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Unknownpony
07-07-2012, 11:46 AM
Well I played till level 9 now and one thing I saw it's this game is SOOOOo unbalance. I undetstand that it's beta test but seriusly....
Stronghold with engrange is TOO strong cus it can go infinity.... it should have max level (3 or 4). There should NEVER be something that add you attack and go in infinity.
And some moobs have engrange 2..... their atack go SKY HIGH in no time especially when stronghold have spell sacrifce....
Posion should have max level too though i never saw pison more then 3-4 anyway cus moob die
Everything that add stat or add dmg should have max level cus it will be too OP....it's such basic.....

So much unbalance.
Air and fire magic is superior to other magic. Compare fire with water
Fireblast - hit 2, water Ummmm no water spell for lv 1 magic (or i didn't saw)
Firewall - hit 4 in back or front line, water - hit 2 in abck or front line
Firebalt - hit 4 into + , Gazer - hit 3 into +
Aramagedon - hit 10 in everyone, I don't know name but - hit 8 in no falyer crature - and both spells cost 6 D:

I could compare others but I don't have time. maybe later today.
In short:
Magic unbalance cus air and fire >>>. otehr magic
Faction unbalance Stronghold(engrange that going infinity....) > inferno > rest

r3tsa
07-07-2012, 12:02 PM
So here goes first balance whine thread.

mortis3mortis
07-07-2012, 12:27 PM
I think water had spells for dmg ( tsunami and blizzard ) but water heave many spells that immobilize creatures etc

I think that only Haven hero with air and light magic has too many spell that deal dmg and good and cheap creatures.

gewloh
07-07-2012, 02:47 PM
I don't think that enrage is OP. You just need to adjust your strategy to not let the enemy enrage this creatures:P

Unknownpony
07-07-2012, 06:26 PM
r3tsa
It's not whining. It's just my thoughts. That what Beta do. Isn't it =P? Giving ideas what you think
I don't say. Nahhh....so bad. So OP. yada yada..
I give my reson and explenation why do i think it's OP
You can agree or disagree....
Don't start with your trolling "here goes whining" If you would be so kind.

gewloh
It is. Especially on magic shooter =)
If he have only Stronghold creture which 2 have engrage 2.
It's total of 6 engrange creature....and let say he have them all
How do you not let them engrange when it's normal monster for them and he can put 3 or 4 or 5 of them
Sometimes you can't kill them all and they will engrange and what. that eman auto lose if you ahve only moob cards to defence
Cus they will soon one shot them. you can only pray for spell cards.
You need have dmg spells cus all your moobs after just kill one of they creture give them 2 atack and 2 counter.
I fought few battles when guy was putting 2 mayas (those stronghold magic shooter) and he was protect them and move them around
and was sacrfic his weak moob. I manage to kill one of it but the other got like 10 atack.... no way to kill him with moobs
And he two shot hero....so something is definitly wrong cus it's not strategy but

Saint_Drako
07-07-2012, 08:14 PM
Actually I have to agree there is some balance isues. If someone knows how to use enrage properly it can go skyhigh like that. Enrage might not be OP on its own, but the lack of limits..let's just say that for a game that's already hard to balance since a lot of the victory chance is formed by sheer luck in obtaining and drawing cards such things are drawing the line too far
I'd also whine about haven getting too much goodies already with good troops, damage protection AND mass target damage spells as well as those sick inferno cards that can attack anywhere quite high, for relatively low cost, but then again - I didn't get any good cards myself yet so it'd be noobswhine :P

