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View Full Version : A definitive answer as to why there is no female characters in the game .



Ranger3bn
06-24-2012, 02:03 PM
I have ran into a few post asking, requesting to have female characters available in the game. I have even taken the time to answer a few of the post with comprehensive and detailed explanations as to why the US DoD do not allow women to operate in " front line" duty capcity ie infantry fighting units let alone SF units. I tried to be unbiased and kept my response as unchauvinistic as possible.

The response I got was something to the effect of " this is a video game" therefore what happens in the real world should not apply. However, my belief was that this series was striving for a realistic depiction of special forces units. The latest release of the motion capture development whereas "real US Navy Seal were used gives some validity to that belief.

Now, today I come across another request for the implement of female character in Ghost Recon Future Soldier. As I said before this request is nothing new to me and I believe my response to the other request was complete and sound. In my response I only spoke upon what I knew and experienced during my 10yrs in the US military. I also left the option that maybe one day the infantry and SF MOS might be an option for females provided that the selection process is not compromise in ANY fashion. My own views were for the most part left absence from my response and I did this purposely. I did not want the conversation to take on the appearance of a personal attack for both parties, therefore I tried to refrain from including my personal take on the subject matter.

So, today I come across yet another request however, a bit more different than before. The request was made by using "real" world examples of women operating in or with SF units. What was lacking or purposely omitted was the role that these women were going to be assigned to while in Afghanistan. The writer wanted to give the impression that these women soldiers where going to be operating in the same capacity as there male counterparts. This could not be further than the truth. In fact the compacity of which these women will be working in are the same as most Psych Op units in the Army which women soldiers are already assigned to.

My plight with the author is on one hand the statement was made to omit any real world examples and on the other hand chose to include references of real world examples. Examples that no way give any indication that the US military is considering women for direct combat roles. Going to a village in Afghanistan to speak with the the women is NO where near actively tracking and engaging taliban or al qaeda units. They are there to perform the duties the psychological operations unit are already tasked to do. Those of us who have served in country know the risks that these women are taking and that is very commendable however, we also know about the bounty that was/is placed upon female soldiers by the terrorist. The US has a hard time dealing with seeing our soldiers killed in action from front line duty. I am not too sure we areprepared to see mothers, sisters, and daughters on a arab tv station being held captive.

While I have no problem with having female in video game nor do I see a problem with female in the military in general. My take has and always will be our men and woken in the US military are some of the worlds best trained and proficient force there is. FACT. However, the idea of having women compete SF selection process be it SEAL, Rangers, Air Force PJ's, Army ODA and ODD teams is not going to happen at this place in time. America is not willing to deal with the repercussions that would manifest itself and that is assuming we have women that could make it through selection in training.

Liquidushime
06-24-2012, 02:53 PM
I have ran into a few post asking, requesting to have female characters available in the game. I have even taken the time to answer a few of the post with comprehensive and detailed explanations as to why the US DoD do not allow women to operate in " front line" duty capcity ie infantry fighting units let alone SF units. I tried to be unbiased and kept my response as unchauvinistic as possible.

The response I got was something to the effect of " this is a video game" therefore what happens in the real world should not apply. However, my belief was that this series was striving for a realistic depiction of special forces units. The latest release of the motion capture development whereas "real US Navy Seal were used gives some validity to that belief.

Now, today I come across another request for the implement of female character in Ghost Recon Future Soldier. As I said before this request is nothing new to me and I believe my response to the other request was complete and sound. In my response I only spoke upon what I knew and experienced during my 10yrs in the US military. I also left the option that maybe one day the infantry and SF MOS might be an option for females provided that the selection process is not compromise in ANY fashion. My own views were for the most part left absence from my response and I did this purposely. I did not want the conversation to take on the appearance of a personal attack for both parties, therefore I tried to refrain from including my personal take on the subject matter.

So, today I come across yet another request however, a bit more different than before. The request was made by using "real" world examples of women operating in or with SF units. What was lacking or purposely omitted was the role that these women were going to be assigned to while in Afghanistan. The writer wanted to give the impression that these women soldiers where going to be operating in the same capacity as there male counterparts. This could not be further than the truth. In fact the compacity of which these women will be working in are the same as most Psych Op units in the Army which women soldiers are already assigned to.

