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Yellonet
07-16-2004, 08:31 AM
Could we have larger skins than the ones we have in FB? Maybe 2048x2048? You really can't squeeze in that much on 1024x1024 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
Is skin size a limitation in the game engine?

How big a strain on the FR would 2048x2048 skins be? They would take up 4 times the space of 1024x1024 skins.

If it's too much for todays computers, I sure like to have the ability to make larger skins in the future.


- Yellonet

Yellonet
07-16-2004, 08:31 AM
Could we have larger skins than the ones we have in FB? Maybe 2048x2048? You really can't squeeze in that much on 1024x1024 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
Is skin size a limitation in the game engine?

How big a strain on the FR would 2048x2048 skins be? They would take up 4 times the space of 1024x1024 skins.

If it's too much for todays computers, I sure like to have the ability to make larger skins in the future.


- Yellonet

GT182
07-16-2004, 08:40 AM
Yellonet, I'm not a skinner but have a question.

Can you enlarge the templates 2048x2048, do the detail work you need, then reduce it back to 1024x1024 and put it back in the game?

Seems this could be a work-around to "gitter done".

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
www.bombs-away.net/forums (http://www.bombs-away.net/forums)
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

Yellonet
07-16-2004, 08:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
Yellonet, I'm not a skinner but have a question.

Can you enlarge the templates 2048x2048, do the detail work you need, then reduce it back to 1024x1024 and put it back in the game?

Seems this could be a work-around to "gitter done".

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
http://www.bombs-away.net/forums
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the added detail would be lost when you size the image down again.


- Yellonet

GT182
07-16-2004, 08:50 AM
Ok, thanks for the answer. ~S!~

Someday I'll have to learn how to do skins. It is hard for an "old dog" to learn new tricks tho. LOL

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
www.bombs-away.net/forums (http://www.bombs-away.net/forums)
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"

Yellonet
07-16-2004, 08:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
Ok, thanks for the answer. ~S!~

Someday I'll have to learn how to do skins. It is hard for an "old dog" to learn new tricks tho. LOL

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
http://www.bombs-away.net/forums
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm no skinner either. I've started on a few skins but never finished one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Thinking about getting a pen tablet and get started for real, isn't all that difficult http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


- Yellonet

Hoarmurath
07-16-2004, 11:31 AM
Aren't you afraid that bigger textures would mean bigger lag online?

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/)

Yellonet
07-16-2004, 11:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hoarmurath:
Aren't you afraid that bigger textures would mean bigger lag online?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. You would still be able to use smaller skins online (it would be up to the host).


- Yellonet

Troll2k
07-16-2004, 01:28 PM
Yes.Up to the host.Most every server now has skin download turned off because of the stutters a 1 meg skin download causes.I suspect any higher resolution skins would also be turned off in most servers.Good for screen shots though.

Yellonet
07-16-2004, 01:55 PM
And offline gaming.


- Yellonet

DuxCorvan
07-17-2004, 03:50 AM
Mmmm, as a skinner I've always wanted this. Much detail gets lost. Anyway, I'd prefer the actual models in FB to have better mapping. Most of them are a pain due to distortion, weird mapping, strange folding, one-side dubbed parts and cr*ppy voids.

Tooz_69GIAP
07-17-2004, 07:39 AM
The biggest problem when it comes to skin download is when noone in the server has the skin already in their cache, or aircraft skin folder.

There are times at the start of a coop or something where everyone's ping can be way up around 1,000ms simply coz they are dling everyone's skins.

A way to partially solve this, especially if you are a part of a squad, or fly with a regular group of people, is to download all of the most common skins used such as squad skins, or whatever, and place them all in your skin folder.

This basically removes virtually all lag associated with dling a skin, coz you don't have to dl as it is already in your folder. The 69th have done this ever since a former member tipped us off about this. Works a treat!!

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_tooz.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)
Komandir Eskadrilya, 69th GShAP
Za Rodinu!
Petition to stop the M3 motorway through the Tara-Skryne Valley in Co. Meath, Ireland (http://www.petitiononline.com/hilltara/petition.html)