Unknownpony
07-07-2012, 09:58 PM
Saint_Drako

I think they should give change the beggining o the play. Player should be allow to choice 1 or 2 cards for starts
Cus now it's really depend on who got first good start moobs not strategy.
I personaly think 1 choose first card would be enough to make the beggining of game balance but it could be 2 as well that will make even more strategy

the stronghold is so OP.... now i thought with guy who got maya to engrange 8.....cus he was moving hima round and block by weak moobs....
2 paol (moob who quick attack and die) give 3 dmg and engrange to the trops.... the archer that can shoot whenever he want....cyclop who atack 8!!!! as shooter and without relations !!!! that's madness.... look at Celestial or Necro best moob.
Celestial 4,4,8 regen 3 but he got relation and can be put anywhere
Necro 4 +2 poison = 6,3,8 regen 1 but she can be only in front she got relation
Pit lord I think 4 ,3, 8 and he can atack whenevr he want but still relation and he can be put anywhere
and finally upgrade Cyclops double 4 !!! so 8,4,8 shoter no relation .... how do you kill him....when you are worry to kill others so they don't go sky high engrange...
Stronghold is cleary OP of course if you have all cards from it. Basic deck doesn't have those OP moobs but when someone have good stronghold deck you are dead unless he will get only spells card.

r3tsa
07-07-2012, 11:32 PM
Lemme ask you something, how many cards have you got in your deck, what is their average cost, what is your skill rating, and how many cards have you unlocked, on top of that important is also your experience in other card games. This is beta, game is young, possibilities are wide. I agree that stronghold decks are strong, but personally with my playstyle and deck I struggle most versus other type of decks, especially against spelldecks. However i don't like stating enything OP.

Unknownpony
07-08-2012, 11:18 AM
Well I havre like 75 card 40 monster. My ranking skill is around 350 now.
Was 480 in best but then i was meeting all the time stronhgold deck people =P So I drop
Well i have lv 10 so I bought already 3 packs for 10 so 360 crads + I buy hereos packs but didn't got hero for my faction =/
I play necro
I know it's beta that's why I point thing that in my opinion are kind OP cus if noone write anything on forum how should they know about our opinions?
I think the beggining of game is also kind too randome
They should give one card of choice at the beggining. And yeah I have 70 cards in which I have 15 monster that I could start at the begining (the chance is 15/70 which is 1/7 and at the start you have 7 cards so it's big probability i will have one of them to start but sometimes I don't) but someties I don't get them which is already losing position with storghold cus if they have more moobs at the begging with engrange you can't kill them fast enough unless you got lucky with spell but then you need go spell more then might and you can't put better moobs till late game. And they have spells too =P Well average cost will be 4-5 I guess

And other things is. Why when you surrender at the beggining of game you don't lose anything and gain anything? SO many games i got and the guy just give up cus i have start moob and he doesn't.

sacranin
07-08-2012, 12:14 PM
First of all:
Inferno's main strength is dealing superior damage, while they creatures are not so tough like in other factions.
Secondly:
Each school of magic bases on different principles. Fire school was always known for dealing high damage.

For me it's not that unbalanced. Main problem is when your opponent has mage hero. With good faction you can be truly unbeatable, but still strategy is a key to win.

Kamporxxx
07-08-2012, 12:38 PM
Inferno creatures arent tough? LOL and what about lilim, 8hp for only 4 points make her almost immortal and spammable...

Unknownpony
07-08-2012, 07:00 PM
Yeah lilith 8HP just for 4 and upgrade juggernot for 4 that got 6,4,4. And now if you don't kill him with spell nothing that you briing can tank it.
He kill everything that cost 4 expect upgrade ghost....

Beside it's not that much about strategy at the beggining.
You have card to play or you don't. I have 20 card that i can play at the begining in 75 deck and soemtimes I don't have them to start....
Really 1 or 2 card should be picked by player at the beggining. That would give kind of strategy cus now it's pure luck

sacranin
07-08-2012, 09:03 PM
Yeah lilith 8HP just for 4 and upgrade juggernot for 4 that got 6,4,4. And now if you don't kill him with spell nothing that you briing can tank it.
He kill everything that cost 4 expect upgrade ghost....


