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View Full Version : 'Air Brakes' question.



OldPepper
06-29-2004, 05:12 PM
I have a very important and useful key assigned to airbrakes, but I'm suspecting this feature is certainly not a universal bit of equipment in most planes.

The key in question is my spacebar. What function do you guys put on Spacebar? I have no HOTAS or TrackIR view controller, etc.

Is there a resource or downloadable spreadsheet that might shed some light on this somewhat mysterious feature of some aircraft? Or a controller and feature spreadsheet worth studying?

It never works in my Huricanes, 109s etc.

What aircraft are equiped with 'Airbrakes'? The Stukka, Im sure has it, maybe the Il-2!

Help me out!

Still the novice pilot! And thanks to my IL2 'community' (you 'shoot me down", "i'll get you yet" bunch of pirates!) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

(Expect a thread on making a 'JoytoKey' view config, soon!)

____________
OldPepper.
Novice Pilot.

OldPepper
06-29-2004, 05:12 PM
I have a very important and useful key assigned to airbrakes, but I'm suspecting this feature is certainly not a universal bit of equipment in most planes.

The key in question is my spacebar. What function do you guys put on Spacebar? I have no HOTAS or TrackIR view controller, etc.

Is there a resource or downloadable spreadsheet that might shed some light on this somewhat mysterious feature of some aircraft? Or a controller and feature spreadsheet worth studying?

It never works in my Huricanes, 109s etc.

What aircraft are equiped with 'Airbrakes'? The Stukka, Im sure has it, maybe the Il-2!

Help me out!

Still the novice pilot! And thanks to my IL2 'community' (you 'shoot me down", "i'll get you yet" bunch of pirates!) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

(Expect a thread on making a 'JoytoKey' view config, soon!)

____________
OldPepper.
Novice Pilot.

JG52Uther
06-29-2004, 05:14 PM
Stuka and one model of p38 has dive brakes(most planes do not)

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v299/JG52Uther/190-1.jpg JG52 The Butcherbirds

Oilburner_TAW
06-29-2004, 05:17 PM
rest assured that if they work, the plane came with them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

(as said, stuka and p38-L are the only 2 planes i've found with air brakes). You've gotta try the stuka in a dive at least once with the dive brake on just to hear that awesome siren!

Bomber_Dude
06-29-2004, 06:53 PM
The Go-229 has air brakes as well but I guess noe one ever flys it !

http://www.computech-online.net/~garyb/pix/sig01.jpg

Relant2000
06-29-2004, 07:00 PM
I use my space bar for the bail out comand. I have a HOTAS and my keyboard is in front of that.
So if I have to bail out I stretch forward and hit it. A bit like stretching out to pull the canopy back I suppose.
Ah the things I do for realism http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

BennyMoore
06-29-2004, 09:30 PM
There's a huge problem with the dive brake on the Stuka. When you engage it, the autopilot automatically trims your aircraft for dive bombing. You cannot even override it with manual trim. Now, I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that this is unrealistic and the real Stuka had to be trimmed manually for diving. If this is the case, then I think it should be changed to the way it really was. I don't like having my hand held - if the real pilots had to deal with it, then I want to as well (I'm not talking about stupid stuff like flying for weeks without seeing an enemy or not being able to refly when you get killed, nitpickers; I'm talking about realism in flight and damage models and controls and all that).

Oilburner_TAW
06-29-2004, 09:53 PM
I saw a show on the History Channel about the Stuka and I remember that it had some type of manual autopilot when you dived that once the stick was pulled back (to pull out of the dive) it would keep pulling it back, climb, and then somewhat level off because a lot of pilots passed out from the excessive G's...they never said if the G's were from the dive or the pullout though..i've always been interested in this and how it actually worked.

BennyMoore
06-29-2004, 10:01 PM
It would be the pullout, because a straight dive won't pull the blood out of your head. It's when you suddenly put all of that "weight" into your downward axis that the blood falls.

Anyway, that would be cool if it was modelled, but that's not the same thing as what I'm talking about. Also, I've never blacked out from pulling out of a dive with the Stuke. What's the deal? Elevator strength bastardized?