DuxCorvan
07-18-2004, 01:38 PM
Too large skin can make the vision harder with cockpit on: http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

http://www.torox.ro/images/sharpei.jpg

Henry_Shrapnel
06-01-2007, 09:12 PM
I have a technical question about this. Assuming the end user has enabled the skin downloads at what point do the downloads occur? In other words would the player's virtual aircraft with the non default skin have to come within a certain distance of one's own virtual aircraft or does the download occur as soon as one enters the game? Also has anyone actually done any real scientific test to determine how much lag occurs due to the download of non default skins? So far all I have heard is hearsay on this topic. The reason I ask is that I have not noticed any significant lag effect caused by non default skins from other players and it seems to me the issue may simply be mass hysteria of server administrators. I've heard the argument that if everyone had custom skins there would be a great deal of lag but I see no evidence to support the argument. Also even if 30 or so players on a dogfight server all coincidentally were using non default skins the chances of them all entering the game at once seem rather remote and I find it hard to believe that they would get downloaded over and over again each time one comes near their virtual aircraft in the game. In my opinion very few people would use non default skins even if allowed due to laziness and banning the non default skins takes more away from the game than the unproven benefits of banning them. The main problem of banning non default skins is that it is no longer possible to tell one players aircraft from the next with icons disabled without doing some trick like flashing lights in the game. In my opinion this reduces realism in the game to ban custom skins on a dogfight server while providing no proven benefit.

FritzGryphon
06-02-2007, 04:44 AM
You can view skins via external camera regardless of range, so the download must start immediately. And with many megabytes of skins being transfered, it would have to have some effect on latency.

A single 512x512 skin is 256kb. So 30 of these would be 7.7mb. In 1024x1024, it would be 30mb of skins.

It would be like downloading something in the background while you play the game (and simultaneously uploading -your- skin). I know for a fact that makes my ping skyrocket. I can't even download MP3s while I play.

The skin is only downloaded once, then saved in your cache for further encounters. You can find them in il2directory/paintschemes/skins/netcache

MaxMhz
06-02-2007, 05:14 AM
About the download process of skins:

A new skin gets uploaded to the host the moment the new skin owner enters the game. After that the skin gets distributed to all others that need it when the game running has time to do so. It can take quite a while for a new skin to apear on someone flying it in-game. From this you can already see that MUCH more bandwidth is involved to upload the skins to all the users than the measly 1024x1024 bytes. If 10 players need the new skin, upload from the host would already be 10MB for only one skin (and 1MB download host-side)

XyZspineZyX
06-02-2007, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yellonet:
Could we have larger skins than the ones we have in FB? Maybe 2048x2048? You really can't squeeze in that much on 1024x1024 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
Is skin size a limitation in the game engine?

How big a strain on the FR would 2048x2048 skins be? They would take up 4 times the space of 1024x1024 skins.

If it's too much for todays computers, I sure like to have the ability to make larger skins in the future.


- Yellonet </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm fitting in a lot in 1024x1024, 356 color, and I am hardly the best skinner out there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif My name is on the tailwheel tire, and legible in-game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif 2048x2048 will wait until SoW:BoB, but we can do a fair bit right now:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/red.jpg

MaxMhz
06-02-2007, 07:59 AM
Agreed BBB462cid; Using Bright to sample down to 256 indexed colour mode can also help improve the final skin quality. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif SoW will have bigger skins than FB.

XyZspineZyX
06-02-2007, 08:45 AM
I typed "356 color" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-02-2007, 07:26 PM
2048x2048 will arrive with BoB. (and possibly KoTS)

NHawk52
06-03-2007, 06:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yellonet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GT182:
Can you enlarge the templates 2048x2048, do the detail work you need, then reduce it back to 1024x1024 and put it back in the game?

Seems this could be a work-around to "gitter done".

"GT182" / "Stab/JG51_vonSpinmeister"
http://www.bombs-away.net/forums
"Fly to Survive, Survive to Fly" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the added detail would be lost when you size the image down again.


- Yellonet </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

To maintain your details, first save the flat as an .eps file (assuming your paint program will support it). Then resize it to 200% -- eps's won't distort the details while sizing. Do your work on the big flat, then save it again as the same .eps file. Then downsize it back to 50% and all your detailing will be maintained. Convert it then to the needed .bmp needed and you should be all set. (I used to do that with NR2003 skins and it worked well.) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
06-03-2007, 06:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by NHawk52:
To maintain your details, first save the flat as an .eps file (assuming your paint program will support it). Then resize it to 200% -- eps's won't distort the details while sizing. Do your work on the big flat, then save it again as the same .eps file. Then downsize it back to 50% and all your detailing will be maintained. Convert it then to the needed .bmp needed and you should be all set. (I used to do that with NR2003 skins and it worked well.) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will have to try that.... What do you mean by save the flat... save the layer and is that DCS 1.0 or 2.0?

NHawk52
06-09-2007, 12:15 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
I will have to try that.... What do you mean by save the flat... save the layer and is that DCS 1.0 or 2.0? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I only worked with 1.0 within PSP.

By "flat", I meant the 2D layer. Since eps doesn't retain multiple layers or transparencies, I had to work with each necessary layer separately and then reconstitute/reassemble them after the resizing process. Because of those issues, I generally only used the process when working with specific detailing and as few layers as possible. It is obviously more intensive work, but sometimes it was the only assurance of getting that really desired detail "just right". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif