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SpremeCommander
01-15-2004, 02:46 PM
Since the patch it seems that planes absolutely HATE to bleed off any speed on the approach. Even if my gear is down, flaps are down, prop pitch is down, throttle is down, approach speed is down, and my glide slope is shallow, my plane will rapidly accelerate as I decrease altitude.

Also, I find myself having to perform S-turns or circles to slow down in the first place; staight-in approaches seem to be very difficult.

Any suggestions?

SpremeCommander
01-15-2004, 02:46 PM
Since the patch it seems that planes absolutely HATE to bleed off any speed on the approach. Even if my gear is down, flaps are down, prop pitch is down, throttle is down, approach speed is down, and my glide slope is shallow, my plane will rapidly accelerate as I decrease altitude.

Also, I find myself having to perform S-turns or circles to slow down in the first place; staight-in approaches seem to be very difficult.

Any suggestions?

DONB3397
01-15-2004, 03:59 PM
A standard procedure for returning US fighter planes during WWII was to make a low pass along or parallel to the runway (upwind) and breaking steeply up in a modified immelman, finishing on the base leg of the landing pattern(parallel to the runway in the opposite direction). This bleeds off speed and helps get the flight into spaced, line astern for landing. I use this maneuver regularly with 109G's and K's, and P-51s. The other a/c I fly don't seem to require this since they seem less "slippery."

Unless flying a damaged a/c, I generally fly the landing pattern, even if there's no traffic. It helps.

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SpremeCommander
01-15-2004, 09:31 PM
Landing direction heavily depends on wind direction. If you are approaching the field and heading into the wind, you do a straight-in approach (as long as traffic will allow this). If there is no wind a straight-in approach is also common. Real planes do "procedure-turn" landings like you describe, but not because they are unable to bleed off airspeed. In FB some type of turn is mandatory to bleed off airspeed. It seems to me that the FB flight model isn't as accurate as it could be in this regard...

TX-EcoDragon
01-16-2004, 10:28 AM
While I agreed that there isn't quite enough drag brought about by going to the landing configuration, once you get teh aircraft to pattern speeds it usually has pretty good bleed. (by pattern speeds I mean less than 250 kmh).

I usually fly every approach in a deep forward slip, and often I will perform a break (in the p-39) or simply a spin or snap roll (in most other aircraft). While this may not be perfectly realistic, it is still fun!

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michapma
01-16-2004, 10:35 AM
SpremeCommander, I think EcoDragon has the idea here. I also find that the planes bleed energy too slowly, especially at high speeds. However, I have no problem getting on approach and find that at the proper approach speed I require a fair amount of power to hold the approach.

Two questions:

1. At what speed are you entering the approach? (Are we talking about dogfight server landings here?)

2. How steep is your descent? This is related to the height at which you begin the approach.

I begin my approaches visually, but I make a point of not starting my approach until I am within 600m of the strip altitude, and below gear-dropping speed (about 300kph). If at idle or low power you drop gear and fully extend flaps you should find no problems keeping a good approach speed--more or less 180kph is decent for most craft (too slow for some, far too much for others).

Cheers,
Mike

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Redtail1
01-16-2004, 01:09 PM
While we're on the topic, is there a windsock on the fields, or do I just have to remember the active rwy when I take off?

Cheers

Redtail

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FlyingFerris
01-16-2004, 01:41 PM
Rember angle of arival detirmines rate of survival.

SpremeCommander
01-16-2004, 02:07 PM
1. At what speed are you entering the approach? (Are we talking about dogfight server landings here?)

Often times I will be under 250kph on final approach. The planes seem to want to accelerate to over 300kph.

2. How steep is your descent? This is related to the height at which you begin the approach.

Although of course there are no glide slope indicators, I try to keep the GS at about 3 degrees, although often I find myself going below this angle, hoping that a shallower approach will cause less acceleration.


So, at full flaps, no power, minimal prop pitch, and standard glide slope, the plane STILL wants to accelerate. Am I missing something? Maybe I will have to keep turning to bleed off airspeed...

