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View Full Version : Reliving memories doesn't make sense story wise



XxSYD3WINDERxX
07-20-2012, 03:46 PM
In all the AC games, we play a lot as an assassin, but why do the team decide to relive so many 'unnecessary' memories?

In the original AC, I can maybe understand that they had no idea about the specific time zone in which Altair obtains the apple and so went through methodically eventually leading to the event, am I right?

But in AC:II, why do they start with Ezio's birth and go through so many uselsess scenes, like meeting with Da Vinci and his time with Christina? Why not skip to the point he meets Minerva?

In AC:B, why do they again revisit all the memories? I vaguely remember them not being able to access the sequence in which Ezio kills Cesare because he hadn't fully 'synched' with Ezio yet, but why was this a problem? Having to go through all of Ezio's life from a baby to then, when they could tap into Altair only 2 months before what they were looking for?

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2012, 03:49 PM
because it's a game? How would you like to pay $60 for a bunch of cutscenes for 10minutes?

AC is afterall a game, the main point was linking the process, not finding faults, you're taking it a bit too seriously.

playassassins1
07-20-2012, 03:51 PM
Yeah, of course. Lets skip to the point where the game ends! Awesome, payed 60 euros for 10-20 minutes of content, really awesome.....

Lass4r
07-20-2012, 03:57 PM
The problem in the first 3 games was that he wasn't synced enough with his ancestors to relive that crucial moment of their life. So he had to go through a lot of the rest of his life first. In Revelations it was more about piecing Desmond back together by fully syncing with Ezio so he could get out of the animus alive. The specifics escape me, some sci-fi stuff :p

TheHumanTowel
07-20-2012, 03:58 PM
There's an in-game explanation for this. Desmond has to synchronise with his ancestor's or he'll just reject the memory and they will be unable to continue. He has to relive "useless" memories to build up his synchronisation. Remember at the start of AC1 when they try to access the final memory and Desmond rejects it?

XxSYD3WINDERxX
07-20-2012, 04:01 PM
Right, so Desmond just has to spend some time reliving their lives before he can get to the important bits? But why are these important bits inaccessible at first, if they can access other meories without synching fully just fine?

kudos17
07-20-2012, 04:02 PM
In the case of Altair, Desmond had to be moved back to a point where synchronization with Altair wasn't a problem.

With Ezio in AC2, one of the goals was to let Desmond learn as Ezio learned, to retrain himself as an Assassin. That's why they started from his birth.

In AC:B, it was the same problem as Altair. Ezio was going through too many intensive events during the course of Brotherhood, which was troubling the synchronization.

In AC:R, we all know they problem there :p

ProletariatPleb
07-20-2012, 04:02 PM
Right, so Desmond just has to spend some time reliving their lives before he can get to the important bits? But why are these important bits inaccessible at first, if they can access other meories without synching fully just fine?
Game.
It's just that he is more..'comfortable' with those, that's just how it is, that's how you set a standard, a lore.

pacmanate
07-20-2012, 04:26 PM
Skip the sex scene?! UMAD?

SaintPerkele
07-20-2012, 06:26 PM
In the case of Altair, Desmond had to be moved back to a point where synchronization with Altair wasn't a problem.

With Ezio in AC2, one of the goals was to let Desmond learn as Ezio learned, to retrain himself as an Assassin. That's why they started from his birth.

In AC:B, it was the same problem as Altair. Ezio was going through too many intensive events during the course of Brotherhood, which was troubling the synchronization.

In AC:R, we all know they problem there :p
This post sums it up quite nicely. Just one addition: Besides the training purpose through the bleeding effect in AC2, the Assassins were not specifically looking for the Minerva memory. In fact, they did most likely not even know about its existance considering how surprised they were about it. They just picked the memories of Ezio, as Subject 16 was spending quite a lot of time with them too, indicating that Ezio's memories were rather important. Also, they had certain assumptions about the Gylphs hidden by S16 in the Animus version of Renaissance Italy.
Long story short: AC2's purpose was to live through Ezio's life in order to use the bleeding effect for Desmond and to find out what S16 apparently wanted the Assassins to find out. And, with Adam, Eve and Minerva, they discovered more than they were hoping for.

