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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 10:13 PM
I've just flown a campaign mission in my lovely, shiny BF-109 F4.

My flight was tasked to protect a nine-ship flight of He-111s. Mid way towards the target, He-111 #3 decided to cruise into the back of He-111 #4. The two of them fell to their doom in flames. Two minutes later, He-111 #7 (obviously feeling inspired by his comrades) buried himself into He-111 #9. From 9 to 5 in two easy steps.

Three I-16s jumped us just north of Sevastopol and battle was joined. A minute or two later, there was only one left. However, the Luftwaffe's superior training came to the fore once more as the #3 aircraft in our flight decided to shoot down our flight lead.

Five aircraft down without any enemy involvement what-so-ever. The Russians should have just put their feet up and enjoyed a vodka or three... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Surely this should have been one of the major issues addressed in the patch? It's not like it's a really trivial, minor issue. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif





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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 10:13 PM
I've just flown a campaign mission in my lovely, shiny BF-109 F4.

My flight was tasked to protect a nine-ship flight of He-111s. Mid way towards the target, He-111 #3 decided to cruise into the back of He-111 #4. The two of them fell to their doom in flames. Two minutes later, He-111 #7 (obviously feeling inspired by his comrades) buried himself into He-111 #9. From 9 to 5 in two easy steps.

Three I-16s jumped us just north of Sevastopol and battle was joined. A minute or two later, there was only one left. However, the Luftwaffe's superior training came to the fore once more as the #3 aircraft in our flight decided to shoot down our flight lead.

Five aircraft down without any enemy involvement what-so-ever. The Russians should have just put their feet up and enjoyed a vodka or three... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Surely this should have been one of the major issues addressed in the patch? It's not like it's a really trivial, minor issue. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif





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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:22 PM
Hmmm... the roll-rate of the P-47 causes massed discussion yet no one cares about entire flights decimating themselves?

What am I missing?



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XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:26 PM
Yeah AI bombers seem brilliant. I havnt played with them yet since the patch, but I am guessing I wont be trying the campaign anytime soon.


"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"The future battle on the ground will be preceded by battle in the air. This will determine which of the contestants has to suffer operational and tactical disadvantages and be forced throughout the battle into adoption compromise solutions." --Erwin Rommel

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/Mesig.jpg
--NJG26_Killa--

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:33 PM
i agree it is annoying when the AI decides to immolate itself for no reason.

That said it's not just the LW that is affected by this.

I took my Yak-1 up into the air and decided to take on 8 Bf109s all by my lonesome.

Now i thought shooting down 5 (count'em, FIVE!) Messers all by myself would mean only mopping up for the friendly AI.

Not really. Six (count'em 6!!!) of the friendly AI managed to get themselves killed long before catching sight of the enemy.

Possibly this should be Oleg's Room but it made me wish for a couple of options -

1) Ability to Refuel and Reload.

2) Permission to shoot crash-happy squadmates. :-)

if

3) Fix the Crash-happy AI isn't in the patch.

Gonna have to fly a few missions. Every now and then there seems to be one or two AI pilots DETERMINED to kill themselves and whoever is in the vicinity.

i remember one Crimean campaignw here no matter what i tried, this one pilot kept ramming himself into a mountain.

Eventually i gave up reflying and just let him.

Once the patch is around for a bit, hopefully others can say whether this has been fixed?

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:50 PM
Gee and I thopught this was a discussion leading into the stupidity of the German High Command/Leadership and their general arrogance. Instead I find it's a suicidal AI issue. I think the AI might need some help here as the Germans in the field were quite competent and very good at their assigned tasks but their abilities were squandered by their leaders.

Why so many people died for such crap is beyond me but I hope we can learn from it and it has given us this simulation.

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 11:52 PM
prepatch, i was doing a campaign, waiting for takeoff an viewing some freindly mustangs strafe enemy as they were taking off . . . . The mustangs did 3/4 passes while I was watching, but the lined up so badly they didn't get a single shot off. This is tops, tho, They did a nice, tight, formationg loop . . way up, over, way down . . . straight into the ground. 4 pilots. who could have taken the odds down lots for me to be able to win the mission. Tight formation. Into the ground.