My plight with the author is on one hand the statement was made to omit any real world examples and on the other hand chose to include references of real world examples. Examples that no way give any indication that the US military is considering women for direct combat roles. Going to a village in Afghanistan to speak with the the women is NO where near actively tracking and engaging taliban or al qaeda units. They are there to perform the duties the psychological operations unit are already tasked to do. Those of us who have served in country know the risks that these women are taking and that is very commendable however, we also know about the bounty that was/is placed upon female soldiers by the terrorist. The US has a hard time dealing with seeing our soldiers killed in action from front line duty. I am not too sure we areprepared to see mothers, sisters, and daughters on a arab tv station being held captive.

While I have no problem with having female in video game nor do I see a problem with female in the military in general. My take has and always will be our men and woken in the US military are some of the worlds best trained and proficient force there is. FACT. However, the idea of having women compete SF selection process be it SEAL, Rangers, Air Force PJ's, Army ODA and ODD teams is not going to happen at this place in time. America is not willing to deal with the repercussions that would manifest itself and that is assuming we have women that could make it through selection in training.

You had to know that I would reply in here to you...;D Alright, so woman are not active in combat setting, I can understand that, and I have read your entire post. I can understand that seeing a woman in place of a man as a captured 'prisoner' would be a wholly different experience than seeing a man beaten and held for ransom. GRFS is thriving for realism, in a realistic world a woman can't fight, that's understandable and you've given several situation and examples of were a female soldier wouldn't be effective.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/22/world/asia/22afghanistan.html?pagewanted=all

http://www.allgov.com/US_and_the_World/ViewNews/139_Female_Soldiers_Have_Died_in_Iraq_and_Afghanis tan_120412

Here is a link to an article that talks about female soldiers dying in combat, not as specified combatants, but as soldiers doing their job to support their squad anyway they can. My deal is: Soldiers don't have a real gender (Kinda taken from the link) I believe that if a soldier can die doing their job, then they deserve to be represented in video games in the same situation. War is war, and I feel like not including a female character in multiplayer is a step back from all the women training there as off to join combat unit and break the notion that war is fought solely by men. So far they may not be there, but they can die like they are there.

Now representing reality isn't my goal really because reality sucks eggs. I want to see female soldiers in my shooters, because bullets don't decriminate against genders or whether a soldier is in a combat role. Let's just skip the word "Female Soldier" I'll now only use "Soldier" A soldier's humvee gets hit by a RPG and everyone inside gets gunned down by the enemy. Can you tell me which soldier is the female? Not at all, they are all soldiers and they all run the risk of death. (Also, I pay my regards to those above by the way.) I say if you can die for your country, then you can be represented correctly by your countries games. Somewhere a woman has seen combat, with a gun, and bombs, and enemies, I say they belong in the mulitplayer.

Hopefully, I didn't get offense or anything, and I'm proud of our military and our allies because they do what I can't.

many feet
06-24-2012, 03:18 PM
It might just be that the hitboxes, additional voices or sounds, menu sizes, and the additional characters themselves would have to be added which would take up more memory and installing GRFS shows it already uses 7.7GB of memory.
To compare memory sizes:
Skyrim 3.8GB
Mass Effect 3 Disc 1 7.6GB
-Disc 2 7.0GB
Modern Warfare 3 7.6GB
Halo Reach 6.6GB
The memory available for discs seem to be topping off around 7.6 or 7.7GB soo it might of not have fit from a hardware point of view.

IV-70
06-24-2012, 04:14 PM
We can discuss how women are not suited for frontline war, how they lack the physical attributes of male, how they might mess up the team and how gays should not be allow there either.
You might see a difference in between a woman or man held captive, and when looking at the Betancourt incident which even produce a kid, you prolly have a point to not allow this in reality.

I dont see how a playing as a female character changes the experience of this game, or character customizations in genaral. To be honest i never really cared about how my character looked, i still dont even know which char was who in SP and who i played. Yes shooting enemies that possess more uniqueness might be more fun than shooting just the same looking guys.

But we are talking about a video game, which takes a lot of short cuts and makes just as much concessions to be a game in 1st place, not being real world combat. We try to defend sensitive objectives like ammo crates, senors and other computer devices by throwing 'nades at them? We expect the soft targets to get killed by, but not harm the objective at all? A sniper rifles 'kills' enemies by just hitting their toes?

If you really want realism why not bann females from violant games in general? They can not serve at frontline in reality, why should they be allowed video games? Woman/girls should just play cooking games or social interaction based games, so they learn how to serve their ma(sters) later on, working in the kitchen and bedroom for our 'soldiers', right?
We need more separation. What next? Colered can use the same restrooms as white? I'm tired of having to listen to female voices in MP.

Useing realism as an excuse here is BS. If they are just lazy to implement females, cool. It doesnt make that much of a difference anyway, it's prolly better to use those ressources on more needed bugs but for realism sake? Com'on MAN.

ps my GRFS has 11 GB in use.

