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View Full Version : closure & downfall of desmonds story



infamous_ezio
07-11-2012, 04:50 PM
Here I am, bored as hell on uni break passing AC2 again. Trying to 100% sync it, doing all the glyphs... again... and i realized something. The glyphs are so mysterious, i was paying close attention to each individual one and the thrills you get from solving them and listening to clay talk, some of the dialogue is really... creepy, which is what makes it that much better knowing that this guy is slowly going crazy. for example, glyph 20 gets me every time, it's really sad how we know the fate of 16, and i guess we kind of get that feeling in TLA but i feel like it could have been done alot better (yeah i know people will be like their wasn't enough time blah blah blah, they could have worked harder if they wanted to). I feel like i had a much bigger connection with clay's character in AC2 and ACB, it was much more dramatic if you guys get what i mean. Now, come revelations, i was pumped for this game, not because of the whole ezio part, (well kinda) but mostly because i knew we were going to get some serious revelations in the modern day time. But unfortunately that was disappointing, but what was worse was that we had no closure on 16, instead we had this weird guy who addressed half of the problems. I imagined ACR to be a bit more like this:
Desmond:"dafuq did you mean when i put you back together"
Clay:"well desmond.........."
Desmond:"ohk, makes sense... why did they make me kill lucy?!?!?!"
Clay:"good questions! take a seat... back in my day.....yeah lucy is a traitor"

I expected good decent explanations, but nah, apparently he's dead now so i dunno what to think... My issue is that, i don't feel we had enough closure on 16 as a character, in AC1 to ACB we knew him as this mystery dude, who perhaps would be the key to desmond's understanding in his efforts to potentially save the world.. I was hoping we'd get this absolute cooked out guy, who, even though was out of his mind, answered his questions and made it as dramatic as the glyphs were.

In the glyph i did today. clay sais "i have to stay here until you understand". I gather from this that clay: is staying alive until all glyphs are completed (he would ultimately kill himself as told in glyph 20 "she sees me raise the knife), OR waiting for desmond to arrive in the coma. E.g in the ACB truth clay sais "find me .. in the darkness"... darkness = black room = animus island, makes sense. Now, i think this is going to have big implications on the consistent flow of the modern time story line. They've said we're going to have big things happen in Desmond's time, but revelations was so hyped up, i don't know what to expect. I wish they paid more attention to Desmond's time seeing AS IT'S HIS LAST GAME....

that's about it..

RANT OVER, infamous_ezio out!

Assassin_M
07-11-2012, 04:55 PM
Yeah, hello, best friend:D

So now what does this have anything to do with Desmond`s closure and downfall ?

imonthenet
07-11-2012, 05:08 PM
Yeah the title is a tad unrelated, but regarding the post I can see where you're coming from.

Desmond and the modern day story are an important piece in the puzzle that we all love (and occasionally hate) that is Assassin's Creed, and I really thought that Ubisoft was going to showcase that in Revelations. However the whole game seemed to miss the mark. Perhaps 'twas the combination of a new creative director and a small production of time frame, or the fact we never actually get out of the animus, but whatever you want to blame Desmond's story kinda just flunked in ACR.

Personally I have faith in Ubisoft to give Desmond and his tale a satisfying conclusion in ACII. And no matter if the ending is bad I won't complain about 'till they make a new one ;)

Norcent31
07-11-2012, 05:08 PM
For Assassin's Creed 3, we will have "More of Desmond than Ever",

