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View Full Version : Something i don't understand about the story



lightlamp
09-27-2012, 12:33 AM
If Ezio or any other Assassin is not allowed to kill innocents then why are they allowed to kill guards in the Assassins creed games? Surely they are just the old word for the modern day police and they are just there to protect?

rileypoole1234
09-27-2012, 12:39 AM
Well all of the guards in AC2 were Borgia's men, and he was a Templar.

lightlamp
09-27-2012, 12:45 AM
Well all of the guards in AC2 were Borgia's men, and he was a Templar.
Really? i thought it was just the regular city guard type of thing. What about for AC3? since it looks like the redcoats will be the guards of this game will they also be templars?

Free_Hidings
09-27-2012, 12:54 AM
Really? i thought it was just the regular city guard type of thing. What about for AC3? since it looks like the redcoats will be the guards of this game will they also be templars?

In AC3 you will fight against both Redcoats and Bluecoats, and both sides have templars amoung them. Connor basically fights for what he thinks is right, so he won't be 100% siding with either. (I think)

In previous games, I think technically he would've avoided fighting guards unless he was defending himself or absolutely had to get rid of them, as you say they are pretty much just people doing their job, they aren't the templar masterminds. But for gameplays sake it would've been lame if he couldn't kill guards without desynching. I think as far as storyline, Ezio would only kill guards a) In self defence (his life is more valuable than theirs + they serve the templars) b) If they are in the way of his objective and he has no way to avoid killing them or c) If they are templars, obviously. Oh and of course d) if they endanger his friends or fellow assassins. Or girlfriends :P

there76
09-27-2012, 01:25 AM
In AC3 you will fight against both Redcoats and Bluecoats, and both sides have templars amoung them. Connor basically fights for what he thinks is right, so he won't be 100% siding with either. (I think)

In previous games, I think technically he would've avoided fighting guards unless he was defending himself or absolutely had to get rid of them, as you say they are pretty much just people doing their job, they aren't the templar masterminds. But for gameplays sake it would've been lame if he couldn't kill guards without desynching. I think as far as storyline, Ezio would only kill guards a) In self defence (his life is more valuable than theirs + they serve the templars) b) If they are in the way of his objective and he has no way to avoid killing them or c) If they are templars, obviously. Oh and of course d) if they endanger his friends or fellow assassins. Or girlfriends :PHe supports the ideals of the patriots, but he will kill any on both sides if they are templars. It was mentioned in the first game informer article that the revolution was not manufactured by the templars.

rileypoole1234
09-27-2012, 01:35 AM
Really? i thought it was just the regular city guard type of thing. What about for AC3? since it looks like the redcoats will be the guards of this game will they also be templars?

Well by saying that I meant it was sort of justified because they were Borgia guards. It doesn't necessarily make them all Templars, they just worked for one. Free_Hidings already said it but the Patriots and Redcoats (both will have patrols in cities at one point or another) both have Templars on their sides. I think Connor seems like the type of Assassin that would kill anybody to get to his target anyway.

kudos17
09-27-2012, 01:45 AM
I would assume it's because they are a threat, or serve a threat (Templars). If the Redcoats walked around but never bothered Connor or his missions, or any of the free colonists, then they wouldn't be justifiable kills for the Assassins.

And in terms of gameplay, it'd be lame if you couldn't kill anything unless it attacks you first.

TheDanteEX
09-27-2012, 01:52 AM
It doesn't say they didn't kill innocents, just civilians. Altair obviously DID kill a few innocents, while Ezio killed an innocent while in Constantinople.

Will_Lucky
09-27-2012, 01:56 AM
"Nothing is true, everything is permitted."

LoyalACFan
09-27-2012, 03:34 AM
Killing them isn't ideal, but if there's a group of armed guards who just witnessed you assassinate someone, there's not much else that can be done but kill them. If you broke the law, even in the interest of the greater good, and the police were shooting at you, would you just stand there and let them kill you? No. You'd either try to run away or fight back. Same thing the Assassins do.

SteelCity999
09-27-2012, 03:52 AM
To answer your question honestly, Ubi has abandoned the creed after AC1 in favor of a more grey area. Also, I'm sure they realized the franchise would not get biger unless there was a bit more freedom in killing. Grey area for the creed mean more green for Ubi.

There was an article that mentioned this sort of thing in regards to sequence 6 - killing redocats just because they were redcoats.

LoyalACFan
09-27-2012, 03:58 AM
To answer your question honestly, Ubi has abandoned the creed after AC1 in favor of a more grey area. Also, I'm sure they realized the franchise would not get biger unless there was a bit more freedom in killing. Grey area for the creed mean more green for Ubi.

There was an article that mentioned this sort of thing in regards to sequence 6 - killing redocats just because they were redcoats.

