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View Full Version : I am confused as hell.. The Romans.. are supposed to be Templars???



Mogrin007
07-13-2012, 06:18 AM
Just bought this game on the steam sale. I'm a bit of a Byzantinephile, so I know a little bit about medieval rome, and I just arrived at istanbul.

Ok so lets list the offenses of templars against rome.

The bought cyprus from england after they took it from rome.
They and other crusaders sacked the living hell out of constantinople after conquering it in 1204, followed by decades of bloody wars until the latin empire of rome was reconquered by the empire of nicea, which had the most legitimate claim.

Anyways my point is, nobody hated the latin crusaders more than the romans did. Yet when we start the game, there are a bunch of templars wearing roman armor with the imperial seal of the palaiologos dynasty on it?? (and flys the banner of

I know I may be nitpicking, but the sultan would have impaled anyone wearing the dynastic seal of anyone other than his own.
What isn't nitpicking is that portraying romans as templars is absolutely comical.
Moreover, though rome participated in crusades, they did so for conquest of territory, not souls, and abhorred the idea of "warrior monks", essentially what the templar were.

I don't like how romans are being portrays as the enemy already in this game. Betrayed during the 4th crusade and abandoned by the catholics in the 15th century wasn't bad enough, now we're pretending they were templar schemers. :confused: DERP!

Well, I will still play this game, and see where it takes us...

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 06:19 AM
-____-
All I really have to say, to be quite honest. The idea of the Templars in the game differ than real life.

masterfenix2009
07-13-2012, 07:14 AM
Ya. The Templars in the game are not warrior monks. Most of them are atheist dedicated to controlling mankind.

MasterSimaYi
07-13-2012, 08:33 AM
The Byzantine Templars shown in the game are Templars fighting under the Byzantine banner, but this in no way implies that the entire Byzantine Empire were Templars, which would also be silly. These Templars only show themselves as Byzantines so they can ignite the Greeks into rebellion against the Turks, and so they can easily unite everyone under a single banner. The reason why Sultan Bayezid II did not rise up in action against them, is because he was not aware of their continued existence and presence in the Ottoman Empire, as he had not been in Constantinople for years and was off waging war against Prince Selim.

In every historical empire there were both Assassins and Templars. Julius Caesar was influenced by the Templars, until he was killed by the Liberatores/Assassins, and Caligula was also a Templar puppet. There were Assassins and Templars everywhere, it's not that the in-game Templars opposed to Roman Empire for some reason.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 01:39 PM
The Byzantine Templars shown in the game are Templars fighting under the Byzantine banner, but this in no way implies that the entire Byzantine Empire were Templars, which would also be silly. These Templars only show themselves as Byzantines so they can ignite the Greeks into rebellion against the Turks, and so they can easily unite everyone under a single banner. The reason why Sultan Bayezid II did not rise up in action against them, is because he was not aware of their continued existence and presence in the Ottoman Empire, as he had not been in Constantinople for years and was off waging war against Prince Selim.

In every historical empire there were both Assassins and Templars. Julius Caesar was influenced by the Templars, until he was killed by the Liberatores/Assassins, and Caligula was also a Templar puppet. There were Assassins and Templars everywhere, it's not that the in-game Templars opposed to Roman Empire for some reason.

And also, to point out, the Templars are not like the real life ones. They are far different.

MasterSimaYi
07-13-2012, 01:49 PM
And also, to point out, the Templars are not like the real life ones. They are far different.

I'm quite sure that's not what he is referring too though.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 01:57 PM
I'm quite sure that's not what he is referring too though.

It kinda is, since this ties into the way they are shown in game rather than real life.

LightRey
07-13-2012, 02:05 PM
The Templars aren't affiliated with any other organization than themselves. They just like to use other organizations/people with power. Caesar wasn't a Templar, Brutus, who killed him (along with a bunch of other senators of course), was an Assassin, etc. Some Romans throughout history have been Templars, some Assassins, most neither.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 02:08 PM
Basically, both existed in all times, everywhere, all time periods and eras.