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/122/1222276p1.html

infamous_ezio
07-11-2012, 05:08 PM
No you're my best friend, best friend

Downfall is probably a little over dramatic term, but i do believe that subject 16's story is related to desmond's story. Lucy's betrayal, this so called 'eve' and that. I just don't think it would make for a very good conclusion if, they don't address lucy's death, or anything of what 16 was saying. I know it's too early to really say anything but it seems like things are going that way. If i were desmond i would have used my time to ask 16 absolutely everything. So where i'm really trying to get at is this. If we finish AC3 without acknowledging what clay has said in previous games, such as the ACB truth, then i truly believe that the game will suffer from serious plot holes. It just seemed from AC1 to ACB and even in revelations in TLA (which was suppose to be in the original game) that clay was suppose to be a big part in desmond's journey, but because he's apparently deleted by the animus, i'm sitting here with a strange grin on my face thinking ..... "Dafuq, he's said on numerous occasions that he needs to help desmond"... somethings a bit fishy don't ya think -.-

infamous_ezio
07-11-2012, 05:10 PM
Yeah the title is a tad unrelated, but regarding the post I can see where you're coming from.

Desmond and the modern day story are an important piece in the puzzle that we all love (and occasionally hate) that is Assassin's Creed, and I really thought that Ubisoft was going to showcase that in Revelations. However the whole game seemed to miss the mark. Perhaps 'twas the combination of a new creative director and a small production of time frame, or the fact we never actually get out of the animus, but whatever you want to blame Desmond's story kinda just flunked in ACR.

Personally I have faith in Ubisoft to give Desmond and his tale a satisfying conclusion in ACII. And no matter if the ending is bad I won't complain about 'till they make a new one ;)

haha yeah, sorry about that. Yeah that's what i think, ACR in terms of modern day story telling, sucked. I don't get why they didn't add TLA to the orginal game... it makes absolutely no sense whats so ever.

Assassin_M
07-11-2012, 05:10 PM
No you're my best friend, best friend

Downfall is probably a little over dramatic term, but i do believe that subject 16's story is related to desmond's story. Lucy's betrayal, this so called 'eve' and that. I just don't think it would make for a very good conclusion if, they don't address lucy's death, or anything of what 16 was saying. I know it's too early to really say anything but it seems like things are going that way. If i were desmond i would have used my time to ask 16 absolutely everything. So where i'm really trying to get at is this. If we finish AC3 without acknowledging what clay has said in previous games, such as the ACB truth, then i truly believe that the game will suffer from serious plot holes. It just seemed from AC1 to ACB and even in revelations in TLA (which was suppose to be in the original game) that clay was suppose to be a big part in desmond's journey, but because he's apparently deleted by the animus, i'm sitting here with a strange grin on my face thinking ..... "Dafuq, he's said on numerous occasions that he needs to help desmond"... somethings a bit fishy don't ya think -.-
The brotherhood message of Clay will be addressed in AC III, courtesy of Jeffery Yohalem in a Podcast..

So don't worry;)

TheHumanTowel
07-11-2012, 05:13 PM
I was pretty disappointed with 16 in ACR and TLA. AC2-ACB 16 was such a mysterious and tragic character. This was greatly helped by a great performance by Cam Clarke. He really captured 16's descent into madness and made him such a sympathetic character. Then ACR happened and all of a sudden 16 is a snarky a**hole. This coupled with the needless change in voice actor made him seem like a completely different person.

Also if you ask me we were given far too much answers about 16. The thing about mysterious characters is that they're a lot less interesting once you take away all their mystery. Little touches like never seeing what 16 looked like or knowing his real name added to his mystique and appeal in past games. Then we were just given every detail about his life in TLA and as you can expect it was pretty disappointing.

ShaneO7K
07-11-2012, 05:18 PM
The brotherhood message of Clay will be addressed in AC III, courtesy of Jeffery Yohalem in a Podcast..

So don't worry;)

Is that the "the sun, your son" one?

Assassin_M
07-11-2012, 05:19 PM
Is that the "the sun, your son" one?
Yup..

zerocooll21
07-11-2012, 05:20 PM
The brotherhood message of Clay will be addressed in AC III, courtesy of Jeffery Yohalem in a Podcast..

So don't worry;)

Good to know, thanks.

ShaneO7K
07-11-2012, 05:20 PM
Yup..

