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Mitlov47
03-07-2004, 06:11 PM
Every time I fly the Me-262, it catches fire after a couple minutes of flight. It seems to happen particularly when I reduce throttle for a bit, then increase throttle again. As I turn throttle back up, VOOSH!!! It all goes up in flames.

How do I prevent this? Just fly on 80-90% throttle all the time? If that's the case, how on earth am I supposed to land the thing or lose altitude?

---------------------------

"I hear the roar of a big machine; Two worlds and in between.
Love lost, fire at will; Dum-dum bullets and shoot to kill.
I hear dive bombers and Empire down, Empire down..."
--Sisters of Mercy

KI-84-1a -- "Kaoru"

Mitlov47
03-07-2004, 06:11 PM
Every time I fly the Me-262, it catches fire after a couple minutes of flight. It seems to happen particularly when I reduce throttle for a bit, then increase throttle again. As I turn throttle back up, VOOSH!!! It all goes up in flames.

How do I prevent this? Just fly on 80-90% throttle all the time? If that's the case, how on earth am I supposed to land the thing or lose altitude?

---------------------------

"I hear the roar of a big machine; Two worlds and in between.
Love lost, fire at will; Dum-dum bullets and shoot to kill.
I hear dive bombers and Empire down, Empire down..."
--Sisters of Mercy

KI-84-1a -- "Kaoru"

BS87
03-07-2004, 06:15 PM
You cannot dump the throttle and then rappidly increase it. If its below 65%, you have to slowly work it up past 65% then you can floor it.

darkhorizon11
03-07-2004, 06:28 PM
Yeah go super easy on the throttle And remember the axial turbines of the Schwable are only cooled by the air flowing around them.

A high power setting and a low airspeed means a hotter engine.

A low power setting and high airspeed mean a cooler engine.

Mitlov47
03-07-2004, 07:10 PM
That would explain it. I hadn't realized that the Me-262 was an air-cooled jet. DarkHorizon explained the situation particularly well.

I'm still not a very big fan of the airplane. The P-47 is nearly as good at knocking out bombers (much better armor, just about as fast, admittedly weaker guns, but it can fire three separate pairs of rockets instead of one large salvo), and P-51s absolutely maul Me-262s in dogfights.

---------------------------

"I hear the roar of a big machine; Two worlds and in between.
Love lost, fire at will; Dum-dum bullets and shoot to kill.
I hear dive bombers and Empire down, Empire down..."
--Sisters of Mercy

KI-84-1a -- "Kaoru"

BlitzPig_DDT
03-07-2004, 07:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
I'm still not a very big fan of the airplane. The P-47 is nearly as good at knocking out bombers (much better armor, just about as fast, admittedly weaker guns, but it can fire three separate pairs of rockets instead of one large salvo), and P-51s absolutely maul Me-262s in dogfights.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The P-47 is not as fast as the 262 in level flight. It can reach similar speeds in a dive under the right conditions and even catch low flying 262s (well IRL - 262 pilots hated seeing Jugs high), but, flat out it's not as fast.

If you are seeing jets taken down by props in a DF, then the jets are not being flown right.

If the jet is flown right, the best any prop could hope for is a stalemate. Most often though, they'll be picked off in a high speed pass.

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Mr0blongo
03-07-2004, 08:42 PM
And keep away from bombers!!!.
I have dived in a Me262 (like 1100km/h http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif) over a B17 formation and u ALWAYS end up in flames, no way to attack bombers.

Oso2323
03-07-2004, 09:42 PM
The engine fire problem is realistically modelled, IMHO. The LW lost quite a few experienced pilots that way (including Johannes Steinhoff, who was severly burned in a 262 accident.)

Oso2323
03-07-2004, 09:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr0blongo:
And keep away from bombers!!!.
I have dived in a Me262 (like 1100km/h http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif) over a B17 formation and u ALWAYS end up in flames, no way to attack bombers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you noticed that the AI gunners have been toned down a bit?

Allygash
03-08-2004, 01:49 AM
yep they have....thank god

ELEM
03-08-2004, 02:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
That would explain it. I hadn't realized that the Me-262 was an air-cooled jet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there any other sort?

I wouldn't join any club that would have ME as member!