Assassin_M
07-13-2012, 02:09 PM
Basically, both existed in all times, everywhere, all time periods and eras.
To add, as Templars and Assassins and nothing more.

They were affiliated ONLY with Assassins and Templars.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 02:11 PM
They may mask themselves with other affiliations, but it is all illusions.

MasterSimaYi
07-13-2012, 02:14 PM
The Templars aren't affiliated with any other organization than themselves. They just like to use other organizations/people with power. Caesar wasn't a Templar, Brutus, who killed him (along with a bunch of other senators of course), was an Assassin, etc. Some Romans throughout history have been Templars, some Assassins, most neither.

Caesar was not a Templar, but as said in the Encyclopedia, he was undoubtedly influenced by them while not necessarily aware of their existence. Which is what I said.

MasterSimaYi
07-13-2012, 02:18 PM
Let me translate that: He was influenced by them, they were playing him around, yet he was un-aware of it, and did not know of their existence.

...

Seriously?

LightRey
07-13-2012, 02:19 PM
Caesar was not a Templar, but as said in the Encyclopedia, he was undoubtedly influenced by them while not necessarily aware of their existence. Which is what I said.
Yep. He was influenced by Cleopatra, who most likely was a Templar (I don't think it has ever been confirmed). At the very least she was an important Assassin target.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 02:19 PM
...

Seriously?

Nah, just playing with ya :p deleted it.
If I am wrong, please correct me, but also the dis-appearance/death of many inventors, figures, and so on generally involved the Templars.

MasterSimaYi
07-13-2012, 02:25 PM
Yep. He was influenced by Cleopatra, who most likely was a Templar (I don't think it has ever been confirmed). At the very least she was an important Assassin target.

Cleopatra was also a Templar puppet. They "were there" when Cleopatra ascended the throne. That wasn't said in the Encyclopedia though, but in the Abstergo Files in the multiplayer of Revelations. Don't really know why they didn't put that in the Encyclopedia as well...

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 02:26 PM
Was Cleopatra not killed by one of the Assassin's in the tomb? I may be wrong tho.

MasterSimaYi
07-13-2012, 02:26 PM
Was Cleopatra not killed by one of the Assassin's in the tomb? I may be wrong tho.

Yes, with an asp by Amunet.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 02:31 PM
I find the way the games put Assassin's and Templars into historical events interesting, mostly because they really make it all fall in place.

LightRey
07-13-2012, 02:48 PM
Cleopatra was also a Templar puppet. They "were there" when Cleopatra ascended the throne. That wasn't said in the Encyclopedia though, but in the Abstergo Files in the multiplayer of Revelations. Don't really know why they didn't put that in the Encyclopedia as well...
Oh yeah you're right. Forgot about that. Anyway, y'know, stuff 'n things.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 02:49 PM
Oh yeah you're right. Forgot about that. Anyway, y'know, stuff 'n things.

....What does stuff'n things mean?

Assassin_M
07-13-2012, 02:56 PM
All in all..

When you view the Assassins and Templars, you don't view their nationalities, religions ..etc, their only allegiance is to each`s Order..

/thread

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-13-2012, 02:57 PM
And all of those things you mentioned, are just masking their allegiance.

Assassin_M
07-13-2012, 03:06 PM
And all of those things you mentioned, are just masking their allegiance.
Exactly..

Mogrin007
07-13-2012, 05:37 PM
Ok so the templars in this game aren't really the Knights Templar, but a secret organization that used the knights templar, and the name stuck?

Cause that order didn't form until way WAY after ancient hellenic roman times, and if cleopatra was influenced by "templars" then I guess it must be something like the "Artist formerly known as Prince", they must have been a nameless secret entity back before the formation of the order of the temple, but when they finally got a name associated with them, the knights templar, or templar, is what stuck.