Should be interesting then.

infamous_ezio
07-11-2012, 06:00 PM
The brotherhood message of Clay will be addressed in AC III, courtesy of Jeffery Yohalem in a Podcast..

So don't worry;)

I heard the podcast and it wasn't, he just said "you're gonna have to wait and see" and "theirs alot their... its bigger then it seems" or something,

Felix-Vivo
07-11-2012, 06:11 PM
I am remaining optimist that we haven't seen the last of 16 yet...

twenty_glyphs
07-11-2012, 06:23 PM
I agree with just about everything that's been said in this thread. I think it was a mistake to have a mysterious, rambling, crazy character and then reveal so much about him. Subject 16 would have been more interesting if we only knew bits and pieces about him and hadn't seen what he looked like, what his name was, and found out minor details about his life. His story wasn't bad, but it took away a lot of the fun of the disembodied voice that we'd come to know. It was also so jarring to meet him as a bitter, sarcastic character who seemed to resent Desmond. He was much more interesting when he was barely holding onto his sanity and doing all he could just to help Desmond.

I would have preferred to see Subject 16 on Animus Island in the form he had when Desmond met him in Brotherhood, with the same voice actor and barely sane personality. Desmond should have been asking him questions like crazy, and receiving more cryptic answers that at least teased more of the mystery. Part of the gameplay on Animus Island could have involved finding Subject 16 to have conversations instead of him just showing up to chat when he felt like it.

I think Darby McDevitt said after Revelations came out that one of the original intentions of the Animus Island part of the story in Revelations was that Desmond had forgotten a lot of events in his life because his mind was shattered due to the Bleeding Effect. Due to the memory loss, Desmond wouldn't be rushing to ask Subject 16 what he was trying to tell him, and it would explain why Desmond suddenly remembered what happened to Lucy. But it just makes the fact that the first thing Desmond does while on Animus Island is call out to Rebecca confusing, indicating he clearly remembers his experiences with the Animus.

I get the feeling Desmond's story was supposed to be about him finding those Animus data fragments to unlock his memories for reliving as he sort of pieced his own personality back together as separate from Alta´r and Ezio. They just never did a good job of setting that part of the story up. Sure, Subject 16 sort of explained it to Desmond, but it felt weird because Desmond seems fine at the time. I also don't like that they never showed us evidence that the Bleeding Effect was doing so much damage to Desmond in Brotherhood. There were hints in the emails you could read that he was screaming in his sleep, but otherwise everything seems fine. Then Desmond gets the Apple and winds up in a coma after what Juno makes him do. We're all sitting here thinking that sent him into the coma, and then Subject 16 comes along and says the Bleeding Effect is why Desmond is in the coma.

They really need to do a good job of explaining what happened to Desmond in AC3. Even just a two minute conversation at the beginning where Rebecca, Shaun and William explain to Desmond that reliving so many genetic memories in such a short time made the Bleeding Effect damage his mind, and they all assumed that's why he stabbed Lucy. Then he could explain that he saw Juno and that's why he was hearing voices and seeing people at the end of Brotherhood.

I still think the real problem here is the story was designed to go a certain direction in AC3 by the time they were finished with AC2. They may have had a good idea about what would happen in Brotherhood at the end of AC2's production, which would explain why that game's story continues to reveal more layers of the mystery so well. But Revelations really came out of the blue, and they had to find a way to keep going deeper into the story without ruining the surprises they had in store for AC3's plot. They just failed to pull that off well, which was why Revelations had to ignore so many important plot points and have so little happen in the modern day setting.

