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HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 03:04 AM
Oh yes, the words ''hardcore'' and ''casual'' one of them celebrated, one of them shunned.
Just in case you dont know what those two words mean, here you go:
Casual-A game that is generally marketed for a mass audience of casual gamers, those games generally are not really complex and don't require much devotion, they require no real special skills or commitment either.

A hardcore game is pretty much the opposite of above, more complex, requires quite a bit of devotion and can require special skills and commitment.
Now, were does AC fall on this spectrum?

I personally say AC is a casual game.
When you think about it, honestly, AC is a really simple game. You can even say that the game plays itself *The free running is holding two buttons*
The game lacks any sort of challenge, and anybody can really pick it up and play just as well. And there is not much complexity in terms of gameplay.

Now, a casual game is not necessarily a bad game, not at all, and a hardcore game is not necessarily a good game.
Where do you guys think AC falls in the spectrum?

Assassin_M
08-04-2012, 03:08 AM
Quite honestly, I believe AC does require some amount of skill, seeing as I see some people come here and complain about Combat being hard, or timed free running sequences being unbearable or Glyphs being Unsolvable..

naran6142
08-04-2012, 03:24 AM
The way I see it is that AC is an easy game but you can have different skill level

someone who has played AC for a long time knows the limits of the system, what will work best, what wont

some new might find it hard because they dont know the way of the game as someone else might

tho this applies to all games, but i prefer AC as a pick up and play game anyways

WolfTemplar94
08-04-2012, 03:27 AM
It's an easy game that's hard to be really good at. It takes a lot to know what the best strategy is, and the best paths to take while free running. It's still a casual game though, which is important.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 03:33 AM
...Isn't the best strategy put on the hidden blades and kill everything with 1 button :p?
''Best paths while free running'' mind elaborating a bit on that? you mean as in while in missions?

Assassin_M
08-04-2012, 03:40 AM
...Isn't the best strategy put on the hidden blades and kill everything with 1 button :p?
''Best paths while free running'' mind elaborating a bit on that? you mean as in while in missions?
Best paths as in, smooth free runs without botches or interruptions. the quickest path possible..

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 03:46 AM
I just look at my map and just run over there, personally, I dont really care what route, I will get there eventually :p
But that is just me.

Assassin_M
08-04-2012, 03:50 AM
I just look at my map and just run over there, personally, I dont really care what route, I will get there eventually :p
But that is just me.
yeah... just you.

I think Its like Alex said, AC`s difficulty is not traditional. you`ll win the game eventually, but it takes skill to do it with finesse.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 03:54 AM
Wasn't that what he used to describe ACIII? or the whole series?
I actually think the game being casual is one of the selling points. It really empowers you so much, it's tons of fun.

Assassin_M
08-04-2012, 03:56 AM
Wasn't that what he used to describe ACIII? or the whole series?
I actually think the game being casual is one of the selling points. It really empowers you so much, it's tons of fun.
He didnt use it exclusively for AC III, and it goes well with the rest of the series..

For example a fight with against the Jannissaries. You`ll win in the end, BUT to do it perfectly and smoothly, you`ll need skill..

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 04:01 AM
Counter steal, counter steal, counter steal, or kill a normal guard and keep chaining off the Jannissaries.
I think difficulty settings would be a really good idea for the series. Make it like their old plan, one hit and you die.

Assassin_M
08-04-2012, 04:06 AM
Counter steal, counter steal, counter steal, or kill a normal guard and keep chaining off the Jannissaries.
I think difficulty settings would be a really good idea for the series. Make it like their old plan, one hit and you die.
You cant chain off the Janissary.. They block.

and not necessarily counter steal, there are other approaches, also spamming is neither skill nor finesse.

Going to the original plan will annoy A LOT. I don't see it happening.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 04:10 AM
This may be a glitch then, when I attack a Janissary, Ezio ''damages'' him, right? I can chain from that to the other Janissary, than I chain from that, to the other, I keep doing so until one of them just dies.
Why not? it would be optional, for those seeking a challenge. You dont have to do it.