Assassin_M
07-20-2012, 06:33 PM
Each reason is explained in each game. You just weren't paying attention.

SixKeys
07-20-2012, 07:00 PM
Right, so Desmond just has to spend some time reliving their lives before he can get to the important bits? But why are these important bits inaccessible at first, if they can access other meories without synching fully just fine?

It's just like in gaming, it's easier to start with the simpler memories before moving on to the ones that require more effort. If you started a new game and the first level was the final boss, you'd probably be pretty lost. They need to ease you into it, so you start with stuff that's easier to synch with. Some of the stuff may seem useless, but it's all a part of teaching Desmond the necessary skills and knowledge of his ancestors so he can fully synch with them.

VivoEstSomnio
07-20-2012, 07:11 PM
In the case of Altair, Desmond had to be moved back to a point where synchronization with Altair wasn't a problem.

With Ezio in AC2, one of the goals was to let Desmond learn as Ezio learned, to retrain himself as an Assassin. That's why they started from his birth.

In AC:B, it was the same problem as Altair. Ezio was going through too many intensive events during the course of Brotherhood, which was troubling the synchronization.

In AC:R, we all know they problem there :p

^ This.

But honestly, I'm glad they fleshed out the character of Ezio a lot more. The events that we saw him go through, even if you feel they were trivial, were important. I imagine many people would've have given a fig about Ezio, or Altair for that matter, had we not been given those bits in the game. Ezio went through some serious heartache with his brothers and father, the attack on Monteriggioni and his Uncle, Cristina, and more. I don't know about you, but if I suffered all of that loss and they all had a common link (hello Templars), that is some serious motivation right there. He had to avenge his family and get that PoE.

Also keep in mind that Ezio is Italian and family honor, especially back in that time period, was huge.

twenty_glyphs
07-20-2012, 08:01 PM
This post sums it up quite nicely. Just one addition: Besides the training purpose through the bleeding effect in AC2, the Assassins were not specifically looking for the Minerva memory. In fact, they did most likely not even know about its existance considering how surprised they were about it. They just picked the memories of Ezio, as Subject 16 was spending quite a lot of time with them too, indicating that Ezio's memories were rather important. Also, they had certain assumptions about the Gylphs hidden by S16 in the Animus version of Renaissance Italy.
Long story short: AC2's purpose was to live through Ezio's life in order to use the bleeding effect for Desmond and to find out what S16 apparently wanted the Assassins to find out. And, with Adam, Eve and Minerva, they discovered more than they were hoping for.

You're mostly right, but Lucy herself told Desmond that she was specifically targeting Ezio because of the Vault that Vidic had been interested in. It's during the warehouse scene where Desmond tests out his new climbing abilities. She may have used the training reason as an excuse to not make Shaun and Rebecca suspicious. Neither her or Vidic may have been aware of what happened inside the Vault, but they were definitely targeting that memory.

The Lost Archive specifically mentioned that Lucy's job was to get the Apple and bring it back to Abstergo, presumably the one that Ezio had. Vidic may have been aware that Ezio used that Apple to open the Vault, and that it had disappeared from the historical record after Ezio had it. Perhaps they even knew there was something special about it, maybe coming to their conclusion because they knew it had been inside the Vault. By the beginning of Brotherhood, Lucy certainly suspected that Minerva had altered the Apple when she "touched" it, and it then became the perfect excuse to keep the Assassins looking for the memory of hiding it as well. It really makes you wonder about that Apple and Minerva, Juno and Jupiter's plan for it. Kind of cool how Minerva altered it, maybe placing some program inside, then Juno's Temple stored it and used it to have Desmond eliminate Lucy, and then possibly Jupiter's meeting with Desmond unlocked some link with the Apple that was the final piece of that part of their plan.