All I can say is this: damned tree-huggers!

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 01:36 AM
hi
i noticed a similar occurrance playing dr.hangar lenningrad
1 mission,i used to killed by flak before even firing a shot.this time it was different.
as i m flying over the water,i look down just in time to see 1 he111 run right into the 1 in front,doh.
on the bright side i didn t get killed by flak,lol.

After it was refeuled i climbed in.With many manipulations the mechcanics started the turbines.I followed their actions with the greatest of interest.The first one started quite easily.the second caught fire.In no time the whole engine was on fire.Luckily as a fighter pilot i was used to getting quickly out of the cockpit.The fire was quickly put out.The second plane caused no trouble - Adolf Galland (first time in a ME262)

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:10 AM
Yay! It's not just me!

Thanks for the responses, guys.

I was thinking about this last night, though, and came to the realisation that the reason it's not a huge issue on these boards is that the majority of players are online flyers who never touch the campaign.

I think I understand now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Regardless, I'd love to see this fixed as it makes the sim inordinately frustrating and is very disheartening.

As a final note, I wasn't being a Luft-whiner about this. I'm well aware that it applies equally to both sides. Equally, I'm sorry if anyone came to the thread expecting deep and meaningful discussion of German strategy during WWII. I just thought that the title was a bit more imaginative than "Stupid AI" or some such.



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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 09:19 AM
Online players are waaay overrepresented on these boards. Only about 10% of players _ever_ play online (or so I hear). I have not yet tried the campaign again, but I will be very disappointed if the AI is no less suicidal than before.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:18 AM
FB pre-patch as well post-patch is only good for playing online (preferably on scripted servers), offline is only for some training (basic training I mean..)

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:29 AM
FireBird77 wrote:
- FB pre-patch as well post-patch is only good for
- playing online (preferably on scripted servers),
- offline is only for some training (basic training I
- mean..)
-


...but that absolutely shouldn't be the case. It's really bad that something as massively, glaring wrong as this has been addressed in even the most token fashion. If the devs are concentrating solely on the online aspect, they should come out and say so.

I hate to sound like one of the complaining, mewling masses, but this issue is big enough that it shouldn't be allowed to slide.





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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:37 AM
I have several homemade missions with lots of bombers in them, and they all work well, just like before the patch. I have all bomber pilot AI set to Ace - could that make a difference?

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 12:17 PM
Pre patch, it's only about 1 mission in 5 or 10 that exhibits suicidal behaviour, but the game was supposed to have a dynamic campaign system, and as it stands, suicidal AI makes the campaign annoying sometimes.

All single missions I have played work fine, it's just the dynamic ones that have bonkers AI.

AchimT wrote:
- I have several homemade missions with lots of
- bombers in them, and they all work well, just like
- before the patch. I have all bomber pilot AI set to
- Ace - could that make a difference?

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 12:37 PM
Bnej_03 wrote:

- All single missions I have played work fine, it's
- just the dynamic ones that have bonkers AI.

If this is true, than it might be the DGen's waypoint system that is the culprit.



--
Joques
Ok, so you've got a Yak
That don't impress me much

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 01:10 PM
B17 Mighty Eighth was like that ... bomber formations required much tweaking of the inf files to get it right ... there was some funny things going on in the early days there too.

cc

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 01:25 PM
I have not had any of the problems described in this thread, which is a bit strange as I must have completed over 200 campaign missions, on both sides, in total.

I have had AI fly into me a few times but those occasions can be attributed to me getting way to close to the AI planes. But never experienced AI ramming into each other.

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 01:42 PM
Redshift1 wrote:
- I have not had any of the problems described in this
- thread, which is a bit strange as I must have
- completed over 200 campaign missions, on both sides,
- in total.


Wish I knew your secret... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif





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XyZspineZyX
08-13-2003, 11:18 PM
GRRR!!!!

I've just flown four more missions and in EVERY SINGLE ONE allied aircraft have been lost whilst flying in formation. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Pitiful. Absolutely pitiful. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif



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