Assassin_M
08-04-2012, 04:14 AM
This may be a glitch then, when I attack a Janissary, Ezio ''damages'' him, right? I can chain from that to the other Janissary, than I chain from that, to the other, I keep doing so until one of them just dies.
Why not? it would be optional, for those seeking a challenge. You dont have to do it.
Never chained after damaging a Janissary.. Hmm.

and I don't see it happening, because they don't seem willing to incorporate a difficulty system.. I`d be glad to use it, but im being Cynical..

SteelCity999
08-04-2012, 04:28 AM
Not really a hard game when compared to other more brutal games out there. I think the casual gamer does not get as much out of the games as a hardcore gamer might - since hardcore gamers are more apt to get into the universe and understand more of the backstory, etc. Skill level as a gamer doesn't really transfer over to gameplay for AC because of how they have designed the game. Of course, that's SP. MP tends to separate the better skilled players and the hardcore gamer definitely has an edge. I think in SP a casual gamer can have just as much fun as any hardcore gamer might but not so much in MP. I personally wish SP was alot more challenging.

menacefox
08-04-2012, 04:28 AM
I think AC manages to balance both types just right.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 04:50 AM
Not really a hard game when compared to other more brutal games out there. I think the casual gamer does not get as much out of the games as a hardcore gamer might - since hardcore gamers are more apt to get into the universe and understand more of the backstory, etc. Skill level as a gamer doesn't really transfer over to gameplay for AC because of how they have designed the game. Of course, that's SP. MP tends to separate the better skilled players and the hardcore gamer definitely has an edge. I think in SP a casual gamer can have just as much fun as any hardcore gamer might but not so much in MP. I personally wish SP was alot more challenging.

Casual gamers can understand a story and get into it as much as a hardcore gamer :nonchalance:

SixKeys
08-04-2012, 05:07 AM
AC a hardcore game? Hahahahaha!!! ..........No.

LoyalACFan
08-04-2012, 08:42 AM
AC is an easy-as-hell casual game. And that's just what I like about it. Sure, throw in optional challenging things if you want, but difficult games are pointless. I don't really see any fun in a game that forces you to retry missions over and over and over to get through them. Because at the end of the day, you really haven't accomplished anything meaningful when you finally get through it. You've just sunk a lot of time into beating a video game. I'd rather pass a level easily rather than grind the same thing dozens of times in a row until I finally get it right.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 08:46 AM
AC is an easy-as-hell casual game. And that's just what I like about it. Sure, throw in optional challenging things if you want, but difficult games are pointless. I don't really see any fun in a game that forces you to retry missions over and over and over to get through them. Because at the end of the day, you really haven't accomplished anything meaningful when you finally get through it. You've just sunk a lot of time into beating a video game. I'd rather pass a level easily rather than grind the same thing dozens of times in a row until I finally get it right.
You get FARRR more satisfaction and epic feeling when you beat a hard as hell game, than a X,X,X game.
Take Ninja Gaiden for example, the game downright punished you, even when you did nothing wrong, it just does, but when you do beat a level, or beat a boos, it feels awesome. Makes you feel like the best player on planet earth.

LoyalACFan
08-04-2012, 08:52 AM
You get FARRR more satisfaction and epic feeling when you beat a hard as hell game, than a X,X,X game.
Take Ninja Gaiden for example, the game downright punished you, even when you did nothing wrong, it just does, but when you do beat a level, or beat a boos, it feels awesome. Makes you feel like the best player on planet earth.

No it doesn't. It makes me feel like I've wasted an hour of my life fighting one stupid boss. Dropping that much time on a game without making any progress makes me feel like I need to get up and do something else, not keep grinding it until I win.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 09:00 AM
It does feel awesome. Because you finally beat him, much more satisfaction than killing everything with one press of a button :nonchalance:
Maybe hard games just dont fit your time/schedule.

LoyalACFan
08-04-2012, 09:06 AM
It does feel awesome. Because you finally beat him, much more satisfaction than killing everything with one press of a button :nonchalance:
Maybe hard games just dont fit your time/schedule.