Here's the warehouse conversation from AC2:

Desmond: All right, you've gotta tell me. Why Ezio? Why Italy? I mean, we could've just gone back to Alta´r again. Follow him during his early years.
Lucy: It started with Sixteen...
Desmond: Ah, good old Subject 16. He repainted my room, y'know... with his blood!
Lucy: I've been going through his files. Vidic flagged a couple of his Animus sessions. A bunch of different ancestors, different dates and locations... ancient Africa, the Middle East... but towards the end, he became obsessed with Italy. I think he knew about the Vault. A few of the records of his later Animus sessions are missing, and the sessions that are there... After everything the Templars put him through... after everything I put him through... it's all scrambled. If we hadn't pushed Sixteen so hard, we'd have all the answers already... and maybe he'd still be alive.
Desmond: So you're after the Codex and the Vault?
Lucy: I knew you had an ancestor in Italy who was at the center of all this.

LoyalACFan
07-20-2012, 08:43 PM
You're mostly right, but Lucy herself told Desmond that she was specifically targeting Ezio because of the Vault that Vidic had been interested in. It's during the warehouse scene where Desmond tests out his new climbing abilities. She may have used the training reason as an excuse to not make Shaun and Rebecca suspicious. Neither her or Vidic may have been aware of what happened inside the Vault, but they were definitely targeting that memory.

The Lost Archive specifically mentioned that Lucy's job was to get the Apple and bring it back to Abstergo, presumably the one that Ezio had. Vidic may have been aware that Ezio used that Apple to open the Vault, and that it had disappeared from the historical record after Ezio had it. Perhaps they even knew there was something special about it, maybe coming to their conclusion because they knew it had been inside the Vault. By the beginning of Brotherhood, Lucy certainly suspected that Minerva had altered the Apple when she "touched" it, and it then became the perfect excuse to keep the Assassins looking for the memory of hiding it as well. It really makes you wonder about that Apple and Minerva, Juno and Jupiter's plan for it. Kind of cool how Minerva altered it, maybe placing some program inside, then Juno's Temple stored it and used it to have Desmond eliminate Lucy, and then possibly Jupiter's meeting with Desmond unlocked some link with the Apple that was the final piece of that part of their plan.

Here's the warehouse conversation from AC2:

Desmond: All right, you've gotta tell me. Why Ezio? Why Italy? I mean, we could've just gone back to Alta´r again. Follow him during his early years.
Lucy: It started with Sixteen...
Desmond: Ah, good old Subject 16. He repainted my room, y'know... with his blood!
Lucy: I've been going through his files. Vidic flagged a couple of his Animus sessions. A bunch of different ancestors, different dates and locations... ancient Africa, the Middle East... but towards the end, he became obsessed with Italy. I think he knew about the Vault. A few of the records of his later Animus sessions are missing, and the sessions that are there... After everything the Templars put him through... after everything I put him through... it's all scrambled. If we hadn't pushed Sixteen so hard, we'd have all the answers already... and maybe he'd still be alive.
Desmond: So you're after the Codex and the Vault?
Lucy: I knew you had an ancestor in Italy who was at the center of all this.

They had no idea where the Vault was, though. They were just pretty sure that Ezio had found it at some point during his life. If they knew exactly where it was and exactly when Ezio got into it, they could have just gone there.

twenty_glyphs
07-20-2012, 09:56 PM
They had no idea where the Vault was, though. They were just pretty sure that Ezio had found it at some point during his life. If they knew exactly where it was and exactly when Ezio got into it, they could have just gone there.

Do you mean they didn't know the location of the Vault or the location of the genetic memory? They likely knew where the Vault was physically located. If Rodrigo Borgia and the Templars knew in the 1400s, that knowledge was probably passed on to Abstergo at some point. But as we saw in Brotherhood, the Vault was sealed up behind TWCB technology, and it likely would have been impossible for anyone to enter it ever again. Even if they did, it would probably be useless because Minerva's message was only meant for Ezio. If you're talking about the genetic memory, then surely they knew or could guess that Ezio didn't enter the Vault until later in his life when he became more involved with the Assassins. They could have just started at a later point, instead of before he was even an Assassin.