Dammerung
06-29-2004, 10:05 PM
Its just not modeled. In Stukabombing, after you blow your load(not like that pervs), just retract the airbrake and it'll auto-level. All that's left is to shake the 12 LaGGs that got on your tail, and look through the window at the bottom to watch those 6 tanks burn http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/784.gif

Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...
The whole damn place is full of queers, navigators, and bombadiers...
Oh, there are no fighter pilots down in hell...

Fehler
06-29-2004, 10:51 PM
Has anyone ever considered this question about dive recovery breaks?

When deployed on the P38, why does the nose suddenly pitch upwards? Wouldnt the plane tend to nose down briefly as the lift under the wing is disturbed and slowed down?

I see people use it online to pull that tiny extra bit of lead they need to fire, but IMHO I think this is quite unrealistic. I have also noticed that if they are deployed and retracted the plane will get the benefit of extra (Immediate) turning ability but not lose speed. How is that?

Dive recovery breaks are designed to slow a plane down to allow more bite at the elevator; yes?

So how does slowing a plane cause it to lurch upwards? Sounds a bit contradictory to me.

On the stuka, they make the plane lurch down as they properly should.

Any comments?

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

tttiger
06-29-2004, 11:28 PM
Fehler, use an external view when you hit the dive brakes on the P-38L and see what happens.

They're nothing more than a pair of large flaps. What do flaps do? They pitch the nose up (and usually off the target you're trying to bomb).

On dive bombers such as the Dauntless, they're both on the top and bottom of the wings so they offset each other and dont affect the bomb run.

For what it's worth, I use the V key, a holdover from the air brakes command in WarBirds. Easy to remember: V = Velocity. I use the space bar for wheel brakes, also a WarBirds key code. Any old habit I can drag from one sim to another, I take along http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

BennyMoore
06-30-2004, 09:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
I see people use it online to pull that tiny extra bit of lead they need to fire, but IMHO I think this is quite unrealistic. I have also noticed that if they are deployed and retracted the plane will get the benefit of extra (Immediate) turning ability but not lose speed. How is that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First of all, you don't fly P-38 in the game, do you?

Secondly, I recall something about real life P-38 pilots being told not to use the dive brake to help them turn because it was too easy too lose all of your speed and become a sitting duck (which is exactly what happens in the game every time I do that). They were told rather to use it very briefly to push their nose up to fire, the exact way you are suggesting is unrealistic. Now, I'm with you; it doesn't make sense to me, either, considering that since the brake is on the bottom of the wing, it should make the lower half of the wing travel slower than the upper half, therefore making the nose drop. However, apparently this is not the case. I don't know why. Perhaps it's because the airflow is redirected downwards when it hits the airbrake, causing the wing to lift.

Also, you said that people can use it to turn better without losing speed. You, sir, need to try this. You will lose twenty kilometers per hour of speed within a very few seconds. At four hundred and fifty kilometers per hour, it takes about two seconds to lose twenty kilometers per hour. And it doesn't stop there, oh no. That is why I no longer try to turn with the airbrake unless I am in a one on one and I know that I can outturn him at slow speed (like an FW-190). Otherwise, it's suicide as I throw away all of my energy, and it takes the P-38 a lot longer to get its energy back than other planes. If you try to outturn someone with the airbrake and fail, you will not get a chance to amend your error. Extending is no longer an option. And it usually does fail; although the turn rate with the airbrake on at high speed is phenomenal and great enough to outturn almost everything, you only get to turn with airbrake on at high speed for a few short seconds, because then it ceases to be at high speed. The airbrake will take care of that.

That said, Gibbage says that Oleg is reducing the air brake effect, and while I'm sort of frothing at the mouth at the P-38 being made even less effective than it already is, I must say I agree with his decision. The airbrake just doesn't seem right to me the way it is.

On the other hand, I think that the elevator should be more effective (look at the size of that thing), and I know that the plane should be about forty kilometers per hour faster at high altitude and have a somewhat higher ceiling. And then there's the unfixable torque issue. But none of these, I am convinced, are a good reason to overmodel it in another area, like the airbrake. So that is why I am glad that it's being toned down.