 AM
That site has the info on all sqaudrons that served as part of the FAA out of Australian and Barracuda's are on that list so I guess so.

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JG53Frankyboy
05-17-2004, 04:53 AM
so far i read the whole Colossus class carriers camt to late in the pacific to see combat with their Barracudas before japanese surrender

WOLFMondo
05-17-2004, 06:38 AM
There were several there in the spring of 1945 but im not sure if any took part in a fleet action or anything.

HMS Vengeance is still afloat by the looks of things and needs some help.

http://www.fleetairarmarchive.net/vengeance/

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05-17-2004, 06:49 AM
Actualy the Royal Navy Aircraft Carrier HMS Hermes was flying Hurricanes off her deck to re inforce the Air Defences of Ceylon in April 1942.
Unfortunatly she ran into the Imperial Japanese Navy, and was sunk by Japanese Naval dive bombers off Tricomalee near Ceylon.
So there is actualy a Historical Carrier Mission for the Royal Navy in the early Pacific War Period as well.
I have heard that there are 9 different Carrier classes available, given that Hermes saw action early, I would be surprised if her class was not included.
S!

CornbreadPattie
05-17-2004, 09:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAF74BuzzsawXO:
British Carriers operated the Seafire, Hellcat, Corsair, Dauntlas, Avenger and Helldiver.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

don't think the brits had the Dauntless. I do believe they used Vindicators, though.......Marlettes as well...

Latico
05-17-2004, 11:17 AM
This site has all the world carriers and their histories. There were 3 Ilustrious Class HMS carriers that served in both theaters as well as many CVE's that were built by the US and delivered to the RN.

Haze Gray and Underway (http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/)

Stuntie
05-17-2004, 12:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CornbreadPattie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RAF74BuzzsawXO:
British Carriers operated the Seafire, Hellcat, Corsair, Dauntlas, Avenger and Helldiver.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

don't think the brits had the Dauntless. I do believe they used Vindicators, though.......Marlettes as well...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No the FAA did not use the Dauntless.
Not as far as I'm aware anyway.
-Correction, they did. The FAA got 9 Dauntlesses that were given to 700 and 787 squadrons, second line units that never saw any action.

They got some Vindicators, that were originally supposed to go to France, but they were passed on to 811 squadron for training duties as the 'Chesapeake', and were so rubbish at training they were quickly repalced.

1820 squadron FAA got Helldivers for a brief time in 1944, but they never saw combat, and the images of them that I've seen only had them in European camo schemes, not pacific.

the Martlet was just the FAA name for the F4F (Wildcat not being boring enough for the British...).
We also renamed the Avenger as the 'Tarpon'.
Says it all really...

Cheers.
Stuntie

[This message was edited by Stuntie on Mon May 17 2004 at 11:44 AM.]

05-18-2004, 01:40 AM
Did some cross checking through Historical records guys, as it turns out there seems to be a couple of Royal Navy carriers around Ceylon at the time, Hermes got unlucky I guess, but it leaves the door open to a IJN Versus Royal Navy engagement in April/May 1942

APRIL 1942

5th-9th - Japanese Carrier Attacks on Ceylon - A new Eastern Fleet has been assembled under the command of Adm Sir James Somerville, recently of Force H. The variety of ships are split into two groups. A fast group includes battleship "Warspite", carriers "Indomitable" and "Formidable", heavy cruisers "Cornwall" and "Dorsetshire", two light cruisers plus destroyers. In the slower group are four 'R' class battleships, old carrier "Hermes" and some cruisers and destroyers. Two Australian destroyers accompany each group. As the Ceylon bases of Colombo and Trincomalee are poorly defended and too far forward, Adm Somerville is operating out of the secret base of Addu Atoll in the Maldive Islands SW of Ceylon.

Early in April, two Japanese forces head into the Indian Ocean. One under Adm Ozawa with carrier "Ryujo" and six cruisers makes for the Bay of Bengal and east coast of India. In a matter of days 23 ships of 112,000 tons are sunk. Japanese submarines sink a further five off the Indian west coast. Bad as this threat is, the real one comes from the carrier strike force of Adm Nagumo with five Pearl Harbor carriers - "Akagi", "Hiryu", "Soryu", "Shokaku" and "Zuikaku" - plus four battleships and three cruisers.

The Japanese fleet is first sighted on the 4th south of Ceylon, and shipping is cleared from the ports. In the morning of the 5th a heavy raid on Colombo sinks destroyer "TENEDOS" and armed merchant cruiser "HECTOR". Heavy cruisers "CORNWALL" and "DORSETSHIRE" are to the southwest, sailing from Colombo to rejoin the Royal Navy's fast group. Found at noon they soon go to the bottom under a series of aircraft attacks. But Adm Nagumo has not yet finished. As Adm Somerville's two groups search for the Japanese from a position between Addu Atoll and Ceylon, they circle round to the east. From there, on the 9th, Japanese aircraft find the shipping cleared from Trincomalee and back on its way in. Carrier "HERMES", Australian destroyer "VAMPIRE" and corvette "HOLLYHOCK" are amongst those that soon go down. The Japanese ships leave the Indian Ocean, never to return again in force. Not knowing this, the surviving ships of the Royal Navy withdraw - the slow group to Kilindini in East Africa and the other to the Bombay area.

Thats quite a bit of Naval Action between the Imperial Japanese Navy and the Royal Navy.
Quite a substantial Naval engagement could be made of this perhaps in PF.

S!

05-18-2004, 04:33 AM
A link with some photos of Royal Navy Carriers, that where in the Pacific around Ceylon in april 42, as well as other Royal Navy carriers.
Interesting stuff!

http://www.naval-history.net/WW2BritishShipsAircraftCarriers.htm

jpatrick62
05-18-2004, 01:37 PM
As an interesting side note, it was the Brits who first showed the F4U Corsair could be used aboard carriers, after the USN rejected them. Desperate for a modern and fast fighter for their air fleet, the Brits clipped the wings of the Corsair so they could be stored in their carriers which had less deck height than USN carriers. The USN was glad to unload the Corsairs despite their potential, and sold the excess F4Us to britain. Apparently, the Brits were delighted to get such a fighter despite it's less than friendly approach characteristics. The clipped wings improved the low-altitude handling of the plane, along with an improved roll rate.

heywooood
05-18-2004, 06:06 PM
Here we go again -

The P51 was a cr^p plane until we fixed it for you (see license built R/R Merlin)...

You built the Corsair - but we taught you how to fly and land it on a carrier..

Yeah ..well ... er... so. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

warm beer, eh... vinegar on french fries,eh..
.. I really don't have much here, do I

Latico
05-18-2004, 06:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by heywooood:
Here we go again -

The P51 was a cr^p plane until we fixed it for you (see license built R/R Merlin)...

You built the Corsair - but we taught you how to fly and land it on a carrier..

Yeah ..well ... er... so. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

warm beer, eh... vinegar on french fries,eh..
.. I really don't have much here, do I<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

heywooood
05-18-2004, 06:50 PM
What ? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

like I said.. not much to go on.... other than "we saved yer A$$es in the bloody war"

ahahahahahahaha http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif take that JP .