Either way, it's just a minor detail. Each game has given enough reason for why Desmond needs to relive large amounts of memories at a time instead of just the important target memory. Brotherhood's reason, with Ezio's troubled state and the memories within memories that was creating (according to the podcast with Jeffrey Yohalem), was probably the least explained reason, but it still existed. It's obvious that without needing to relive large blocks of memories, the games would be too short, so I just accept whatever reason they give without questioning too much. Though I am really curious for the reason AC3 will give.

SaintPerkele
07-21-2012, 12:09 PM
Desmond: All right, you've gotta tell me. Why Ezio? Why Italy? I mean, we could've just gone back to Alta´r again. Follow him during his early years.
Lucy: It started with Sixteen...
Desmond: Ah, good old Subject 16. He repainted my room, y'know... with his blood!
Lucy: I've been going through his files. Vidic flagged a couple of his Animus sessions. A bunch of different ancestors, different dates and locations... ancient Africa, the Middle East... but towards the end, he became obsessed with Italy. I think he knew about the Vault. A few of the records of his later Animus sessions are missing, and the sessions that are there... After everything the Templars put him through... after everything I put him through... it's all scrambled. If we hadn't pushed Sixteen so hard, we'd have all the answers already... and maybe he'd still be alive.
Desmond: So you're after the Codex and the Vault?
Lucy: I knew you had an ancestor in Italy who was at the center of all this.
Thanks for that! Something I never noticed before.. Ancient Africa. This is most likely the TCWB time period, isn't it? With the Kilimanjaro in the background of the Truth video it's pretty much confirmed that Humans indeed 'originated' from Africa, where the Human Revolution probably started. That means S16 spend quite a lot of time with these memories, the Truth video was just a small glimpse. Sorry for the OT.

GLHS
07-21-2012, 12:37 PM
I guess I don't understand why it's so confusing or such a big deal. Not everybody can synch properly to begin with, and the one's that do (Desmond), need to have a stable enough connection to keep it going. That's exactly why Clay only saw so much of Ezio's life. He didn't have enough synch with him. That's one of the reasons the Animus chooses his birth to start at. But yeah, it's explained in each game. With Altair, it was rejecting them access until Desmond had more synch with him, and the most stable memory is the one they started with, and then they work up from there. With Ezio in AC2, his birth was not only the most stable, but the best place to start since Desmond could learn along with Ezio. In AC:B, Ezio was repressing so many memories that Desmond couldn't access the target memory (in this case, where he hid the Apple), so Desmond had to go through and repair, not only Ezio's mindstate, but the state of the genealogy to ring out all the kinks that was preventing him from full synch with Ezio. And with AC:R it was b/c he had to find the nexus between him, Altair, and Ezio, by living out the memories until Ezio had nothing left to show him, and in the process, restoring his mind and sense of self.

XxSYD3WINDERxX
07-21-2012, 12:46 PM
I guess I don't understand why it's so confusing or such a big deal. Not everybody can synch properly to begin with, and the one's that do (Desmond), need to have a stable enough connection to keep it going. That's exactly why Clay only saw so much of Ezio's life. He didn't have enough synch with him. That's one of the reasons the Animus chooses his birth to start at. But yeah, it's explained in each game. With Altair, it was rejecting them access until Desmond had more synch with him, and the most stable memory is the one they started with, and then they work up from there. With Ezio in AC2, his birth was not only the most stable, but the best place to start since Desmond could learn along with Ezio. In AC:B, Ezio was repressing so many memories that Desmond couldn't access the target memory (in this case, where he hid the Apple), so Desmond had to go through and repair, not only Ezio's mindstate, but the state of the genealogy to ring out all the kinks that was preventing him from full synch with Ezio. And with AC:R it was b/c he had to find the nexus between him, Altair, and Ezio, by living out the memories until Ezio had nothing left to show him, and in the process, restoring his mind and sense of self.