It's not like you didn't kill dozens of guards in AC1 as well... You can just do it more efficiently in the sequels. And as I recall, the first game was the most "grey" of all of them...

SteelCity999
09-27-2012, 04:07 AM
It's not like you didn't kill dozens of guards in AC1 as well... You can just do it more efficiently in the sequels. And as I recall, the first game was the most "grey" of all of them...

There is a definite change in the way the series has evolved. I don't remember killing very many guards in AC1 unless I got caught during an escape or I was out in the Kingdom where I was attacked - never me just killing a bunch of guards for the hell of it. I have killed more and more guards with every game since then and Ubi has marketed the game with a bigger emphasis on combat and kill animations with each and every game. Compare AC3 with AC1 and its quite noticeable. The sequence 6 part I mentioned was pretty blatant. Ezio smoking out the cave and starting a riot in ACR? In reality the Assassins are more like the Templars with each and every game in methods - which has been mentioned a few times before around here.

LoyalACFan
09-27-2012, 04:25 AM
There is a definite change in the way the series has evolved. I don't remember killing very many guards in AC1 unless I got caught during an escape or I was out in the Kingdom where I was attacked - never me just killing a bunch of guards for the hell of it. I have killed more and more guards with every game since then and Ubi has marketed the game with a bigger emphasis on combat and kill animations with each and every game. Compare AC3 with AC1 and its quite noticeable. The sequence 6 part I mentioned was pretty blatant. Ezio smoking out the cave and starting a riot in ACR? In reality the Assassins are more like the Templars with each and every game in methods - which has been mentioned a few times before around here.

How many guards you kill is totally dependent on YOUR play style. There was nothing about AC2-ACR that forced you to kill more guards, except for a very few sequences where you had to fight your way out of an ambush. And of course they're advertising the combat, it's the only thing that's dramatically changed since the first game, plus it makes for a lot flashier marketing than sneaking around.

Assassin_M
09-27-2012, 04:51 AM
How many guards you kill is totally dependent on YOUR play style. There was nothing about AC2-ACR that forced you to kill more guards, except for a very few sequences where you had to fight your way out of an ambush. And of course they're advertising the combat, it's the only thing that's dramatically changed since the first game, plus it makes for a lot flashier marketing than sneaking around.
Lets have a trailer about sneaking around xD

projectpat06
09-27-2012, 05:51 AM
Lets have a trailer about sneaking around xD

winning.

But watch this video if any of you are confused about the redcoats or colonials attacking you or you having to kill them. Alex explains it pretty well. Start @ 1:37
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/ox6wfx/assassin-s-creed-iii-gameplay-and-campaign-interview

Aphex_Tim
09-27-2012, 05:55 AM
Well all of the guards in AC2 were Borgia's men, and he was a Templar.

They were in AC:B.
In AC2, not so much.


It doesn't say they didn't kill innocents, just civilians. Altair obviously DID kill a few innocents, while Ezio killed an innocent while in Constantinople.

"Stay your blade from the flesh of an innocent."
The first tenet of the creed.

Sushiglutton
09-27-2012, 07:55 AM
I agree TC it doesn't make a ton of sense. I don't believe in using violence/murder as your prime political method either. But this is an action series, not a political drama. We as the protagonist kill guards because it's fun. Doen't really bother me.

HisSpiritLives
09-27-2012, 11:54 AM
,,Nothing is true everything is permitted,, the guards were working for the Templars so they were in way and they would killed Ezio so life or death situation.

Sushiglutton
09-27-2012, 11:55 AM
,,Nothing is true everything is permitted,, the guards were working for the Templars so they were in way and they would killed Ezio so life or death situation.

I kill a lot of them so I don't have to take a fifteen meter long detour

Jexx21
09-27-2012, 12:12 PM
There is a definite change in the way the series has evolved. I don't remember killing very many guards in AC1 unless I got caught during an escape or I was out in the Kingdom where I was attacked - never me just killing a bunch of guards for the hell of it. I have killed more and more guards with every game since then and Ubi has marketed the game with a bigger emphasis on combat and kill animations with each and every game. Compare AC3 with AC1 and its quite noticeable. The sequence 6 part I mentioned was pretty blatant. Ezio smoking out the cave and starting a riot in ACR? In reality the Assassins are more like the Templars with each and every game in methods - which has been mentioned a few times before around here.

Lol, in AC1 (before I got any of the other games), I rounded up guards and got them to follow me so I could all kill them in one spot. In fact, I do this more in AC1 than any of the other games actually.. mostly because I think the guards were ****s.

The riot in ACR? Do you think Ezio wanted any of the innocents to die? Hell no, that's why one of the sync objectives is to not let the number of dead civilians drop below a certain number.

pacmanate
09-27-2012, 02:15 PM
I think he kills them because its necessary. Normally they pose a threat to his goals and they do serve templars regardless if they know this or not.

tjbyrum1
09-27-2012, 02:23 PM
I think it has to do with Eagle Vision.

If Ezio, or Altair, or Connor, or Desmond use Eagle Vision, they see the guards marked as red, signifying them as enemies. Therefore, if they're enemies, then they're obviously not innocents - at least, not in there eyes. Eagle Vision works, in my opinion, on what you think of the person. Because Desmond though Lucy was an ally, he saw her as blue, even though she WAS his enemy and WAS betraying him. Therefore, all assassins see guards as enemies, therefore they're red. If a guard helped an assassin and became an ally to him, I am sure the assassin would have a chance to see them as blue.

Besides, I think in AC games they always portray Guards as oppressive *******s.

LightRey
09-27-2012, 03:56 PM
There are several reasons. For one, they follow orders unquestioningly, so even though they themselves might not be bad, they are supporting a system of absolute control. Secondly, most of the guards that can be killed in the games (though certainly not all, not even in AC1) are indeed working directly for the enemy and as such aren't innocents. Lastly, guards in those days were in no way similar to the police are nowadays. They were often corrupt, discriminant and very abusive. Even members of the police nowadays to which these things apply are generally more 'civil'.

tjbyrum1
09-27-2012, 04:23 PM
There are several reasons. For one, they follow orders unquestioningly, so even though they themselves might not be bad, they are supporting a system of absolute control. Secondly, most of the guards that can be killed in the games (though certainly not all, not even in AC1) are indeed working directly for the enemy and as such aren't innocents. Lastly, guards in those days were in no way similar to the police are nowadays. They were often corrupt, discriminant and very abusive. Even members of the police nowadays to which these things apply are generally more 'civil'.

Or it has something to do with Eagle Vision.

LightRey
09-27-2012, 05:26 PM
Or it has something to do with Eagle Vision.
I really don't think so. Eagle Vision has nothing to do directly with the Animus. Guards showing up red is just because they're a threat.

tjbyrum1
09-27-2012, 05:28 PM
I really don't think so. Eagle Vision has nothing to do directly with the Animus. Guards showing up red is just because they're a threat.

I know it, it was a joke. I was joking.

But your original explanation does make sense.

Assassin_M
09-27-2012, 05:29 PM
Every war has casualties.

Guards are in the way, you kill them..Its a Mission, you cant be hesitant, what are gonna do ? "Please let me kill your employer ?"

You have absolute freedom not to kill them if not forced..

pacmanate
09-27-2012, 08:31 PM
Think of it this way, they are just pixels!

freddie_1897
09-27-2012, 08:43 PM
Think of it this way, they are just pixels!
yeah but thats a boring excuse. anything that is implied or depicted in any form of entertainment holds as much value as the real thing if put in a general point of view. while killing pixels is not as bad as actually killing guards it can still imply the same thing. if i was to kill a jewish person in real life as a result of being a neo-nazi (which I'm not btw) and then kill a jewish person in a video game as a result of being a neo-nazi i would still be a neo nazi (not that i am)

Assassin_M
09-27-2012, 10:14 PM
Think of it this way, they are just pixels!

Not something a true gamer would use in a Debate..

pacmanate
09-27-2012, 10:33 PM
Not something a true gamer would use in a Debate..

Or maybe true gamers see that things are pixels, but admire their lifelikeleyness

Assassin_M
09-27-2012, 10:35 PM
Or maybe true gamers see that things are pixels, but admire their lifelikeleyness

No you dont get it..

You dont see an Author saying "Its just a book" when responding to a critic of his book..
You dont see Directors saying "Hey, its just a Movie, Lighten up" when responding to critics..
You dont see comic writters saying "Its just some drawings"

Right ? right ? right ? right ?

pacmanate
09-27-2012, 10:37 PM
No you dont get it..

You dont see an Author saying "Its just a book" when responding to a critic of his book..
You dont see Directors saying "Hey, its just a Movie, Lighten up" when responding to critics..
You dont see comic writters saying "Its just some drawings"

Right ? right ? right ? right ?

Nope, you've lost me.

Assassin_M
09-27-2012, 10:40 PM
Nope, you've lost me.

I did ?:(

MT4K
09-27-2012, 11:02 PM
No you dont get it..

You dont see an Author saying "Its just a book" when responding to a critic of his book..
You dont see Directors saying "Hey, its just a Movie, Lighten up" when responding to critics..
You dont see comic writters saying "Its just some drawings"

Right ? right ? right ? right ?

It's just a Forum....

Assassin_M
09-27-2012, 11:04 PM
It's just a Forum....

HA ! Touche, Magic Man