Well, I did just come off a 19-credit-hour semester, so maybe. But I've never gotten that "combat high" while beating a difficult level. Take Max Payne 3- New York Minute mode for example. I tried it out, got to the fourth or fifth level, started failing, and I eventually just lost interest. I'd rather have a game that's easy enough to keep the pace moving while not being so easy it becomes repetitive. Like Assassin's Creed.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 09:09 AM
...AC is one of the easiest game I ever played. But that does not mean it's repetitive. One of selling points of the game, actually is how much it empowers you. It makes you so powerful it is tons of fun. But after BH? it just got stale. That feeling of empowerment just went..eh, I felt like I wanted more challenge.

Gil_217
08-04-2012, 10:11 AM
Assassin's Creed games are not difficult games, they are quite easy to be honest, and basically everyone acknowledges this, even hardcore fans.

But, like someone pointed out earlier in this thread, the thing about this series, in terms of gameplay and difficulty, is about finesse and completing the missions in the most effective, beautiful and stealthy way possible. That is the challenge of Assassin's Creed games and I believe there are a very few people who could actually do this.

This is very subjective though.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 10:14 AM
Stealthy?
The crossbow. Or walking into groups and magically disappearing.
Honestly I dont count going from point A-B the fastest way possible to be a ''challenge''
It can be easily done, when you think about it. Just..why?
Do you mind explaining what do you mean by ''beautiful''?

Gil_217
08-04-2012, 10:21 AM
Stealthy?
The crossbow. Or walking into groups and magically disappearing.
Honestly I dont count going from point A-B the fastest way possible to be a ''challenge''
It can be easily done, when you think about it. Just..why?
Do you mind explaining what do you mean by ''beautiful''?

Reaching your target undetected, killiing your target undetected, leaving the place undetected. That's beauty. Yeah, I love stealth. I bet most people just rush in and kill the target and then battle 50 guards and that's it.

Off-topic - Join Date: 07-03-2012; Posts: 5,485

WTF!! In the words of Vieri de' Pazzi: What sorcery is this?

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 10:31 AM
Long story, send me a PM if you really want to know.
The problem is the game does not even really encourage it.
Hell, the game at times even throws you into a a fight post-Assassination.

Gil_217
08-04-2012, 10:46 AM
Long story, send me a PM if you really want to know.
The problem is the game does not even really encourage it.
Hell, the game at times even throws you into a a fight post-Assassination.

Yes, that's sometimes true, but when something like that happens, we can't really do much, since that's how it needs to be done. But most of the times, even if the game doesn't encourage me to do it stealthy, I still try to do it, but that's just me. Now obviously, it can not always be stealth, we need variety to, and that's why they sometimes encourage us to do a mission in a different way and I don't really have a problem with that. But, for example, in Assassin's Creed and Assassin's Creed II, since there isn't the 100% synch, I always try to play the game in the stealthiest way possible, not only while completing missions and side missions, but all the time.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 10:48 AM
The problem is in how weak the stealth system is.
It needs to be done much better, add more options, make it more advanced. Why cant we do things like encourage the crowd to start up things so we can sneak by them easily?
And even the stealth isn't to hard, while it is easier than running in like 15th Century Rambo, it certainly is not difficult, from my experience, that is. Your experience may differ.

Gil_217
08-04-2012, 10:57 AM
The problem is in how weak the stealth system is.
It needs to be done much better, add more options, make it more advanced. Why cant we do things like encourage the crowd to start up things so we can sneak by them easily?
And even the stealth isn't to hard, while it is easier than running in like 15th Century Rambo, it certainly is not difficult, from my experience, that is. Your experience may differ.

Yeah, I totally agree with you. For me personally, playing the game stealthily isn't that difficult, but it is at least a little more challenging than playing the game like if you were Rambo.

