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freddie_1897
08-08-2012, 06:23 PM
it's long, it is just a theory, i posted this in the cryptic tweets thread but it was slightly off topic so i decided to make a new thread. there are of course slight holes in the story:


clay is 'killed' because of being in the animus too long, so while his physical body is technically dead. his mental form remains alive inside the animus. as a copy. being inside what is essentially the abstergo computer mainframe he makes multiple copies of himself. like a virus taking over a computer but on a much larger scale. these copies can gain access to secure areas. clay is somewhat of a computer technician as revealed in the lost archives, this would explain how he managed to get in so deep. accessing the database through dying was a cut in the skin, once opened the possibilities are endless. this explains erudito.clay kaczmakek IS Erudito. he managed to access the database, meaning he can access the templar training facility, which is what william wanted all along (as revealed in the lost archives DLC).

clay kaczmarek dying while in the animus was all part of the plan. however he was told by juno while in the animus that he had to help desmond. the only way he could help him was to get to him. and to get to him he needed to get access to rebeccas animus, which is of course part of a different mainframe. he made clues through glyphs revealing himself to desmond. now all he needed was a way of getting to that animus. 'luckily' for him, lucy has brought the memory core to rebecca. she stole it from abstergo and gave it to rebecca in AC2. soon later desmond receives clays clues and discovers he is still alive.

unfortunately this is as far clay can go. he can't help desmond at the moment, what desmond needs is something that will simulate what happened to clay without him actually dying. a coma. juno foresaw this and so had to find a way to get desmond into a coma. so she got him to kill lucy. yay. now clay can talk to desmond and he can reach the nexus of time. now he knows how he can save the world. but one more thing needs to be noted...

Lucy, was not, and is not a templar. she and clay had been in communications through the animus after he had died. and she knew that the only way to get clay to desmond was through the memory core. it was too dangerous for clay to try and contact desmond while vidic was there to make sure things went smoothly. a break out would be easiest. or even better. an excuse. she convinced vidic that having desmond in a comfortable atmosphere with people he trusted would be more efficient. Vidic agreed and so the break out was performed. we heard these exchanges between vidic and lucy in the lost archives and assumed that she was a templar. which is not the case. she is however, dead. probably not something in the plan that she was aware of, but something that juno and clay were aware of.


that was a lot of typing so i can't really be bothered to go back and proof read it. but ill do it at some point i'll happily answer any questions.

Slayer_WTF
08-08-2012, 06:38 PM
There is no "mystery" of what they published today. It 's only Erudito who warns us of the death of 16 as if it were reality since he died today.


I think I understand. In AC, Clay died on 8 August. Today is August 8, then in the real world Clay is dead now, and does everyone know he's alive. In short, nothing to worry about. It 's only one found funny.

naran6142
08-08-2012, 06:50 PM
I like this idea but the problem is Lucy not been a Templar, which the TLA says that she is.

and why would juno kill lucy if she wasnt bad, maybe I missed something there?

freddie_1897
08-08-2012, 06:55 PM
There is no "mystery" of what they published today. It 's only Erudito who warns us of the death of 16 as if it were reality since he died today.
This isn't about that, this is something else, that's why I made a new thread about this

Steww-
08-08-2012, 06:55 PM
I'll repost what I said in the other thread.

Nice post Freddie. I would like the paragraph about Lucy to be true, and the scenario you mentioned does make sense.
Still, she showed details of Rebecca's animus to the Templars (see the MP Files) and was e-mailing someone that pretended to be William during Brotherhood, so there are things to be explained. Also the e-mail she leaves Clay is probably the hardest to explain away.

Slayer_WTF
08-08-2012, 06:59 PM
This isn't about that, this is something else, that's why I made a new thread about this
Oh, ok. :)

freddie_1897
08-08-2012, 07:06 PM
I like this idea but the problem is Lucy not been a Templar, which the TLA says that she is.

and why would juno kill lucy if she wasnt bad, maybe I missed something there?
It's in the op but in case you missed it.

The lost archives never openly says Lucy is a Templar, however it does quite clearly imply it through conversation between vidic and Lucy, read through the last paragraph of the op

Juno killed Lucy because she was the only person desmond shared a large enough empathy with to truly care that she'd died. Twcb are not a nice bunch, they do what is necessary, not what feels right at the time.

nightcobra
08-08-2012, 07:23 PM
it's long, it is just a theory, i posted this in the cryptic tweets thread but it was slightly off topic so i decided to make a new thread. there are of course slight holes in the story:


clay is 'killed' because of being in the animus too long, so while his physical body is technically dead. his mental form remains alive inside the animus. as a copy. being inside what is essentially the abstergo computer mainframe he makes multiple copies of himself. like a virus taking over a computer but on a much larger scale. these copies can gain access to secure areas. clay is somewhat of a computer technician as revealed in the lost archives, this would explain how he managed to get in so deep. accessing the database through dying was a cut in the skin, once opened the possibilities are endless. this explains erudito.clay kaczmakek IS Erudito. he managed to access the database, meaning he can access the templar training facility, which is what william wanted all along (as revealed in the lost archives DLC).