Tyrone1985
06-24-2012, 05:43 PM
Stopped reading after realistic

JESTER760
06-25-2012, 08:08 AM
The memory available for discs seem to be topping off around 7.6 or 7.7GB soo it might of not have fit from a hardware point of view?
7.6 7.7?
25*GB (single-layer)
50*GB (dual-layer)

foxlight713
06-29-2012, 08:37 AM
...original post...

Read the whole post, but I'm gonna have to say it's not because "it's a video game." And more about the face that not including female Ghosts at all goes against the established Cannon of the Ghost Recon Universe.

If I recall I remember seeing female ghosts as early as Ghost Recon - Island Thunder (I remember specifically when playing split screen you could have a full team of female ghosts in every roll), and the most prominent or at least very obvious is Ghost Recon 2 with the Female sniper squad mate. Then in either GRAW or GRAW2 you could play as a female character in multi-player and I believe both had female squad mates in single player. Even the books of those centered on the characters of Ghost Recon 2 had Female Ghosts in them.

GR Island thunder (released Aug. 2003)
GR Jungle Storm
Ghost recon 2
GR2 Summit Strike
GR advanced warfighter
GR advanced warfighter 2 (relesed 2007)

Each of these games had female Ghost represented in the game one way or another (fighting on the front lines). Weither it had been as a Squad Mate character, or in co-op and multiplayer Female Ghosts have a fairly long history of being in the Ghost Recon Games and Universe. Even the main character of R6 Vegas 2 could be female. In my opinion that is one thing that made Ghost Recon unique about it and stand out from the other shooter in the market.

I can accept the fact that the campigane has a set story and set character, but compleatly ignoring Playable female ghosts even in multiplayer goes against the established Ghost Recon cannon. The devs of GRFS already have female character models in game through civilians and Twisting the black hawk helicopter pilot. The only thing that I would imagine they are missing at most is modeling and textering the combat gear, hit boxes, and the combat animations. So in my opnion it was a bad decision of the devs to not include playable female ghosts at the lest in multiplayer and should be added back into the game either through a multiplayer DLC or in the next game Ghost Recon game.

IIIURBNIII
06-29-2012, 10:38 AM
Let me cut this thread short by saying, I dont want to shoot women dead, I do not want to frag grenade them, why there seems to be a debate about this I dont know

Lets be real here, in Halo you can be female, but your in a suit of armour, also genetically enhanced, and Halos comical style of death is okay, for the women to get smashed

In games like this, MEN are the choice in combat and rightly so, this game has alot of realistic elements compared to Halo, I dont think it would be a good idea AT ALL to have females to choose from

Im just thinking people arguing FOR women soldiers to be implemented are sadistic sad people, so shooting a man isnt enough, they want to kill a woman for the sake of it


If the lack of females in this game bothers you then this isnt the game for you, simple as that, females do not need to be in every popular game, they dont belong in games like this, and wether you agree or not bottom line is MEN are here to do the protecting

IBlest
06-29-2012, 11:00 AM
well all I like to say on this matter is why do people find they need to play as female character. The same as I seen on some forums think it was mass effect 3, saying looking for gay friendly people or something like that. Do you find that need to shout it out on internet that your women,gay or what other thing you want to bring up because I feel that should be kept to your self inless you choice to tell your friends online.

So instead of trying to have silly things added which have no impact on the game. Let them focus on the important things like fixing mic bugs and lag issues and what ever else thats wrong with the game.

NocturnalFox-
06-29-2012, 11:01 AM
****ing hell, this again.
Women ARE active in a combat role.

Israel: Women can serve in ANY Regiment or Corps (national service 3 years for men, 2 for women, though 3 if combat role) provided they pass the selection process.
China and Korea: women have gone as high as special forces from what I have heard.
Britain: Women serve in an indirect combat role (as medics, translators, intelligence and so on) Royal Artillery is another one (nick: gunbunnies).
Australia: Last I checked they had a recruitment crisis and were thinking about opening combat positions to women.
America: Again an indirect combat role, however there have been a few exceptions in American (And native) history where women have served in a direct combat function.
Russia: Well known to use women as troops, not so much now, but it should be noted that one of their best snipers was a woman in WW2- mocked by the USA because (no joke) she was out the kitchen and not making babies at the time.
France: Has also used women, usually for espionage, trying to fact find on combat history.
Germany: Bit of backwards here, their women millenia ago used to train alongside the men- while the men were away the women were expected to defend the homestead.


Back on to my strong point on this subject, British Army.
It should be noted that one woman has completed the all arms course (Commando) however because the Royal Marines did not have many positions open to women all she could do was join the marching band.
And I think two women have completed Pegasus Company (P-Coy).

Personally with the recruitment crisis that a few non national service countries are having I think women Combat soldiers are going to happen soon, especially considering in Britain they do Phase 1 with the men (basic training, same as regular infantry training). But only if the entry requirements are the same (at the moment men have to do the 1.5 in under 11 minutes and women get 13 for selection, also less press ups and pull ups).

IIIURBNIII
06-29-2012, 11:17 AM
Yeah but I for one dont want to see a female in this game, to be playable anyway, it just wouldnt be right, even if there are females in real life combqt, doesnt mean they should be on here

Gagtag1
06-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Yeah but I for one dont want to see a female in this game, to be playable anyway, it just wouldnt be right, even if there are females in real life combqt, doesnt mean they should be on here

lol.... god this place is rich. Ok mate.. You keep your dolls safe. As for the capable individuals who are willing to protect their country and freedoms? I hope that people like you don't get in their way with your sexist behavior. By all accounts, women should stay within our boarders, look nice, get nice jobs, make babies, and teach along with some other restricted positions.

****ing idiots... you guys are so backwards to freedom and individuality it's unreal. No ones saying all women or even the vast majority of women, we're talking about capable people. ... It's just not right... **** me. You live inside your countries little world don't you. Go to a third world country, or any revolution and open your eyes to what people do. .. But no.. accept your born in position... Right. I'm not humoring you with whatever you respond with to put me in "my place".
Your views dumb women down and make them that social term that is "women" only.

NocturnalFox-
06-29-2012, 11:28 AM
Yeah but I for one dont want to see a female in this game, to be playable anyway, it just wouldnt be right, even if there are females in real life combqt, doesnt mean they should be on here

Well you are entitled to your opinion.But what I am saying, as time marches forward women will definitely start to get to these "man only" positions. And as they do if games want to maintain realism you will see female characters more and more.

It has got nothing to do with female gamers- quite frankly I don't think they should put in women just for the sake of women- HOWEVER, if women are doing the same job as the men then it is fair to want equal representation.
For example had they made a medical class I would certainly understand women saying "where the **** is the gender option"


But then this is an American shooter (The market is saturated in these) not a British or European one- and to be honest with Americas conservative nature I think it will be a long while before they have women combat soldiers and even longer till we have this debate.

To be honest I am surprised that more people have not said "hold up, I want a black/brown/yellow skin tone"

IIIURBNIII
06-29-2012, 12:10 PM
Yeah I do agree with the skin tone thing, that is a bit wrong

IIIURBNIII
06-29-2012, 12:27 PM
An also I wasnt talking about female gamers, think of what would happen if females were included...i see many stuns and teabaggin, because the gaming community is full of divs

The_SIX_GOD
06-29-2012, 12:34 PM
Why is this still being argued? There are female charecters as main leads in most games now, this is 2012. The only real reason I will accept is that the motion cap for charecters was done by Marines that being said retired female Marines were probably hard to come by. <-not a fact I am just asumming. What I do not understand Devs will use women as sex symbols in games quick and in a hurry but when it comes to something like this it's always debated.

Xx__O-dog__xX
06-29-2012, 01:04 PM
It might just be that the hitboxes, additional voices or sounds, menu sizes, and the additional characters themselves would have to be added which would take up more memory and installing GRFS shows it already uses 7.7GB of memory.
To compare memory sizes:
Skyrim 3.8GB
Mass Effect 3 Disc 1 7.6GB
-Disc 2 7.0GB
Modern Warfare 3 7.6GB
Halo Reach 6.6GB
The memory available for discs seem to be topping off around 7.6 or 7.7GB soo it might of not have fit from a hardware point of view.

Maybe not xbox, but ps3 uses the blurays, so that is over 50gb of storage to play with.

Lunytunes
06-29-2012, 01:06 PM
Cause nerds fap to video game chicks? Why do you think people bought DOA beach volley ball? Even rumble roses has a mode where you can just take pictures of the chicks.

xx CRIM B xx
06-29-2012, 02:44 PM
there aren't any women for the same reason that the only people you play as in mp are white males, the devs took the cheap way out. would it really have been that difficult to add darker skin tones for ethnic players and to lose sum body mass and add lumps to the female players? they know they took the cheap way out with this game, every other tc game i played on the 360 had options like this (hell is rainbow 6 you could put your face in the game). and the real messed up part is that when I scroll thru the mask options i sit and watch the face go from dark to light (as is it was an option for darker skin), but it got scrapped. redstorm/ubisoft ya'll messed up royally with this title, hell maybe i shoulda brught max payne 3 instead...

IV-70
06-29-2012, 03:45 PM
An also I wasnt talking about female gamers, think of what would happen if females were included...i see many stuns and teabaggin, because the gaming community is full of divs

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I never like paternalism. Freedom all the way.

We even play against female players, vitually you are already killing 'em.
Do you think we should keep girls away from such violent games too, so they do not get harmed, even if its just virtuall?

Liquidushime
06-29-2012, 05:21 PM
Let me cut this thread short by saying, I dont want to shoot women dead, I do not want to frag grenade them, why there seems to be a debate about this I dont know

Lets be real here, in Halo you can be female, but your in a suit of armour, also genetically enhanced, and Halos comical style of death is okay, for the women to get smashed

In games like this, MEN are the choice in combat and rightly so, this game has alot of realistic elements compared to Halo, I dont think it would be a good idea AT ALL to have females to choose from

Im just thinking people arguing FOR women soldiers to be implemented are sadistic sad people, so shooting a man isnt enough, they want to kill a woman for the sake of it


If the lack of females in this game bothers you then this isnt the game for you, simple as that, females do not need to be in every popular game, they dont belong in games like this, and wether you agree or not bottom line is MEN are here to do the protecting

Sexism at it's best; now I'm not trying to flame, but I don't think of women the same way you do. I see them as humans, not housewives. Humans die, women are human. I believe women that wish to risk there life to fight where you don't should be represented on the battlefield. I don't care about female characters being killed or eating frag grenades or getting super elbowed. If you want to put it that way, how about I don't want to see male characters getting hurt? I don't want to see them getting shot, stabbed or killed....yeah, that's about as crazy as it all sounds. I used a female character in MGO and I attempted to PWN with the ol' gal. I got knifed, CQC, shot...Max Payne 3, I play men and women that get shot in slow motion, slapped, punched, kicked.

Mass Effect 3, my shepard is a female and she got spaced. Do I need to really go on? I don't care about the violence either, it's what makes up our culture really. Oh, and I don't think I'm sadistic for wanting a female character to play as; it's not about the killing and death to females. If you think that why have humans in GRFS? Am I sadistic for wanting to shoot at a male? Not likely, I think it's kind of a step backwards in terms of equality that has been in the Ghost Recon series for a while now.


well all I like to say on this matter is why do people find they need to play as female character. The same as I seen on some forums think it was mass effect 3, saying looking for gay friendly people or something like that. Do you find that need to shout it out on internet that your women,gay or what other thing you want to bring up because I feel that should be kept to your self inless you choice to tell your friends online.

So instead of trying to have silly things added which have no impact on the game. Let them focus on the important things like fixing mic bugs and lag issues and what ever else thats wrong with the game.

This is important, at least important enough to discussion and have added to the game. All the bugs, glitches and problems in the world won't save RS and Ubi from my slightly feminist views. Now, I'm not saying "Add women so I can harass girls and talk about things that have nothing to do with the game." I want the choice to use a female character that won't be any different from the males character. As far as I'm concerned the only difference between men and women soldiers are the pitch of their voices, oh wait...that doesn't matter either because they are soldiers.


Yeah but I for one dont want to see a female in this game, to be playable anyway, it just wouldnt be right, even if there are females in real life combqt, doesnt mean they should be on here

I think female characters would:

-Give us more choices to customize with

-Allow people to play a character that is the gender THEY want the character to be.

I don't think I need anymore than that because the rest doesn't matter all that much.


Cause nerds fap to video game chicks? Why do you think people bought DOA beach volley ball? Even rumble roses has a mode where you can just take pictures of the chicks.

I don't fap to female characters, and I bought both of those games. While people are fapping, I'll be put bullets in their cereal.


An also I wasnt talking about female gamers, think of what would happen if females were included...i see many stuns and teabaggin, because the gaming community is full of divs

I've been tea bagged before in GRFS and I've have full teams tea bagging my team, sadly that few seconds they spent tea bagging, myself and a pal o' mine flanked behind they with M60s and wiped out their entire teams. The ending score: 720 to 10 because they spent time doing something rather old, played out and childish, I got my Engineer to level 40. I don't mind tea bagging at all if it means that they'll stay away from our man carrying the bomb xB

NocturnalFox-
06-29-2012, 07:12 PM
An also I wasnt talking about female gamers, think of what would happen if females were included...i see many stuns and teabaggin, because the gaming community is full of divs

Are you saying this doesn't happen all ready?