Mike_Green
01-16-2004, 02:26 PM
250 KPH sounds fast to me. I normally end up aabout 200KPH on final approach.

Previously known round these parts as mikeyg007

Luftwaffe13
01-16-2004, 02:44 PM
I have been testing out a new landing approach in which i bring in my plane at around 300km/h and hold her down at 200 feet. Initially i passthe runway and then make a short loop back around to land comming in from the opposite side. In the process, i cut my engine so i can shed off speed while i turn, which is very effective. It makes for a nice, smooth approach and (usually) a routine touchdown. I'm not sure if this "Commercial airline" landing maneuver would work for everyone, but it does for me.

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bastage2003
01-16-2004, 03:31 PM
I stopped playing IL2 and played FS2004 for a few months and went through the entire training courses up to instrument rating. Now my landings are a perfect 10 every time and for some reason I seem to shoot down alot of planes now online.

DONB3397
01-16-2004, 06:47 PM
Been reading the posts and it's possible that we're overlooking some variables. For instance, 250 kph touch down speed may be okay, even necessary for some a/c; too fast for others. Some planes (109 G's and K's and Doras) have to be flown right down to the ground because they fall out of the sky at low speeds. Hurricanes, P-40's, 190A's and La's have more latitude...in landing speed and angle of attack. P-47's fly and land heavy, but the gear is sturdy and widely spaced. And so forth.

Is there a formula? I don't think so. Every joy stick (and set up) is a little different. The flight models work differently on different rigs. So the answer for most of us is practice. Just shoot landings for a session or two. Don't over-control. Make short cross-country trips and land at different strips. Go to the snow maps and land on computer-generated packed snow and ice. And have fun! If you snap off the undercarriage or bend or flip the plane, no one is going to ground you.

Skullin
01-16-2004, 08:17 PM
what kills me is when i am absolutely sure that i'm going to nail the landing, i bounce a couple times, and then *boom*! it's hard to practice when you don't really see what you're doing wrong. ie... speed= 150, alt. falling just slightly, and my gear is actually down!... lOL

horseback
01-16-2004, 09:00 PM
I've found that the big problem for me is getting down to about 500m without a big speed buildup. The AI would just throttle back and gently (and rapidly) float down while I shot ahead, picking up bags of speed while hardly losing any altitude at all.

Then I remembered the trick from my Red Baron days: sideslipping. Throttle back, hard rudder in one direction, stick in the other, keep the nose relatively high, and bingo! you're losing altitude without the embarrassment of making like Rocketman. Once you get the hang of it, it's relatively easy (heck, I can do it, and I'm a klutz).

Cheers

horseback

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LEXX_Luthor
01-16-2004, 09:10 PM
Turn engine off and this can cut your glide distance in half (don't do this on some aircraft like I153 and I16 cos they can't start engines in flight unless they are moving more than ~200km/hr).

Also, try turning off magnetos, although this does not seem to help as much as turning off engine, weird.

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TaZ_Attack
01-16-2004, 09:17 PM
Well, I generally like a full-flare three-point landing, but since I'm usually lucky to make it back alive, I'll settle for landing at 250KPH without the bullets flying around my plane. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

dieadler
01-16-2004, 10:10 PM
How do you tell the wind direction?jeromestout@hotmail.com

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DONB3397:
A standard procedure for returning US fighter planes during WWII was to make a low pass along or parallel to the runway (upwind) and breaking steeply up in a modified immelman, finishing on the base leg of the landing pattern(parallel to the runway in the opposite direction). This bleeds off speed and helps get the flight into spaced, line astern for landing. I use this maneuver regularly with 109G's and K's, and P-51s. The other a/c I fly don't seem to require this since they seem less "slippery."

Unless flying a damaged a/c, I generally fly the landing pattern, even if there's no traffic. It helps.

Winning isn't everything;
It's the only thing!
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/bc/3fe77b7e_1812a/bc/Images/Sig---1.jpg?BCeTtBABXdJdLZQo <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

SpremeCommander
01-17-2004, 03:00 PM
You looks at the windsock at the airfield. Or, if you playing a game like FB, you don't. You just land.