clay kaczmarek dying while in the animus was all part of the plan. however he was told by juno while in the animus that he had to help desmond. the only way he could help him was to get to him. and to get to him he needed to get access to rebeccas animus, which is of course part of a different mainframe. he made clues through glyphs revealing himself to desmond. now all he needed was a way of getting to that animus. 'luckily' for him, lucy has brought the memory core to rebecca. she stole it from abstergo and gave it to rebecca in AC2. soon later desmond receives clays clues and discovers he is still alive.

unfortunately this is as far clay can go. he can't help desmond at the moment, what desmond needs is something that will simulate what happened to clay without him actually dying. a coma. juno foresaw this and so had to find a way to get desmond into a coma. so she got him to kill lucy. yay. now clay can talk to desmond and he can reach the nexus of time. now he knows how he can save the world. but one more thing needs to be noted...

Lucy, was not, and is not a templar. she and clay had been in communications through the animus after he had died. and she knew that the only way to get clay to desmond was through the memory core. it was too dangerous for clay to try and contact desmond while vidic was there to make sure things went smoothly. a break out would be easiest. or even better. an excuse. she convinced vidic that having desmond in a comfortable atmosphere with people he trusted would be more efficient. Vidic agreed and so the break out was performed. we heard these exchanges between vidic and lucy in the lost archives and assumed that she was a templar. which is not the case. she is however, dead. probably not something in the plan that she was aware of, but something that juno and clay were aware of.


that was a lot of typing so i can't really be bothered to go back and proof read it. but ill do it at some point i'll happily answer any questions.


kinda similar to what my train of thought was but with a few alterations:

"since the grand temple is the place where all of the "TOWCB" knowledge is supposed to be stored along with their plans to save the world, the nexus of time control mechanism should be there. what if that machine allows desmond to talk to juno (more like allows juno to see desmond's answer in her time, basicly looking into the future), then juno talks to william miles about their plan to free lucy from vidic and the templar eyes warning him to not say reveal anything of this plan until the time is right, juno then makes desmond stab lucy but just enough for her to fall unconscious from the shock and to make desmond enter the comatose state for him to heal his mind through the animus later on, the funeral is then staged with only william miles knowing what's going on at this point in time, after desmond tells of this moment of opportunity to juno in the grand temple, william knows that this would be the right time and reveals to desmond that the plan succeeded and that lucy is fine (if only because she could be the modern counterpart of eve and necessary to act as a sort of key with desmond). "

the point where juno talks to william could be when he's reviewing clay's findings from the templars training database, meaning there could be more of the message that juno told clay that we have not heard yet, and that what we heard was just the beginning of the conversation.

blowing my own mind :p

TinyTemplar
08-08-2012, 07:26 PM
The lost archives never openly says Lucy is a Templar
even if it said, I would not've believed it until I saw an act of betrayal with my own eyes)

freddie_1897
08-08-2012, 07:34 PM
kinda similar to what my train of thought was but with a few alterations:

"since the grand temple is the place where all of the "TOWCB" knowledge is supposed to be stored along with their plans to save the world, the nexus of time control mechanism should be there. what if that machine allows desmond to talk to juno (more like allows juno to see desmond's answer in her time, basicly looking into the future), then juno talks to william miles about their plan to free lucy from vidic and the templar eyes warning him to not say reveal anything of this plan until the time is right, juno then makes desmond stab lucy but just enough for her to fall unconscious from the shock and to make desmond enter the comatose state for him to heal his mind through the animus later on, the funeral is then staged with only william miles knowing what's going on at this point in time, after desmond tells of this moment of opportunity to juno in the grand temple, william knows that this would be the right time and reveals to desmond that the plan succeeded and that lucy is fine (if only because she could be the modern counterpart of eve and necessary to act as a sort of key with desmond). "

the point where juno talks to william could be when he's reviewing clay's findings from the templars training database, meaning there could be more of the message that juno told clay that we have not heard yet, and that what we heard was just the beginning of the conversation.

blowing my own mind :p
That's a good theory but isn't really the same as mine, the main points of mine are that Lucy is not a Templar, clay made multiple copies of himself and clay is erudito, my first point is similar to yours but has a different explanation as to why. I would hardly say my theory is yours with a few alterations, I would say my theory is my own with slight details similar to yours.

De Filosoof
08-08-2012, 07:43 PM
So why would Juno kill Lucy and say "the cross(templar logo) darkens the horizon?"

Your theory has so many flaws.

1. It would be a triple twist so that would get a bit ridiculous.
2. Juno's actions and words wouldn't make any sense.
3. Clay's words wouldn't make any sense, "she's not who you think she is".

And IF he was talking about Juno and not about Lucy he would have told him that in the black room.

freddie_1897
08-08-2012, 07:59 PM
So why would Juno kill Lucy and say "the cross(templar logo) darkens the horizon?"

Your theory has so many flaws.

