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Taipan65
08-08-2004, 11:00 PM
Hi
I know there has probably been numerous post asking about tactics so sorry for asking again.

I'm having some real problems dealing with a few planes that are regularly being used on the servers I play on.

I pretty much always fly 109's or 190's and I just can't seem to either match or shake the commonly used planes on the servers. Most people on the servers I play on use either Ki's, La's or those damn I-185's.

I would really appreciate it if someone could either advise me or point me the direction of a site that has info on how to deal with enemy planes like these while I'm flying a 109 or 190.

Secondly I have alot of trouble turning defence (plane on my butt) into attack. This is obviously a bad thing as it gets me killed often even if I am luck enough to shake them off once or twice. I still can't seem to get into an attacking position.

I really could do with the help and I don't want to switch to using Ki's La's ect ect but at thios stage it's hard to match them unless I have one aswell.

Anyway thanx for your time and any help would be great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Taipan65
08-08-2004, 11:00 PM
Hi
I know there has probably been numerous post asking about tactics so sorry for asking again.

I'm having some real problems dealing with a few planes that are regularly being used on the servers I play on.

I pretty much always fly 109's or 190's and I just can't seem to either match or shake the commonly used planes on the servers. Most people on the servers I play on use either Ki's, La's or those damn I-185's.

I would really appreciate it if someone could either advise me or point me the direction of a site that has info on how to deal with enemy planes like these while I'm flying a 109 or 190.

Secondly I have alot of trouble turning defence (plane on my butt) into attack. This is obviously a bad thing as it gets me killed often even if I am luck enough to shake them off once or twice. I still can't seem to get into an attacking position.

I really could do with the help and I don't want to switch to using Ki's La's ect ect but at thios stage it's hard to match them unless I have one aswell.

Anyway thanx for your time and any help would be great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Taipan65
08-09-2004, 12:45 AM
Bump

Come on guys someone must have some tips http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rab03
08-09-2004, 01:17 AM
You have some nice tracks here (study them)
http://www.dreyermachine.com/il2/
I saw one track from this site-online Bf doing BnZ on pony, while constantly remaining high speed.

General tactics here (useful, though written for Lavochkins)
http://www.il2flying.com/

See my skins at
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/JohnnyRab-SIG.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=Rab&ts=1069857387&comefrom=credits)

F19_Ob
08-09-2004, 01:45 AM
U can dive faster than I-185 and La7 they will brake up or lose parts. U have also better roll in high speeds and can change direction faster .
The ki84 I dont know...haven't flown it much yet.

Olli72 is going to hate me for saying this; Learn the flipflopping maneuver in the fw and keep on doing it for unrealistic periods of time.....your opponent will run out of ammo, get targetet by your allies or just give up because he dislike watching your show........If olli is your opponent he will give it up , and I will listen to him, swearing over TS. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Taipan65
08-09-2004, 04:05 AM
Great thanx guys I very much appreciate it, although I have no idea what flip floping is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rab03
08-09-2004, 04:11 AM
I may be wrong, but I assume it includes violent right-left rudder movements. I guess it's better if you combine it with stick movements.

Remember, your aim is to get away from enemy's gunsight, and to present him the most difficult target.

See my skins at
http://server6.uploadit.org/files/JohnnyRab-SIG.jpg (http://www.il2skins.com/?action=list&authoridfilter=Rab&ts=1069857387&comefrom=credits)

geetarman
08-09-2004, 08:13 AM
Not to be a smart-alec, but, everyone has problems with those planes! Don't feel too bad.

Much of the problem is the altitude you are probably operating at. Some of of the planes you are having trouble with operate best at low altitude and yours do not.

Either try to take them high, or, join another server.

F19_Olli72
08-09-2004, 08:34 AM
Dont listen to Ob, hes madder than Mad Jack MacMad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif Flip-flopping is not cool http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/51.gif Get a wingman instead.

http://img70.photobucket.com/albums/v40/Olli72/Forgotten%20Battles/screenshotart/SIG_G50.jpg (http://www.screenshotart.com)
My FB wallpapers (http://olli.eokonline.com/wallpaperpack.zip)

Flygflottilj16_Sulan
08-09-2004, 09:20 AM
I often mannaged looping out I-185´s with the 109G-2.

I have lots of trouble with spits when flying German though...

JG14_Josf
08-09-2004, 12:05 PM
Mike's Il2 guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/tracks.htm)

You can find much information on Mike's Il2 guide.

For tactics I linked the track page.

If you are interested in seeing a tactics training file then read Mike's instructions on loading training files.

German planes tend to be faster. For this reason they tend to be better suited for hit and run tactics.

Hit and run tactics are made much more effective with a teammate or wingman.

If the 109 does have a climbing advantage against the opponent then energy tactics are possible.

Here (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/downloads/tracks/Energy_game.zip) is a training track file that tries to show energy tactics. It includes a demonstration of the sustained turn technique.

Here (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/downloads/tracks/Teamwork.zip) is a training track file that tries to show team tactics. It includes a demonstration of the line abreast formation, tac turns, the drag, and general team communication.

If you insist upon dog fighting with a plane that only goes faster (turns, climbs, accelerates, and slows down the same or worse) then you will loose a whole lot of dog fights, certainly loose the ones where the other pilot is better or is sitting a lot closer to lady luck.

If you understand the limitations of your plane and avoid the advantages of the opponents plane they you will avoid getting shot down as much.

LilHorse
08-09-2004, 12:26 PM
Here's my advice (which I should follow myself more often). Don't stick around. Take the time, if you can, to climb nice and high- say 5 or 6 K. Then BnZ. Don't turn with guys flying these planes. That's what they want you to do. Also, I'd suggest you steer clear of any server that has a-historical plane sets. All planes type servers are just so much silly air-quake.