Menthol_moose
03-08-2004, 04:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr0blongo:
And keep away from bombers!!!.
I have dived in a Me262 (like 1100km/h http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif) over a B17 formation and u ALWAYS end up in flames, no way to attack bombers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also the ME262 are extremely prone to engine damage.
One 50 cal bullet and the whole thing is up in flames, very nice if your on the delivery side of the equation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif



Eh, mates! What's the good word?

Koohullin
03-08-2004, 05:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Yeah go super easy on the throttle And remember the axial turbines of the Schwable are only cooled by the air flowing around them.

A high power setting and a low airspeed means a hotter engine.

A low power setting and high airspeed mean a cooler engine.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The turbine stators and blades were 'down stream' from the 6 combustion chambers. I can see it for the compressor stage(there is no real heat generated there) but how does one get cooling air to the turbine stage when the gasses are so hot?


Below 6000rpm, the throttles must be manipulated with care. Above that rpm, the regulator did a good job.

Magister__Ludi
03-08-2004, 05:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Menthol_moose:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr0blongo:
And keep away from bombers!!!.
I have dived in a Me262 (like 1100km/h http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif) over a B17 formation and u ALWAYS end up in flames, no way to attack bombers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also the ME262 are extremely prone to engine damage.
One 50 cal bullet and the whole thing is up in flames, very nice if your on the delivery side of the equation http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Engine damage for Jumos is exagerated. Unless you hit the combustion chambers there is little chance to make a jet burn just because of a couple of MG hits. If you hit the compressor a loss in power can be expected, if happened more times ingestion of compressor blades can stop the engine. Hitting the shaft can also stop the engine. Hitting the part after turbine may lead to hot gases leak on the engine nacelle, which can set on fire the nacelle if the engine is not throttled back. It's a slightly different picture than the simplified: "one hit kills the engine" (and explode a minute later no matter what).

YP-80 engine damage model is about right.

About pilot induced damage there are also inaccuracies. Historically Jumos were difficult to start, spooling the engine up 6000rpm had to be done with care, prefferably only on the ground. The risk was that the engine will flame out (stop) after a compressor stall. There was no danger of setting the engine on fire unless you slammed the throttle. That's why throttle had to be kept at all times above 6000rpm in flight, you could even land at 6000rpm because this setting delivers almost idle power.

YP-80 engine however is different. It has a centrifugal compressor which does not stall as easily as Jumos at low RPM (for some reason it stalls in the game, maybe because it's an early series of the engine, they had plenty of trouble with them). But here it comes the second important difference: allies did not have at that time ('44-'45) proper fuel injection, and since jets are very thirsty engines, they suffered from both fuel starvation (leading to engine flame out) or fuel satiation (setting the engine on fire) you had to be very careful with the throttles. Now if you use the throttle to quick you get a flame out no matter if you move the throttle up or down - this is incorrect: ******ing the throttle to quickly should lead to flame out, advacing it too quickly should lead to engine fire. Germans on the other hand used with great success fuel injection for 10 years on all their major piston engine. Their experience enabled them to design jet engines without the fuel starvation/satiation problem.

darkhorizon11
03-09-2004, 04:17 PM
Oh, sorry I wasn't specific enough for you 'hullin.

Yes the compressor is cooled by ram air entering it. Radiational cooling keeps the turbine stage from overheating because the heat energy created by the chemical combustion in the combustion chamber escapes seeks equilibrium with the cold air flowing around the engine nacelles. Therefore the engine is aircooled. Its the same concept if you light a zippo in a pvc tube and hold the pvc at the spot outside the lighter.

Oh and the I've found the best way to shoot down a B17 in an Me 262 is too get a good head start of about 4 to 5 miles (so you have plenty of time to setup) ahead of the Fortresses.
Make a 180 degree turn, and get below them. Then pull and attack head on and from below. Aim for the exposed tail section. Ussually the 900+ kph closing speed makes it to hard for the bombers gunners to track you. Plus depending upon exactly where you score a hit, it ussually only takes 2 shots or so to do critical damage to the empennage. In fact thats argueably the best way to attack any bomber in any fighter aircraft for the most part.

Spinne_3.-JG51
03-09-2004, 05:03 PM
If any of you really enjoy flying the 262, you should consider signing up with our squadron. So far we've flown the Me262 exclusively, though with AEP out, we're probably going to fly the other kraut jets as well. www.jg51.com (http://www.jg51.com)

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