I agree with you to about how weak the stealth system is, it is very simple but you know what, that's what makes it fun and challenging to play the game stealthily, because we don't really have many options to aid us, you have to adapt with the little options you have, and that makes it more challenging, at least for me, even though it still isn't that difficult. But it's fun.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 11:00 AM
Don't get me wrong, if stealth is improved, the AI must improve, the way they react, etc so it can be balanced.
But even then, with the current combat system, there is just no incentive.
It specially got even EASIER when they gave us 300 weapons.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 11:02 AM
Hasoooon please spread the word. and thank you for telling us about this place.
DESMOND IS REAL PEOPLE! ASSASSIN'S CREED IS REAL!
I was playing Assassin's Creed on Sega Saturn, and suddenly I found a secret message inside the borgia's butt, it said ''THIS IS ALL REAL IN ANOTHER DIMENSION, THIS IS A WARNING, PLEASE, YOU HAVE TO HELP US!''
omg I am so scared, can anyone help me? PLEASE, if anything happens to me, please spread it, I dont want it to stay unnoticed
Not sure when I ever did tell you about this place, but okay.
I think stealth would be SOOOOOOOO much better if they had a special mode called ''Stealth mode'' were enemies kill with 1 hit.

Gil_217
08-04-2012, 11:13 AM
LOL

It will not happen man.

It would be much better if it's game over as soon as you were spotted. That would be glorious. Make it happen Ubisoft. Make it a special mode to be unlocked at Uplay and only people who want to play it that way would buy it and play it.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 11:16 AM
The problem is people would still complain, that they cant get the ''full experience'' because it's to hard.
It was close to happening, the original plan for AC1 was 1 hit and you die.
Somebody in Ubisoft probably thought it was too ''tough''
Just wait and see what the series has become. One of the easiest, if not the easiest, game out there right now :nonchalance:
I mean, what is the point of using stealth if you can just fight past everything?

Gil_217
08-04-2012, 11:29 AM
But look, only people who actually want to play this Special Mode would play it, the normal difficulty will still be there, so I don't really see a problem with this concept. No one will be bothered, on the contrary.

About your second point, then people are just lazy if they play the game in the easiest way possible. I, for example, don't need an incentive by Ubisoft or somebody else to play the game in the most challenging way, I do it because I want, because it's much more fun that way. If people know they can play the game in a more challenging way but they still play it in the easiest way then they really shouldn't be crying for the game to be harder. But that's just my point of view.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 11:35 AM
I believe that logic is flawed.
Some people may just not like stealth, the game should be equally difficult in combat. They should not be punished for having a different play style :nonchalance:
The problem is there is no actual advantage of playing stealthy, so that takes away any reason for anybody to do stealth, which is the problem. Most of the players, it seems, dont think the same way as you do. Ubi was emphasize stealth more.

Gil_217
08-04-2012, 11:39 AM
To each their own then.

EscoBlades
08-04-2012, 02:29 PM
Assassin's Creed games are not difficult games, they are quite easy to be honest, and basically everyone acknowledges this, even hardcore fans.

But, like someone pointed out earlier in this thread, the thing about this series, in terms of gameplay and difficulty, is about finesse and completing the missions in the most effective, beautiful and stealthy way possible. That is the challenge of Assassin's Creed games and I believe there are a very few people who could actually do this.

This is very subjective though.

Couldn't have put it better myself quite frankly.

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 02:37 PM
To each their own then.

And the problem is, even if people took the stealth route, it is still easy, just harder than killing everything. Meaning both ways they are getting a easy experience, just one of them is less easy, but still easy.
I personally think combat must become difficult, and stealth needs to be upgraded and made more difficult aswell. So both sides of the spectrum can get a challenge.
Overall make a more difficult game.

MangoCookies
08-04-2012, 02:43 PM
Casual gaming for sure. The only thing that actually requires a bit of focus is perhaps sprinting while not hitting civilians ;)

Everything else is easy.