I haven't seen that card, so i can neither agree or disagree. My point was that infeno is based on pure destruction, heaven on enchants and strong defence (healing too ofc), stronghold on raw power, and necropolis on curses and reanimation, so each castle requires different approach.

Unknownpony
07-09-2012, 09:05 AM
I understand it but honestly.... juggernot cost 3 with 4,3,4 and ugrade juggernot cost 4 and hit 6,4,4.... it should hit 5 or cost 5 not 4.
And really..... engrange is without limit is so pain in the ***....especially whe he put 2 moobs with engrange 2.... ow come on....wywern ryder 3,0,6 engrange 2 and resist magic ~(half hit from magic) !!!! Are you kidding me =/ his atack go sky high so fast

glowackij
07-10-2012, 06:54 AM
In my opinion, 75 cards are just to many. If the game allows you to go with 50 cards minimum, you should have such a number of cards in your deck, just like in MtG (60 in this case). Did you see any MtG player, who had a deck of 75 cards (and, adjusting proportions that would be 85) and played at high level? I don't think so. So, 50-52 at most and every single card needs to be useful. If you have a card that you didn't use during a whole game (except extreme matches and situations), it means that you should substitute it or throw it away. It will be easier to fight enrage or any other deck if you cosnsistently realize your strategy and gameplay from the very beginning.

DjTechShadow
07-10-2012, 09:26 AM
When submitting a deck must also remember that we eliminated 6 cards: one hero, and 5 events.

mrBlaines
07-10-2012, 10:40 AM
3.
Inferno is all about attack, ok. Main problems are: too much HP for damage they are doing. Lilim with 8 hp can give too big advantage, same goes with jaggernauts 4 attack and 4 hp, no other creature has so much retaliation, attack and hp for this cost

true story bro.


btw. necro decks got 0 chance vs inferno decks. U got chance only if u are lucky to get cards like archliche, and that knight with lifesteal 3 or just some creaturekiller spells (iv got only this 2costkiller so we need some more!)

Unknownpony
07-10-2012, 12:18 PM
glowackij

I totally disagree.Becasue i had few situation when guy just end of card and I still got mine and he could do darn **** =P
beside all my cards are usefull but not all at the beggining of game and there are few gamebreaking cards that at the beggining give you too much adventage
like assasin.... 4.0.3 and cost 2 like really guy will start with assasin so you can only block with your creture and waste it or got your hero 4 dmg
then he will put something behind assasin and now you can block with hero again 4 or block with creture but it will die again cus now his line give 6 or 7 dmg.
So you get 8 dmg to your hero or waste 2 creture..... cus neitehr faireblast kill it or any spell on first lv (ok only necro spike can kill it) and simply lowering his HP to 2 would fix that problem.

mrBlaines
It depends if he have jugernot or upgrade juggernot or not =P cus those moobs hit too much for they HP and cost

Hydroopl

Yeah armagedon should be able to cast on 7 or 8 magic not 5.... or less dmg so late creture could alive like 6 dmg or 7.
Necro have counter spell for it =P it's one that give you all moobs from grave that die in enemy turn so you get back all your creture to hand and you just sent them again :3
I got few games liek that. Guy killed 7 of my creture with armagedon. no problem get abck to hand and just sent them again :D. First time in game i had 9 cards in hand =P at once
But well other rase are pretty much screw =P

1. Yeah swap atack are pain in the ***. They can kill your hero in no time but necro have spells that can deal with it. kill creture or making ilusion of cyclop.
I love that one cus he hit 8 and have 8 HP so you kill him with illusion of his moob =D. i got once such game and i give cyclop +3 perm atatck so anything he put in line i killed cus swap attack xD. buahaha. beside that cyclop is too OP. Shot with swap atack 4 so 4 x2,4,8 and no relation and he can be in behind.....like what were they thinking.
He should be only allow in front and his attack should be 7,4,8 or 3 x2,4,8 then it would be less OP

2. I don't see how aoe spells like agzer could be do too much dmg. You need 3 spell magic so at the beggining you won't use it cus you need monster and you go to might
if you go into magic at the beggining just make your monster wide open. gazer and fireball can be put only on moobs not on empt space so if you play like in chess he coould
only hit 1 moob with it
I agree about firebolt.... need just 1 magic and hit 2 so it the begigng it pain in the ***. it should be able to use with 2 magic

3. Agree.

glowackij
07-11-2012, 06:22 AM
glowackij

I totally disagree.Becasue i had few situation when guy just end of card and I still got mine and he could do darn **** =P
beside all my cards are usefull but not all at the beggining of game and there are few gamebreaking cards that at the beggining give you too much adventage
like assasin.... 4.0.3 and cost 2 like really guy will start with assasin so you can only block with your creture and waste it or got your hero 4 dmg
then he will put something behind assasin and now you can block with hero again 4 or block with creture but it will die again cus now his line give 6 or 7 dmg.
So you get 8 dmg to your hero or waste 2 creture..... cus neitehr faireblast kill it or any spell on first lv (ok only necro spike can kill it) and simply lowering his HP to 2 would fix that problem.

I am not sure, what you disagree with :) There can be a deck of 200 cards and every one of them useful, but only at proper time and situation. The idea of this game is to win as fast as possible (it is indicated by the offensive possibiliities of most of creatures), but notice that you move to end game very fast. I mean, if you have 6 action points (or what is it called), you can probably play every possible card in you deck right? So that's the end game phase in DoC and the tactical possibilites are endless, but depend mostly on luck, because at the moment there are not enough cards, allowing you to search you library through, draw extra card and so on. The bigger the deck the lesser the chance that you will draw exactly whst you want and if you follow too many philosophies, you'll have this situatiion, when you have 5-6 cards and don't want to play any of them. Assassin is just one card. I will happily sacrifice my creature or two to pump my enrage (I play Stronghold, so i even kill them myself to boost my enrage). I have damage spells (3 dmg to every creature), i have mobs with quick attack (Pao rox), i have powerful creatures with 6 or 7 in defence, 4 in attack, double attack, attack anywhere and so on plus Mr. Hero of Fury. What i am saying is statistics. If you have 75 cards you have much higher chance that you ll get the card you don't want to see at the moment. Compare to Magic the Gathering, seriously. In Magic you can have a deck of 200 cards, but minimum is 60 and people are amazed when you say that you deck consists of 62... And sure, I am aware that we need to find 6 slots for hero and events but Magic has Lands, which we don't need. Come on!

Muerte79
07-11-2012, 08:43 AM
Why 50, why not 75, 80, 94 or 39 ? You choose - 50 up to 200. Im player Mtg and i playing 60 cards, usually 61 but Mtg is totaly other. In Mtg you need lands, you must start with lands in hane, here not need, only you need cheap creatures at the start or spells buying a time. But, look on drafts or sealds decks, you need only 40-41 cards in deck. there is no need to compare both games.

Limbic_sinner
07-11-2012, 05:40 PM
You don't need to compare it to MTG. Its some basic TCG stuff you have to know. If you have less Cards in your deck, the Odds to drawing your good (or important) Cards are much higher. As long as you don't die because you have no Cards left in your deck all the time, there is no reason to fill up your deck with mediocre Card. Of course some people think "but all the cards in my deck are good, i need them all" - but thats what the Skill is about Deckbuilding - deciding what Cards are really good. They're never all equaly good.

People say "this is Op - that is OP" and then they Post they are playing with 75 Card deck. Really? You just need reasons why you loose. But the Reason is your Deck and surely not Enrage. Creature with Enrage have either low HP (easy to counter with a lot of cards) or are pretty expensive.

The most problematic thing i encountered till now are the Inferno creatures with high Attack (4/3/4 for 3 or 6/4/4 for 4) - because of 4 HP they're not so easy countered and most of the times you can't set any creatures infront of them, because they will kill most with just a single hit. You also can't effectively race them (kill your opponent faster) - because they hit you for so much HP.

Spell based Decks could be to strong as well. But not sure now, since i didn't play against many (most good spells are uncommon and rare)

glowackij
07-11-2012, 06:27 PM
You don't need to compare it to MTG. Its some basic TCG stuff you have to know. If you have less Cards in your deck, the Odds to drawing your good (or important) Cards are much higher. As long as you don't die because you have no Cards left in your deck all the time, there is no reason to fill up your deck with mediocre Card. Of course some people think "but all the cards in my deck are good, i need them all" - but thats what the Skill is about Deckbuilding - deciding what Cards are really good. They're never all equaly good.

People say "this is Op - that is OP" and then they Post they are playing with 75 Card deck. Really? You just need reasons why you loose. But the Reason is your Deck and surely not Enrage. Creature with Enrage have either low HP (easy to counter with a lot of cards) or are pretty expensive.

The most problematic thing i encountered till now are the Inferno creatures with high Attack (4/3/4 for 3 or 6/4/4 for 4) - because of 4 HP they're not so easy countered and most of the times you can't set any creatures infront of them, because they will kill most with just a single hit. You also can't effectively race them (kill your opponent faster) - because they hit you for so much HP.

Spell based Decks could be to strong as well. But not sure now, since i didn't play against many (most good spells are uncommon and rare)

This is the best possible answer to Muerte79 and I completely agree with this.
When it comes to Inferno, that was my first choice as a starting deck, tbh only because i thought it is going to be more like medium-old Mono R Aggro from MTG. A lot of cheap creatures with haste (quick attack) with strong attack and poor toughness, which go to graveyard after the first turn the are played + lots of instant burning spells (while instant means something very different in MTG than in DoC - here they are just sorceries, i hope it is gonna change later). As soon as possible I switched to Stronghold, which I believe to be the best deck atm. What UBI should do with Inferno imo, it to make the deck faster, create a really strong hero, who could combine Fire and Air schools or think of some better Fire spells (not like Immolation - one of the poorest perma spells in the game, and it is rare!) and that would be Inferno to me - Hell on Earth baby, fast deamons, incredible devils (do you guys remember devilish teleportation fom HoM&M?), don't let your opp even know what is going on around, burn, heat, aggression, serious combination of RB or GR from MTG - that's Inferno :)

glowackij
07-11-2012, 08:27 PM
Gz Limbic_sinner, I just had an opportunity to play against you, that was a fast game, unfortunately for me :) You have ruined my pretty nice row of 4 wins, but still, great deck, well composed and I am done, thx, hope we'll meet again :)

Elder_TdM
08-01-2012, 03:32 PM
You're all noobs whinning without a clue of the balance of the game and trying to obtain changes without knowing 20% of the cards and possible combos.

Start knowing the cards (http://momcards.no-ip.org/index.php?controller=cards) before saying a single additional word.

Then play 200 games and start talking then.

Magic is balanced (more or less) and it has been adjusted a lot of times.

Inferno creatures are so easy to kill. Compare them to the 3-4 resource creatures from haven or necro (that use to have regenerate or poison and nearly all fly), before saying another time they are strong.

nordentipwel
08-01-2012, 10:09 PM
Funny thing to add to mtkyebra post is that you all guys, complaining on what french people were complaining some times ago, because they were lvl 5-10 and thought they had seen the whole game.
They're a lot more stuff in this game. Inferno is easily manageable. There're so much cards that kicks *** more than a Lilim.

mrseev
08-01-2012, 11:49 PM
im much higher than lvl 5-10. Iv got all cards. Lilim hp is definitely too high. Now happy?