Why did Ezio repress those memories of AC:B? I can't remember what happened.

GLHS
07-21-2012, 12:57 PM
Repressed memories usually happen when something traumatic happens to a person and their only way to mentally deal with it is to basically forget about it. Just hide it away and force yourself to not every think about it b/c it's too painful to relive. For Ezio, he repressed burying his family, and basically his whole relationship with Christina and her eventual death. He loved her and she was there with him when he buried his family, but he couldn't risk having something happen to her b/c his life was too dangerous. But whenever he came back to town, he would see her. He found she was getting married and made her future husband vow to love and protect her. Then, seeing her again in Venice, she sort of told him that she'd never forgive him for leaving b/c she loved him, but they couldn't be together. Then, eventually, Savonarola brings the Apple to Florence and the Bonfire of the Vanities takes place. Templars chase her and her husband down, Ezio tries to fight them off, but he's too late and she dies in his arms, still protesting her love for him. By Desmond forcing Ezio to "relive", in a sense, these painful memories, it help repair his state of mind and accept what has happened to him and who he has become. He comes to grips with his anger and vengeance. That's why he seems so much wiser and in tune with his senses in AC:R.

dxsxhxcx
07-21-2012, 04:54 PM
By Desmond forcing Ezio to "relive", in a sense, these painful memories, it help repair his state of mind and accept what has happened to him and who he has become. He comes to grips with his anger and vengeance. That's why he seems so much wiser and in tune with his senses in AC:R.

if you're talking about Ezio in the highlighted text then I believe you're wrong, Desmond can't influence Ezio because we can't change the past while reliving the ancestors memories, Ezio at some point of his life during ACB remembered those repressed memories (and this has nothing to do with Desmond) but for them to become available for Desmond at the same time Ezio remembered them, we needed to complete some missions with 100% sync to achieve a higher synchronization level with the ancestor...

GLHS
07-22-2012, 12:21 PM
But either way it repaired the genetic link. Ezio reliving the memories restores his mindset and helps him accept everything. Through that, it also helps Desmond synch to him better. The conversation between Desmond and Rebecca about it explains what's happening to both of them. So it's kinda both. You're right, Desmond can't influence the past, but through reliving every part of Ezio's memories, including the repressed ones, it repairs the DNA sequence and in it's own way helps Ezio "remember" what actually happened at that time (i.e. when and where he hid the Apple.)

Desmond speaks with Rebecca about his psychological state, in connection with the corrupted sequence.

Desmond: That disrupted memory seems to be getting clearer.
Rebecca: It's amazing. The sequence is repairing itself, as if we're helping you work through psychological trauma.
Desmond: So I'm going to be more balanced person by the end of this?
Rebecca: Oh, I have no clue. But the idea's cool.
Shaun: Are you saying that because you feel guilty about frying his brain?
Rebecca: Shaun's on latrine duty!
Lucy: Deal.
Shaun: Ah, of course, you side with her. Communists.

Lonesoldier2012
07-22-2012, 01:35 PM
because it's a game? How would you like to pay $60 for a bunch of cutscenes for 10minutes?

AC is afterall a game, the main point was linking the process, not finding faults, you're taking it a bit too seriously.That's most games now though XD

ProletariatPleb
07-22-2012, 01:55 PM
That's most games now though XD
The only game I can remember like that was....Heavy Rain.

Lonesoldier2012
07-22-2012, 02:20 PM
because it's a game? How would you like to pay $60 for a bunch of cutscenes for 10minutes?

AC is afterall a game, the main point was linking the process, not finding faults, you're taking it a bit too seriously.


The only game I can remember like that was....Heavy Rain.

Splinter Cell Conviction.

ProletariatPleb
07-22-2012, 02:36 PM
Splinter Cell Conviction.
Splinter Cell Conviction was a BAD game, I have to say, it wasn't what Splinter Cell is, but it wasn't what I'm saying...it had gameplay.