Is this correct? Though still it doesn't explain how they got the support of so many romans after the 4th crusade, where if you were to ask a common roman to fight for the order of the templars you'd probably get stabbed in the throat before finishing your question.
I suppose this is quite a few generations afterwards.. but still its a far stretch.

And I'm not sure I fully understand who the templars are. Their knights wear the templar's cross which is the same holy order that owned cyprus, sacked constantinople, and murdered non-christians the world over, but the real templars weren't really knights templar, they were just using the knights templar and came to be known as templar?

alientraveller
07-13-2012, 05:51 PM
Straight from the horse's mouth, in ACR's unlockable multiplayer files:

"Officially, the Order of the Knights Templar was created in 1129, but we have endured, under various appellations, since well before the 12th century. We were there when Cleopatra (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Cleopatra) claimed her birthright, when Alexander the Great (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Alexander_the_Great) forged his empire, and when Xerxes (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Xerxes_I_of_Persia) sent his armies to crush the Greeks (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Greece).
Over the centuries, many illustrious individuals have led our Order, but our most remarkable leaders have always been men of science, such as Sylvester II (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Sylvester_II). Unfortunately, many men were often mistreated and, in Europe at least, branded heretics because of the knowledge they possessed."

MasterSimaYi
07-13-2012, 06:01 PM
Ok so the templars in this game aren't really the Knights Templar, but a secret organization that used the knights templar, and the name stuck?

Cause that order didn't form until way WAY after ancient hellenic roman times, and if cleopatra was influenced by "templars" then I guess it must be something like the "Artist formerly known as Prince", they must have been a nameless secret entity back before the formation of the order of the temple, but when they finally got a name associated with them, the knights templar, or templar, is what stuck.

Is this correct? Though still it doesn't explain how they got the support of so many romans after the 4th crusade, where if you were to ask a common roman to fight for the order of the templars you'd probably get stabbed in the throat before finishing your question.
I suppose this is quite a few generations afterwards.. but still its a far stretch.

And I'm not sure I fully understand who the templars are. Their knights wear the templar's cross which is the same holy order that owned cyprus, sacked constantinople, and murdered non-christians the world over, but the real templars weren't really knights templar, they were just using the knights templar and came to be known as templar?

In AC lore both the Assassin and Templars are centuries-old Orders that shaped the course of history since at least the 5th century BCE. In 1129 they were founded as a public knightly order known as the Knights Templar, and around that time the Assassins (Hashashin) also got a public face in the Levant. The Templars want peace through control over mankind as they believe that humanity is not capable of achieving this by themselves, while the Assassins are the contrary as they want humanity to have free will and believe they are capable of achieving peace by themselves.

Also the Byzantine Templars you see in ACR are not Romans, but Templars fighting under the Eastern Roman banner. They weren't Eastern Romans fighting for the Templars, they were actual Templars. Both the Assassins and Templars are spread around the globe, but all of their different branches belong to the same family.

LightRey
07-13-2012, 08:41 PM
Ok so the templars in this game aren't really the Knights Templar, but a secret organization that used the knights templar, and the name stuck?

Cause that order didn't form until way WAY after ancient hellenic roman times, and if cleopatra was influenced by "templars" then I guess it must be something like the "Artist formerly known as Prince", they must have been a nameless secret entity back before the formation of the order of the temple, but when they finally got a name associated with them, the knights templar, or templar, is what stuck.

Is this correct? Though still it doesn't explain how they got the support of so many romans after the 4th crusade, where if you were to ask a common roman to fight for the order of the templars you'd probably get stabbed in the throat before finishing your question.
I suppose this is quite a few generations afterwards.. but still its a far stretch.

And I'm not sure I fully understand who the templars are. Their knights wear the templar's cross which is the same holy order that owned cyprus, sacked constantinople, and murdered non-christians the world over, but the real templars weren't really knights templar, they were just using the knights templar and came to be known as templar?
The original orders are way older than their public faces in the middle ages. They go back millennia.