Felix-Vivo
07-11-2012, 06:40 PM
I'm torn, because I loved the crazy 16 and solving all the puzzles and stuff, but I did like him in Revelations too, and especially the Lost Archive... it just felt jarring that 16's character has inspired so many questions throughout the series - and most of all I'd say with his message to Desmond in Brotherhood - and yet NONE of it. NOTHING was made of it in Revelations.

infamous_ezio
07-11-2012, 06:54 PM
I wish they kept his insane personality in ACR, it's so much better, gives off a more 'scary' vibe. I'm hoping they announce in the AC3, jeff seemed kind of confused when they asked him the pod cast. seemed like he had no idea haha.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-11-2012, 10:04 PM
He is dead people...
e.e

WolfTemplar94
07-11-2012, 10:18 PM
He is dead people...
e.e

Not necessarily. Who knows, he could have implanted himself into Desmond's mind.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-11-2012, 10:19 PM
Dont really think so, he was deleted in front of our eyes...

RatonhnhakeFan
07-11-2012, 10:27 PM
I just want the 2012 solar flare story to end. I'm getting tired of it. It's fun, but they've stretched it through 5 freaking games. No more. Tell us what's the deal with "your son", Eve/Eve DNA, "awaken the sixth", "from your head to your hands", how/with whom we need to go through some gate etc. Just get over with it already. Every game so far ended with a cliffhanger bigger than in the previous installment and more question arise than get answered.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-11-2012, 10:30 PM
I think that was the intention, too have so many answers in AC III.

Layytez
07-11-2012, 11:05 PM
I think that was the intention, too have so many answers in AC III.

There better be loads of answers otherwise ima flip.

itsamea-mario
07-11-2012, 11:07 PM
AC3 definitely needs more desmond than the other games.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-11-2012, 11:11 PM
There will be more Desmond, just have the hood on...

LightRey
07-12-2012, 12:06 AM
Not necessarily. Who knows, he could have implanted himself into Desmond's mind.
No, he couldn't. That has long been confirmed now. Keep up.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-12-2012, 05:15 AM
He was deleted infront of our eyes, how would he?

masterfenix2009
07-12-2012, 06:47 AM
People are saying Clay was sane in ACR? Umm... no. He was a lot better, but not what I would call sane.

HaSoOoN-MHD
07-12-2012, 08:21 AM
He still suffered problems, and there is no he would implant him after we saw him get deleted.

Layytez
07-12-2012, 01:25 PM
So Desmond is magically going to understand what 16 was talking about in AC2 and ACB ? That last part at the end for deletion could have been a way for ubisoft to explain how Desmond will reveal it to use and answer our questions ?

infamous_ezio
07-12-2012, 02:43 PM
Jeff didn't confirm that 16 is gone forever, and he never claimed that AC3 would reveal all that ACB truth stuff (although i highly believe it will). Really, it's open ended to speculation. From what we saw in ACR, clay was deleted from the animus, but who knows he could have imprinted himself onto desmond, i think jeff said that could be a possibility, i just don't think it made much sense to get rid of him without telling desmond everything their is to know.

Clay seemed more sane in ACR, but i think it would have been so much cooler if he was the way he appeared in other games.

LightRey
07-12-2012, 03:00 PM
People are saying Clay was sane in ACR? Umm... no. He was a lot better, but not what I would call sane.
He was never really sane to begin with. Even before the bleeding effect.

GLHS
07-12-2012, 03:06 PM
He confirmed that lingering questions from AC2 and AC:B regarding Clay will be answered in AC3. That there's still a lot there that they have to reveal. So in a way, he kinda did confirm that the truth stuff would be answered.

EDIT: Most geniuses aren't quite sane though, are they?

infamous_ezio
07-12-2012, 03:14 PM
He confirmed that lingering questions from AC2 and AC:B regarding Clay will be answered in AC3. That there's still a lot there that they have to reveal. So in a way, he kinda did confirm that the truth stuff would be answered.

EDIT: Most geniuses aren't quite sane though, are they?

He didn't confirm it he said "you will have to wait and see", & as for the question i asked regarding the ACB truth video he's only response which made no sense was "theirs alot of stuff their", loomer suggests "post AC3 stuff", jeff replies "no, just theirs alot of stuff" and then subject changes.