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JV44_Wubke
05-02-2004, 08:32 AM
Do the pilots of different planes suffer the effects of g forces differently? The other night I was flying a G6 A/S and had a P-51 on me. We were very close to the same speed and alt. I turned hard,right on the edge of blacking out. He not only followed but pulled a lead, and therefore even more gs than me. Not just through one turn but a series of S turns so it was obvious he wasn't just guessing, even though my screen was black all but for about a 1 inch window in the center....thoughts?

JV44_Wubke
05-02-2004, 08:32 AM
Do the pilots of different planes suffer the effects of g forces differently? The other night I was flying a G6 A/S and had a P-51 on me. We were very close to the same speed and alt. I turned hard,right on the edge of blacking out. He not only followed but pulled a lead, and therefore even more gs than me. Not just through one turn but a series of S turns so it was obvious he wasn't just guessing, even though my screen was black all but for about a 1 inch window in the center....thoughts?

HangerQueen
05-02-2004, 09:26 AM
I find I can pull blackout Gs in the Yak 3 without even trying-that's why I don't usually fly it. Maybe US pilots had rudimentary G-suits? Did such things exist in WW2?

"Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom." Isaiah 40:28

TooCooL34
05-02-2004, 09:32 AM
Assuming bandit on your 6 is following the exact same course & G what you went through is wrong already.

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CaptainGelo
05-02-2004, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HangerQueen:
I find I can pull blackout Gs in the Yak 3 without even trying-that's why I don't usually fly it. Maybe US pilots had rudimentary G-suits? Did such things exist in WW2?

"Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He will not grow tired or weary, and his understanding no one can fathom." Isaiah 40:28<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

some1 sad that we may get G-suits for US planes in the patch..

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moksha
05-02-2004, 10:23 AM
Might be something to do with seating in cockpit, different in different planes.
Some Spit pilots during BOB raised pedal to lessen effects of blood rushing to feet which was not such a problem in 109's owing to more of a bucket type seet or higher pedals forget which..

(Try sitting with knees at chin ;-))

Dmitri9mm
05-02-2004, 12:17 PM
I sometimes use a tactic if I'm flying at high speeds and I'm sure that my plane turns better than my opponents.
I simply ease off the turn every once in a while, always keeping on his six but never even entering a blackout, the trick is to ease off before the screen becomes all black at the edges.
This requires some practise since you have to be gentle or you'll stall or at least suffer a massive energy drain if you're not careful.
Your opponent might have used this tactic, but I can assure you it was not me, since I hardly ever fly the dead horse - sorry the Pony http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Tully__
05-02-2004, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JV44_Wubke:
Do the pilots of different planes suffer the effects of g forces differently? The other night I was flying a G6 A/S and had a P-51 on me. We were very close to the same speed and alt. I turned hard,right on the edge of blacking out. He not only followed but pulled a lead, and therefore even more gs than me. Not just through one turn but a series of S turns so it was obvious he wasn't just guessing, even though my screen was black all but for about a 1 inch window in the center....thoughts?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unless he was very close he probably wasn't pulling more G than you. If he was 150-200m back, he has to turn through a lot smaller angle to pull lead. It requires less G to turn through a smaller angle in the same time.

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JG14_Josf
05-02-2004, 01:33 PM
From Fight Combat by Robert Shaw:

"...it can easily be seen that turn radius is minimized by high G at slow speed. Likewise, turn rate is maximized by high G at slow speed."

Turn performance is maximized at the highest G possible at the slowest speed possible. In other words at Corner speed.

If the fight is conducted above corner speed then turn performance is degraded due to excessive speed.

If the fight is conducted below corner speed then turn performace is degraded due to insufficient speed (not enough speed to pull high Gs).

If one plane is going above corner speed and blacking out his turn rate and radius will be wider than another plane going at corner speed and blacking out.

However the plane turning above corner speed will be burning energy and velocity approaching corner speed, his turn performance is increasing.

The plane flying at corner speed will be burning energy and velocity dropping below corner speed, his turn performance is decreasing.

Also, different planes have different corner speeds. For example an Fw190A8 may have a corner speed at 400kph below this speed the plane cannot generate enough g force to black out the pilot, above this speed the plane is going too fast to maximize turn performance, compared to a Spitfire VB that may have a corner speed of 350kph; if both planes are traveling at 400kph in a turn the 190 and the Spitfire start out with exactly the same turn peformance since the game models the exact same pilot G force limitations for both planes, however as each degree per second passes in the turn the 190 no longer has the energy to pull enough g to turn (black out the pilot), while the Spitfire maintains the 7 or so G's right up to 350kph.

The reason both planes should have the same turn performance above speeds of the plane with the highest corner speed should be obvious, because even if the plane was capable of turning harder above those speeds the pilots are not capable of pulling more g force and therefore more turn performance.

Which leaves the last unknown in the game; Energy maneuverability.

If one plane burns a whole lot more energy during a turn than another plane the more efficient plane will retain turn performance longer, gain more angles with a higher energy state.

P.S.

Same speed, same G force should equal the same turn performance.

Back to Figher Combat:

'Note that for a given turn, if any two of the four variables are known, the other two are fixed. For example, if a fighter pulls 6Gs at 400 knots, its turn radius will be about 2,400 ft and the corresponding rate of turn will be about 16 deg. per second'

[This message was edited by JG14_Josf on Sun May 02 2004 at 12:53 PM.]