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View Full Version : List of card, which balance should be looked into as of 25th September patch



Matrix.disc
09-25-2012, 09:35 AM
I have an idea that could help the communication about cards balance between the community and the dev team:

I will try to gather up the cards that there were serious concerns regarding their balance phrased (together with links to topics these discussions were taking place in). I'll keep this list as up to date, as possible. I think this topic could become sticky too.

Please, do take into account that the fact of a balance discussion taking place does NOT mean that the card necessarily needs rebalancing!

Haven:
Siegfried : Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues)

Stronghold:
Rage ability : Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues)
Ranaar Mauler : Raanar Mauler (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715052-Raanar-Mauler) , Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues)
Jaguar Warrior : Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues) , Is Jaguar Warrior viable? (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715431-Is-Jaguar-Warrior-viable)

Necro:
Mother Namtaru : Mother Namtaru , invoker of death. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715433-Mother-Namtaru-invoker-of-death)

Inferno:
General : The time per turn & power of demons (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715410-The-time-per-turn-amp-power-of-demons)
Ravager : Please increase Juggernauts and Ravagers Use cost. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/714772-Please-increase-Juggernauts-and-Ravagers-Use-cost)
Juggernaut : Please increase Juggernauts and Ravagers Use cost. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/714772-Please-increase-Juggernauts-and-Ravagers-Use-cost)

Neutral:
Dark Assassin : Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues)
Pao Deathseeker : Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues)
Altar of Shadows : altar of shadows in open beta (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715043-altar-of-shadows-in-open-beta)

Primal Magic:
Dispel Magic : Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues)

Dark Magic:
Death Seal : nerf necro insta kill! (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715392-nerf-necro-insta-kill!)
Soulreaver : nerf necro insta kill! (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715392-nerf-necro-insta-kill!)
Shadow Image : Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues)
Puppet Master : Some balance issues. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715712-Some-balance-issues)

Water Magic:
Blizzard : BUFF/FIX blizzard, plz.. (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/715180-BUFF-FIX-blizzard-plz)

Ch3rryAC
09-25-2012, 11:28 AM
Wow, looks like You spend a lot of time doing this ;)

BTW In my opinion balance is pretty good as it is now. It just takes more time to get all the cards you need for really strong decks.

Hydroopl
09-25-2012, 11:41 AM
Actually Siegfried or Marcus is not that op, moreover it is strange why I don't see posts against Sandalphone (water+ air+ 3 free points). Atropos is broken imo, atleast his mechanism of ressurecting. What I mean, use broke bridge and deploy him again, sacrifice, shadow image and boom you have 4 cards from graveyard or more.

Namtaru- I presented my opinion, with spell deck it just crushes enemy. I would say there is problem with Jezziel, no one use her, really - discard for heal is too expensive when you have sisters and spell for it. Still I can see some viable tactics with more cards availible.

Le.Rancord
09-25-2012, 01:02 PM
Haven:
- cassandra is fine
- jezziel is to weak
- sandalphon, only one player in top ranks so hard to tell for now, but he certainly is very good even when nerfed.
- siegfried is limited, use high hp units and aoe spells to handle him.
- haven generally questionable at 4/5 drops, the late ones are ok, but not worth going over the weak 5 slot and questionable 4 slot.

Inferno:
- tormenter/breeder/mother breeder/lacerator need a buff and would be intresting mechanics.

Stronghold:
- jaguar warrior is to weak
- i feel hp of 6 drops could be a big better.

Necropolis:
- Ravenous Ghoul should be looked into.

Neutral:
- week of the dead should give rounded up at least. Only usefull for enrage decks or doombringer atm.
- manastorm should be looked into, same for week of taxes.
- wandering bard should let u search uniwue fortunes as well. Would give us more intresting options.
- pao hunter and rogue mercenary are ridiculous, especially since every faction has a creature at same cost that is better. For Limited gameplay if it should arrive story different

In magic i feel pretty fine, except that allmost all attachments and purge are a joke, But I dont see anything that is urgent or to strong. Also i didnt add the cards from the tuesday debats

Hydroopl
09-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Haven:
- haven generally questionable at 4/5 drops, the late ones are ok, but not worth going over the weak 5 slot and questionable 4 slot.

You mean the fact that only viable offensive unit is radiant glory or warrior seraph? And still most units are not breaking barrier of 2 points attack or retaliation?

pod11
09-25-2012, 01:26 PM
The necro instant kil is in a deck with extremely low atack creatures.
Without it that deck would have no real means of killing creatures fast.And even after kiling them there is no source of high damage in necro deck to realy facilate it.

If anything you'd have to add atack to necro creatures firs and then think about changing those spells into damage.

Hydroopl
09-25-2012, 01:35 PM
The necro instant kil is in a deck with extremely low atack creatures.
Without it that deck would have no real means of killing creatures fast.And even after kiling them there is no source of high damage in necro deck to realy facilate it.

If anything you'd have to add atack to necro creatures firs and then think about changing those spells into damage.
You know, I wouldn't really mind if that would be only ONE way to fast destroy, but when you can capture or use death seal/banshee then I really would consider nerfing it. Even thunder bolt deals 6 damage, which is that I need to use against high tier units other unit from the line and finish it off (still not guaranteed). Have you ever played against 10 hp vampire lord which was brought to life 3 times? If yes , you see how much combination of insta killing and ressurecting everything is just broken

pod11
09-25-2012, 04:11 PM
Thunderbold deals 6 damage, but tis combined with deck that has other sources of high damage, which is not the case in necro. even spells do slow damage and kil lthings in enemies turn, which is hudge disadvantage over inferno that kills instantly and then atacks in his turn.

6 damage over ravagers 6 damage or juggernauts 4 damage for only 3 cost is a different thing if you put that 6 damage in deck in which creatures costing 5 resources got only 2 atack.

pod11
09-25-2012, 04:16 PM
As for slow damage thing:

Here is balancing issue i want to bring up:
Have infect and blizzard/ and that 1 cost 1 damage speal deal damage on beginnign of casters turn as opposed to enemies turn, so the one who uses it can have some use of killing enemy creature.
The way it is now enemy have time to cast something in place of killed creature before caster can use his own spell.

Also if effect is slower it should cost less then immediate effect of other schools of magic, which is not the case.

Hydroopl
09-25-2012, 05:20 PM
Thunderbold deals 6 damage, but tis combined with deck that has other sources of high damage, which is not the case in necro. even spells do slow damage and kil lthings in enemies turn, which is hudge disadvantage over inferno that kills instantly and then atacks in his turn.

6 damage over ravagers 6 damage or juggernauts 4 damage for only 3 cost is a different thing if you put that 6 damage in deck in which creatures costing 5 resources got only 2 atack.
Thunderbolt is availible only for air magic, ergo haven and fortress. So there are no ravagers or jaggernauts. I don't know, you can trade infection, but I want more common regeneration spells, deal?

Actually if we are comparing both spells -
"Hey I lost the row and there is might 6 unit, I won't use creature there. But I have soul reaver, situation secured" - row secured, enemy powerful unit destroyed, tides of battle can be changed to your favour
"Hey I lost the row and there is might 6 unit, I can't put any creature there because it will be insta killed, but I have thunderbolt - deal 6 dmg, next turn, enemy unit regenerate, steal life"- row lost, you can't do there anything, try push other, when losing much hp on hero
Feel the difference? To kill Celestial, Vampire Knight you need to do it in one turn, if you don't it will regenerate (on vamp you can stack spells giving additional life steal). The less funny thing is that you can easily take month of emerald dragon to have 9 hp spinners, 10 hp vampire lord. If I would take that event on haven, inferno, fortress it would take advantage to enemy than to me. Soulreaver ignores it.

You want to buff necro damage with its current health,incorporable status and great magic schools while it still has nearly impossible to lose late game? Unless necro player is zombie he will use every advantage (which are not hard to use) if he survive first 4-6 turns

Le.Rancord
09-25-2012, 05:46 PM
Rieiculous chain of arguments tbh. There will be allwaays some instant kills, and its inferno or necropolis who have acess to it wich makes sense. For 4 I can play other strong magic. A fireball can destroy alot of creatures. Sure soulreaver destroys a big one, but if ure enemy plays swarm mode, u rather want that fireball.

Lightning bolt in direct comparision is clearly weaker than soulreaver, but still a strong spell. After all different schools have different strenght and weaknesses. Is single target removal stronger than high damage aoe? Depends on the situation.

After all u both loose one card, no posbillity to gain card advantage with a 1for1 card. I dunno what u play, but my vampire knights do kinda fine against darkness spells. Want to keep ure enemy casting spells all the time. Some time they will run out of answers. And I dont use darkness spells, since the speed factor cost me many games.

After all u want to pack in ure 6 might creatures, then add garants purge and tiwst of fate to deal with the spells u hate for example. Play altar of eternalmservitude to get them back. Play kats grand finalle to make ure enraged cyclops hit immediatly

DarkBeast13
09-25-2012, 05:57 PM
nvm xD

Hydroopl
09-25-2012, 05:59 PM
Rieiculous chain of arguments tbh. There will be allwaays some instant kills, and its inferno or necropolis who have acess to it wich makes sense. For 4 I can play other strong magic. A fireball can destroy alot of creatures. Sure soulreaver destroys a big one, but if ure enemy plays swarm mode, u rather want that fireball.

Lightning bolt in direct comparision is clearly weaker than soulreaver, but still a strong spell. After all different schools have different strenght and weaknesses. Is single target removal stronger than high damage aoe? Depends on the situation.

After all u both loose one card, no posbillity to gain card advantage with a 1for1 card. I dunno what u play, but my vampire knights do kinda fine against darkness spells. Want to keep ure enemy casting spells all the time. Some time they will run out of answers. And I dont use darkness spells, since the speed factor cost me many games.

After all u want to pack in ure 6 might creatures, then add garants purge and tiwst of fate to deal with the spells u hate for example. Play altar of eternalmservitude to get them back. Play kats grand finalle to make ure enraged cyclops hit immediatly
Glad you had occasion to laugh, but I was comparing spell if it came about one single target. Of course there are spells which are still better (about aoe) but you forgot to mention about curse of netherworld - one huge and healing aoe. That's why I was saying about being versatile, it can be really good adapted to situations. Still I like air magic if it comes about blocking enemy units (which can in theory block enemy flyers and shooters for 4 turns, than tornado for next 4 if it is line+ 4 on altar of shadows, but it takes too much time)

BTW with your patterns- forgot about haven

@Up, you can do same with soulreaver, so? It is negating unit's magic ressi (ressi=/= immune). Wait, wait, wait you are talking about death seal, which require something to hit, soulreaver doesn't

Le.Rancord
09-25-2012, 09:30 PM
So how many teams was the huge aoe useful for u? I added tsunami because curse was rarly useful. And regarding my games against curse players, it doesnt have that much impact, if not the perfect situation occurs.

So tell me where is it that easy for u to win with the darkness spells? If they are so many op cards in one school, it should give u freewins.