Friendly_flyer
08-09-2004, 12:37 PM
In general, the German planes are somewhat stiff on the controls. You can't out-turn planes like I-185. My advice is either to change side (the Russian planes are very nimble) or to follow Geetarmen and Lillhorses advices.

Don't try to base your tactics on turning in planes that doesn't turn well. Stay high, zoom in from far off, give the bugger at total surprise with the heavy guns (30 mm's are nice) and use your surplus speed to get out and up.

Fly friendly!

Petter B¸ckman
Norway

Taipan65
08-10-2004, 06:43 PM
Thanx for all the great info guys.

Just thought I would ask another question though.

Do you guys find that the I-185 is alittle to good at everything? I pulled one to 10,000 meters the other night and he still kept up with me. I was in a D-9 1945

Bikewer
08-10-2004, 07:24 PM
It is one of my big problems with the typical dogfight public-server; the "fly anything-fight anything syndrome."
Needless to say, there isn't much historical context for Luftwaffe planes going up against the Imperial Japanese Navy...

Mind, I used to have a lot of fun with these things, but I much prefer historical matchups.

That being said, the 109s are not particularly good at turn&burn dogfighting, and you'd do best against these highly manueverable aircraft by sticking to your basic boom & zoom tactics, and not getting drawn into a turnfight.

Fight your battle with tactics that play to your aircraft's strong points, not the other guys.

El Turo
08-10-2004, 07:26 PM
Just added a new article at www.il2flying.com (http://www.il2flying.com) today. May I humbly suggest reading up on the barrel roll section for your beginning evasive needs? Guns-defensive is also a good beginning point as well.

!S

Callsign "Turo" in IL2:FB & WWIIOL
______________________
This place
was once
a place
of worship
I thought,
reloading my rifle.

~V.

Taipan65
08-10-2004, 07:39 PM
I would appeare that when being chased by a Spit, I-185 or Ki that I'm not usinf the speed correctly.

like I said I fly a D-9 mostly and when I dive in on one of the above mentioned planes they seem to be able to real me in over a period of time.

I come in full throlte take my shot and pull up to exit. The trouble is the enemy plane ends up 800m -1km behind me and chasing. From that point I seem to lack either the room or alt to go back for another crack at him without giving him a shot first. If I climb they climb with me allowing me no room if I turn they close in and have a shot on me.

This is getting very frustrating

StellarRat
08-10-2004, 08:38 PM
Based on what your saying I think I know what the problem is: You're starting too low compared to your target. Before you B and Z you should be about 1.5 - 2K above them. You need to be going about 700 - 750 kph when you fire then go to full power (if you aren't already) and pull up to about 45 degrees climb for a bit then pull up to a full vertical climb. When you begin firing the enemy should take violent evasive action to dodge your attack and blow off a bunch of energy. By that time you should be climbing up for the next attack. Remember you don't want to turn much on last .5K of your attack run. If you find that you need to turn more than about 45 degrees to keep the enemy in your sights just pull back up and gain altitude and try again once you are 2K about them again.

Taipan65
08-10-2004, 11:07 PM
^^ Excellent thanx.

Yeah I believe I must exiting from the attack run incorrectly possibly pulling up to hard to early and scrubbing off alot of speed in the process?

Friendly_flyer
08-10-2004, 11:37 PM
Fighting the I-185 is tricky. It's a "wonderplane" (for it's time) that newer actually got into active service, due to the designers fallout with Stalin. It climbs well, has decent speed, it's very manoeuvrable and has 3 inline 20mm cannons. Try it out a bit in the QMB, and you'll se why it's a bugger to fight.

Fly friendly!

Petter B¸ckman
Norway

StellarRat
08-11-2004, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taipan65:
Yeah I believe I must exiting from the attack run incorrectly possibly pulling up to hard to early and scrubbing off alot of speed in the process?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That may well be your problem. Remember a gradual pull to vertical after the attack. You shouldn't start going black. The enemy should be left in the dust below you. You shouldn't have anyone catching up to you if you are going 700+ at the attack point. One more thing, if they dive away from you don't follow them for more than a couple seconds. This will cancel your speed advantage eventually then they might very well catch you on the way back up.

Taipan65
08-11-2004, 09:06 PM
Thanx again for the feedback it's been great.

I have been reading heaps of info from the sites linked here and have found it very enlightening. It will of course take me sometime to learn the different things and then apply them with any success but I guess I have to start somwhere. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Another thing I have noticed that I seem to have trouble with is keeping visual connect with an enemy. This seems to have the biggest effect on my chances of being shot down.

Any suggestions on maintaining a visual on the enemy ie hat switch, head tracker ect ect?

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2004, 10:53 PM
Practice, is all i can tell you. Using a hat switch [i]can[/b] be as natural as breathing, but not automatically. Kind of like riding a bike.

What you have to learn to do is to think ahead a bit with your viewing and divorce it from your maneuvering. You can practice this offline by flying over some object on teh ground, and doing rolls and loops and such and at the same time, keep it in view the entire time (unless the object passes under a wing or under the nose or belly of the plane). Learn to anticipate where things should be after you finish a maneuver.

If you can get TrackIR, I hear that's highly recommended. But then, you're still at the mercy of the software...and you have to wear the magic bindi on your head.

karost
08-12-2004, 09:36 AM
Hi,Taipan65
I believe you was meet alot of good friends try to help you right? they all are good pilot too.

you will read alot of infomation to learn and understand all tactics but one thing same as Stiglr said, that is "Pratice", no one can give this skill to you, you have to build it by your self.

every pilots have a standard shooting skill that's we call "deflection shooting"
my english is not good so I just make a screen tutor for deflection shooting, I hope this can help you.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=717109834&r=895100934#895100934

have a good hunt and good fun.

S!