BBALive
08-04-2012, 03:13 PM
Casual. Pretty easy question to answer.

thekarlone
08-04-2012, 03:20 PM
Neither casual nor hardcore. It is a middle ground.

rednas3636
08-04-2012, 03:54 PM
Both the freerunning(bigger streets) and combat in Revelations became less casual
but all the rest did xD

HaSoOoN-MHD
08-04-2012, 03:56 PM
Free running became more casual in Rev, the hookblade was it so easy /:
Combat was still the same. The Janissary did not add much.

ProletariatPleb
08-04-2012, 04:41 PM
Casual. But it's not bad.............yet.

rednas3636
08-04-2012, 05:42 PM
Compare combat from brotherhood to that from revelations
in Brotherhood it's striking trice to start a killing streak
Revelations is much more

bout freerunning: they made the streeds much wider then , which requires you to plan more forehand what way you'll take (if on rooftops).

superninja2013
08-04-2012, 08:28 PM
I define a casual game as a game that deals with themes in their games in a generally less complex way and is all about accessibility for the user. Based on my definition of a casual game, no AC isn't casual. Not only is the story quite complex, my girlfriend couldn't jump in and immediately start playing like she could with the SIms or some Facebook game.
However, if I had to put it somewhere on the spectrum of casual-to-hardcore, it would probably be somewhere near the middle. Leaning towards hardcore because of it's story and complex gameplay (complex if you never play video games anyway).

mazohystic
08-06-2012, 01:43 AM
If we're talking about in terms of difficulty: casual. Definitely casual. Although I do find some parts of the games hard. I don't play video games, not really. I'm more of a Sly Cooper and Sims kind of person. As someone who is horrible at video games, it was incredibly empowering to be able to do all these cool things and succeed in them. That's a first. I'm pretty sloppy in my approach (example: trying to kill everyone while forgetting that countering and chain kills exists) but I get it done! That being said, those 100% synch failed messages never ceases to fail to piss me off.

Back to the point. I have to agree with superninja2013. It's really not a casual game for me. I find it quite taxing actually. I've invested so much time and emotion in to this series that there's no way that I can say it's just a casual experience, no way! The story is just so complex, even the characters. The AC universe is just so huge and detailed and beautiful. How can that be called casual? Then again, that's just my personal view on it.

crash3
08-06-2012, 12:02 PM
I have no sympathy for gamers who complain the AC games are too hard, all of us have been there, we have all started out unfamiliar to the game's controls and we have all gotten the hang of it, I really hope AC3 is more hardcore and not toned down to avoid a few complaints from people not willing to persevere with it. After playing the ridiculously easy Ezio trilogy Im ready to be put to the test in AC3 in every aspect

Who agrees?

De Filosoof
08-06-2012, 12:49 PM
I have no sympathy for gamers who complain the AC games are too hard, all of us have been there, we have all started out unfamiliar to the game's controls and we have all gotten the hang of it, I really hope AC3 is more hardcore and not toned down to avoid a few complaints from people not willing to persevere with it. After playing the ridiculously easy Ezio trilogy Im ready to be put to the test in AC3 in every aspect

Who agrees?

Alex stated that someone's little brother/sister could finish the game but that it would be hard to look good at it, something like that.
I'm so curious about the new controls like using 1 button for sprinting and all the automated stuff like jumping into a fighting position when people want to fight him.
I really hope it feels just as awesome and addictive as previous AC games. But i trust the AC team and i don't think they will dumb it down, just make it more fluid.

raytrek79
08-06-2012, 01:07 PM
I think AC targets a mass consumer market and so they tend to keep game play easy enough for a generally casual audience. But this is not to say that it cannot be taken by hardcore gamers and mastered to degrees that require a lot of commitment to reach.

Kit572
08-06-2012, 01:09 PM
I have no sympathy for gamers who complain the AC games are too hard, all of us have been there, we have all started out unfamiliar to the game's controls and we have all gotten the hang of it, I really hope AC3 is more hardcore and not toned down to avoid a few complaints from people not willing to persevere with it. After playing the ridiculously easy Ezio trilogy Im ready to be put to the test in AC3 in every aspect

Who agrees?

I would LOVE to have a challenge in the AC3! Challenges make a game more enjoyable... unless they are too annoying like feather collecting...