zenithale
08-02-2012, 02:50 PM
This is an OP combo : 8 level 6 creatures and 2 barren lands in 1 turn.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/zenithale/BloombergAgain_PiocheBouclierDePierre.jpg

mrseev
08-02-2012, 03:10 PM
yep, but u need a lot of cards and mana generators :) asha, shantiri, reinforcements and maybe seria legion.

we definitely need some more cards to invent some new crazy combos :>

nordentipwel
08-02-2012, 06:03 PM
im much higher than lvl 5-10. Iv got all cards. Lilim hp is definitely too high. Now happy?
OK you win :rolleyes:

Ch3rryAC
08-02-2012, 06:20 PM
To nordentipwel and mtkyebra AKA "pros":

If you find other imbalanced tacticts at higher level it DOESN'T mean the game is balanced.

This is opinion thread, if someone says that the game is imbalanced its his opinion, no need to call him noob. I know You two are so PRO, that your ELO of over 9000 was reset so other players don't feel poorly.

Yeah there are stronger cards than Lilim, but the game should be balanced at low levels, so if Inferno deck at lvl 5 is way stronger than Necro deck at lvl 5 THERE IS something wrong with balance.

The last major change with Enrage ability from 5 days ago shows that balance is still work-in-progres, so all opinions matter.

And by the way, we know all the card, because database at duelofchampions.pl contains more cards than yours French http://momcards.no-ip.org

Last but not the least: if the game is balanced at higher levels how come players like MagicCJN and BlyBly could get win-streaks over 40?

You normally DON'T WIN so much games in a row in a balanced game.

mrseev
08-02-2012, 06:54 PM
But for me, the most OP card atm is Mana Storm.

Make Mana Storm Unique.
Iv got 0 (zero) advantage from events in spelldeck.

I lost nearly 70% of matches just cause of this event.

Blacklichi
08-02-2012, 11:09 PM
I think that enrage units are even more unbalanced, than before patch. They are total useles now. Have them +2 HP or +1 damage and ret. Then you make them again usefull but not too powerfull.

mrseev
08-02-2012, 11:16 PM
Aye. Wyvern, Smasher and Crusher need a small buff.

Elder_TdM
08-06-2012, 06:22 PM
To nordentipwel and mtkyebra AKA "pros":

If you find other imbalanced tacticts at higher level it DOESN'T mean the game is balanced.

This is opinion thread, if someone says that the game is imbalanced its his opinion, no need to call him noob. I know You two are so PRO, that your ELO of over 9000 was reset so other players don't feel poorly.

Yeah there are stronger cards than Lilim, but the game should be balanced at low levels, so if Inferno deck at lvl 5 is way stronger than Necro deck at lvl 5 THERE IS something wrong with balance.

The last major change with Enrage ability from 5 days ago shows that balance is still work-in-progres, so all opinions matter.

And by the way, we know all the card, because database at duelofchampions.pl contains more cards than yours French http://momcards.no-ip.org

Last but not the least: if the game is balanced at higher levels how come players like MagicCJN and BlyBly could get win-streaks over 40?

You normally DON'T WIN so much games in a row in a balanced game.

I've not said I'm a pro (I used to lose 3/5 of my games), in fact, I stopped playing in 116, just done 4 games with the latest patch. And one with a bastion deck without enrage, and one full of enrage (didn't know the new rule) but won with both LOL (just lucky). Lilim is the only creature with more than 4 life until level 6. So it's not so frequent. Have you seen the video-interview? Necro is designed to play more turns, so the problem is not the faction, but the player trying a wrong -not best- strategy with the deck.

There are 220 cards, so no matter the site, both probably have all of them, and the important is thinking how to do the best (or your favourite) combos with the cards you have, not the ones that exist. Those lists only help you knowing what you can expect the enemy may play basing on the cards he has used and your previous games with him and similar decks.

If you think a deck is 1 card, you have a problem, if you don't know how to kill a creature with 8 HP you have a problem, and if you think lilim is the most imporatnt creature to kill on an inferno deck, you have another problem.