1. It would be a triple twist so that would get a bit ridiculous.
2. Juno's actions and words wouldn't make any sense.
3. Clay's words wouldn't make any sense, "she's not who you think she is".

And IF he was talking about Juno and not about Lucy he would have told him that in the black room.
Ok, 1. It's all about how you interpret this, to me she was speaking a warning about the Templars in general, not about Lucy. To me it meant 'the Templars darken the horizon'

2. That's not a flaw in my theory

3. I said there would likely be holes in my theory, I can't explain that.

Can I also mention that Lucy not being a Templar is only one of my theories. Everyone seems to be replying to my Lucy paragraph, not anything else.

EDIT: please switch numbers 1 and 2 in this post around, I replied to the wrong thing

nightcobra
08-08-2012, 08:05 PM
That's a good theory but isn't really the same as mine, the main points of mine are that Lucy is not a Templar, clay made multiple copies of himself and clay is erudito, my first point is similar to yours but has a different explanation as to why. I would hardly say my theory is yours with a few alterations, I would say my theory is my own with slight details similar to yours.

it just seemed similar and i found it interesting, not much more to it:p

De Filosoof
08-08-2012, 08:09 PM
Yeah i like the other stuff about your theory.
There's a good chance Clay will be Erudito but i personally think it will be his dad or an hacktivist group like Anonymous.
I really love the idea of Clay having a return in AC3 but i think it was mentioned in a podcast or interview that Clay won't return in AC3:(.
He's one of my favorite AC characters.

freddie_1897
08-08-2012, 09:54 PM
I've just had a thought, IF my theory is correct, we know Desmond has to prevent the Templar satellite launch and stop the solar flare, my guess is that they'd have to use the PoEs on the satellite to stop the solar flare, but to control the satellite, they'd need control of the abstergo computer mainframe. Now if clay is erudito and by my theory has created multiple copies of himself in the database, he could control that satellite, but I think that the satellite will be run off of a separate network. Therefore I think it will be Desmond's job to put the memory core with subject 16 on it into the satellite database.

Stroonzje
08-09-2012, 09:40 AM
kinda similar to what my train of thought was but with a few alterations:

"since the grand temple is the place where all of the "TOWCB" knowledge is supposed to be stored along with their plans to save the world, the nexus of time control mechanism should be there. what if that machine allows desmond to talk to juno (more like allows juno to see desmond's answer in her time, basicly looking into the future), then juno talks to william miles about their plan to free lucy from vidic and the templar eyes warning him to not say reveal anything of this plan until the time is right, juno then makes desmond stab lucy but just enough for her to fall unconscious from the shock and to make desmond enter the comatose state for him to heal his mind through the animus later on, the funeral is then staged with only william miles knowing what's going on at this point in time, after desmond tells of this moment of opportunity to juno in the grand temple, william knows that this would be the right time and reveals to desmond that the plan succeeded and that lucy is fine (if only because she could be the modern counterpart of eve and necessary to act as a sort of key with desmond). "

the point where juno talks to william could be when he's reviewing clay's findings from the templars training database, meaning there could be more of the message that juno told clay that we have not heard yet, and that what we heard was just the beginning of the conversation.

blowing my own mind :p
Mate, i think you might have just uncovered the ending of the game HAHA! it all makes sense

brefcourte
08-09-2012, 10:16 AM
lucy was killed, because juno knew, that her voice actor belonged to the templars!!

TinyTemplar
08-09-2012, 10:35 AM
3. Clay's words wouldn't make any sense, "she's not who you think she is".

Many have assumed that Lucy was a traitor at the moment, and Clay's words might have comepletely opposite meaning.

as a result we know nothing)

infamous_ezio
08-09-2012, 05:03 PM
This make absolutely no sense, and if it were true, it would contradict most of the major plot points in the game....

Also, there is no way clay was erudito. Think about it, Clay can't contact the real world, if he could, why wouldn't he just communicate with desmond that way? Erudito sent desmond that email in ACB. I think it would be cool if it was clay's dad

TinyTemplar
08-09-2012, 05:45 PM
I think it would be cool if it was clay's dad
some kind of family drama)

tarrero
08-10-2012, 01:09 AM
Lets see....

Clay has been stated by the deveps to be GONE!!!!!! and regarding Lucy, well........... Though I feel the "treatment" involving that moment, you know, one the most shocking ones in the series , rushed and improvised, hence it was explained only through shortly publicized dlc that not many people cared and in fact, at this time, know about...... She is also GONE.

Let them rest in peace, mostly Clay, the ASSASSIN one out of the two.


Erudito could be either Clay´s dad or Bill Miles

De Filosoof
08-10-2012, 01:15 AM
I think Erudito is an hacktivist group like anonymous.
i don't get why it should be a person we already know.

tarrero
08-10-2012, 01:18 AM
Yep, but sure they are related to the assassins, it was Erudito who gave Desmond the passwords of the rest of his team....

De Filosoof
08-10-2012, 01:29 AM
Erudito helps the assassins because they share the same ideals.

The reason why he sent the paswords to Desmond was because he/they most likely knew there was a templar trator in their team.